This is not a Euro door? Do you agree??
Nanette Alton
August 19, 2013 in Design Dilemma
Hello, I am building a new house and paid extra for a Euro frameless style door & the builder is telling me this is it?? That's the best that can be done in frameless because of the "structure" of the glass?? What? Anyone have opinions on either side of the argument?
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Genevieve
It is a Euro Door but not frame less, I don't like that frame either
Remodel 1012

Modern Bathroom
   August 19, 2013 at 10:18AM
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Madden, Slick & Bontempo, Inc
It's considered "frameless" because there is no frame around the glass doors themselves. I understand that it may not be what you want though, or expected. It that going to be sliding doors? Or a pivot door? If it's a pivot door, one that opens into the room, it can be done without the frame. Will most likely cost more though.
   Thanked by Nanette Alton    August 19, 2013 at 10:34AM
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0825sam
I didn't think a frameless door had anything along the top
1 Like   Thanked by Nanette Alton    August 19, 2013 at 10:42AM
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Genevieve
The Builder is wrong and if you paid for it then you can tell him to change it to a "frameless" Euro Door ,
1 Like   Thanked by Nanette Alton    August 19, 2013 at 11:30AM
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Jeffrey Brooks Interior Design
Frameless glass doors are made of thicker glass than what you have here. So truley frameless doors cost more than tempered glass.
It sounds like your idea of frameless and his don't match. To settle the question of what exactly you were thinking of, visit a Bath and Kitchen store and check out their glass enclosures. Bring a snap shot and measurements and inquire about the feasibility of the style you like.
2 Likes   Thanked by Nanette Alton    August 19, 2013 at 12:39PM
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Deborah Butler, Brickwood Builders
As Madden has noted above, frameless refers to not having a frame around each piece of glass that makes the panels and doors. What is at the top of this unit is called a "header" and it is used to provide additional stability if needed. It doesn't have to be there but in certain configurations it significantly improves the unit - particularly if a shower door is hinged off of another glass panel rather than being hinged off the wall. It reduces the amount of play and shaking of the door and panel as the door is opened and closed.

It appears there was little communication between you and the builder on this item. Hopefully it can be resolved.
   Thanked by Nanette Alton    August 19, 2013 at 1:47PM
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Nancy Travisinteriors
Frameless means no frame anyway.don'tlike what he did
1 Like   August 19, 2013 at 2:04PM
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Jeffrey Brooks Interior Design
Something to think about is the frequency in which this kind of situation comes up. The builder's responsibility is to provide the labor, materials and expertise to build what a home owner wants. When there is no designer or architect involved to interpret the technical points, you and your builder have to rely on what each of you understands about the subject. Simple terms like "frameless", "trackless, "recessed", and so on may mean different things to you both.
Before jumping to conclusions at this point, the best way to move forward is to get your facts in order and then work with your builder to find the best compromise. I've seen too many misunderstandings like this become disputes. Builders who do not take the time to get a clear definition of the client's expectations are just as much at fault as clients who don't have a clear understanding of what is feasible.
   Thanked by Nanette Alton    August 19, 2013 at 2:31PM
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Nanette Alton
We actually gave the builder photographs of our last master bath shower which had a frameless door & said we wanted the exact same thing. This shower is less glass and the door will hinge off the wall and the return glass is only 8" so I'm pretty sure a header is not necessary. I just wanted to see if I was way off base with my request for no frame. Thank you everyone.
1 Like   August 19, 2013 at 2:31PM
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Jeffrey Brooks Interior Design
A quick story; some people I know decided to have their basement finished. Their idea was to convert the raw space into playroom, bar, TV room and wine cellar and a new bathroom. To keep costs modest they hired a local handy man and his helper to do the work. No plans were drawn, no budget established and no research was done into the feasibility of all this.
Long story short; two toilets, two vanities, a few boxes of tile, loads of sheet rock and a few thousand dollars later they had a mess on their hands. Of course that's when I got a call.
The punch line is (they claim to this day) "it was the builder's fault".
   Thanked by Nanette Alton    August 19, 2013 at 3:17PM
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Jeffrey Brooks Interior Design
Got it. So the whole story is that he ignored your specific request.
1 Like   Thanked by Nanette Alton    August 19, 2013 at 3:20PM
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Nanette Alton
Jeffrey--I totally understand what you are saying, the consumer must be informed & responsible. I am a licensed landscape architect with a design degree; I assure you we had plans and I gave him a binder full of items for the house including photos. The euro door is on the plans but the local glass shop calls this a euro door frameless door & is trying to discredit my knowledge of what "is" and "isn't" frameless. I think this shop gets away with this M.O. because other consumers are not informed & think because the glass shop says it's not structrually feasible they take him at his word--me on the other hand not so much. I know this can look so much better & not have that huge header across the top! thanks for your help.
1 Like   August 19, 2013 at 7:41PM
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Deborah Butler, Brickwood Builders
Nannette, your builder should have been more careful to order what you communicated and provided pictures of. You certainly have a legitimate beef with him/her and your unit should be addressed since you communicated in appropriate ways. This configuration can be done without the header -it may or may not wobble some as the door opens and closes. However, for the sake of being technically correct for others that may read this thread, the pictured unit above meets the definition of a frameless enclosure. A frameless unit can have a header and sometimes must have a header -depending upon configuration. The header does not make it fail the definition of frameless. My point to others being that it is important to have pictures or other visual ways of communicating in order to get what you want -and it gives you something to fall back on if there is an issue. Just to say frameless may not get one what they wanted.
3 Likes   Thanked by Nanette Alton    August 19, 2013 at 8:18PM
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bevballew
I have a frameless shower door. No bar on top. If euro is totally frameless then you are right and the builder does not want to pay for the mistake. I would go to a glass store, give your dimensions and ask for euro. Get a price. Don't tell them your predicament. When you get the estimate, same width of glass, you will know if you actually paid for a totally frameless door. Then you can address the problem with the builder.
1 Like   Thanked by Nanette Alton    August 19, 2013 at 8:22PM
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Ironwood Builders
Thanks Deborah! Very clear and correct definition of "frameless" shower door design and a truly thoughtful and well written response. On a recent job our regular shower door installer would not build the neo-angle heavy glass enclosure without a header, although the client had seen it in a showroom. We got a new installer.
1 Like   Thanked by Nanette Alton    August 19, 2013 at 8:25PM
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Deborah Butler, Brickwood Builders
Thank you sir.
1 Like   August 19, 2013 at 8:41PM
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ReSquare Architecture + Construction
Ditto to all the descriptions of frameless. But the issue is really irrelevant if you provided a photo of what you want and got something else. That's called "not to spec" even if the spec is just a photo.

If they are using glass that's too thin they probably do need that header to keep that larger piece in place without breaking. Only way around that is thicker glass, and maybe a clipped post to the ceiling from the top of glass at the open corner.

Either way, if you were clear with what you wanted (per photo) it should not be yours to fix.
2 Likes   Thanked by Nanette Alton    August 20, 2013 at 7:22AM
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Nanette Alton
thank you everyone for your thoughtful & informative posts; I will use this information to resolve the conflict & hope that we an get a credit to build what we really want; the tile work turned out so beautiful I don't want it to be ruined by this clunky shower door.
   August 20, 2013 at 12:49PM
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