kitchen design for a new structure.
hbhwatkins
March 10, 2013 in Design Dilemma
We are building a new home--square log with chinking. The theme of course will be rustic but I do NOT want all log walls, just too much wood for me. I plan on mixing woods and staining and some sheet rock and stone. I want to incorporate some modern features and touches throughout the home. I plan to do concrete floors throughout, just to give you a little background about the project. It will be open floor plan with vaulted ceiling. It is a two level structure. The issue is the kitchen, mudroom, gallery, laundry room area, pantry area. I want the most fuctional areas with the space I have of course. I know I want a custom island and the original plan calls for a fireplace in the kitchen which I am thinking I will just use that space for my range--use thestone for my vent so I can still have the fireplace upstairs. I need advice of how to utilize the space I have for incorporating KITCHEN, MUDROOM, LAUNDRY, PANTRY. I am attaching the original floor plan but we have changed lots on it.(But just for you to see where the windows etc are) And two other sketches, I just feel there is some other options I am missing. I am very visual and I am not sure there is enough walk space and counter space in the one with the walk in island? What are the advantages of a walk in island? I would like to have space on the island for 4 bar stools. Please help!!! I need your expertise. Oh, and not sure the computer desk in that last sketch needs to be in the kitchen--not sure where that came from. I am attaching the last one only for the other option of mudroom/gallery. I want to keep the entry from the outside through the four seasons room all glass as it shows on the last plan. Thanks in advance. I have deadlines and I am overwhelmed when I look at pictures as I don't know what will work in my space and I am running out of time. I need some guidance.
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hbhwatkins
only the latest sketch posted I will add the original and the last one I mentioned for the mudroom other option
March 10, 2013 at 10:40PM   
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hbhwatkins
the orginial floor plan and the other view for mudroom but not pantry:{ I would someone to just take the space and tell me what you would do with it if we going to be your new house.
March 10, 2013 at 10:45PM   
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Eagledzines
This is beyond the scope of this forum. You need a completely new design because the designs are not functional on many levels. It calls for a design professional to work with you one-on-one. You may be able to find one in your area by gong to the black bar at the top of the page and clicking on 'Find Local Pros'.

Since you know you want custom cabinets you might try looking for a custom cabinet maker. That would be a good place to start as they do design work as well. When I had a custom cabinet shop I found it much easier to do my own design work since I was going to be building them. I knew what I could offer based on my skill level and that of my employees (which went beyond what was typically designed) and I knew the machinery and materials that were available to me. When a customer came to me with a design from an architect or independent kitchen designer, I could build it but often felt that I could have accommodated them better had I designed it myself and sometimes ended up redoing the design for the customer when they found out what I could do for them.
March 10, 2013 at 11:40PM     
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hbhwatkins
A designer drew the one with the walk in island and the first one was an original floor plan. Can you just give my advice about specifics of what is not functional? At least a place for me to start. Thanks
March 10, 2013 at 11:54PM   
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hbhwatkins
BTW we are in rural area and not much to choose from on designers locally. I guess I shouldn't have included so much information. And when you said a whole new plan, please explain.
March 10, 2013 at 11:58PM   
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Eagledzines
The first plan appears to be have been designed by an architect, but the individual cabinets are not drawn. It’s a blank, or you could call it a placeholder, left for the kitchen designer. I often saw these.

The problems I see in this one: The range is awkward to the sink. It would be more accessible if it were opposite the sink. The work triangle is blocked by the island. It shouldn’t be blocked by any more than one foot. Another is that the refrigerator abuts a wall. You will not be able to open the door all the way unless you left some space on the mudroom size; how much space will depend on the model of the refrigerator. There is no range hood drawn in. The cabinets on the opposite side of the room are not very accessible to the working area because the island is so large, it would be inconvenient to keep walking around the island to get to them. The sink counter can extend further toward the door. The wall opening in the kitchen to the foyer isn’t centered in order to give visual symmetry to fireplace (or stone over stove). This would also give more wall space for cabinetry. It serves no purpose for it to be off center.

It’s worth checking on this next point, because moving the stove to the fireplace area is a good move in my opinion. If you put the range in the fireplace area, there may be building codes dictating what can go into the fireplace flu. You may need two flues. Depending on the size of the island you may be able to move the sink and dishwasher to the island. You need 24” of counter on one side of the sink (where the dishwasher will go) and at least 15” on the other side. If you were to do that you could move the refrigerator to the sink wall and it wouldn’t then be in a doorway like it is now. It’s better to avoid putting an appliance in a doorway.

Keep in mind that you should have 42”-48” of space between counter to counter, or handle of an appliance if there are two cooks in the kitchen. There should be 36” if there will be one cook in the kitchen.

There is no pantry but there appears to be room for one possibly on the outside wall near the stove or on the foyer wall--it depends on the measurements.
March 11, 2013 at 12:40AM   
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Marie Hebson's interiorsBYDESIGN Inc.
Hi hbhwatkins, Marie here.
It really seems like you could use the professional advice of an interior designer to sit down and walk through these plans with you. Do you not have a local interior designer that you can spend a couple hundred dollars on to review these plans and possible solutions for you - it really would be worth the money to spend on getting this one on one design assistance for your renovation/new home build.
March 11, 2013 at 1:09AM   
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Eagledzines
Second plan
Same problem with the refrigerator as with First plan. Check the manufacturer specifications. You can get them online.

Pantry might be better served with a pocket door if it would fit into the wall.

Support post is out in the middle of nowhere. It’s okay but a little awkward. In the previous plan notes, I didn’t notice that the sink was open to the dining room. This too is awkward. A pass through would be fine.

The work triangle is okay as noted in the triangle, but the ‘U’ doesn’t serve any purpose to the work triangle and would be difficult to access since you would have to walk around the sink peninsula to get to it. The 8’ section just blocks access to both the bar and the sink.

There are no upper cabinets on the plan and very few base cabinets in / near the work triangle.

What are the measurements of the numbers I have written in?
March 11, 2013 at 1:12AM     
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Eagledzines
I totally agree with Marie. I feel your pain. At this stage of the game, there are so many decisions to make but planning a kitchen is central to your ultimate satisfaction with this home. Sitting down with a designer is so much more productive than shooting in the dark and asking what's wrong. She/he will discuss a number of issues with you and interpret your needs and wants into a functional design that fits you personally and will be well worth the cost not only in these terms but in saved headaches and mistakes that you would later regret.
March 11, 2013 at 1:17AM   
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hbhwatkins
Thank you both Marie and eagledzines--The last sketch that eagledizines has asked for measurements was actually created by an interior designer/project coordinator, so I have spent money on this design and it is not functional as you can see. I think that is why I am so frustrated. I am getting the measurements for you and will post them in a few minutes. I appreciate both of you so much for being kinda enough to respond. Hopefully when I get you the information on the measurements you can have some insight for me--I am open to suggestions. And I am not in anyway "attached" to this particular layout. I am fine with starting over with a kitchen plan that will work if you can "see" it for me, I think at this point I have blinders on.
March 11, 2013 at 7:36AM   
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Eagledzines
Since you already paid for a design, it would be good to sit down and discuss these issues with your designer. She/he has already covered some ground on this plan and should be able to make necessary changes. Have her/him make the changes you feel should be addressed and then when you feel you have gone as far as you both can, re-post the very best plan. It should take into consideration ceiling height (lowest and highest--since this is a vaulted ceiling), appliance specifications, the number of people using the kitchen, the range hood application you will be using and the specifications for that, at least basic lighting considerations, width and height of windows, consideration of your ideabook selections what you like or don't like about them, what you like and don't like about the kitchen you now have. After the preliminary plan, desirable options can be included. Kitchen design is a service that rightly deserves payment since it takes time and research and is a very important part of the project. If you have paid for that you rightly deserve a functional kitchen. When you purchase cabinets, that cost of design is recaptured by the sale of the cabinetry. Architects and designers will charge a fee for this since that is often not captured in retail sales. A project of this scale calls for more than casual advice on the internet. If you are going to purchase these cabinets, the retailer can make a plan for you. If the island is going to be made by a custom cabinet company, they will often design it themselves as I mentioned.
March 11, 2013 at 8:20AM   
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hbhwatkins
Tok eagledzines: Could I get claification on what numbers you needed? I read the message again and it ask for measurements for the numbers you have written in, and I don't see any numbers. Thanks
March 11, 2013 at 10:13AM   
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hbhwatkins
TO EAGLEDZINES: OH-- I SEE THE NUMBERS IN RED NOW--1 AND 2 ARE BOTH 17FT. I WILL HAVE TO CHECK ON # 3 I have called the designer--she is 6 hrs away so there is no sitting down--it is all by phone and email so please clarify the following comments: "The sink counter can extend further toward the door" (do you mean, the opening toward the foyer or the front door? I just didn't follow you) A sketch or picture would be great) Also, the following comment: " The wall opening in the kitchen to the foyer isn’t centered in order to give visual symmetry to fireplace (or stone over stove). This would also give more wall space for cabinetry. It serves no purpose for it to be off center. " (I think I understand this comment, did you mean have the wall in the entry go further toward the great room? Just not sure what you meant aobut off center. I am not asking for anyone to design cabinets etc--Just to know what IS functional in this space and then I will know what I need to do and communicate to her what I do need. Obviously, by the design she came up with, depending on her solely is not the answer. Thanks again!!!
The wording you can't read in the front says "table with basket for veggies"--I didn't ask for this either--The window is a counter height--so no upper cabinets can go there. I also do not need the double oven because I will be using a range in the fireplace area--and would like two narrow windows on either side of the fireplace if possible --but that takes away more over head cabinet space
I plan to use a pkt door into the pantry/ laundry area. Do you think this space is functional? What could be the answer for the island area--what shape would work best? The beam can be incorporated in the island maybe? Just a thought. It is a load bearing beam however it can be moved the builder said. THANKS AGAIN--
March 11, 2013 at 11:14AM   
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Eagledzines
So glad are working with your designer and hope this works out for you. Even by phone and e-mail this should help take a lot of the pressure off you.

To answer your questions:

Pic #1: I was speaking of the counter toward the mudroom door in the architect’s plan.

Pic #2: The wall opening going into the kitchen is not centered with fireplace. You might not mind this. It would drive me nuts. It appears to be open around the sink area. I think that actually distracts from the impact of the stonework or mantle hood that you put there. The red lines show how it is not lined up.

Pic #3: The buffet would be nice if it worked in with the final plan. Glass on both sides would allow you to put dishes away without having to go around the corner and put them away from the dining room side.

Pic #4: I haven’t scaled anything off but as long as the measurements work, the pantry / laundry / mudroom area in the hand drawn plan are awesome. There should be at least 36” in the walk area in front of the washer and dryer.
March 11, 2013 at 12:35PM   
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Eagledzines
Pic #5: I would just put a sliding barn door or a pocket door here.

With the second plan, if the upper cabinets just didn’t work in, at least you have the pantry and you can put things in drawers that would normally go in upper cabinets if you have enough drawers.

If you have a table in the kitchen, it would make more sense for all four sides to be useful.

Whatever plan comes forth, it would be nice to have either shelves or upper cabinets.

Here is a suggestion to work on between you both. Nothing is scaled and individual cabinets are not drawn in. Lighting is an issue and depends on the natural light available. At any rate, you will probably need drop lighting over the islands if you do something like this.
March 11, 2013 at 12:38PM   
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hbhwatkins
Pic 5--I agree the pocket door would be great and not "swing out" but that is a solid log wall. Therefore a pocket door is not an option from the way I understand it. I love the sliding barn doors and will have one in the MBRM leading to the bathroom, would I have enough room here for a barn door? I just figured they required more wall space. If not, that is a wonderful idea. One other idea did come to my mind on the laundry/pantry space. If I went back to the other sketch(not the architectual one, but the other sketch that is drawn, the entrance to the laundry is entering from the gallery near where you enter the kitchen on that side of the house. If I used the door from the gallery and not the kitchen that would open up some wall space and floor space. Could the refig go there so it wouldn't be opening into the doorway of the mudroom/gallery? Or do you have another suggestion for the frig? I also thought about putting a "swinging pantry" in that space, not sure if that is feasible or not. I like the idea of the walk in pantry but the swinging pantry looks really functional, do you have an opinion on them or this suggestion?

I totally agree on the table in the kitchen--I am not sure why that was ever even sketched in. If I did anything there I might do a breakfast area --but the situation of needing for storage and cabinets I really don't need to waste this space for a table that I don't really need.

I agree I will need to work i shelves or upper cabinets. Not sure how shelves would work or where.

I love the idea of the work island and the bar with seating. (did I interpret your idea correctly?) Is that a small prep sink at the end of the bar? This is similar to what I have in my current kitchen with tons of pull out cabinets etc--but with the new plan and log walls and the windows in this room there are several constraints I am having to deal with. The sink in the front wall of the house provides lots of counter space and still provides a triangle in the kitchen. And I love the sink under the window however, this window is "counter" height per my builder. Would that work for a sink and a normal height of counter?

And yes I think drop down lighting is a must. There are actually two windows either side of the stone hood/fireplace and if I was able to move the frig to the wall where the pantry door was and utilize the space at the front of the kitchen then there would be room on either side of the windows beside the fireplace for upper cabinets ( or at least that is what I think) in addition to ones in the front ends of the space you created near the sink. Will this work? Is that functional?

So I guess the ?'s are this:
1. Can the sink go under the window on the front wall of the house?
2. Is it worth giving up the walk-in pantry and enter the laundry space for wall space for frig and/or pantry?
3. If the frig won't go on that wall --where can it be moved?
Where can the pantry be added?
I may have forgotten something, but was up till 2:30 a.m. stressing over this issue and my brain is tired of working overtime :) You do not know how much I appreciate you putting "new light " on the whole picture. I was about to decide we had chosen the wrong plan all together.

I look forward to seeing what you have to say about what I have mentioned.
Thanks a million!!!
March 11, 2013 at 9:02PM   
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Eagledzines
I’m not sure if a barn door would fit here or not because I didn’t scale it, but your designer should be able to scale everything off and let you know. The door itself would require only slightly more width than the actual door way, but the track would be about double the width of the door.

Regarding the refrigerator. Putting it into the mudroom door wouldn’t really work since the door would have to extend beyond the wall for the door to open leaving a blind spot on the base cabinets. Also, that door may not be wide enough. Where it is, is not ideal but could be made to work. (And I didn’t draw it in, but should have a spacer made to fit the model number of your refrigerator so the door can adequately open.) It may also go to the right of the dishwasher but the work triangle should be preserved if possible. Spacing as noted in the NKBA guidelines should be taken into consideration when scaling this out and making a final plan. (“The work triangle should total 26’ or less with no single leg longer than 9’ and the work triangle should not interest an island …by more than 12”.”) If you move it make sure the eating bar is short enough for the door to adequately open and consider placing the bar sink on the opposite island. You might prefer it there anyway.

Regarding the swinging pantry-- It would be a wonderful feature for one of the pantry areas that are drawn in.

Shelves or cabinets depend on your overall design. (And how neat you are).

The work island and bar with seating is what I had in mind yes. If this is 36” you should have 15” for knee space. Width is to be determined and if width would allow, the small bar sink could be used for getting glasses of water and small clean up for the bar with seating and for prep, especially when others are helping to prepare food. You could also have a hot water tap there for tea.

Yes, the sink will work with a counter height window. They are great. The counter goes right into the sill area.

If you haven’t already done so, do look into the type of range hood that would be required for the six-burner range you have picked out. The range specifications will tell you the CFMs required. They can be significantly more expensive.

Also, if two people are going to be working in this kitchen at one time, the walkways should be 48".

Before you know it this will all be behind you and you will be enjoying your new home and your new kitchen. Breath!
March 11, 2013 at 10:45PM   
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hbhwatkins
Thanks. What was your thinking on the idea of taking the door out on the kitchen side for the laundry and entering through the gallery/mudroom? (Which would take away the walk-through pantry) Also, what you recommend doing with that wall ( that is a solid log wall) if the entry door for that area is NOT there. Is it worth moving it? Pro and Cons? Could the frig go there? I didn't really understand what you were saying about that it wouldn't go in the mudroom doorway--I would get rid of that door altogether if that is a functtional space for something else that is needed. If it is worth losing the walk-in pantry
And the sink won't be too low under the window in the front? Right? What height are you thinking it would be? And do you have any pictures of an area designed similar? I would love a visual --maybe even just parts of what you have described. Please and thank you. AGAIN!
March 12, 2013 at 8:44AM   
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Eagledzines
Your welcome hbhwatkins,

I love the walkthrough pantry and don’t see any drawbacks to it. It gives you added accessibility at minimal cost in wall space. A BIG no to losing the pantry!

I wouldn’t do anything to that wall (where the entry door is now) if the entry door weren’t there. If that space were used for something else then traffic would be forced through the pantry and laundry (work) area—not a good choice. If you did anything with it on the entry side, it would block the length of the coat closet—not a good idea. If you did something with it on the kitchen side, the only thing it would be good for is a pullout, spaced far enough from the refrigerator so that both the refrigerator and the pullout were functional. You would have lost space and functional interference—not a good an idea. It would work in a pinch, but it doesn’t appear you are in that pinch with all that pantry area. And again, you would lose coat closet space and force traffic to enter through the pantry and laundry (work area) space.

I feel it would be a bigger advantage to you to put the refrigerator to the right of the sink, but keep it within the recommended allowances for the work triangle. It’s convenient to have the sink in the center between the range and the refrigerator because it is central to the use of both. The only drawback is that it might shorten the islands, but this is far less of a functional issue.

That being said, let’s visit your question as to whether the wall between the pantry door and the entry door could be moved. IF that solid wall could be moved, yes, the refrigerator could go there, with a small prep sink on the island closet to the stove but on the backside of the island, not on the stove side. That would serve to separate work centers if someone were helping you in the kitchen and it would lengthen the islands since they wouldn’t be shortened by the refrigerator being on the sink side. The cons are that it would take away some pantry space and some coat closet space and it would open in to the 42” walkway. So the answer to that question lies in what you value most the trade off in work centers as opposed to lost pantry / closet space and also the cost involved in moving the wall. Even if you don’t have to have a change order for it, there may or may not be additional costs in bracing involved that should be checked out.

The windowsill itself should be at 36”. Here is a picture.








March 12, 2013 at 9:45AM   
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hbhwatkins
I am confused about the coat closet and entry etc. I wasn't referring to the entry meaning the entry from the front or involving the coat closet in any way. I will read my message again and see if I can clarify, it may be that I didn't understand your explanation fully.
Also, I was wrong about the size of the window that is currently planned--it is a 4'6" window--so a sinke and counter would not work at all--unless we change the size of the window to a 3'6 window--I guess I need to decide if that is a trade off for the sink in the front. If not, I am back to the drawing board. My husband really likes the large windows--it makes the front of the house. There are twin windows so it is a really large window, wonder how that woud look?
March 12, 2013 at 11:07AM   
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Eagledzines
As long as the window sill is 36" off the floor it doesn't matter what the width is. If you mean the window is below counter height, don't despair. You have a large kitchen and there is a workable plan.


I'm sorry for the confusion. I was referring to the entry to the kitchen near the pantry. Is that what you were asking about?
March 12, 2013 at 11:17AM   
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Eagledzines
Could you get these measurements on the window wall?
March 12, 2013 at 11:27AM   
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abSketches
Have you ever thought about bringing in a rendering company to help you visualize in photo realistic 3D? I know how difficult it can be to see what is being explained on 2D black and white paper.
March 12, 2013 at 11:30AM   
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hbhwatkins
abSketches : Would that be you? That would be oh so helpful just if I could even get a functional space. eagledzine is trying to ease my pain and help me get a workable plan. eagledzines--let me get out the original plan and see.
March 12, 2013 at 12:23PM     
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hbhwatkins
absketch:How would I go about that? I would love to see a realistic 3D pic of how functional it would be. Please let me know.
March 12, 2013 at 2:06PM     
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hbhwatkins
eagledzines: It is about 7 ft on either side of the window-- and the window is currently figured at 3/2X4/0-2 which is too long for a counter to go underneath it--so guess I change windows or do something else with the sink--What do you think? The outside wall there is 18 ft.
March 12, 2013 at 2:12PM   
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Eagledzines
Are you able to get the measurements on the drawing I sent? That would be more helpful. If you have hbhwatkins do a 3D they will need that information.

The plan view that we have been working on is done before the 3D can be done.
March 12, 2013 at 6:19PM   
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hbhwatkins
Right! I guess I am not sure what you are talking about. The front wall is 17 ft across--that IS the wall you are talking about right? Or do you need from the floor up to window? Just not sure what ?'s I need to answer so you can help me with that area.
March 12, 2013 at 8:08PM   
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Eagledzines
Yes, the floor to the window, the height of the window and the total ceiling height.
March 12, 2013 at 9:03PM   
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abSketches
@hbhwatkins Check out my page for some examples of 3D images we produce. I would LOVE to help walk you through the process and give you some ideas!
March 13, 2013 at 4:45AM   
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abSketches
@hbhwatkins sorry, just read my post. ALL we do is 3D Architectural Illustrations. Every image on my page is a rendering. Sorry for any confusion :)
March 13, 2013 at 4:47AM   
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Rustica Hardware
If your interested in a barn door and hardware give us a call we will help you with deciding if a sliding barn door will work with the space you have. All our barn door items are fully customizable. See: http://rusticahardware.com/barn-door-hardware/
March 13, 2013 at 10:47AM   
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hbhwatkins
Thank you! I know I will have one in my bedroom leading to the bathroom--I love the concept. Can you please give me your contact info.
March 13, 2013 at 11:55AM   
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Rustica Hardware
You can call: 1.800.891.8312 or email support@rusticahardware.com Thanks for your interest.
March 13, 2013 at 12:04PM   
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New York Stone
If you need help with picking out stone for your kitchen call us at New York Stone! 201-679-7031
March 13, 2013 at 12:59PM   
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hbhwatkins
Thank you both for the info --we will be using both so I will certainly call for a quote.
March 13, 2013 at 1:06PM   
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hbhwatkins
to eagledzines: I finally received the information you requested 1) floor to ceiling height is 10'
2) Floor to bottom of the open beams is 9'4" 3) Height from floor to bottom of window is 19" if we use the same type that is in plan now. There are twin windows as you can see. I have considered splitting them and using single instead and putting a 3 ft counter in the front corner then a 3/2X4/0 window and then a 6ft space for the sink and counter space and then another window of the same size and then a a corner longer cabinet in the other corner. What do you think?
March 13, 2013 at 1:21PM   
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nice1211
That realy gave me good tips so i can re-model my kitchen!:)
March 13, 2013 at 1:26PM   
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hbhwatkins
I am becoming frustrated--I need to make some decisions soon ;( I hope it helped someone. If I could visualize it --that just may be the answer I have one other sketch I am going to pick apart before I decide
March 13, 2013 at 1:30PM   
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Eagledzines
It's coming. Do you have your refrigerator picked out? If so, what is the make and model #.
March 13, 2013 at 5:37PM   
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hbhwatkins
I do not. I haven't gotten to that --but I know I want a larger on --any suggestions? Not sure if I want side by side --just haven't researched all the options at this pt
March 13, 2013 at 6:09PM   
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hbhwatkins
Did the measurements get you what you needed? I really don't want to give up those front windows being twin windows. It will be so much more of a statement if we have them together instead of split. If we go with the two together there is no way for a counter or sink under it.
I also thought of putting the sink over on the wall where the range is but that window is 5 ft long as well. I would have to make it a shorter window there. Thoughts?
March 13, 2013 at 6:28PM   
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Eagledzines
Here is a DRAFT before we go any further.

I don't like the refrigerator there as you know. It is preferable not to put it in a doorway. However, it is a trade-off with cabinets. If you put it on the other end of the stove wall, you will lose the cabinets there.

This plan gives you a tall cabinet near the eating island, at the end of the bench. This would look great as a full height cabinet with glass.

The eating island--I think a great rustic table would look good there. Drop lighting here.

It gives you a 15"-18" high bench under the window. You would have to work out the height of the bench with the GC. The sill and apron treatment has to be factored in. There could be drawers underneath (depth to be decided).

The area between the sink and the eating island should be ideally 48".

Care needs to be taken to make sure that the refrigerator (including handles) doesn't stick into the doorway and manufacturer specifications need to be consulted for any drainage necessary that would impact the depth needed for the refrigerator.

Other measurements can be nailed down after a draft is approved.

What style door do you have picked out? What wood? Painted or stained? Which one is it in your ideabook? What is the hood treatment you have picked out? Is that in your ideabook?
March 13, 2013 at 6:38PM     
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Eagledzines
If you wanted a desk it could go where the buffet is.
March 13, 2013 at 6:42PM   
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Eagledzines
@Rustica Hardware--can you provide us with a pdf of the specs for the barn door?
March 13, 2013 at 6:52PM   
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Eagledzines
Do you know how much you want the stove to stick out? Did you want legs on each side? Are these going to be custom, or semi-custom or stock cabinets? Have you picked out a range? The model of the range will dictate the specifications of the range hood. The specifications of the range hood will impact the construction of the hood area.
March 13, 2013 at 7:16PM   
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Eagledzines
This is more like what I was thinking about at the end of the bench--not a buffet, but a tall glass cabinet. I was just strolling through your ideabook and found what I was thinking of.

March 13, 2013 at 7:54PM   
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Eagledzines
Do you like this table?

March 13, 2013 at 8:15PM   
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hbhwatkins
I do like the glass cabinet. I am not sure about the table, maybe if it were rustic! Maybe we can find a picture of what you have in mind.
March 13, 2013 at 9:29PM   
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hbhwatkins
Have you found any pic that have the work island and seating island? Just would like to see an overall concept.
March 13, 2013 at 9:40PM   
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Eagledzines
This last plan doesn't allow for windows each side of the stove, but gives you more cabinet space. It will be a trade-off either way.
March 13, 2013 at 9:40PM   
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hbhwatkins
Oh and BTW there are windows on either side of the range/hood on that wall. Would it be better to put the sink under that window? Or you think it is better in the work island?
March 13, 2013 at 9:43PM   
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hbhwatkins
eagledzines: What are the sizes of the island and seating bar?
March 13, 2013 at 9:47PM   
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Eagledzines
Sizes are not determined yet. If this is a plan you might be interested in that is something we could do next.
March 13, 2013 at 9:48PM   
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Eagledzines
Like I said, it's a trade-off. If you put windows there you will not lose the upper cabinets. Your choice.
I do think the sink should go in the island. It is more central.
March 13, 2013 at 9:50PM   
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hbhwatkins
Oh I like light and I like cabinets. I don't like trade offs--:)
March 13, 2013 at 9:54PM   
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Eagledzines
No, I don't blame you. Trade-offs are no fun. You do have a lot of light with those windows though on the side.
And we probably don't know exactly the size of that stone work or treatment around the range hood which might take up more space than it shows on the print. The next step would be to locate a range and figure out what is going to be required for a housing for it to figure out how much space that is going to need and then figure out what is left to work with.
March 13, 2013 at 9:57PM   
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hbhwatkins
Oh did you mean an actual table? I thought you meant a table on one side of the seating bar--the one closet to the opening to the Great Room.
March 13, 2013 at 9:57PM   
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Eagledzines
Yes, that is what I meant. A table for the seating bar at the far end of the kitchen.
March 13, 2013 at 9:58PM   
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Eagledzines
Seating on only the backside and not under the sink island. This allows you to take food etc from the pantry and set them either on the table or on the sink counter and allows someone to help out on the other side away from the central work area.
If you wanted a prep sink in the second island, there would be a change--perhaps adding a 36" high piece of counter on the end of it in granite for the prep sink.


March 13, 2013 at 10:02PM   
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Eagledzines
With 10' ceilings, lighting is an issue. Even if you opt for windows either side of the range and if there is room for windows there, you will still have to address the lighting issue for night time. We usually put under cabinet lighting in the wall cabinets. If they are not there, then drop lighting may be an option. Do you know what is planned for ambient light that spreads around the room? My concern is especially for task lighting that under-cabinet lighting would take care of.

Are you working with a lighting specialist or electrician who can make recommendations?
March 13, 2013 at 10:05PM   
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Eagledzines
This one is especially nice.


March 13, 2013 at 10:06PM   
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hbhwatkins
Well on the range/hood My husbnd mentioned to me tonight we don't have to do stone there for the hood. It will have to have some stone to some point because it is a fireplace upstairs--it will be gas logs.
On the windows--on either side of the range. The upstairs will have windows in the gable ends too so we will want to match them the more I think about it. They wouldn't have to be as big as the ones upstairs though. I would think for them not to look funny you would want them the same width. right?
Did you see the last kitchen in my ideabook? Has the bay window with bench seating and the ra nge where mine is, and there is a window over the sink on the wall near the range but there is cabinets between the range and the sink. Would I have space for that? Is that feasible? Is that functional? I love the bench you put in the front and the glass cabinet. and you did a corner cabinet too right?
March 13, 2013 at 10:06PM   
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mveasey
Wow, eagledzines! Very impressive - so wonderful of you to put in so much effort!
March 13, 2013 at 10:07PM   
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Eagledzines
It's a fluke. I'm retired.
March 13, 2013 at 10:07PM   
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hbhwatkins
She knew I was at a breaking point I do believe :) I'll have to invite her to the river to see the results--If I ever get this thing built :)
March 13, 2013 at 10:11PM     
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hbhwatkins
I feel special. Thanks
March 13, 2013 at 10:12PM     
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hbhwatkins
I think it has been a challenge and she has some great ideas--log homes there are so many constraints I did NOT think of.
March 13, 2013 at 10:14PM   
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Eagledzines
I do believe I feel a calmness setting in ;-)

Is the bay window in your 'kitchens' ideabook? The last one I see is #111 and I don't see a bay window.

Yes, if you put windows there they should match the upstairs in width and alignment.

This stonework is very nice and it has windows above the cabinets and since you have 10' ceilings, that would be do-able. However, until you have the range and hood requirements--we need those to move ahead before answering spatial questions.


March 13, 2013 at 10:18PM     
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hbhwatkins
We are meeting with the electrican and radiant heat people next week hopefully--if I at least have a footprint of an plan by then.
On the cabinets--yes they will be custom--at this poiint have talked to a couple different ones--I really like a master craftsman work --but he is really far away --we will see I will send him my sketch as soon as I know what I Kinda want.
March 13, 2013 at 10:19PM   
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Eagledzines
Something more technical than this rough layout would not be difficult to make from here. But we just need more information.

Just out of curiosity, do you know what kind of flooring you will be looking at?
March 13, 2013 at 10:22PM   
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hbhwatkins
We are doing all concrete floors with radiant heat
I made a new ideabook called "Top Picks" That is the lay out I was referring to
March 13, 2013 at 10:27PM   
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hbhwatkins
Right on the info --So I need to look at range size correct? And drop lighting I plan to have --but of course would love some under cabinets as well
I do think I would like a prep sink in the other island--If we happen to move the sink to the outside wall near the range then I would want a prep sink in the work island and not in the seating bar.
March 13, 2013 at 10:30PM     
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Eagledzines
Yes, there is a corner wall cabinet. I do see the bay window picture. Narrowing down the actual sizes will come next, then can determine if the sink can go there if you prefer. I do think it's in a good place now. If it were moved, would you want the dishwasher near the prep sink or near the main sink? That might take out the corner cabinets and all the cabinets to the bench.
March 13, 2013 at 10:33PM   
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Eagledzines
Stained concrete is awesome.
March 13, 2013 at 10:36PM   
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Eagledzines
Agreed on the sinks.
March 13, 2013 at 10:36PM   
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Eagledzines
Do you have a sink? Will you be using a farmer's sink? or maybe a custom made stone sink?
One long bay or two bays? Hammered copper in the bar sink?
March 13, 2013 at 10:38PM   
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mveasey
Hope it all works out!
We own a couple of Pan-abode homes and understand the issues associated.
With respect to your wiring - may I suggest talking to your electrician about putting extra wiring in conduits in various locations, to provide ease of reworking or adding extra circuits for lighting, office needs or kitchen appliances in the future. Also leave space in the panel or have a sub.
Running additional wiring in a log home later on is a monstrous headache!
But there are lots of joys associated with owning a log home, and I wish you much success in the next few days and weeks!
March 13, 2013 at 10:40PM     
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Eagledzines
A link to chandeliers over rustic tables:
http://www.houzz.com/chandelier-over-rustic-table
March 13, 2013 at 10:42PM   
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Eagledzines
@mveasey--Good points.
March 13, 2013 at 10:43PM   
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hbhwatkins
I have looked at a farm sink --I don't think a stone sink -- and I do like the hammered copper but I wouldn't want my main sink copper so might be good choice for the prep sink
On the bays--I haven't even thought of that--opinion?
I am used to having a trash compactor--I hate the thought of taking more cabinet space --but really want one
I am giving up two stove tops in my house now, I would like to have two ovens--or at least I think i would --and I do have to have a microwave somewhere
March 13, 2013 at 10:44PM   
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Eagledzines
Is putting in a bay on option that you wanted? Yes to the appliances. There isn't a huge amount of cabinets in and around the main work area.

Regarding the refrigerator--Subzero makes a model that is ALL refrigerator that is slimmer and also a matching model for the freezer that is also slimmer. I'm wondering about putting the freezer in the pantry, leaving you more room for cabinets/window.

Selecting all your appliances is really critical to the final stage of design.
March 13, 2013 at 10:50PM   
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hbhwatkins
Thank you mveasey We have a log cabin now--and we love it --and yes wiring in not easy--we learned some when building it --but building it was not near the stress this one has been thus far. I think maybe because it was just that a "cabin".
March 13, 2013 at 10:52PM   
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hbhwatkins
ok I lost you on the bay comment. I was referring to bays in the sink. Were you thinking bay window? No to the bay window I had to work hard to get an alcove in the bathroom for tub--my husband is concerned with making sure the walls are all guttered efficently so there will be no problems with moisture. So I would never convince him of more "lines" to gutter
March 13, 2013 at 11:00PM     
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Eagledzines
Regarding faucets--You will need one that can go through 1 1/4 inches). Some come with adapters to get through the width but some don't (the ones you get at Lowe's for instance). Maybe that's changed since I've been out of the business and since so many people go with stone rather than laminate now. But, best to check. It's best to order them through a plumber or even your custom cabinet maker might have access to it, if he/she has a showroom. I used to sell plumbing supplies with my custom cabinets--so your cabinet maker might. Big box stores order large enough orders that they can demand their own specifications--finishes that aren't as tough, porcelain that is thinner and chips easier and faucets without ceramic washers....etc. Same brand but different specs. Look for faucets with ceramic washers and get them through a specialty supplier.
March 13, 2013 at 11:03PM   
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Eagledzines
Oh right...bays in the sink. I love the one large bay but I have a Franke stainless 3 bay and I love it. It just depends on what you like. I also love the look of bumping out a farmers sink, which I don't think would look good if you bumped out the range in the same run of cabinets.
March 13, 2013 at 11:06PM   
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hbhwatkins
Oh my goodnes so much to think about --and so glad you know so much. Been awhile since I have built (except for the cabin) I looked at the lighting link --love some of those
March 13, 2013 at 11:06PM     
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Eagledzines
Okay. I'm going to leave you with that. It can be overwhelming to think about too much at once. Let me know when you have appliance measurements and we can move ahead from there. Much depends on that. It's 2:08 am here and my bedtime. I'll wait to hear from you.
March 13, 2013 at 11:09PM   
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hbhwatkins
I agree on the sink --And I have the same kind of sink currently--and it is 3 bay stainless--and love it --I have a prep sink and hardly use it because I do have the 3 bays --But not sure if I want the small narrow bay this time since I love the farm sinks
March 13, 2013 at 11:09PM   
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Eagledzines
@Rustica Hardware--Second call for you. Need pdf specs on the barn door hardware.
March 13, 2013 at 11:12PM   
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hbhwatkins
I was actually was fixing to say the same-I teach school and those middle schoolers and high schoolers will have he best of me tomorrow if I don't get some ZZZZ's Looking forward to Spring Break next week. I'll sleep on it It's 1:11 and way past mine. I will get back to you on appliances and I will also ask a ? about mudroom area tomorrow. Thanks again
March 13, 2013 at 11:13PM   
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Eagledzines
I would like to know about the ceiling treatment, wall treatment and the windows.

CEILING TREATMENT
The architectural plan below shows beams only where indicated in red on the architectural drawing but you mentioned beams in the ceiling in the kitchen. Are there others in the kitchen area beside what I have marked in red? If so, using the architectural drawing, would you locate the beams in the kitchen with a dotted line or a colored line, including any that might abut the walls?

Regarding the beams that are located on the architectural drawing below as well as any others that may be in the kitchen: Are the they, square or round logs? Are they rough or smooth wood (P-lams) or are they finished with sheetrock? What is the ceiling treatment between them—is it sheetrock or is it wood?

WINDOWS
Do you have the make and model number of the mullioned windows in the kitchen?

WALLS
Are any logs exposed on the interior walls or are they sheetrocked? If any are exposed—on what walls?
March 14, 2013 at 7:48AM   
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Eagledzines
The cabinets on the bench wall can be made 18" to match the bench since this is custom, giving you 6" more inches of counter space along that range wall.
March 14, 2013 at 7:53AM   
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hbhwatkins
How do I send you a private message-I want to send you a couple of pics--of the outside of a house--for the windows--but I can't publish it to the public. It is for my use only. I have a options on the windows. The plan was just a start from the drafter--I have paid for the drafting but I get 3 more revisions however, I do not have time for that many revisions so I am trying to get it at least "almost right" so I can send it to them for a redraft. They can cut the logs for any size window or opening inside that we want. It is custom package --It is based off a floorplan they have but I am not stuck with it. I hope this makes sense. Let me know how to contact you with the pics of the general look of the house. Windows can be adjusted as we want.
March 14, 2013 at 8:07AM   
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hbhwatkins
All the log beams are wood--they are square and all hand hewn design. I will get a list of the ?'s and get my info out and get you the answers.
March 14, 2013 at 8:08AM   
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Eagledzines
This is my favorite switch, both a rocker and a dimmer.


March 14, 2013 at 8:14AM   
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Dreamwork Kitchens
To find a reputable kitchen dealer in your area - Google the NKBA (National KItchen & Bath Association) They will be able to find you help. Good Luck with your Project.
March 14, 2013 at 8:15AM   
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hbhwatkins
eagledzines: I have yourcontact info--I will download the pics and get them to you within the hour
March 14, 2013 at 8:36AM   
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hbhwatkins
Dreamwork kitchens: Did you mean for cabinets or what?
March 14, 2013 at 8:38AM   
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Rustica Hardware
Hi eagledzines answering your question: Can you provide us with a pdf of the specs for the barn door? Generally the rail for the barn door to run on will be 2 times the width of the door. So you will need to consider the wall space available to accommodate the door when its opened. Any door can be hung on the hardware as long as its not over 300 pounds. We offer solid alder wood door kits that are easy to assemble. The attached jpg is the specs for one of the door kits we offer. See: http://rusticahardware.com/solid-alder-barn-door/
March 14, 2013 at 9:08AM   
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Eagledzines
Very well. Thank you. What finishes are available?
March 14, 2013 at 9:13AM   
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Dreamwork Kitchens
Eagledzines , A member Dealer with the NKBA will be able to help you with all aspects of your project , from cabinets to counters , floors and finishes.
March 14, 2013 at 10:45AM   
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onthefence
Dreamwork, Eagledzines IS a kitchen designer. She is very graciously helping out the original poster here and has done so with LOTS of other people. Her kitchen kitchen designs are impressive and well thought out in terms of functionality and looks.
March 14, 2013 at 10:53AM     
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Eagledzines
@Dreamwork--I see you do custom and semi custom.
March 14, 2013 at 11:11AM   
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Eagledzines
Thank you onthefece!
March 14, 2013 at 11:12AM     
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hbhwatkins
Dreamwork Kitchens: eagledzines has been very helpful in working through some design issues I HAD. Working with her has put a total new light on issues that I had actually paid someone for and the results were non functional. She has raised lots of questions for me to make my kitchen functional --that I have never thought of. She is not trying to sell her business or product. She has taken an interest in making MY kitchen one SHE would want. And I can't express my appreciation enough. She has certainly made a difference in my stress level this week.)
March 14, 2013 at 11:13AM     
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Eagledzines
Thank you hbhwatkins!
March 14, 2013 at 11:14AM   
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Eagledzines
Dreamworks, I shall keep your products in mind. What is your service area? Do you use any reclaimed lumber in your work?
March 14, 2013 at 11:15AM   
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hbhwatkins
You are very welcome eagledzines. Just telling it the way it is!! :)
March 14, 2013 at 11:19AM   
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hbhwatkins
onthefence: That is exactly correct. Eagledzines has been and continues to be very helpful. I expected to be given advice and it be left up to me to figure the rest out. Luckily, she has stuck it out with me and we still aren't finished, but getting there. Thanks!
March 14, 2013 at 11:21AM     
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onthefence
@hbhwatkins, we're the eagledzines fan club! If I ever get "OFFthefence" with my kitchen thoughts and planning, I very much hope eagle is still feeling like exercising her kitchen design talents!

And my congratulations to you on the design progress you've made.
March 14, 2013 at 11:34AM     
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hbhwatkins
to eagledzines: I sent you an email and it was returned to me saying delivery failed --I sent it twice I guess I must have written he email address down wrong. Can you give it again? I am back from my much needed spring break trip and need to finish this weekend on the footprint of the design. I have a few more specifics for you and wanted your opinion.
Also, who makes that slimmer sub-zero frig and freezer--I was already thinking of doin the seperate frig and freezer but didn't think of putting it in the mudroom area --and I am thinking about taking a few feet out of the four seasons room to add a little more space in the mudroom. We sat down this morning and discussed the frig--I can put it on the wall where the pantry entry is if I want to forgo the walk in pantry on that wall and put it somewhere and somehow in the mudroom. We did decide we need to put windows on either side of the range/hood to make that side of the house look "right" Thoughts?
March 21, 2013 at 11:30PM   
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hbhwatkins
I bet that was the problem--I will send it again
March 22, 2013 at 10:50AM   
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March 22, 2013 at 10:51AM   
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hbhwatkins
I sent you an email
March 22, 2013 at 11:29AM   
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hbhwatkins
thanks I will take a look at the frig website
March 22, 2013 at 11:29AM   
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hbhwatkins
Did all that make sense? I replied to your ? --or at least I think I did
March 22, 2013 at 2:24PM   
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OnePlan
Wow !!

This is a fantastic example of a kind hearted and talented designer giving her time and experience to someone simply asking for help !

And this is one of many that Ms Eagledzines has helped !!

I hope Houzz notes this !!!

She deserves a special mention or something !!!
March 23, 2013 at 2:58AM     
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Eagledzines
Thank you very much OnePlan!
March 23, 2013 at 10:31AM     
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hbhwatkins
OnePlan: She has been the "go to " person for me. She has made me feel comfortable, even to the point to where I could ask "dumb" questions and she could make me understand. I am such a visual person and she has provided such eye openers that I am so very thankful for.
March 23, 2013 at 7:13PM     
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