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taylor4543

Need help with cedar wrap on support beams

taylor4543
9 years ago
My contractor talked me out of solid cedar and recommended a cedar wrap around a 4 x 4 support column instead. The cedar is mitered on the corners and is already shrinking leaving gaps or splintering. We are to meet tomorrow to discuss alternative options. I like the rustic look but I don't want to deal with gaps and splintering of the wrap. Sheetrocking over it is not an option to me. Any suggestions?

Comments (30)

  • taylor4543
    Original Author
    9 years ago
    Here is a close up picture
  • lindastein
    9 years ago
    Sorry, no suggestions, but I really like your paint color with the wood. Do you mind me asking what it is?
  • taylor4543
    Original Author
    9 years ago
    Thank you! It's called Whitall Brown from Benjamin Moore. It's a very taupey brown. Depending on the lighting it will look brown or it will look dark brownish gray but goes very well with my counters and backsplash and contrasts well with my oak cabinets.
  • David Douglas
    9 years ago
    The cedar wrap would have worked if the workmanship had been up to par. Cedar does not generally shrink . It would not have been that much more expensive to do it in solid stock by the time you factor in the extra labor.
  • taylor4543
    Original Author
    9 years ago
    I agree! But if we change the support columns now to solid stock, I'm not sure what to do about the header since it's larger than the columns.
  • David Douglas
    9 years ago
    What is the purpose of these columns and header?
    Are they for support or just aesthetic ?
  • PRO
    Lewis Design-Build-Remodel
    9 years ago
    An Unexpected Gift - In Scotts Valley · More Info
    Consider just replacing the post and beams with some solid wood that can be stained
  • taylor4543
    Original Author
    9 years ago
    Yes they are needed for structural support. I really like the solid wood with stain look! Any idea what that wood and stain color might be? Thanks!
  • PRO
    Lewis Design-Build-Remodel
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago
    It's actually Doug fir stained with a cherry varnish
  • PRO
    Scott Design, Inc.
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago
    Some species of wood are naturally stronger than others. Typical Doug fir framing material has almost twice the compressive strength, stiffness and hardness as white cedar and 50% more than western red cedar. If the beams and columns are load bearing, then cedar will not do the job. Your beams may be engineered wood and the columns fir. Wrapping the structural lumber is the better approach for support and continuity.

    Often times, butt corners are used rather than mitered corners to wrap beams and columns. The leading edges of two boards sit slightly behind the opposing boards to provide a small reveal that allows movement in the wood masking joint shrinkage.

    Consider increasing the humidity in the room. You may find these corners will close up. Or use a dark stain to help blend the shadow lines of the joints. Or, put an outside corner molding on all 4 edges milled from cedar.
    taylor4543 thanked Scott Design, Inc.
  • User
    9 years ago
    Boy, it's gorgeous. I would love to see more photos of the kitchen! And I LOVE the look of the header and beams within the larger space. Oh, sorry. We have a support post on our porch we need to wrap so I just was looking for ideas.

    The wood has so many lines and shadows I think the teensy gap just appears one of many shadows, I really had to work to see it. But if you want it fixed, I hope your contractor can do so.
  • PRO
    Sustainable Dwellings
    9 years ago
    like it'
  • taylor4543
    Original Author
    9 years ago
    Jared Lewis Construction, did you use actual wood posts or wrap? Your work is beautiful! Scott Design, thank you for the explanation and ideas. I would like to stain it darker to help disguise seams. My floor is oak stained in Rosewood and I'm not sure what the contractor used on the trim stain. I was thinking to try to match the darkest brown in the floor grain, but not sure what color of stain that would be, or even what colors to start with for a blend. Will definitely add the corner molding to the list of options to discuss this morning!
  • rocketjcat
    9 years ago
    If you had your heart set on a beam that looks solid, I understand that you might not be happy with the small seams or gaps, which hint that its been pieced. Wood is going to shrink and expand and I think that to expect four 7' long mitered edges to forever remain so tightly sealed that it appears solid, is to expect too much of the wood and your carpenter. You could take the advice offered above to redo it with overlapping boards (without mitered corners) which would be more obviously not a solid beam but still look good, or bite the bullet and use solid Douglas fir, which you could stain or tung oil to match your other wood. This is DF with tung oil. Only you can determine how much movement in the wood is acceptable to you. Even a solid post may twist and check a little over time as it dries out. Some people are OK with that (my husband) some people it freaks out. (Me) let us know what you decide to do after taking with the carpenter, I just offer this hoping your expectations are reasonable. Good luck!
  • taylor4543
    Original Author
    9 years ago
    Additional kitchen pictures. The kitchen had been a typical "U" shaped kitchen sharing a wall with the dining room. No one used the dining room because they wanted to be in the kitchen with everyone else. We decided to take down the wall that was shared, and move the cabinets, add some matching cabinets, add the island, new backsplash, counters, lighting, new floor finish and new stair bannister. Overall, I love it, just wish the wrap had turned out better to compliment all the rest...guess we will see what my contractor thinks..
  • User
    9 years ago
    Thanks for posting these. It is such a warm and inviting space!
  • PRO
    Scott Design, Inc.
    9 years ago
    Another option ...there are colored wax pencils that are used for stained wood repair. Depending on the size of the joint, this material can help to mask the open joint and it is flexible enough to not form its own cracks. Once it is in the joint use a terry cloth rag and rub enough to generate some warmth to soften it so it will get into the joint and not look obvious. You can then maintain the existing lighter stain of the columns. Please note that once you use this approach you cannot go back and apply stain. The wax will not allow it to penetrate the wood and will look blotchy. If you have a baseboard going around the bottom of the column, you can test it low and if you don't like it, the baseboard will cover it.
  • David Douglas
    9 years ago
    I would leave the header as is and replace posts with round columns
    Painted off white
  • PRO
    GTG Builders
    9 years ago
    Taylor... hard to tell the entire story from the pictures but it looks pretty good to me. As has been mentioned, wood isn't perfect. In my experience, solid beams have their own problems (straight and check). I fear trying to "hide" those seams will cause them to stand out. You may be looking too hard......try living with it before doing anything.
  • taylor4543
    Original Author
    9 years ago
    Contractor update: he is not happy with final product either. Says his crew didn't quite follow his instructions on how to do the corner miter. He is now suggesting we replace with oak which is more stable. I have concerns that I have too much oak all in one area which is why I had wanted something different to begin with. His said an option to consider would be darker stain and distress the oak to give it a different look and feel. My bar stools are not oak but the wood is a darker chestnut color with some aging look to them. So this might be a viable option however he is asking that I pay for materials ($1,400) plus $800 to distress and stain. He supplies the labor to take off the wrap and reinstall it. He still feels solid columns would be too heavy and a wrap is the best solution. I'm trying to be reasonable, but I'm not sure why I am paying for all the materials when I already paid for materials. What is considered fair in a situation like this? Thank you everyone.
  • PRO
    PPF.
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago
    I see no other rough wood in your home, so I would remove the cedar and make it smooth. Reassemble on the ground using glue. When dry, install on beams and columns. Do a light touch up sanding making sure all corners are rounded over. Apply oil, let dry. Apply a flat or matte clear. Finishing could also be done on the ground, with touch ups once installed.

    A bit of trim where the column meets the beams will disguise any misalignment.

    I would treat this as cabinet grade work and not rough framing.

    I would suggest to your contractor that he pay as the design was his idea.

    You could also use steel, painted black to cover the corners. Steel angle 1.5"x1.5"x.125" could be applied to each corner as a decorative element. It would tie in with the steel on the stairs.
  • taylor4543
    Original Author
    9 years ago
    Good suggestion. I've emailed the contractor for consideration. The contractor is a very nice guy and I feel bad, but I also feel like I'm being taken for granted a bit. If my idea was bad to begin with (cedar), then I wish he would have made different suggestions at that time and explained why we should look at other options. Otherwise, I was left to believe everything would be fine until it really isn't and I feel guilty for not being happy with it. The two worst pieces are on the column by itself, so I'm hoping they can be replaced as suggested. Then we can apply a darker stain to everything that may help camouflage the rest of it. To make matters worse, his sub-contractor/electrician scratched up the newly refinished floors as he dragged his ladder around the island installing the pendants. Floor contractor is coming back tomorrow to re-do, so we have to stay off the main floor again for several days. I'm not having to pay for it, other than the inconvenience. I think we are all ready for this project to be done :).
  • taylor4543
    Original Author
    9 years ago
    Ppf: make it smooth with what type of wood? Like the steel corner idea a lot.
  • spymatch
    9 years ago
    The steel is a great idea. Could recess the angles at each corner as well. Would eliminate any splinters which will be possible with miters. Might even find some wrought iron angles that really look like they were made for it.
    taylor4543 thanked spymatch
  • PRO
    PPF.
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago
    Using the steel angle serves two purposes, one to hide the miters, and second to give a bit of an industrial look. As is, it looks like wrapped framing members.

    I would keep the cedar. Prep it by plaining and sanding, finish with an uncolored oil which will give it a rich look and bring out the colors. Topcoat with a clear flat or matte. You don't want it to look shiny.

    You could do this in combination with the metal.

    It would be a similar look to the picture posted above by Jared Lewis Construction.

    I'd add a piece of trim between the column and beam as shown in the image. This connection as is does not look right.

    I would not recess the angles if you decide to use them. Visually they need to look applied as if they are holding things together.

    Rough cedar just looks out of place in your interior.
  • km kane
    9 years ago
    Sorry, but it just looks unfinished to me. Like a wall was removed and the framing just left there. I agree with .ppf, the rough cedar just looks put of place, plus on top of the design....

    I think I would have gone for a longer beam (across to the stair wall) and no post. Or a more decorative post. But that said, try for some decorative elements where the posts meet the beam, perhaps mimic a craftsman-like molding trim, or the wrought-iron /metal idea.

    And I agree that's a lot to ask of wood - mitered corners like that sticking together...... A solid Doug fir beam would have been better.

    Sorry to sound negative. Do want you to get this right. Sometimes we just have to start again. heavens knows I've messed up myself to the tune of several bucks, darn it.
  • User
    9 years ago
    Get rid of it all and pay the additional needed to do a steel beam in the ceiling to be able to eliminate that post completely. It is a compete departure designwise from the rest of the home and is a big misstep designwise.
  • taylor4543
    Original Author
    6 years ago
    Took off the rough cedar and wrapped with oak to match the rest of the kitchen. Project complete.
  • PRO
    PPF.
    6 years ago

    Looks perfect -- thanks for the update.