I need advice on using cafe doors for a walk-in closet.
kroze
July 30, 2013 in Design Dilemma
The closet is somewhat triangular in shape and too awkward for a normal door. I don't particularly like pocket doors because they tend to be left open perpetually. Cafe doors seem to be the way to go but I don't have experience with them. I need to know the good, bad and ugly on them.
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suzanne_m
With Kroze permission, I am attaching the plan showing the shape and dimensions of her closet:
July 30, 2013 at 11:47am   
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kroze
Thank you Suzanne.
July 30, 2013 at 11:52am   
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michee627
You are right about the pocket door - perpetually open. However, do you really care if it is in your bedroom? If you are having a party you will likely remember to close it otherwise... ok so my walk in has a pocket door and I love it (and leave it open mostly). :) I think your solution is a good compromise... if you are doing built ins, the door won't be so much deeper than the built in as to be obtrusive probably. Although if you would leave the pocket open you'll probably leave those open too... so you might measure and make sure they aren't just in the way!
July 30, 2013 at 12:08pm   
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kroze
hmmm...... you may be right. I hear that you can just nudge the cafe doors and they close automatically. That is what captured my interest. Yes, I am actually using pocket doors for another closet, but this closet sits at the entrance to the bedroom. I'm a neat freak and this would drive me crazy if my husband's closet door was always open. It is not like he shares my neat fetish..... : )
July 30, 2013 at 12:23pm   
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michee627
someone will tell me it is always wrong but what if they opened out? Cause he's not gonna nudge them if he is walking out of the closet. He's gonna stop, turn around, and pull them shut when he walks out (right-sure he will). But YOU might nudge them if you are walking by the closet? OR someone probably makes an automatic sensor door so when you pass through it slides shut... ;) kidding of course.
July 30, 2013 at 12:36pm   
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kroze
: ) I think the idea is that they swing either way but can lock into the open position. I'm not sure how much of a nudge is required to close them. It won't be easy teaching an old codger a new habit!
July 30, 2013 at 12:43pm   
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michee627
ah - I get it now. tell him the alternative is the auto sensing slider and see how fast he agrees to close it !!! :) hee hee
July 30, 2013 at 12:44pm   
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kroze
That would be cute. But at our age it is difficult to remember where we put the closet some days! :)
July 30, 2013 at 12:46pm   
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bumblebee728
Have you considered sliding barn doors?
July 30, 2013 at 12:52pm     
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kroze
Nice, but I don't think I have room for it.

Suzanne, do I have room? (Suzanne is my designer)
July 30, 2013 at 1:01pm     
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bumblebee728
You would probably have to do the double (narrower ) doors with the rod across the length of the top.
July 30, 2013 at 1:08pm   
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kroze
The more I meditate upon your barn doors the more I like them! I've gotta find a way to make them work.

I'm not sure they suit my furnishings in that room. I have ball and claw furniture with carved four post bed and night stands.... and a matching wall table and desk and chair. It is a bit prim for a barn door....? But I would love to have some form of that door. Do they have more "dressy" versions?
July 30, 2013 at 1:17pm   
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R Robulock
I LOVE these barn doors! I want to follow this post because I am looking to do the same for our master closet bedroom but find the measurements do not fit, If we open the master closet barn door then it will be in the way of the entry door to the bedroom on one side and the other side will not allow the door to completely open because the wall ends. I can't wait to see all the ideas ppl will come up with! Good luck
July 30, 2013 at 1:17pm   
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michee627
Barn doors are a great idea! I did something like that on my entertainment center to cover up the tv - using a library ladder style rod and a "barn door". Much better than cafe if it suits your style. I ended up with these guys http://www.rollinglibraryladderkits.com/page/479361581
July 30, 2013 at 1:39pm   
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kroze
Thanks for the link michee. I don't find much of a selection there. Seems to be mostly hardware......

Am I not finding the catalogue of pics?
July 30, 2013 at 1:51pm   
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suzanne_m
Kroze, yes you have room to do it on your angled closet. You can have 2 x 15 in. doors. One one each side. There are many style. You can browse on houzz for barn doors in bedrooms. There are different hardwares too. I wonder if anyone knows if we can get hardware on those doors where when we push or pull on one door, the other door moves at the same time.
July 30, 2013 at 1:53pm   
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bumblebee728
Yes Kroze, original barn doors can be used, or a more plain or fancy type. It's a matter of the rod, hardware and door material. I'm so glad you like the idea. I absolutely love them for their architectural interest! And the space they save not having a swinging door.
July 30, 2013 at 1:55pm   
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michee627
yes - this is the hardware and you get any slab door that you want to hang on it. In my case I had them custom made to size but in your case an standard door (not predrilled for a knob) you want to buy would work. You pick the door style and then mount it with the hardware. I assumed you are hanging it outside the closet not inside, so you don't take up storage inside and you can close it on your way by outside.
July 30, 2013 at 1:56pm     
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kroze
Excellent point. Have a single control for both doors!

How do you like them Suzanne? Would you chose them for your room?
July 30, 2013 at 1:57pm   
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kroze
Yes michee, the doors would be on the outside. They would be sort of an exclamation point on the room!
July 30, 2013 at 1:58pm   
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kroze
bumblebee, you are a dear for bringing us that idea! We all seem to love it. I would never have thought of doing this without your post.
July 30, 2013 at 2:00pm     
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michee627
go bumblebee! kroze, I was searching for bathroom pocket door hardware and ran across a bunch of barn door pics on houzz so you should take a look there too!
July 30, 2013 at 2:01pm     
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michee627
This is what they look like on my cabinet for example
July 30, 2013 at 2:02pm     
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Fred S
Barn doors have all the same problems as the double pocket door. The rollers are too close together on the top to get them adjusted properly, and they will bind because they are too light and narrow. The rollers are only 12" apart on an 80" lever. They will be left open just like a double pocket door, but at least they will look good open.
July 30, 2013 at 2:03pm   
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bumblebee728
A few more to show you different styles:
July 30, 2013 at 2:03pm   
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suzanne_m
Those doors are beautiful. Yes I would love to have one in my house. I am sure we can find something that will suit your decor. I will browse houzz later.
July 30, 2013 at 2:04pm     
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bumblebee728
More:
July 30, 2013 at 2:05pm   
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Fred S
Michae's doors are only 36" long and get pushed from a spot close to the rail. This will not be the case on a full length door.
July 30, 2013 at 2:08pm   
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bumblebee728
More:
July 30, 2013 at 2:08pm   
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bumblebee728
Three more: I know you can look them up too, but I had fun finding them:)
July 30, 2013 at 2:10pm   
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michee627
with two doors instead of one wider door you may have the issue of one being narrow enough to completely swing IN the doorway which would be a problem (if you have small kids that is more of a worry)
July 30, 2013 at 2:10pm   
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Fred S
I think a 24" wide door is as skinny as I would venture on a full height barn door.
July 30, 2013 at 2:11pm   
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bumblebee728
I'm really happy you like them, I hope it works out!
July 30, 2013 at 2:18pm   
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kroze
Thanks bumblebee for the parade of doors. It was fun!

I don't have little kids, but I have little grandkids...... who shouldn't be in Grammy's bedroom!
July 30, 2013 at 2:18pm     
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kroze
Fred you may be right, I don't know. It would probably be more practical to do the cafe doors...... but the barn doors are so much fun!
July 30, 2013 at 2:20pm   
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bumblebee728
Michee, I don't think that's a worry about the door sliding in because they would both be connected to the one rod straight across the top. Also i imagine there would be a stop at the center to stop each inside edge of each door from crossing the center of the opening.
July 30, 2013 at 2:23pm   
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kroze
Would it be better to chose heavier doors if they are small in width?
July 30, 2013 at 2:25pm   
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bumblebee728
Kroze, if there's not enough room at the closet( because of allowed width of doors), maybe you'd be able to try it somewhere else in your home, single or double.
July 30, 2013 at 2:26pm   
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bumblebee728
Just to cover all bases, another idea( although it would entail a little construction): could you move the opening of your closet further to one side? Then you could use a single 'barn' door.
July 30, 2013 at 2:31pm   
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kroze
Yes, you are right bumblebee, I could. However, I have room for small doors on this closet. The question is whether or not smaller doors work as well as larger ones.
July 30, 2013 at 2:32pm   
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kroze
But I like the double door look better than the single door.
July 30, 2013 at 2:33pm   
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kroze
No need to worry about construction, bumblebee. The closet hasn't even been built yet!
July 30, 2013 at 2:34pm   
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Fred S
A heavy ballast built into the bottom of the door and handles set deliberately high would help a lot, but it might take some experimentation or someone with the experience of a few very narrow doors under their belt.
July 30, 2013 at 2:34pm   
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michee627
I would think that the challenge with two doors is that if you put a stop in the center on the floor it will be a trip hazard when you go in and out. You will have guides in front of the wall part but with a door narrower than the doorway you could put one of them in the center, push the bottom in and it might be able to swing right off and fall on your head.

I seem to remember that they do make tracks that you put inset in the floor but that may be a pain to keep clean. In a typical one door config, it is generally wider than the doorway so you don't have that issue. I'm not sure kroze has the space for one door on either side unfortunately.

options I can think of are
1. track inset in the floor
2. scoot the doorway one way or the other and do a single door (construction but not really that big a deal, just drywall and studs not as if it is weight bearing I'm assuming)
3. look for a different contraption than the one I'm familiar with to hang the door. One that actually "close" hooks to the rail so that it can't be tipped/pulled off (that might very well exist). Then I wouldn't really worry about it swinging in.

I love love love the idea but I wouldn't do it unless you have a solution so that someone can't push the bottom of the door and have the whole thing come down. There ARE a lot of pics with two doors here so maybe their hardware has a solution (or they didn't worry about it)
July 30, 2013 at 2:40pm   
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Fred S
If you move cafe doors flush to the bedroom side of the opening, they will invade the closet less and will not stay in the open position when pushed in. They will only stay in the open position when swung outward, and will swing to a closed position with just a nudge. Yes, I know barn doors are cool.
July 30, 2013 at 2:44pm     
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kroze
michee, how does it work with an inset track in the door? It leaves no place for the door to slide out of the way.

As I said before, don't worry about construction on this door. The closet has not yet been built and will not bear weight.
July 30, 2013 at 2:45pm   
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bumblebee728
Lol, that solves that problem since it hasn't been built yet! But you like the double doors better. Hmmm, I guess though the width of the wall will have to stay the same. Fred will be better at telling us if the smaller width of the doors could work, like you said, maybe if they're heavier, but I'm not sure it will have the same visual effect if they're too narrow.
July 30, 2013 at 2:45pm   
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kroze
Thanks Fred. You make a good point about keeping the doors flush with the bedroom side. If I opt for those cafe doors, I will definitely consider that way of installation.
July 30, 2013 at 2:47pm   
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bumblebee728
I think the stop would be at the top on the rod, not on the floor.
July 30, 2013 at 2:48pm   
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kroze
Are 15 inch doors too small for this?
July 30, 2013 at 2:48pm   
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kroze
How could they tilt inward if they don't clear the wall edge?
July 30, 2013 at 2:50pm   
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michee627
sorry - I probably said it wrong. I'll see if I can find an example of the hardware and post it here. it seems like we found hardware that you inset into the floor UNDER the door and then there is a wheel or guide or something on the bottom of the door (underneath it) that runs in the track. that way when the door is open the track is flush with the floor and you don't have anything to trip on. it eliminates wobble and/or swing. As long as your floor isn't concrete or tile that should be reasonably do-able to install.

If you go with cafe doors I'm with fred on the install.
July 30, 2013 at 2:51pm     
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Fred S
I think an appropriate track can be found, but if you have ever tried to operate a sticky sliding glass door, you will understand the binding issue on such a narrow door. If you look hard enough, you may be able to find a retail solution to this, but as far as I know, it would be an expensive custom fix.
July 30, 2013 at 2:53pm   
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kroze
hmmm...... looks like my bubble may burst on this one.....

I certainly don't want to have a constant problem door! Maybe I can find some cool cafe doors.....
July 30, 2013 at 2:56pm   
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michee627
ok - I looked around a little and I would suggest that your best bet is to go on that site or on this one http://www.barndoorhardware.com/stainless-steel-hardware/bottom-rolling-hardware/ and they allow you to make inquiries. the people I put (above) were very responsive and answered all of my questions. They are the experts and should be able to give you guidance.
July 30, 2013 at 2:58pm   
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Fred S
I don't think a bottom track would be necessary. I believe it may actually add to the binding dilemma. There should be a way to put stops on the upper track to avoid any issues. A roller on the bottom of the wall behind the overlap of the door and opening will keep the door from scraping the wall or swinging into the opening.
July 30, 2013 at 3:01pm   
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kroze
Thanks michee, that link is excellent and looks like a real possibility for my dilemma. I am thinking that I may put down hardwood floors in that room and closet. Wonder if that would be easy to install a track on. Probably not.
July 30, 2013 at 3:03pm   
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kroze
So Fred, are you now saying that it would work with these little doors?
July 30, 2013 at 3:04pm   
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Fred S
I don't mean to burst your bubble, just don't settle for a second rate system. Do the research and get one that will work smoothly if it is out there.
July 30, 2013 at 3:05pm     
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Fred S
I think there are way more tracks out there that will not work than will. I am just telling you what to look for if you can find it. The suggestion to contact the company is a good start.
July 30, 2013 at 3:08pm   
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michee627
I can tell you that our system is awesome... the doors are 30" wide and 60" high so they are obviously a different dimension. Totally smooth rolling. Id defer to the people at those sites on install. they were excellent and knowledgeable and perfectly willing to talk me through options.
July 30, 2013 at 3:11pm     
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bumblebee728
These are pretty narrow, especially the first pair. The second photo shows the stop on the rod at the top.
July 30, 2013 at 3:14pm   
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kroze
I have written to the link michee gave us and requested their opinion on this door.
July 30, 2013 at 3:16pm     
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kroze
bumblebee, I really like those long handles on that second pic!
July 30, 2013 at 3:17pm     
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bumblebee728
Me too :)
July 30, 2013 at 3:23pm   
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michee627
I finally figured out what bumblebee is talking about and she? is right. If you put a stop at the top in the center you wont be able to roll it past the stop ergo it wont clear the door frame ergo it can't be tilted and you are golden. I totally forgot those existed because for our application we didnt want to do that. You should be fine without the track, much simpler and no dust catching. but DO confirm it with one of those two.

The first one I mentioned (rolling library kits) is where I got the one for my entertainment center. They were not the cheapest but the quality is awesome. I was going for the look that might have been there when the house was built 90 years ago so the hardware look and quality was really important to me.
July 30, 2013 at 3:26pm     
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Fred S
Yes, it is the ratio that bothers me. Michee's doors are 2/1 while these will be 5.3/1. Roller above and below the track (for instance) would also be of help.
July 30, 2013 at 3:27pm   
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kroze
Thanks michee. I'll take that into consideration as quality is also important to me.
July 30, 2013 at 3:28pm   
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kroze
I'm glad you understand those things Fred. It's Greek to me!
July 30, 2013 at 3:29pm   
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bumblebee728
Hi michee, yes I'm a she :) it's been a lot of fun working on this with all of you, I hope kroze finds exactly what she wants in the closet doors. Kroze, hope you keep us updated as you go along!
July 30, 2013 at 3:35pm   
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kroze
I definitely will. You can see my remodel thread if you are interested in seeing the bigger picture. http://www.houzz.com/discussions/564898#1303181
July 30, 2013 at 3:38pm     
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bumblebee728
Thanks kroze, I'm running out now but I'll be looking it up later! I love remodels, can't wait to see it.
July 30, 2013 at 3:43pm   
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kroze
Just received this response from the barn door website.....

Thank you for contacting us. Other than the door straps being close together, I can't see any reason why the rolling barn doors won't work on your closet. I will be happy to give you a quote. Contact me at 770-329-7159 with any questions.
July 31, 2013 at 10:31am   
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michee627
looks like you will be good. to address fred's point, you might install the doors without hardware, push them manually for awhile and see where you put your hand to easily close/open it, and then add a handle at that height. you can also add support brackets if you need to since the weight is more concentrated on 18" instead of distributed along a wider area. If you have multiple door choices, maybe err on the lighter side. Dont forget to order a guide for the bottom against the wall - there are multiple styles, one of which is where you attach a wheel to the wall that the bottom of the door rolls on. You can see that on the websites. This is all install details IMHO and not a show stopper. I think you are going to have an awesome result
July 31, 2013 at 1:34pm   
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suzanne_m
Kroze, just to be more precise with the measurements: The diagonal wall is 66 3/8 in. wide. So I guess, you could have 2 x 16 in. doors because that uses 64 inches wall. I don't know if you need to reserve more for the hardware.
July 31, 2013 at 1:50pm   
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kroze
Thank you michee. I have been spending hours perusing the barn door sites...... even called one.

My husband thinks we should put the barn door on the bathroom door which is a bit wider... 32 inches and will seldom if ever be closed.

If I do that, I will put the cafe door on the closet.

This is very tedious. There is not a "one stop" shopping place. I don't like the doors on the sites that offer them with hardware. And I am not sure where to go to look for doors.

And I don't know where to begin my search for cafe doors.

Is there a "door" site? I am not having much success. There are all kinds of pictures of doors in magazines, blogs, etc. But finding them for sale is different.
July 31, 2013 at 1:50pm   
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kroze
The hardware alone for the barn doors are going to be over $500...
July 31, 2013 at 1:51pm   
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michee627
yea - the hardware is the art actually.... and it IS expensive. You have to "want it". any big box store or builders supply store can get you a door. Look online at wood doors just like you would for a regular door. When you order it you just have to make sure it comes in the larger size that you would need, and it is a "slab" in other words it is not pre-drilled for a doorknob. There isn't a "barn door" supplier per se (or rather there probably are but you don't need that). I have a friend that did a barn door installation using one of her old doors because her doorway was shorter anyway. You just need a regular old door that is a bit taller than the standard 8'6" door height.
July 31, 2013 at 2:00pm   
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kroze
Okay, that is good advice. The problem I run into is that I was TWO narrow doors..... appox. 16 inches wide.
July 31, 2013 at 2:04pm   
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michee627
for example JeldWen is the brand of several of the doors I used in my house. you can order them through the big box stores (who I have found to be error prone and a pain in my ... neck) or through a supply store (who your contractor designer can probably steer you) http://www.jeld-wen.com/catalog/interior-doors. They aren't the cheapest but they aren't the most expensive. They had doors almost identical to the ones in my original 90 year old home. I just bought some extra tall ones for a closet remodel I'm doing. I got them without predrilling so I could have installed them with barn door hardware (although Im not)
July 31, 2013 at 2:06pm   
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kroze
With barn doors does the width have to be the same as the opening for the door? Could I use larger doors since they run parallel to wall and do not recess into the wall?
July 31, 2013 at 2:06pm   
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michee627
Try finding them under "cafe" doors in taller sizes. Just because they are under "cafe" doesn't mean you have to put hinges on them. It is just the way they organize them by "typical" installation.
July 31, 2013 at 2:08pm   
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michee627
I don't see why not as long as you have wall width to handle the wider door. It would give the doorway the appearance of being wider when closed. You have to have the 32" (or whatever) inches of wall to the right and left to support them when they were open. kind of like hanging curtain panels outside the edges of a window to make it appear bigger.
July 31, 2013 at 2:09pm   
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michee627
ok - I assume bifold doors come as regular doors that you add a hinge to when you install (open up a chat with them and confirm). take a look at this: http://www.jeld-wen.com/catalog/interior-doors/molded/wood-composite/bifold#group=All&model=model1299. There are a thousand options to navigate but any decent builder supply store should be able to help you navigate that. I have had luck with Ace Hardware. I have had bad luck with Lowe's and Home Depot - that is all based on whether you happen to get the one guy who actually knows what he is doing. I have had great luck with the places my contractors have sent me which are more geared to contractor builder supply and have a clue.
July 31, 2013 at 2:15pm   
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kroze
Yes, I had already visited that bi-fold site but thought they would be pre-hinged.
July 31, 2013 at 2:25pm   
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kroze
But I actually need the bi-fold doors for the cabinet in the bathroom.... : )
July 31, 2013 at 2:26pm   
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Fred S
I see the door salesman glazed right over the operation issue and went straight to asking for money. http://www.klein-usa.com/glassofficefronts/unikair-self-xox


Warning: A ratio of maximum 1/3.5 must be kept for the width/height of the door in order to guarantee a good sliding movement.
July 31, 2013 at 2:27pm   
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kroze
What does that mean, Fred? If my door is 80 inches tall, it must be at least 23 inches wide on each side?
July 31, 2013 at 2:31pm   
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Fred S
yes, "to guarantee a good sliding movement" . I have seen some window manufacturers recommend 1/4, but no less. On the bathroom door, it would be not much problem as you don't intend to keep it closed.
How do you intend to finish the corner closet door, paint or stain? Bifold doors work well for cafe doors.
July 31, 2013 at 2:42pm   
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kroze
I intend to paint the closet door. How do bi-folds work for cafe door? I thought cafe doors swing.
July 31, 2013 at 2:47pm   
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kroze
Suzanne, should we make that bathroom doorway larger to accommodate for the ratio needed for barn doors?
July 31, 2013 at 2:50pm   
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Fred S
I go to the contractor store and get the blanks usually, but have also bought them at home depot. Just buy one 30" bifold and take the middle hinges off, then fill the screw holes. The pivot holes in the top and bottom of the doors may need filled with a dowels as well, depending on the hardware.
July 31, 2013 at 2:54pm   
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kroze
No, I don't want the 24 inch doors. That is too big. I will stick with the smaller width and hope there won't be problems. I see them in pictures all the time.
July 31, 2013 at 2:55pm   
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Fred S
The hinges are rarely mortised on a bifold, so they come off very clean.
July 31, 2013 at 2:55pm   
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Fred S
As long as you don't intend to close the bath door constantly, the little annoyance should not be an issue for that location in my opinion. It would only matter on the closet door you want to STAY closed.
July 31, 2013 at 3:00pm   
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kroze
Okay, now I have been looking at cafe doors. I was thinking of full length doors, but selection is limited. Maybe that is why you were looking a separating a bi-fold door.
July 31, 2013 at 3:22pm   
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suzanne_m
Kroze, the problem with enlarging the opening to allow for a bigger door means that you need to make the wall beside the opening smaller. With calculations, if you have an opening of 40 in. you would have 22 in. on each side. So I don't know if these doors need some overlapping but if they do, this would be the most optimal dimensions .i.e. 21 in. doors that overlap one inch on each side of the opening.
July 31, 2013 at 3:23pm   
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kroze
That's okay Suzanne. I have already decided that was a bad idea. I am keeping the smaller doors. Finding the right ones are the problem.
July 31, 2013 at 3:27pm   
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Fred S
Do you have a picture of the style you are wanting?
July 31, 2013 at 3:34pm   
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kroze
No I don't. Still not sure what I want. Something just a little bit different from the ordinary.
July 31, 2013 at 3:37pm   
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suzanne_m
Kroze, it might be too much optimistic but I will mention it anyway:

Are you going to have a cabinet maker or someone good with wood to help you with your project? Since I assume the barn doors are going to be more decorative than functional, do you think he could build the doors that would, without being identical, complement the doors you will have on your vanity. It is just a thought ... maybe it is easier said than done :/
July 31, 2013 at 9:46pm   
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kroze
Oh, that is a great idea Suzanne. Yes I will be working with a professional cabinet maker. I see no reason why he could not do the barn doors! That will probably save a little money!
August 1, 2013 at 5:12am   
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michee627
ok - another question for you kroze... it appears that for the most part in the pictures of barn doors, the doorway is not trimmed out. I'm not sure there is a hard and fast rule there but maybe someone else knows. If you have trim on your other doorways and planned to trim it out, then you should make sure you include that in your door width. In other words, if the door opening is 36" and you have 5" trim on the left and right (as mine do) then your width for the barn doors would actually be 36+10+2(overlap) / 2.... 24" wide. Just a thought. :) My cabinet maker made my "barn doors" but then again, they were on a cabinet. I DO think your cabinet maker might have additional advice/thoughts on the width/ratio discussion so it would be worth asking.
August 1, 2013 at 9:03am   
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michee627
ummm if you are still thinking bathroom door, do you have a separate door for the toilet? thinking about privacy locking. We have a pocket on our bathroom and didn't do a privacy lock because the toilet is in it's own room with it's own lock but just a consideration. Not sure how you lock a barn door :)
August 1, 2013 at 9:06am   
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kroze
Thank you michee. I don't think a facing is required for a barn door. It looks to me like the wall is finished out in drywall only. No problem about a lock. The toilet room has its own door.

I only have a 24 inch clearance on one side of the door, so a 24 inch door would be very tight. We also think that 48 inches is excessive for a bathroom door. It would overpower the room which isn"t that large. The current door is only 32 inches.
August 1, 2013 at 10:18am   
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bumblebee728
Just had a chance to read your other thread. Wow! Just amazing how you all work together, I really enjoyed it. Suzanne's a real trooper! And Fred and Michee too! Gotta run off to work again :( but will be following (when not at work) and hopefully I'll have something to add when I have time to relax and think. Great work everyone! Oh, Kroze, one thing I wanted to tell you- I lived in Texas a long time ago for one year and I had one pair of boots I wore all the time: red leather cowboy boots! Lol! Sounds funny, but I was young and everyone just loved them! Thanks for bringing that memory to mind, wish I still had them, I'd post a picture :)
August 1, 2013 at 10:19am   
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kroze
Thanks bumblebee, I've seen some of those red boots and they are really pretty!

Yes, Suzanne has been my pilot on this project. Don't know what I would have done without her. And Fred and Michee have been a great help also. That is what is so wonderful about houzz. People are so willing to pitch in and get involved to help solve problems. I love it!
August 1, 2013 at 10:24am     
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bumblebee728
I'm 100% sure they'd all say you're a wonderful person to work with too! Grab yourself a pair of those red boots and store them right outside your closet doors, as a decorative element...so they probably don't go with your decor, but you do live in Texas! Maybe you'll even be tempted to wear them someday :). Sorry off topic, but I loved those boots... Ok, I'm gonna go put my nursing clogs on now...
August 1, 2013 at 10:35am     
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michee627
Kroze - great... I was just thinking about it on the way to work and thought... hmm I wonder if you have to worry about trim. so.. bathroom, not closet, two doors, doorway is 32 and you only have 24" on both sides of it. Therefore you are planning two ~17" wide doors hung from the "barn door" rail. Is that right?

Have you pretty much figured out where the door would come from? I did check with my door source (local builder supply) and they said the cafe doors can be ordered without already having the hinge hold pre-installed which would mean no one has to fill anything back in etc. Since they are designed for regular doors you should be able to get them in a size to fit a wider taller doorway and then hang them as a barn door. You could go a little extra wide to help with the potential balance proportion problem Fred brought up.

Should we stop talking about it now?

Here's a curve ball - Shoji Screens
August 1, 2013 at 12:31pm   
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kroze
That is all correct michee except I am still open to purchasing the split doors if I could find nice ones on the open market. Fortunately that decision can be delayed. Everything I find is too large or would require custom production. That runs up the cost considerably, so my backup plan is have the cabinet man make them. He may not be crazy about that idea..... out of his comfort zone. : )
August 1, 2013 at 12:48pm   
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michee627
I'd find a builders supply by you that is not Home Depot or Lowes (your contractor or cabinet guy should know some to recommend). I think you will find that they can help you order one, using the "cafe" style door but ordering it without having the hinges pre installed or "drilled". My source is local to me so they probably wouldn't do you any good. If you order the two cafe doors sized as they would be to fit a 36" wide door that is 7' tall they would be about the right size. Of course find out what sizes they come in but I'd try that to avoid a total custom solution. You could also find a source by searching by your zip code for dealers of jeld-wen doors which would get you to the builders supply places (who of course would sell more than Jeld-Wen).
August 1, 2013 at 12:57pm   
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Fred S
So, back to the corner closet door. Suzanne made the door wall long enough to accommodate a pocket door. If the two foot walls were 3" longer, pushing the angle wall out a bit more, the cafe doors would have a bit more room to swing inward.
August 1, 2013 at 12:58pm   
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Fred S
36" door for closet is probably overkill, but do realize that the cafe doors will still use up 2" on each side of the opening even when open, so adjust accordingly. I think 30" would be fine. When you decide on a door style for the closet, I may be able to give you more pointers in the right direction.
August 1, 2013 at 1:06pm   
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michee627
sorry fred - I was actually talking about the bathroom door... which if it is 32" you would want an extra 1-2" on both sides for the barn style which would be 34-36"... or, perhaps I'm confused as is often the case! :) My supplier said it was no problem to order the cafe doors but have them not pre-hinged so if you just ordered them for a slightly bigger door then voila you have a barn door. Poor kroze is probably tired of hearing from me at this point.
August 1, 2013 at 1:09pm   
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kroze
Okay, I am not thinking of customizing the cafe doors. I can make the opening to accommodate a standard sized cafe door I think....? The cabinet man might make the barn door, but not the cafe door. I will have to find something acceptable in the open market. At this point I am beginning to be open to a plain door because the focus will be on the barn door. I'm not good at door shopping..... quickly get bored! :)

I agree Fred, 36 inch closet door is overkill ..! 30 sounds great to me. And I do appreciate you help on this one. Many thanks.
August 1, 2013 at 1:17pm   
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kroze
We were typing at the same time michee. I am NOT tired of hearing from you. Your voice is music to my ears, as is Fred's and Suzanne's.
August 1, 2013 at 1:18pm     
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michee627
:)
August 1, 2013 at 1:22pm     
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Fred S
Sometimes I get lost or behind when everybody types at once. ;) All part of the fun.
August 1, 2013 at 1:26pm     
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suzanne_m
This is the current status of this closet with the planned built-in in it. The measurements may be off by 1/8 of an inch. My software does not like it too much when I try to put angled walls. This drawing shows that a centered 30 in. cafe double door that is fully swings touches the clothes on the rod. This may make the clothes fall from their hangers. So there are few solutions:

- Different angle for the angled wall
- Smaller door
- Door not centered
- Kroze husband pay attention not to swing the door too too much or else pick up the clothes on the floor

There is always the option where there is only one very normal door that swings outward only.
August 1, 2013 at 2:55pm   
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kroze
hmmm........ how about making the closet a bit deeper? Wall 19 and 22 would be longer.
August 1, 2013 at 2:58pm   
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michee627
couldn't the cafe doors swing out? sorry if you already explained that
August 1, 2013 at 2:59pm   
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kroze
michee, I think that would be a nuisance for my husband. When you get old and spoiled, old dogs don't like new dynamics in their lives! Having to pull open the door incessantly gets old.
August 1, 2013 at 3:04pm   
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Fred S
Cafe doors swing both ways. If you make them flush to the outside, they only stick into the closet 9.5" past the trim when pushed in. I generally push one in and then grab the other and swing it out.
August 1, 2013 at 3:06pm   
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kroze
hmmm..... that is interesting Fred. Why do you do that? Why not push them both the same direction?
August 1, 2013 at 3:10pm   
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suzanne_m
I will draw another later where I will change the angle of the wall. This will involve to make the wall 22 a bit longer and the wall 19 a bit shorter.
August 1, 2013 at 3:11pm   
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kroze
Okay, that works for me.
August 1, 2013 at 3:14pm   
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Fred S
When I want something that will be behind the door when opened in. Also, in a tight space it is easier to let one side swing by you to close than two. Third, because it seams to get more light in and is easier than turning on a light switch. Maybe just a quirk I developed with those doors on a closet? :)
August 1, 2013 at 3:18pm   
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Fred S
For the cafe doors to "stick" open in both directions, the pivot has to be in the center of the jamb. It would then stick out 12" in either direction when open.
August 1, 2013 at 3:25pm   
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michee627
I keep forgetting they swing both ways. so to speak.
August 1, 2013 at 3:25pm   
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kroze
Don't want it to stick open to the outside... : )
August 1, 2013 at 4:03pm   
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Fred S
Hmm, I wouldn't want them to stick open to the inside, because you have to go back in to unstick them. It seems easier to me to bump them closed from the outside than have them chasing your heals on the way out from the inside. As long as you can completely pass through them from either direction normally (enough standing room in the closet), it won't matter much because the doors won't swing so far open to catch on the stay open bump.
August 1, 2013 at 4:17pm   
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kroze
Oh, it is good to know that. You probably have to make a point of pushing them far enough to stay. The casual walk through won't do it. I like that. So it doesn't matter if they swing both ways if that is the case.
August 1, 2013 at 5:01pm   
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Fred S
Yes, And if they keep getting left open, you can always cut the hard nylon nub off that makes them stay ;) hahahaha!
August 1, 2013 at 5:07pm   
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kroze
hee hee hee !! Love it!
August 1, 2013 at 5:11pm   
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suzanne_m
Here, I have changed the angle of the diagonal closet. Kroze, just a bit of warning: my software does not like to draw in diagonal so the precision is not 100% but it is the closest I could do.
August 1, 2013 at 7:32pm   
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kroze
Don't worry about the preciseness Suzanne. I don't think it matters that much. I really appreciate the new workup.

As I sit and ponder the drawing I cannot help but wonder if it might have been better to put the hanging rods on the other wall and put the chest and shelves on the back wall. The reason I say that is because it would make the room open up sooner upon entry and appear to be larger.... ? That 2' 4" wall affects the optics. What do you think?
August 2, 2013 at 5:44am   
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michee627
I think that the way you have it you mostly are going to look in the corner which will be the same regardless... I might suggest that you put a shelf above the double rods (you may already have planned that) and that in the corner instead of a double you do a single and put your long dresses/coats that you rarely use back there. It will be kind of a dead corner from an access perspective anyway... I did something like that in our walk in, I did one rod for dress height with shelves above it and my dresses and dress shoes went there - in the corner. The dress shoes are in clear boxes so they stay organized and neat but are out of the way. Not to revert to the pocket door conversation but you know you might have better storage and clearance options if you weren't fighting the door.
August 2, 2013 at 7:38am   
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kroze
Many thanks michee. I won't be using that closet. It will be my husbands and he has nothing long to hang except an overcoat which we keep in the coat closet in the foyer.

Since I already have a wall beside the bedroom entry door, I can see how if affects the aesthetics. That wall is currently 36 inches and has a regular door into a narrow closet. You cannot see inside the room until you take a big step into the room. That is what I am trying to avoid.

A pocket door is always an option down the list, but I know from experience that it would never be closed. That is what I am trying to avoid with the cafe doors and I think it will be worth it.
August 2, 2013 at 8:11am   
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bumblebee728
Hi everyone! I'm trying to follow the diagram, but I'm on my iPhone and a small portion of the left side is cut off. I can see Wall 4=6'3". Could you tell me the measurement of the long wall to the left? And the distance from the corner (of left wall and wall 4) to the center of the door wall? I mean what that distance would be from that corner to the doors if they were already in and closed.
August 2, 2013 at 8:33am   
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kroze
The dimension on wall 12 does not accurately reflect the closet wall because it is measuring a room on the other side of the wall. The actual length of that wall on the closet side is 68 inches minus the thickness of a new wall. Does that make sense?

Wall 4 is 75 inches minus the thickness of one wall. I don't know how to answer the last question.
August 2, 2013 at 8:41am   
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kroze
My ceramic tile selection thread has become very interesting with some innovative new self cleaning tiles.
http://www.houzz.com/discussions/588124#1314008
August 2, 2013 at 8:46am   
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bumblebee728
I'm trying to figure out if you could put in corner shelves almost up to the ceiling for more storage. And then flanking them with narrow built-ins (drawers) on either side. Upper and lower rods on each side of them. These 4 rods would be far to the left and far to the right in the closet, 2+2, 1 high and 1 below since your husband doesn't need space for long garments. This way you'll be looking at shelves and built-ins instead of clothes hanging on a rod when door is left open. Please forgive me if this scenario was already shot down, I read all the posts but don't remember the exact details.
August 2, 2013 at 9:18am   
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suzanne_m
Bumblebee728, the left wall is 5'-4".

Kroze, if your husband is ok to have 5'-4" lentgh of rod instead of 5'-11" then I can easily change the shape of the closet so the 2'-0" at the entrance of your master bedroom.

Michee627, if you are interested to see what the whole master ensuite looks like, you can go on this discussion: http://www.houzz.com/discussions/564898#1314125
August 2, 2013 at 9:33am   
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kroze
Thank you so much Suzanne. My husband is totally okay with less hanging space.
August 2, 2013 at 9:40am   
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suzanne_m
Have you asked him? :))
August 2, 2013 at 9:43am   
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kroze
Bumblebee, that sound like a great option to me. Suzanne, what do you think? Will that help us in any way?
August 2, 2013 at 9:43am   
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kroze
Suzanne, he currently has a tiny section of our joint closet. Anything will be a great improvement for him.. : ))
August 2, 2013 at 9:44am   
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michee627
Thank Suzanne!
August 2, 2013 at 9:45am     
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suzanne_m
Bumblebee, I think that is a great option. I am working on it right now. I will show you soon. It might allow me to make the 2'-4" wall shorter too.

Kroze, that would make him not have to look at the 2'-4" when he enters the bedroom, too.
August 2, 2013 at 9:54am   
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bumblebee728
Thanks Suzanne, do you think the plan I posted a few minutes ago is viable? I'm thinking the 4 rods can be approximately 2 ft. + long each (8ft.+ total). Going high with the corner shelves and narrow built-ins adds a lot of storage. There should also still be room for a high shelf all the way around the closet for things not used on a regular basis. Let me know if I'm off base here. Kroze, what do you think? I'm also thinking the 2'4" wall could be brought down a bit, which will make the door wall slightly longer.
August 2, 2013 at 9:56am   
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bumblebee728
Lol, Kroze, I was writing my last post while your's came in.
August 2, 2013 at 9:57am   
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bumblebee728
If there's room, ( I'm not sure of height), the floor space under the rods could also have a low shelf approximately 7" off the floor, which would double shoe space. I have a built-in shelf (wood) like that which is actually removable so I can clean under it. It just sits on edges 7" above the floor. In your case the 'edges' would be attached to the walls and built-in drawers.
August 2, 2013 at 10:04am   
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kroze
I like it bumblebee. I had planned to have a built up ledge under the hanging clothes anyway. I think it makes things look much more customized. An extra shelf above that would be fine. This is all about maximizing space!!!
August 2, 2013 at 10:09am   
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kroze
BTW, the ceiling in that closet is about 15 feet high!!!
August 2, 2013 at 10:09am   
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suzanne_m
It means that we can make the top shelf as high as your husband can reach.
August 2, 2013 at 10:14am   
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bumblebee728
Re-thinking: for this configuration, with the rods on the far left and far right- I'm thinking you'll need 2'6" on each short wall to have depth enough for hangers to clear.
August 2, 2013 at 10:19am   
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bumblebee728
Whoa,15 ft. high?! You can have a lot of tall storage in there, I guess not to the ceiling, but as high as 10' or so anyway. Just need to have a sturdy stool available! And whatever's up there would not be seen when the door is open until you're in the closet because of the wall space above the door wall.
August 2, 2013 at 10:26am   
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bumblebee728
Suzanne, I'm sorry, I meant to say your post came in while I was writing mine before. :)
August 2, 2013 at 10:30am   
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bumblebee728
Oh gosh, I wish I could do diagrams like Suzanne does, hope I'm not being confusing.
August 2, 2013 at 10:33am   
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kroze
You are not confusing at all bumblebee. I can conceptualize and follow your ideas. I would never have thought of that arrangement. Thanks!
August 2, 2013 at 10:43am   
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bumblebee728
You're welcome! Darn! Wish I could stay on with you all right now, but off to work again!
August 2, 2013 at 11:04am   
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suzanne_m
Diagonal closet with 2'-1/8 wall at the entrance of the bedroom:
August 2, 2013 at 11:48am   
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suzanne_m
You are right bumblebee, it can go up to 10 ft high if there is place to store a little stool.
August 2, 2013 at 11:55am   
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suzanne_m
The shoes storage below the rod is a good idea if Mr. K have enough room to bend and reach them. I was thinking that the 7" high shelf could be between the 2 rods, let say 41" above the floor so he would not need to bend but I am just afraid that the sand from his shoes fall on his clothes below when Mr. K grabs them or put them away.

Kroze, is your first name spelled Kaye? I don't know if your husband likes to be refer to Mr. K. but that is how I will call him until I know his first name.
August 2, 2013 at 12:08pm   
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kroze
Thanks Suzanne. Yes my name is Kaye and my husband is Gene.

A shelf between the rods sounds good if not too deep. Don't want to obstruct the view and accessibility of the lower rack.

Are you going to make a stab at bumblebee's design? If it is too much trouble, I completely understand. You have gone far beyond the extra mile with me already... : )
August 2, 2013 at 12:31pm   
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kroze
It looks like moving the rod to the other wall did not end up making much difference in the wall by the bedroom door.. : (
August 2, 2013 at 12:33pm   
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suzanne_m
Your wall will be 4 in. shorter. It represents 16% less than what it would be if you have the rod on the long wall. You would need to decide it this is worth having 7 in. less in rod's space.

At first when you look at the drawing, you could think that I can make that entrance wall shorter but the thing is that you need a bit of space in front of the shelf otherwise it will be hard to take out or placed the the folded clothes on the shelves. Also, the shorter I make that wall, the more acute is the angle and the longer is that angled wall. The longer is the angled wall means that the door has to be placed more towards the left to keep it in centered to that wall.
August 2, 2013 at 12:43pm   
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suzanne_m
Kroze, I could try to draw what bumblee is suggesting but I would like to have kind of a rough sketch before, I am not sure I followed everything ... I realized that I said that it was a great idea but I thought I was responding to the idea of placing the rod on the other wall. My bad.
August 2, 2013 at 12:51pm   
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kroze
Okay, don't worry. I understand your dilemma with the wall lengths. I think the extra length of the shelves is not necessary, as it is easy enough to move the door out of the way. Not a big deal in my book. I would rather have that extra space in the chest. hmmmm... is that shelf dimension correct? Is it 1/ 10" wide or 2' 3" ? It looks wider than the chest but the dimensions look odd.
August 2, 2013 at 1:25pm   
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suzanne_m
I think a 16" D x 8" H shelf could work for the shoes but I can't say for sure. I guess it would be something you would have to try to see if it works. Also, you would need to check about the height of the second pole, would you or Gene reach it if there is a shelf in between. If you find that even a 12" high shelf could work then another option could be to have a 15" D x 12" H shelf instead and that would be used for shirts instead of shoes. This would free some space in the corner for shoes.
August 2, 2013 at 1:52pm   
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suzanne_m
Yes, I have a typo mistake on my last drawing. I meant to write 1'-10" x 1"-3". Thanks for notice it, I will correct it in the next drawing.
August 2, 2013 at 1:55pm   
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PRO
OnePlan
Suzanne - this one might whet your appetite ... http://www.houzz.com/discussions/589334/Two-tiny-bedrooms-and-bathrooms
August 2, 2013 at 1:56pm   
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kroze
Oh no..... well, I understand if you want to start a fresh project. This one is getting very tedious and boring. Thanks for everything and come by once in a while to check on us.... : )
August 2, 2013 at 2:09pm   
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suzanne_m
Kaye, Here's one with a 2'-8" chest.
August 2, 2013 at 2:28pm      Thanked by kroze
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suzanne_m
Thank you OnePlan, you know how much I love drawing plan, specially bathroom.

Don't worry Kaye, I can handle more than one at a times :)
August 2, 2013 at 2:30pm     
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PRO
Rustica Hardware
We carry and create a great selection for barn door hardware and barn doors if you plan to go this route. See: http://rusticahardware.com/barn-door-hardware/
August 2, 2013 at 3:37pm      Thanked by kroze
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michee627
I have my shoes in plastic see thru boxes on shelves that are 14" deep... they work for my shirts too. My hubby's shoes are bigger, in bigger boxes, and his shelves are deeper. I'll measure and let you know. We got the boxes for his at the container store.
August 2, 2013 at 5:15pm   
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kroze
Thanks Suzanne. I really like the new drawing. The bigger chest is great.

Rustica, I spent two hours on your site yesterday! But thanks for posting. Love your hardware but struggling with finding two narrow doors to go with your hardware! I have a 32 inch bathroom door on which I would like to have a split barn door. Each side would only be about 16-17 inches wide. Have you done any that small?

michee, their is a Container Store around the corner for me. I'll check those out. Thanks.
August 2, 2013 at 7:39pm   
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suzanne_m
Kaye, which layout do you favor? The one where the rod is on the 5'-4" wall or the one where it is on the 5'-11" wall. I quickly tried a 2'-8" chest on the layout where the rod is on the 5'-11" wall and it gives you only 1'-0" for the shelf beside it.

If you like the idea of a 2'-8" chest then I would recommend you put the rod on the 5'-4" wall.
August 2, 2013 at 8:01pm   
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kroze
Excellent. I like that! ..... longer chest, less hanging space.
And I will put a shelf between the hanging rods as you suggested. Great idea.
August 2, 2013 at 8:04pm   
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samsamyd
did you search in HOUZZ... there are some pretty artistic barn door photos... or you could go with plain and have a mural painted on them ...but not if having it 'separated' would drive you crazy -- hubby seems to like, but will he close them?

Have they invented those 'star trek' doors yet? the ones that whisk open and closed just in time? (I know the show did it with off-camera prop staff), but if cell phones are derived from Star Trek Communicators, maybe someone's figured out nice looking motion sensors like commercially used on grocery stores.
August 2, 2013 at 8:25pm   
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suzanne_m
Kaye, if you can reach the upper pole with a 1'-0" shelf between the two poles then you could do add that shelf in your own closet.
August 2, 2013 at 8:27pm   
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suzanne_m
samsamyd, kroze has decided to put the barn doors at the entrance of their master bathroom instead of the closet. They don't intend to close the master bathroom's door as they have another door for their toilet.. But your idea of having a mural painted on plain door makes me think that Kroze can buy plain doors and have her cabinetry maker add moldings to ornate them.
August 2, 2013 at 8:33pm   
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libradesigneye
I just did a single door in a highly decorative place on barn hardware. I highly recommend you go to an architectural salvage and buy a door at least 2" wider than your door opening. Exterior doors are highly recommended due to their width and weight, something discussed above. If you find something like this, you will spend less and get closer to the look you want - something unique but still a door. With the ball and claw, etc. you may find a carved beauty from the 10's that brings that piece of art to something functional.

Painting not ruled out of course. Check some rustic and arch salvage out before ordering the door or hardware, and put blocking in across your header height.
August 2, 2013 at 8:47pm   
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kroze
Suzanne, I am only 5' 5" tall, so a shelf won't work on my double rod unless I use one of those upper rods that can be pulled down with a tool, which I am not inclined to do. The extra shelf is not worth the hassle of a drop down rod. But thanks for the idea.

libradesigneye, thank you for that idea. I would thoroughly love rummaging through an architectural salvage or any other salvage that might have a reclaimed door. Terrific idea. And I love the idea of a header instead of the very expensive hardware. However, it is the hardware that is an important part of the barn door concept. I could still add the decorative hardware to the doors but hang them on an ordinary tract if it is covered with a header. I would never have thought of that idea!!!! Thank you for that. I might even find an old door that I could split down the middle for the double doors. Or Suzanne's idea of adding decorative molding to plain doors is another option if I can't find something else I like. Houzzers are invaluable to folks like me.

Samsamyd, you are extremely creative! No doubt that someone will soon come out with a sensor for closet doors similar to the sensors for business doors. They are probably cost prohibitive for the average residential renovation at this point. But the app is a great idea. You need to patten that idea quickly!! :)
August 3, 2013 at 6:27am   
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michee627
Kroze - I'm only 5'3"... I keep a small wood step in the closet that slides under the bottom shelf on the built in shelving unit. That way I pull it out and step up to put things on the shelf and take them off. It is a great way to get the winter shoes out of the way, suitcases, whatever you don't use frequently etc. Stuff up there is usually in a "box" or basket so I just have to reach the front edge.

Also the dry cleaner rod we installed I thought we would never use, and we use it ALL the time (not for dry cleaning per se just for hanging stuff).

The belt hanger is great too - slides out from the closet wall and back in and keeps the belts out of the way. We both have one (his and hers) and they are really nice.
August 3, 2013 at 8:23am   
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kroze
Thanks michee. The double rod is already high because it takes a lot of room for a double row of shirts. Therefore the idea of anything between the double rods is not ideal. Yes, there will certainly be a shelf above the second rod. I have that now. I have to tiptoe to reach it, but it works. But I think Suzanne was suggesting a double shelf between the double rods in my husband's closet. That would work okay because he is 6 feet tall. It would give him a place to put extra shoes or sweaters. Currently the shelf between my double rods is virtually unusable because the upper shirts almost touch the shelf. So I store collapsable tote bags there.
August 3, 2013 at 9:14am   
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kroze
Suzanne !!! I just realized that my bedroom closet off the bathroom has a sloped ceiling. The highest wall is on the left as entering. If we put the built-in on that wall, I can continue the shelving up much higher. The wall on the right is a scant 8 feet. The wall on the left is 10 feet. Based upon that, I think I am forced to switch walls for the built-ins. So sorry I failed to report this information earlier. You are very patient! I have thrown you several curves during this design. : /
August 3, 2013 at 9:28am   
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bumblebee728
Kroze, have you considered built-ins in your BR without an actual closed closet 'room'? I saw this picture, I wanted to throw it out there for you, just in case the dimensions weren't working out.
August 3, 2013 at 9:34am   
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kroze
That is a beautiful picture bumblebee and I really like it. Would love to do it, but my problem lies in the fact that the master bedroom is not that large and I must be mindful of the potential options for furniture arrangement. That is why I didn't want another door going directly into the closet from the bedroom. I need that long wall uninterrupted for furniture placement. One of the other walls is interrupted by two windows. So, that really limits the options. But I appreciate the idea...... gorgeous!
August 3, 2013 at 9:46am   
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bumblebee728
Oh ok, I was thinking it would free up floor space in the BR and that if you had built-in chests you would need less furniture. I've been trying to work on a sketch for the closet idea I posted, still working on that one, but I do have a rough sketch of a variation of Suzanne's most recent drawing. Please forgive, it is hand drawn and rough :)
August 3, 2013 at 9:56am   
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suzanne_m
Kroze, I don't know if you are ok with the idea that you can't reach the upper pole in your husband's closet. At my home, I am doing the laundry and I am the one who hang my husband's in the closet. If you are ok to use a stool or wait until your husband hang them himself than you can go ahead with the shelf in the middle otherwise I would not do it.

Thank you Bumbleebee for your drawing. The idea of saving floor space is nice and it would give 3'-4" for Kroze's husband in front of the shelves if they are 1'-8" deep, assuming that the drawers are not opened when picking-up something on the shelves. However, one problem the cafe door would slam into the shelves if they are 2'-0" wide.
August 3, 2013 at 10:59am   
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kroze
I don't currently have any chest or dressers in the bedroom, but it is still full of furnishings. I have a somewhat large desk and chair, another chair, trunk, table and tall quilt cabinet. Also have large bed and two night stands. My furnishings might be able to handle the juggling of smaller wall space, but the next owner may not. Flexibility is important in a bedroom.

I see what you are trying to do in the smaller closet. But I thought there was going to be short hanging spaces on both walls with your arrangement. The fact that we are losing that much hanging space makes it less appealing. I don't think the extra walking space is necessary in Suzanne's arrangement. All ideas are deeply appreciated though!! :)
August 3, 2013 at 11:02am   
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suzanne_m
Kroze, I think I would still put the built-in on the left wall. You could have extra cubicles on the top shelf where you have you double rods.
August 3, 2013 at 11:03am   
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kroze
Suzanne, that had not occurred to me...... being able to hang up things in my husband's closet. That is not practical, especially since he will have plenty of storage apart from more space on the rod wall. Thanks for thinking of that!
August 3, 2013 at 11:05am   
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kroze
Suzanne, I think you meant to say the "right" wall instead of the "left" wall. The left wall is the taller size. You have advocated the right wall because of the view from the bathroom.
August 3, 2013 at 11:06am   
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kroze
Extra cubicle are not as accessible above a double rod. The clothes protrude enough to make it awkward. I was actually thinking about making longer shelves above the cubicles. See my most recent pics in my ideabook. It shows a built in closet with that idea.
August 3, 2013 at 11:10am   
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kroze
oops! I just checked and the pics aren't there. I must have flubbed the effort. I'll try to find them again.
August 3, 2013 at 11:12am   
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bumblebee728
The one with the 2 hanging spaces on far left and far right is the one I'm still working on. Sorry, I have to finish it tomorrow, on my way to work again. :(
August 3, 2013 at 11:19am   
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suzanne_m
Yes you are right Kroze, I meant to say, keep the built-in on the RIGHT wall. I should pay more attention when I write left or right, it confuses people.
August 3, 2013 at 11:22am   
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bumblebee728
Suzanne, in my drawing each door is 1 ft. wide. The opening is 2 ft. wide. The saving of floor space idea was for built-ins in the BR, which kroze has explained to me now causes a wall furniture placement problem.
August 3, 2013 at 11:23am     
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suzanne_m
Yes, you are right bumblebee that the doors would not have been a problem. I did not notice they were 1 foot wide each.
August 3, 2013 at 11:35am   
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kroze
A two foot door is very feasible in that small closet. Our toilet room door is two feet wide, no problem!
August 3, 2013 at 11:41am   
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suzanne_m
Kroze, a 2 ft door would work and you could have one. However, it would not change the length or angle of the wall as you still need a bit of space in front of the rod or the shelf. So, I would still keep larger door unless you find they are harder to manage if they are cafe door. Fred, what do you think?

Another note, my husband is also 6 ft tall and I measured the width of 2 pairs of shoes side by side. You would need a shelf that is 1'-10" to store 2 pairs of shoes side by side on a shelf without having to fight when you place them on the shelf. I would recommend a shelf 1'-10" wide with a chest 2'-5" to maximize the functionality of the shelves.
August 3, 2013 at 11:54am   
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kroze
Thanks for doing that experiment for me Suzanne. Your final dimensions sound great to me. It is more important to have the correct shelf space for two pairs of shoes....... although my husband has few shoes. He is very practical and only keeps what he needs........ which currently is dress shoes and sneakers. :)
August 3, 2013 at 12:00pm   
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suzanne_m
Having space for 3 shoes and 7/10 of the fourth shoe is kind of lost space. You might as well add few inches and have 4 shoes side by side. Also, a 22 in. wide shelf works find for 2 piles of shirts folded if it is what you plan to put on the shelves.
August 3, 2013 at 12:34pm   
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Fred S
Yes, 30" door is best. You have a door on each side that remains in the opening when open. When you subtract 2.5" from each side, the actual clear opening is only 2'-1". If you make it too narrow, there will be a tendency to push the door open past the 90 degree stay open point when you go through, and then you need to coax it closed or it will remain open. If they are flush to the outside of the wall/jamb, they look nicer from the bedroom and only encroach into the closet about 9.5" when pushed inward.
August 3, 2013 at 12:39pm   
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kroze
Yes Suzanne, that is exactly what it will be used for..... folded clothing.

I just looked back at your drawing and I can't find where you said the door size of that closet. I didn't think of it until Fred mention the 30". I know that you made the bathroom door 32". Right?
August 3, 2013 at 12:46pm   
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kroze
You make an excellent point Fred. The bigger door makes sense!
August 3, 2013 at 12:47pm   
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suzanne_m
Yes, the bathroom door is 32" and the diagonal closet door is 30". Below is the plan with the new dimensions if the chest and shelves. The size of the door is mention in the title on top of the drawing:
August 3, 2013 at 12:56pm      Thanked by kroze
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kroze
P-E-R-F-E-C-T !!! Thanks a million.

I have found an architectural salvage place but it is in a bad neighborhood, so I must wait for my husband's schedule to open up... : )
August 3, 2013 at 12:58pm   
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suzanne_m
I just re-read my comment above. Ignore the part where I say 'if the chest and shelves'. That was a part of text I wrote but changed the formulation of my phrase and for got take-out these words. When I write in english, I sometimes write something then get stuck in my wording and need to re-formulate the phrase. Sometimes, I forgot to delete part of my old sentence.
August 3, 2013 at 1:01pm   
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suzanne_m
That sounds fun to go shop at that place. Let us know your findings :)
August 3, 2013 at 1:02pm   
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kroze
Please email me that above drawing. Thanks
August 3, 2013 at 1:06pm   
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suzanne_m
Fred, I am really not good at following how cafe doors work. If you look at my drawing above, when Kroze's husband will be in front of the dresser with a drawer opened, will the cafe doors be closed behind him or will they be wide opened like in my drawing?
August 3, 2013 at 1:15pm   
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kroze
I think the left door will be open unless he intentionally releases it.
August 3, 2013 at 1:18pm   
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Fred S
As long as he can get clear of the door, it would close automatically. I was about to draw a picture.
August 3, 2013 at 1:30pm        Thanked by kroze
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Fred S
This is a quick drawing of my thoughts to mull over. I will make better comments after I eat.
August 3, 2013 at 2:28pm   
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suzanne_m
Very nice drawing Fred. Thank you. I will draw the same thing tomorrow with the latest measurements I have for the closet and you can comment if it causes any problem, ok?
August 3, 2013 at 2:44pm   
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kroze
Thank you both! Team work is wonderful !
August 3, 2013 at 2:53pm   
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Fred S
Hopefully the drawing explains as much to you both as I think it does in my head :) I just measured a standard closet rod support bracket and it is 11.5" from the wall to center, not 12 as on my drawing. Anything bulky on a hanger will take up 22" from the wall like a suit jacket. Shirts will still be 20"- 21" ish to hang freely. Not a big deal, just getting technical. A 30" clear space for someone to clear the doors would be nice. I went to the large side of that because I was guessing when I drew it. I drew the right wall at 2'-9" (3" per square) and the angle wall at 45 degrees because I like even angles. This makes the bedroom wall (19) + the toilet room wall longer for more versatility in furniture placement. Since the closet door wall is on an angle, it really doesn't use up any more room in the bedroom by moving it out, but does make it easier to clear the doors when inside the closet. The cafe doors are drawn at their maximum opening angle from each direction. If you are going in and out cleaning or something, you can open the doors outward past 90 degrees and they will stay open and out of the way. Otherwise, they should always just swing shut behind you when you walk through normally.
August 3, 2013 at 3:32pm   
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kroze
It makes perfect sense Fred. I'm sure glad you understand these things and can explain them to folks like me, who have absolutely NO idea how to do this!

Is it sort of important to do things symmetrically with regard to angles? That had not occurred to me, but I suppose the angle can affect the overall aesthetics. Is that the idea?

I really like the idea of the longer wall on the toilet room side for furniture and can live with the longer wall by the door. It will be 3" shorter than the current wall. Was hoping to get that wall shorter, but we need to do what looks best.

Thanks!
August 3, 2013 at 3:46pm   
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Fred S
Well, I don't line my tools up in alphabetical order, but the angle may bother me more than most. :) I get in the habit of doing it because flooring like square tiles look funny cut along an angled wall that go from big to small because the angle is not at 45 degrees.
August 3, 2013 at 3:57pm   
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kroze
Oh my goodness, I am sure that is right! Never thought about that. I'm considering extending my hardwood floors into the master bedroom during this remodel. Haven't decided for sure yet. But that might also look odd without a 45 degree angle.
August 3, 2013 at 4:36pm   
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Fred S
Carpet and hardwood don't bother me for that usually. The more patterned floorings drive me crazy.
August 3, 2013 at 4:46pm      Thanked by kroze
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suzanne_m
I am glad Fred that you made a comment about the width of the rod. I have read on internet that allocating 20" for hanging clothes was the standard and at that time when I checked the width of a hanger which is 17" I thought it made sense. But your comment made me check distance from the wall to the middle of the rod in my own closets and it is 11.5 in. So Kaye, I will revised my drawings and allocates 23 in. instead of 20.

Fred, you have a good point about having walls at 45 degrees when you install square tiles. I did not think of that either. Kroze, I agree with Fred, it would not be a problem with hardwood floor and the general look of your bedroom will still look good even if your wall is not 45 degrees.
August 3, 2013 at 8:37pm   
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suzanne_m
This is a drawing of the closet with a width of 23 in. allocated for the rod. My software cannot draw doors swinging inward when the hinges are outward so I use those half circles to show you the movement of the doors. The black dots show where the pivot of the doors are. In this drawing, the wall is at 54 degrees.

Kaye, I don't know if your are ok with a chest 3 in. smaller (2'-2" chest with a 1'-10" shelf) or do you prefer I cut the shelf in half to allow for one pair of show instead of 2. This would give you 3'-1" chest with 11" shelf.
August 3, 2013 at 9:18pm   
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Fred S
My #2 graphite software doesn't have that problem :) ha-ha. I actually have a very nice program on my computer, but no internet. Transferring the pictures to the phone to get them on here just seems to be too much hassle. I prefer the antique method for big jobs anyway. For this, a scale ruler and graph paper is easier to keep with me and do at work.
August 3, 2013 at 9:46pm     
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suzanne_m
Fred, the drawing below is the same as above except that I drew a 2'-6" door on this one just for you to see where I put the pivots in relation to the door centered to the wall. Did I put the pivots for the cafe doors at the right place? I hope I don't confuse anyone ... disregard, how far the panels of the door I drew go because that door has its hinges inside. By having the hinges on the outside, the panels of the cafe door won't reach the 30 in. circle.
August 3, 2013 at 10:50pm   
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suzanne_m
A quick note: the purple rectangulars beside the pivots are not door panels. It is only to show the length of the walls 20 and 21.
August 3, 2013 at 11:43pm   
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Fred S
Yes, that is what I would do. The exact placement may depend on the exact type of hardware chosen. There are all kinds. http://www.hardwaresource.com/hinges/DOOR+HINGES/Pivot+Hinges+-+Pivot+Sets?gclid=CPztld6a47gCFSYV7AodIA8AsQ
August 4, 2013 at 12:08am   
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Fred S
And the thickness of the door.
August 4, 2013 at 12:08am   
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suzanne_m
Thank you Fred. Kroze if you are ok with these dimensions, I will make the changes on the master ensuite and email you the 2 plans. Do you know if you prefer a 2'-2" chest with a 1'-10" shelf or 3'-1" chest with a 11" shelf. It could be also 3' chest with a 12" shelf. You can have other combos but I think it would be a waste of space for the shelves. I think you should make the shelves so they are wide enough for 1 pair or 2 pairs of shoes side by side but not a pair and a half. Same for pile of folded shirts: 1 pile or 2 piles but not 1 pile and a half.
August 4, 2013 at 12:16am   
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kroze
Thank you to both of you!! I think a one foot shelf is not practical for storage. So, lets go for two pair of shoes!

I have no idea about angles, so pick the one that works best for the overall design. That is something beyond my talent. : )

Fred, thanks for that link. I will definitely be spending some time there.

BTW, my husband just told me that he thinks I have "plans" that will probably come in at twice the originally conceived target price! : /

: )
August 4, 2013 at 5:37am   
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bumblebee728
Kroze, are your plans set? Are you still interested in seeing my plan with the 2 shorter rods on each far side? I see a lot of work was done last night but I'll send them if you're interested.
August 4, 2013 at 7:20am   
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bumblebee728
Since I have to go to work again, I'll send them just to show you the 2 sets of hanging rods at far ends. I couldn't do the shelves cornered, with built-ins on either side because they ( the built-ins ) would probably be too narrow and cost too much for two. This drawing gives you 8' total hanging space and 2' depth for hanging clothes which I think is a minimum for men's shirts and jackets. I didn't do actual doorway and doorway walls separately because I'm not sure what actual door measurement you want to use. What I wanted to figure out a way to suggest also, was to put a built-in straight ahead in the corner, so that would be the only thing seen from the entrance, and then see if you liked the idea of an archway with beautiful moulding (no door) and a chandelier hanging in the closet (seen through the archway along with the built-in only). Just for thought :).
August 4, 2013 at 9:57am   
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bumblebee728
Oops, forgot picture:
August 4, 2013 at 9:58am   
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suzanne_m
Kaye, if you are ok with 8 ft of hanging rod instead of 10'-8", I can try to draw this one it later with the 30 in. clearance and cafe door. If you feel that 8 ft of hanging rod is not enough then I think you should stay with the other one. I will be back only late this afternoon.
August 4, 2013 at 10:07am   
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suzanne_m
Bumblebee, I want to thank you for your drawing. I really like to see all the possibilities so we can ensure we give the best to Kroze.
August 4, 2013 at 10:12am     
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bumblebee728
Awe, thanks Suzanne, I don't have the skill you and Fred have at this, but I figure there's a thousand variations and thought if I had even one idea that helped, you could take it and improve on it. Thanks again, I always enjoy seeing the threads you're on and how much you contribute to them.
August 4, 2013 at 10:24am   
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R Robulock
I just wanted to follow up on this project. I am looking into putting cafe doors in my master also but I gave up after seeing the options and the prices. I am looking forward to seeing your decision & finishing result. I need some ideas because I do NOT want swinging doors. I would like sliding doors. As you mentioned, much more space saving.
August 4, 2013 at 12:15pm   
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R Robulock
This is more or less what I want. Is this the same style you are looking at???
August 4, 2013 at 12:18pm   
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suzanne_m
Thank you bumblebee. It is nice to see your contribution too!
August 4, 2013 at 12:55pm     
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kroze
Ah-so..... see how the mice play when the cat is away!! : )

Sorry I have been away all day, this is an interesting new turn of events! Congratulations bumblebee on your vivid imagination!!

My husband is still in shock from the idea of putting a chandelier in HIS closet. He said, "Does she know I am a MAN!" : )

Personally, I think it is a FABULOUS idea bumblebee. Only us women could appreciate it!

Actually, our home overall is not elegant enough to grace with such luxury..... : ) It would probably look totally out of place.

But it certainly doesn't hurt to dream and I love daring new ideas like that. No wonder you hang out around houzz. You have it in your blood.

BTW, the design is NOT yet set in cement...! That is what this thread is all about... getting it ready.

RR, I love the doors. That is what I am looking at for the bathroom door...... but a double door. In the closet, my only real option is the cafe door because of the location in the room....... and a husband not good at closing normal doors..... : )

I have now found three architectural reclamation businesses within a reasonable radius of me. One day my husband and I will make a day long trip visiting all of these locations. Two of them come highly recommended by remodelers. So I am hoping to find some treasure to incorporate into my remodel. That would be far more interesting than the regular retail doors IMO.

Many thanks to all of you who faithfully stick with me on this project.
August 4, 2013 at 1:48pm     
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kroze
Suzanne, yes I am okay with the eight foot hanging space, so give it a whirl.....! Thanks.
August 4, 2013 at 1:50pm   
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bumblebee728
Lol, Kroze, tell your hubby I know he's a man. :) By chandelier I didn't mean a sparkly one dripping of crystals ( although us girls do love those!), just one that goes with your bedroom decor. Actually, I probably should have said hanging drum lamp or pendant. I'm on dinner break from work right now, but I'm going to try to stay caught up with the thread tonight. :)
August 4, 2013 at 2:33pm   
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Fred S
Just because the subject came up, chandeliers are not allowed in closets.
August 4, 2013 at 2:39pm   
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Fred S
Sorry about the bad pictures. Pendant lights are not allowed either. Identified lights as in picture #3 are hard to find. It is a code provision for newer and not yet developed lighting like low voltage LED.
August 4, 2013 at 2:47pm   
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kroze
What would we do without you Fred !!

Thanks for the education.
August 4, 2013 at 2:51pm   
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kroze
Fred, you may have told us already but does a pocket door wall have to be 2 x 6? My husband seems to think so because of the thickness of the door makes too big a cut thru a 2 x 4.

I don't know if Suzanne has taken that into consideration in her drawings.
August 4, 2013 at 3:04pm   
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Fred S
Just need a 2x4 wall.
August 4, 2013 at 3:13pm      Thanked by kroze
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suzanne_m
Good that means I don't have to shop another 2 inches from your built-in in your master closet. :)

Also, Fred you mentioned about the thickness of the door for the cafe door. I guess, Kroze will have to decide something that is sturdy enough to handle the frequent opening and closing and at the same time something not too thick so the space between the 2 doors is not too big.

I am going to draw bumblee's suggestion with my software. Will let you know when I am done.
August 4, 2013 at 3:16pm   
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bumblebee728
Here are the type of chandeliers I was thinking of for Mr. K: the chandy idea was in the 'closet' with the arched doorway (no door), so probably allowed. But, Fred I was surprised to hear they weren't allowed in closets, I see pix of them in closets all the time. They probably are the type without closed doors:
August 4, 2013 at 3:25pm   
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R Robulock
I feel you, our bedroom door actually opens and hits the wall where the barn door would slide when open. I am so confused about what to do. They look so fantastic, I really want a sliding one!
August 4, 2013 at 3:30pm   
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Fred S
Thickness has less to do with durability than the material and how it is put together. As long as kids are not running through them and trying to hyper-extend them, most doors will work.
These sound promising for a good tight fit. http://www.hardwaresource.com/hinges/DOOR+HINGES/Pivot+Hinges+-+Pivot+Sets/Camtrol+Double+Acting+Pivot+Hinge
The pictured ones are in most hardware stores for 1" thick lightweight doors.
August 4, 2013 at 3:30pm     
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suzanne_m
Without going very fancy with my drawing, I quickly tried bumblebee's layout. It does not seem to work. It feels a bit cramped in the area where Gene has to open the drawers. The clothes hung around is a bit in the way.
August 4, 2013 at 3:33pm   
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Fred S
Sorry, no. Just because people do it, doesn't make it legal. It doesn't matter if there is a door or not.
August 4, 2013 at 3:35pm   
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kroze
I can vouch for that Fred. "Code" is very subjective at times. When doing my kitchen, I was informed of codes but given the option anyway. I opted to ignore silly codes on two issues.
August 4, 2013 at 3:44pm   
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kroze
Thanks for the pics bumblebee, I might consider that Ballard for the bathroom ceiling.

Suzanne, thanks for trying bumblebees idea. I think we will be fine with your original plan.
August 4, 2013 at 3:46pm   
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kroze
And Fred, I had not considered cafe doors as thin as one inch in thickness. But it does make sense to keep them as light as possible. Can't wait to go shopping for those!
August 4, 2013 at 3:49pm   
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suzanne_m
I love chandeliers above the sinks on a vanity. I don't know the rules for the size of chandelier above a vanity but the one from ballards shown above seems too big for the depth of the vanity. Houzzers, what do you think?
August 4, 2013 at 3:57pm   
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kroze
Fred, thanks for that pocket door pic. My husband is impressed!
August 4, 2013 at 4:03pm   
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Fred S
As long as the edge of the pendant is 3' away from the shower, or above 8'-6" from the floor in this case. :)
August 4, 2013 at 4:03pm   
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Fred S
A standard interior door is 1 3/8" thick. Some bifold door blanks are as skinny as 7/8".
August 4, 2013 at 4:06pm   
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Fred S
Some doors are hollow which also makes them light.
August 4, 2013 at 4:08pm   
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kroze
Actually, I think my bathroom will meet all of those requirements Fred. The center of the vanity area is definitely more than three feet from the shower and the ceiling is tall enough.
August 4, 2013 at 4:10pm   
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kroze
I don't want the cafe doors to look cheap and I think anything under an inch will look cheap!
August 4, 2013 at 4:10pm   
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Fred S
Just making sure you wouldn't want a chandelier above each sink. I know what you mean by a thin door looking cheap. Just giving you an idea of what you might expect to find.
August 4, 2013 at 4:24pm   
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kroze
Thanks Fred. I think one ceiling light and two or more wall mounted lights by the mirrors would be nice. Lighting is a BIG deal for me. As my eyes fade, light becomes more important.

As I like to say, "You know you're getting old if you go to turn on the lights and find they are already on!"
August 4, 2013 at 4:28pm   
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kroze
Suzanne, I still have that pesky little problem of where to mount an extendable mirror for hair grooming. I already have one, but it must be mounted somewhere that will allow for it to fold against the wall. Maybe there will be enough space on the side wall of the vanity.
August 4, 2013 at 4:31pm   
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Fred S
Bummer, lucky for me that isn't so bad yet. The saying on the job is; Once the lights work, your done with the job.
August 4, 2013 at 4:34pm   
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kroze
: )
August 4, 2013 at 5:21pm   
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suzanne_m
Have you found a place to mount your mirror in your current bathroom?
August 4, 2013 at 7:08pm   
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suzanne_m
Like you said, it is a little pesky problem. I have one mirror at home but in order to be functional it has to be installed on a wall beside the vanity and 12 in. in front of the vanity. The wall between the vanity and master closet is only 3 in past the vanity. I am not sure how to fix that problem yet.

I have found this mirror on intenet. It seems small enough that it could be installed on the front of the right wall between the vanity and the built-in: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/howaboutthat/4061842/360-degree-mirror-every-womans-dream.html

I will do some more research and more thinking, maybe I can come up with something.
August 4, 2013 at 7:33pm   
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suzanne_m
Kaye, I thought of another option but I prefer to discuss it in your other thread: http://www.houzz.com/discussions/564898#1314125

I will post the latest drawing of you master ensuite and discuss it there.
August 4, 2013 at 7:45pm   
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kroze
That is great Suzanne. And I LOVE that mirror link. I must have that!!! Thanks
August 4, 2013 at 8:06pm   
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bumblebee728
A corner/closet arrangement I forgot to post before, just for inspiration:
August 5, 2013 at 3:23pm   
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kroze
Great pic bumblebee. That is very attractive. It is interesting that it has unique hanging rods. Are there any advantages to that? I suppose you can only use them on short hanging spaces as longer ones would put too much weight on that type of rod. What do you thing?
August 5, 2013 at 3:28pm   
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bumblebee728
I think that type of rod is available for when you don't have a strong base to attach a rod to on the sides. Or if there's no sides at all to attach the rod to. Hmmm, that could come in handy sometime, thanks for pointing that out Kroze! Oh, show Mr. K I put ice skates in this closet for him :)
August 5, 2013 at 3:45pm   
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kroze
Bumblebee...... you don't understand Mr. K...

Ice skates may be worse than a chandelier..... : ) Real men don't ice skate! hee hee

About the rod, I am thinking that this rod in the pic may be indicative of prefab closet units. Don't know.
August 5, 2013 at 4:24pm   
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Fred S
We can, we just choose not to. Unless you live in Canada, then they call it hockey :).
August 5, 2013 at 4:28pm     
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bumblebee728
Lol about the ice skates! Didn't think of that, but you're right, I know men that would say the same thing. Boy, I'm batting 1000 with Mr. K.
About those rods, maybe. I'll have to check it out next time I'm in a store that sells clothes rods. I like to know these little details :)
August 5, 2013 at 4:32pm   
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bumblebee728
Just saw your post Fred, lol again!
August 5, 2013 at 4:34pm   
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bumblebee728
Kroze, tell Mr. K I put a pair of HOCKEY skates in there for him!
August 5, 2013 at 4:36pm   
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kroze
Fred, people in the south don't speak ice hockey. It is a foreign language down here! : )
August 5, 2013 at 4:36pm   
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Fred S
I thought ICE was a foreign language down there. At least the kind on the ground :)
August 5, 2013 at 4:39pm   
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kroze
Oh, that was cute Fred....... : }
August 5, 2013 at 4:43pm   
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bumblebee728
Oh gosh, I'm getting goofy, I forgot you live in Texas. I'm going to have to find a closet with a cowboy hat hanging on the wall!
August 5, 2013 at 4:44pm   
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kroze
A hat would be great, bumblebee!! : )
August 5, 2013 at 4:46pm   
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kroze
As I posted on one of my other threads, I am going out of State again tomorrow for an indefinite period of time. However, I am taking my computer and hope to stay involved in these threads.
August 5, 2013 at 4:48pm   
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bumblebee728
Aha! A cowboy hat rack for Mr. K!
August 5, 2013 at 5:10pm     
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bumblebee728
Maybe he'll forgive me now for the chandelier and ice skates! :)
August 5, 2013 at 5:11pm   
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kroze
That will do it! Very Texas...... to the core! : )
August 5, 2013 at 5:13pm   
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bumblebee728
Yay! And one more a little more Texas:
Off to visit my Grandbaby! Thanks for the fun!
August 5, 2013 at 5:19pm   
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kroze
Thanks bumblebee.
August 5, 2013 at 5:30pm   
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bumblebee728
Kroze, I just looked at your other post. Saying a prayer for you and your father.
August 5, 2013 at 5:31pm   
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kroze
Thanks again. I appreciate the prayers.
August 5, 2013 at 5:31pm   
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bumblebee728
You're welcome.
August 5, 2013 at 5:38pm   
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suzanne_m
Kaye, maybe you can install these doors with bumblebee's hats rack in Mr.K's closet :)
August 7, 2013 at 4:05pm     
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kroze
Cute! I must have that sign above the doors also!!! : )
August 7, 2013 at 6:16pm     
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bumblebee728
Great job, Suzanne! Looks like the search for the perfect cafe doors is over!
August 7, 2013 at 9:30pm     
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kroze
I think I am going to salvage places tomorrow to see what is out there. I'll keep you all posted.
August 14, 2013 at 1:46pm     
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