How did you set the drain against the wall?
Renaissance Kitchen and Home
August 26, 2012 in Photo Questions
When you say to pack out the wall after the drain is set, do you mean to pack the wall out after you put in the liner. How do you pack out te wall on top of the liner? Can you show me a diagram?

Torry Manzo
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John Whipple - By Any Design ltd.
Torry there are many ways to install this linear drain. The most common approach is to set the drain in with the membrane tacked to the wall framing. Then some poly over the studs lapping over the waterproofing shower pan liner material. Then cement board taped at the seams.

Quick Drain has the detail outlined here.
http://www.quickdrainusa.com/installation.php

I have my own techniques that differ somewhat from the guidelines posted above.

I'm working on some more Ideabooks and will cover the installation of each drain later on in the year.

JW
August 26, 2012 at 7:35am   
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Plumbed Elegance
Quick Drain is unique in that the channel IS ALSO THE DRAIN. Most other brands still drain into a standard round shower drain which sets the drain a couple of inches off the wall. Www.quickdrainusa.com
August 26, 2012 at 10:54am   
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John Whipple - By Any Design ltd.
Plumbed Elegance - many of the linear drain out there are also primary drains. ACO, CeraLine and Schluter all make primary linear drains as well as Proline.

Using a smaller clamping drain you can still achieve this look. Most times I use the "Baby Blue" drain by Watts as my primary shower drain and with this installed a hair off of the framing I can set the other 'Non-primary' lineaer drains in this same set up (drain on back wall).

The key is getting and using a smaller clamping drain. This installation is a commercial project so below the plastic (PVC) top collar sits a cast iron drain body.

The white board in this picture is a 5/8" baseboard and represents the thickness of the final tile installed.

JW
August 26, 2012 at 11:08am   
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Plumbed Elegance
My understanding is that ACO and ceraline still fit into a standard shower drain. Your installation certainly addresses this issue. The Quickdrain just fits into a 2" no hub. Am I off on my understanding? I am a retailer, not an installer so your input is very welcome.
August 26, 2012 at 12:34pm   
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John Whipple - By Any Design ltd.
Yes the Quick Drain connects to the home via a 2" no-hub fitting. The Quick Drain is the primary shower drain and does not require a second drain. The ACO drain shown above is what ACO calls a plain edge and requires the use of a primary shower drain (clamping drain).

The linear channel body and strainer no more than a glorified strainer and grill. ACO does make a flanged version that is an approved primary drain. Personally I don't care for that design and prefer using the ACO plain edge with an approved primary clamping drain.

CeraLine's linear drain from California Faucets can be installed as a primary if a liquid membrane like Hydro Ban is used to waterproof the shower and is tied into their textured flange (on their linear drain's perimeter). The installation instructions showed both versions last time I looked online for a client. This step can be skipped if the drain is installed over a primary clamping drain.

Once the waterproofing is installed a flood or leak test needs to be preformed. When the test is over all water should drain away. Check for puddles near the drain and near the wall. These shallow spots can make those areas appear wet long after a shower floor has dried.

A clamping drain needs it's weep holes keep clear of mortar. Using a weep hole protector, candle wick or pea gravel can ensure the drain preforms well.

With a topical membrane system (Kerdi, Proline, Noble Company) it is important to remember that the weeping system is designed so that water travels down along the membrane towards the drain. Do not silicone or chaulk this after the tile & grout installation as this can dam the water trying to exit your shower.
August 26, 2012 at 2:30pm   
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Renaissance Kitchen and Home
Thanks for the explanation of the various drains on the market. I will go back to my manufacturers and have some samples sent to my showroom. You have obviously done your homework here.


Thanks again


Torry. Manzo
Renaissance Kitchen and Hoome
August 26, 2012 at 6:30pm   
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Plumbed Elegance
I REALLY appreciate this thorough explanation. We sell all three and I am frequently asked installation questions. The more I know, the greater my value is. Again, tha k you for taking the time to be so thorough. I will read this again a few more times to make sure I understand completely. By the way, Quick Drain has a traveling trailer and it's going to be visiting our showroom in Santa Cruz, CA in late October when we will offer a Lunch and Learn for our local plumbers and tile setters. Perhaps it may be stopping in your neck of the woods?
August 26, 2012 at 8:37pm   
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John Whipple - By Any Design ltd.
I was at the showroom in Denver where the trailer was getting made. Last I saw it it was just a frame and some plywood. Josef tells me it will be coming to Vancouver - but I'm not sure when.
August 27, 2012 at 5:28am   
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Plumbed Elegance
Neat!
August 27, 2012 at 8:22am   
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espiritiv
Mr. Whipple, Why do you like Quick Drain USA, when compared to Schluter, or Noble linear tile drains and premade and preloped shower pans? What is the price and or ease of installation? Im a homeowner wanting the most straight forward install
October 31, 2013 at 3:55pm   
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John Whipple - By Any Design ltd.
The Proline was my top favourite for a few years. After installing so many of these linear drains I decided ACO was the best of the best - now I only sell these ACO drains. The Proline drain is a good one, so is the Schluter but they have a couple set backs and it's harder to find a skilled enough installer to put them in properly.

The ACO linear drains (plain edge design) works with ANY waterproofing system. This and after a year of service is the nicest t look at and easiest to clean.
November 7, 2013 at 7:27am   
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deeraeya
One of the things that has puzzled me about the install of a "plain edge" linear drain (ie not as a primary drain, but as a glorified strainer) is how to get the primary clamping drain close enough to the wall. I donated to John's site http://no-curb.blogspot.ca/ and had a very useful conversation with him that got me going in the right direction.

I drew this up in the attached pic, showing the different distances. I can't see how it works with a clamping drain larger than 5 1/4 inches.

John, above, mentions the Watts "Baby Blue" clamping drain:
http://media.wattswater.com/ES-WD-WSD-SQ-NB-CAN.pdf

but those are not available in the US. Watt's online documentation doesn't show the width of the top of the clamping drain, but it appears to be something like 4 1/2"? That is a lot smaller than the standard clamping drains which are something like 6 1/2 inches wide (e.g. the Sioux Chief sold at Home Depot). This makes them too large when trying to set the linear drain right against the wall.

This is because you want the outside of the linear drain to rest up against the tile on the wall (or rather to have 1/8 flexible grout joint). The tile build up off the studs is something like 1 1/8 (1/2 board, membrane, 1/4 thinset, 3/8 tile), grout is 1/8, and the drain itself is something like 2 3/4 wide (using the ACO Quartz Plus as an example). Half the drain width is therefore 1 3/8, which means you want to place the center of the clamping drain 2 5/8 inches off the studs (1 1/8 wall build up, 1/8 grout joint and 1 3/8 of the linear drain). A standard clamping drain isn't going to fit (half of 6 1/2 being 3 1/4 which is greater than 2 5/8.)

With John's suggestion I found the Zurn FD 2250 clamping drain which has a total width of 5". That should be able to be placed with its center at 2 5/8 from the wall. Given that the OD of 2" PVC is 2 3/8 that means leaving 1 7/16 inch between the pipe and the studs. Call it 1 1/2" :)
http://www.zurn.com/Pages/ProductDetails.aspx?NodeKey=374195 Ferguson Pluming was able to order one in for me for $35 including shipping to my house. Ferguson's product code (for PVC to connect to 2" pipe) is ZFD2250PV2PB (it's not listed on their site, but they can order it). One should probably make up an example of the wall build up (John suggested cutting a tile into quarters then setting factory edges together to assessing crowning), to be sure of the size of the final wall build up.

Hope that helps anyone struggling to figure out how to do a wall placement of a linear drain using a clamping drain.

Of course another option is not to set the damn thing right against the wall … and have a small tile between the wall and the linear drain, as in this pic:


December 5, 2013 at 6:49am     
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John Whipple - By Any Design ltd.
The Baby Blue by watts is a two piece clamping drain. The drain base is cast iron so it's great for all multi family housing projects. The drain measures about 5.25" across the top.

Perfect for a tight to wall application.

Glad you worked it out. Glad I can help. Thank You so much for your donation!!! JW
December 5, 2013 at 7:20am   
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