Kitchin island idea
jshar2004
April 26, 2013 in Design Dilemma
Doing a full kitchen renovation. The 25" perimeter is the counter/cabinets. I'm still undecided on how long the left side will extend down to. Also, I'm willing to block off the pantry if it means a good island idea.

It's a big kitchen (around 20' x 10') and i'd like to include an island/dining area with 42" b/w the perimeter and island, and am looking for some ideas. A rough idea I came up with is also attached.

Not a great pic as it's the first floorplan I've ever made. I appreciate the help!!
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OnePlan
hi ! you would need to shorten the run on the left wall to get that shape island in ! but having L shape bar area is great for chatting ! more social than a straight line ! so you are on the right track !
kind regards
Karen
OnePlan
freelance remote space and CAD planner
one.plan@virgin.net
0 Likes   April 27, 2013 at 12:19AM
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Dytecture
Personally I would keep the island a more 'regular' shape.
0 Likes   April 27, 2013 at 5:51AM
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Wyland Interior Design Center
You will need a bare minimum of 8" overhang for knee space at the the barstool area. Have you figured that in?
0 Likes   April 27, 2013 at 6:02AM
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jshar2004
yes I assume I can get cabinets in and still have enough knee space. I've seen it done on 25" kitchen islands like this one.:



Thanks for the responses guys. Any more opinions on L-shape vs rectangle? With a rectangle shape, it would be a narrow island without a proper dining option.
0 Likes   April 27, 2013 at 9:58AM
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Richard Schneider Kitchen Designer
I think the L-shape Island makes it to narrow (see pic)
If there's no build in appliances in the Island, you can consider to shorten the cabinets with 10" so you have enough knee space.
0 Likes   April 27, 2013 at 10:25AM
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Wyland Interior Design Center
The average overhang in front of a 24" island cabinet should be 1-1/4" to 1-1/2" on each side which would equal 27" wide. You can always have a custom depth island cabinet made to accommodate the 25" wide depth. That cabinet would need to be made at 22-1/2" deep to 22" deep, which you will have additional upcharges to modify it to that size. However, most cabinet companies will offer a smaller depth island cabinet at 21" deep that you may want to consider.

I see a problem with the distance between the wall and island counter on the right side that says 39" wide. According to kitchen guide lines you will need 65" of clearance to allow the 36" walkway distance plus the distance the barstool takes up when someone is sitting on it. I find my of my client's often forget about the required distances that they need around things to make their kitchen functional and working kitchens, when I'm designing their kitchen.

You also want to make sure that you have 36" wide distance on the otherside from island corner on the left, going across at an angle to perimeter kitchen counter. It looks like it could be smaller than that.
0 Likes   April 27, 2013 at 10:36AM
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jshar2004
Thanks for the replies!

-We will have only 1-2 cabinets on the top side of the island so hopefully seats can fit under easily for the rest of it
-I am unclear on what you mean by 65" clearance. 39" should be enough between island and wall, right?
-Yes the left wall is still unclear. The fridge will be on the bottom of the left wall so we will have to make sure there is enough clearance between the open fridge and the corners of the L-island.
-There will not be any built in appliances on the island, so i'll have to check the cabinet depth options.

If not L-shape, then is the only other option to remove the 'L' portion that extends to the left and just have a rectangle that ends there?
0 Likes   April 27, 2013 at 6:11PM
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Dullea and Associates Inc.
Your kitchen is narrow so I think the 'L' works. Have you considered making the seating portion of the 'L' 42" high and the long straight part 36" high? The 'L' shape provides adequate room to walk around the island, get in and out of the pantry without interferring with someone seated at the island, and provides good working/socializing spaces.

It would be helpful to know where you intend to put appliances and your sink. This could have a tremendous impact on the design of the island.
0 Likes   April 27, 2013 at 6:54PM
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jshar2004
Here is the location of my appliances. Only problem I see is the fridge, but I'd still like an L-shape if it doesn't hinder walking space.

Didn't consider the height much yet, but I was hoping for something a bit higher than traditional dining tables with traditional chairs. But not high enough that you need tall bar stools. I'd like to use stools that you can push under the island when not in use.
0 Likes   April 27, 2013 at 7:30PM
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Dullea and Associates Inc.
You will want to make sure you have at least 3 feet between the corner of island and the corner of the refrigerator cabinet.
0 Likes   April 27, 2013 at 7:39PM
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jshar2004
duly noted. thanks!
0 Likes   April 28, 2013 at 2:00PM
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Wyland Interior Design Center
You asked “I am unclear on what you mean by 65” clearance. 39” should be enough between island and wall right?” Answer: Guide lines set forth by NKBA (National Kitchen and Bath Association) - "In a seating area, 36” of clearance should be allowed from counter/ table edge to any wall/ obstruction behind it if no traffic will pass behind a seated diner. If there is a walkway behind the seating area, 65” of clearance, total, including the walkway, should be allowed between the seating area and any wall or obstruction". With that said, it seems that side of the island would be a major traffic lane from living room and family room to garage. If someone is sitting in the barstool, the other person will be walking through kitchen between the REF and island. Otherwise the person on the barstool will need to get off it and move out of the way to let the person by.

Hey, is there a possibility that you can open the wall that you have labeled “family room”? Push it back more to open it up to the family room? This would allow more space behind the barstool. Another option would be to eliminate the barstool on that side.

I’m also concerned with the distance from REF and island, depending on your REF model. I can not stress enough to people to read the manufacturer’s specifications to see exactly how much space is required in front of the REF. Typically I like a minimum of 48” from REF to island, but this can vary from REF to REF. You need enough room for REF doors to open properly without hitting island, as well as room for a person to stand in front of REF. I would recommend looking at counter depth REF or french door REF to allow you more space in front of REF to island. There are several on the market that might be able to work at the 42" distance.

The "L-shape" island can still work, but just be aware of the required distances needed.
0 Likes   April 28, 2013 at 2:04PM
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jshar2004
thanks a lot for clarifying!

Actually the 'wall' to the family room is actually an opening to the family room - I just don't know how to draw floor plans! So that barstool on the right should work. But I will have to consider the business of the right-side foot traffic.

The small leg of the L would definitely have to be shortened as necessary to accommodate the 42" clearance.

I will also look into counter depth (25" deep?) refrigerators.

Thanks!
0 Likes   April 28, 2013 at 7:45PM
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jshar2004
If the fridge becomes a problem, I can always move it next to the garage door and have it be just plain counter/cabinet space (or clear off that area altogether). If I remove it, then I guess a square shape island would be more appropriate. Am I moving in the right direction here?
0 Likes   April 28, 2013 at 8:07PM
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Wyland Interior Design Center
Great! If there isn't a wall between the family room and kitchen, you should be okay if there is enough room for them to walk around.

When you go to look for a REF take your drawing with you to voice your concerns with the space between it and the island. They should be able to find you one that will work. I like the REF where you had it better than it floating in the room by itself. I think your best bet is to find a counter depth REF. If there isn't one that will work, then I would revisit REF location. Keep us posted. Good Luck!
0 Likes   April 28, 2013 at 8:29PM
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jshar2004
Thanks for the positive support. It looks like we have decided to switch around the appliances in a different way prevent the fridge from blocking the walkways. I don't see a downside in this new layout and I have redone the floorplan with an L-island to ensure the right clearance. What do you think?
0 Likes   April 30, 2013 at 12:06PM
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Wyland Interior Design Center
You have the REF drawn in the corner, with a cabinet in front and to the side? I'm confused to how you were planning on having it in the corner. Were you thinking on having the REF door swing open like this?
0 Likes   April 30, 2013 at 6:41PM
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Wyland Interior Design Center
If so, will the REF be too close to the sink? It is hard to tell how much room you have from your drawing.
0 Likes   April 30, 2013 at 6:43PM
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jshar2004
Sorry for the vague drawing, but yes, there will be some room between the sink and the REF. Also, yes there is no cabinets in front of the fridge. Here is the current layout that we plan to keep (this is before renovation).
0 Likes   May 2, 2013 at 11:20AM
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jshar2004
The next part is how to setup the cabinets for the island. If I go with a setup like in the pic (15" overhang for all seating areas), I'd have to have a leg on the bottom left corner and a couple brackets/corbels.

Any other way to set this up in order to seat 5?
0 Likes   May 4, 2013 at 11:14AM
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jshar2004
another option is a rounded bottom which would fit...what do you guys think???
0 Likes   May 8, 2013 at 12:18PM
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