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100garza

Did I severely overpay for a niche?

100garza
11 years ago
I contracted to have a total bath remodel (5x8 bathroom). We are on day 6 today and the installer & I were discussing where to install the 2 corner shelves. He asked me why I didn’t get a niche on the back shower wall instead of adding 2 corner shelves. He had installed the sheet of Durock on the back shower wall yesterday.

He said it would be easy to do even though he already put up the Durock sheet. He would just have to take down the sheet, do some cutting of the beams, frame out a 16x20 niche, and put the Durock back up around the niche.

I attached a pic of the work he did today. I don’t have a before shot, but it was a solid piece of Durock. The niche will have mosaic in it & tile on the sides of it (mosaic & tile pics attached also).
I asked about how much it would be & he said it shouldn’t be that much (maybe a couple hundred).

He then called & checked with the company he works for & they said it would be $1,375 to redo the wall to add the niche.

Am I getting ripped off as that sounds like a lot of money to add a niche. I understand that he had to redo what he had done & cut & frame up the niche, but that sounded extremely expensive. Other than that, I have been pleased with the company & work so far.

Would anyone who does this type of work know?

Comments (31)

  • PRO
    Ironwood Builders
    11 years ago
    I have got to start installing tile! That pays more than a weeks labor in California for a journeyman carpenter. Did you sign a contract? What does it say about change orders? Legally...contract or no, without a signed change order...they just did the work for free. Negotiate. Play fair and nice until someone else does not.
  • PRO
    Ironwood Builders
    11 years ago
    Wait...The tile guy cut out studs and changed a wall? Exterior or interior? How did he know it was not a bearing wall? Did anyone discuss this as a possibility? I hope so.
  • PRO
    Norm Walters Construction Inc.
    11 years ago
    Tile installers exceed their scope of work all the time. In Florida a licensed plumber is supposed to install the shower pan liner.
  • 100garza
    Original Author
    11 years ago
    It was an interior wall, my bedroom is on the other side of the wall. The attached pic is the best I have of the area. It's the right hand wall where the beams are exposed.
    Yes, he did cut studs & redid the wall to accommodate the niche & I discussed if it was a bearing wall, and he said it was.

    I do have a contract and 1 installer is doing all the work (except the electric, as a Master Electrician came in on day 3 to do the switches & GFI’s).
    I have taken pics at the end of each day so I know what he did each day. It is a reputable company in my area, but $1375 sounded really high to me to do that today.
  • PRO
    Ironwood Builders
    11 years ago
    So did he add a header to carry the load of the studs he cut away? It's not clear from your picture!
  • PRO
    Ironwood Builders
    11 years ago
    Is the 2X horizontal on the upper right supposed to be the support for the studs that were removed?
  • PRO
    Ironwood Builders
    11 years ago
    BTW..Norm and I are carrying on a separate email conversation trying to figure this out. We are not happy campers.
  • PRO
    Norm Walters Construction Inc.
    11 years ago
    The wall with the niche should be framed like the wall with the window.
  • PRO
    Ironwood Builders
    11 years ago
    Taaaadaaa! The answer above wins the prize for correct construction technique and best practices! Tell us we are looking at the wrong thing and we will stop pestering you!
  • 100garza
    Original Author
    11 years ago
    I really do not know about a header, as I was not here when he did it. I know he brought several pieces of wood in the house, but I didn't see the wall until it was done (in 1st pic above) . He framed the other wall in the bathroom for recessed cabinets and had to cut some beams in this pic. I dont think that will help answer your question, but it may help with how I think the niche was framed.
  • PRO
    Norm Walters Construction Inc.
    11 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago
    Can you post a picture taken a little further away, and showing the top of the wall for both the niche and the recessed area also showing the top of the wall?
  • PRO
    Ironwood Builders
    11 years ago
    I don't even want to see the top....the bottom is bad enough. No load path, no cripples or king studs, toenails carrying loads on bearing walls. What the heck is that cantilever deal with the...oh never mind. Get a carpenter in there pronto. Tell them they can pay the carpenter fix the fubared wall framing and take it off the top of their quote for the niche...and then some. Is the wall still open in the closet? All that durock needs to come down again.
  • PRO
    Norm Walters Construction Inc.
    11 years ago
    David, that's not even the niche wall, that's another wall, double trouble.
  • S. Thomas Kutch
    11 years ago
    Both Norm and Irwonwood are correct......and yes, for $1375 you're being hosed. You need a carpenter to correct the mess the tile guy has made pretending he's a carpenter. I agree with Ironwood, no change order, it's free work.... now you just have to get the tile contractor to agree to pay the carpenter to fix the mess his employee has created.....good luck.
  • PRO
    Linda
    11 years ago
    By the way, were there permits pulled for this job? Was there a rough inspection for the plumbing changes before the durock went up?

    I suspect I know the answer to that question, but I'm asking anyway...

    The guys are right about the framing issues - that tile installer may have been trying his best, but that shouldn't mean he gets to practice on your house
  • 100garza
    Original Author
    11 years ago
    I'll try to make this as short as I can due to all the questions.

    The installer works for the bath remodel company, he is not a sub-contractor.
    Like I said, he is preforming the entire job (except electric). Before he started, I questioned him on how he knows how to do everything(tile, plumbing, drywall, etc.)
    He stated that he has been doing all of the work & working for them for 10 years.

    I choose this company as they have been in business over 30 years, had good references, a good warranty, and does not use subcontractors. I know nothing about remodeling, so I thought I did my due diligence before hiring them.
    After reading what you all are writing, I now feel sick that I made a terrible mistake and we are already into day 7 of the job.

    I signed a contract with a final price for the entire remodel. If they ran into any issues (except mold), all charges would be included in that cost.
    I picked out everything (tile, HW, sink, paint etc.) that I wanted, and is included in that price.
    They said they would take care of everything needed from start to finish. In the contract it states “they will comply with all local requirements for building permits, inspections & zoning”.

    Don’t get me wrong, I was given the option of the niche when choosing my items, but declined because of the price (but it was a while back & I can’t remember the quote).
    After I had trouble deciding (with installer) where to place the 2 Corian corner shelves, so they wouldn’t be in the way of the mosaic tile inlay or the towel bar, he then asked why I didn’t get the niche.
    That’s how it came up again. After him showing me what he could do, it seemed a much better choice than it did when I was designing it in the showroom.

    It was my choice to say yes to the niche, but when I heard the price, I just thought $1375 was very steep to add after the project started.
    I am the one who said ok to changing the project, but didn’t feel that bad as he said it wouldn’t be much work to add it in (at the point where he was in the project).

    I can only attach 4 pics at a time, but will try to add what I think will help adn will add more so you can see start to finish.
  • 100garza
    Original Author
    11 years ago
    more pics as of yesteray
  • 100garza
    Original Author
    11 years ago
    1 more
  • 100garza
    Original Author
    11 years ago
    Thanks for your explanation, now I understand.
    So I guess I can't prove that he added a header unless I call the company and have them remove everything to see if a header was added (he added shower tile today). I don't want to risk teh structure or safety and I can't believe they would either if they did this on purpose.
  • PRO
    Norm Walters Construction Inc.
    11 years ago
    A small section of the drywall can be cut out of the wall on the opposite side of the shower wall for inspection. I would show them the pictures you posted here, that should cause some concern, just as it did here.
  • K B
    11 years ago
    @Norm Walters--I just bookmarked this discussion. What a wonderful explanation of load-bearing walls and when a header is needed. Great for any layperson with a building or renovation project going on.
    @100garza--Could you please update what is going on with your dilemma? From what I read, it sounds like the company is (currently) on the hook for the change they made to your bathroom. Have you addressed your concerns with the company? And, if so what was their reaction? Also, I didn't see your answer. Were permits pulled for this project? I thought if permits are pulled you are supposed to post them at the front of your home. When I redid my bath, inspectors had to come out several times due to previously installed pipes creating too large an opening in the floor joists (or something like that). I would hope an inspector would catch anything untoward, but I guess that depends upon the individual inspector.
  • 100garza
    Original Author
    11 years ago
    The Production supervisor of the company came out and had the installer redo the wall, and add headers.

    As for the niche, I saw 2 copies of the change form sitting with the installers tools, but he did not ask me to sign it (yet).
    The original contract has specifics about paying for additional work after the project starts, but it also states the change order must be signed by both parties.

    I went to the company Saturday and asked if permits were pulled and they said yes (they are not posted on my property) also stated in their contract is that they “comply with all local requirements for building permits, inspections & zoning”.
  • PRO
    Norm Walters Construction Inc.
    11 years ago
    @KB, it was not my intention to encourage homeowners to modify structural walls themselves. This type of modification needs to be performed by a professional under the supervision of a general contractor. Permits need to be pulled and inspections are required when structure is modified. Due to your interpretation of the post, and possibly others, I have deleted it.
  • K B
    11 years ago
    @Norm Walters, LOL! No I didn't take it as a step-by-step guide to make structural modifications. I just meant it was helpful, so when we (homeowners) hire people who know what they are doing (you professionals) that we have sufficient knowledge to assess whether they actually know what they are doing. Certainly would have helped this poster. I'm reading Finishing A House by Roe Osborn, not bc I want to finish a house, but so when my builder is building my home, I will know what to look for and be able to ask intelligent questions during the construction process. Now, I'll just put down my sledgehammer....
  • PRO
    Norm Walters Construction Inc.
    11 years ago
    @KB, that may have been a knee jerk reaction, I just didn't want someone to try it, especially since I left out the most important part, temporarily supporting the structure above. 8-)
  • artgeis
    9 years ago
    Just saw your comments and discussion, I'm not a pro but have all my own bathrooms start to finish......The most practical solution at the outset was to buy a ready made niche ie Laticrete or Fin Pan, already waterproofed...**sized to fit between studs**. So no need to cut studs etc.......
  • Meka Wood
    9 years ago
    Yes that's way overpriced
  • PRO
    Shower Niches and Shelves
    7 years ago

    Did he line it with kerdi or vinyl? I would estimate about 4x the reasonable cost.

  • RYMEETranslations Qiu
    3 years ago
    last modified: 3 years ago

    What I don't understand is why he asked you to do this when he had already installed the durock sheet? He should have mentioned it before installing it; if they need to redo it. It sounds like he was just trying to get more money from you. Most contractors would have mentioned this before doing the job. Because shower niches are so common, almost standard, because it saves space. Also it can still be installed without having to redo everything. I got a really good contractor for the entire home remodel, so he does everything the economical way. Or lets me decide how I want it done. From the sounds of it you have one of those contracting companies always doing it the expensive way to squeeze more money out of you. Paid a company to do the roof and charge 15,000 for a 1 level 1495sqft house. They also installed it cheaply. We need to deal with them later on how they improperly installed it. But currently busy with the remodeling. Current contractor I have would have done it for less. The same company was going to charge me 8,000 for painting which is more than some contractors and current contractor charging 4,500. Had another few contractors with good reviews also quoted around the 4,000.

  • Art Garcia
    3 years ago

    Well, you shouldn'tbe talking to installer to begin with,once you sign yer contract that's what you woll get and making any changes is quite expensive...