Contractor Tips: Top 10 Home Remodeling Don'ts

kennedytarheel excellent! thanks

John Whipple - By Any Design ltd. Great article. I love the comment about the pets.

Last week my clients dog nipped at my calf. Had the dog bit me hard - there would have been a long delay while my leg mended....

Now when I'm carrying in my tools I'm more concerned about being bitten than I am about protecting the walls from harm. It's hard to be careful when the dog is allowed to roam free and charges me almost every time I show up at the home.

Typically dogs don't scare me - there is just something about Pit Bulls that makes me a little nervous. I should be worried about my showers being built right - not about my safety on a job site.

JW

3D-Tile-Design - Bertram Tasch Hello Kenny,

Thanks for this excellent article. You have spoken to me from the soul. I have bookmarked it and will use it for some of my future clients if needed. ☺

Regards,

3D-Tile-Design - Bertram Tasch
Maple Ridge, BC (Greater Vancouver)
http://www.3D-Tile-Design.ca

olldbobbi Good thoughts, all of them.

Trim Electric, Inc. Good Article!

motherbear "Don't buy your own materials"....I have to disagree. In building my Greene & Greene style home, if I had not researched & located many items, I would not have gotten what I WANTED!

3D-Tile-Design - Bertram Tasch Hello motherbear,

You are an "exceptional case" and I wished more customers where like you and would investigate what type/kind of material the contractor uses. However most people and even the sales people in the hardware stores don't know about the different materials and their benefits and also their disadvantages.

Therefore in most cases it is better when the contractor provides all the necessary material. He should know what material is the best for your project. And if you you have special materials/items in mind, ask him whether he has installed it before and what are his experiences with it.

And it is YOUR job to ask him lots of questions. For example: Why he uses this material and not other materials and what are the benefits of it, so you will better understand why it is maybe more expensive. This is the only way to figure out what you get for your money. If you don't do this, the contractor may use the cheapest material to maximize his profit. Therefore I recommend: Do ALWAYS your homework and ask lots of questions BEFORE you hire someone and BEFORE you sign any contract.

Regards,

3D-Tile-Design - Bertram Tasch
Maple Ridge, BC (Greater Vancouver)
http://www.3D-Tile-Design.ca

trasgorshek Such a great ideabook! Thank you!

whipperwill In my experience, having just completed construction on a brand new custom home, as the homeowner / client you should research the prices of the materials and fixtures you choose. The prices quoted to us by our contractor were MUCH higher than we could purchase the items ourselves at retail prices. Needless to say, we bought most of the appliances / fixtures / tiles / flooring ourselves, and I would NOT recommend our contractor to anyone!

3D-Tile-Design - Bertram Tasch But always make sure you compare apples with apples! ☺

whipperwill Oh absolutely, Bertram - we were giving them the model numbers of specific items we wanted, and getting back grossly inflated pricing.

fredericklc About 8 years ago my husband and I considered moving. After discussing it for months we finally decided that we could not possibly find as much house as we had for anywhere near the amount of money we had in ours and we decided to do some remodeling. The biggest job involved building upstairs and downstairs porches that run the length of our house. I'll never forget coming home to the sight of a huge hole in the upper story of our house where the large picture window had been removed to move in the double french doors. With no porch built yet it looked like our house had been bombed. I can laugh now but at the time I was stunned. Everything turned out fine and our porches (the upper one is roofed) added loads of living space to our home and really jazzed up the appearance. Altho' it was a costly addition, we have never regretted it for one moment.

Fine Art & Portraits by Laurel Good tips and fun illustrations

umlungu Google SketchUp is a great tool for working with ideas - the basic version is free, and one can work very accurately and to scale (with luck, an architect can import the file into his system - just make sure your measurements are absolutely correct then!). The interface is easy to learn and there are good tutorials available.

We are in the process of renovating a 1950 house, and being able to model the whole place is a great time-saver and a huge help with making decisions.

ccompanions Excellent! Building/remodeling is a team sport. Everyone needs to play their position and have respect for their coach and teammates. It's always better when you play "nice"!

JAN MOYER KUDOS Kenny! As a designer I will say...if only people listened. You'll love this one. I have clients who bought a flawed fixer upper two years ago. After much meeting, talking, and planning and picking, they got right to the signing moment for their new kitchen cabinets and choked. I was highly annoyed, as I had been down this road with them before in their farmhouse. All involved went their own ways, and that was the end of that ridiculous waste of time.
Clock forward two years, I get an email from hubby. He needs help. Pleeeeeze!! He runs the show in this family. After shaking my virtual finger at him in warning, I end up back at the house yet again......and discover he has GUTTED the kitchen and master bath. Repeat gutted- to- the- studs and subfloor. "Where's the plan?" I ask quietly?
"That's why I called you... there is no plan, and I am stuck, and I can't figure out how to lay it out..." I said" Wellllll! My answer is the same as two years ago... the door has to go, the powder room has to move, the kitchen goes to the other end........etc" He's in except for he doesn't want to lose a door. "I REPEAT. YOU CAN NOT FIX THE PROBLEM, BY LEAVING OUT THE SOLUTION". The next morning, I put all on paper AGAIN....return to the house to review with the couple. It is actually a better plan than my first with some minor tweaking.
Before I have even begun to launch (again) into the why's and whatnots, which include "do it right, or don't do it" he is yelling at me " I am not sure I want to spend that kind of money. It just isn't that important."
INCREDULOUS!!!.... I screamed right back. "Well la di da!!! I DO think you should have thought of that before you gutted it, as to put material and labor into a thing, and get the same crappy result/ layout/poor use of space you began with, certainly sounds like GENIUS to me!!! and my rant continued to include "don't waste your money, and don't waste my time. The designer who can help you has not yet been BORN!".......
My cabinet maker keeps calling to see where we are..." he's thinking" is my answer.
Note to contractors and designers... some folks just can not be helped. It's like trying to teach a pig to sing. It wastes time... and annoys the pig. Not my words, but wise words indeed.

helenefroula I like the frankness of the author and the gentle way he states things that he thinks might "sound harsh." People need to hear this!

MCAI Excellent and to the point! I am considering sharing this with some clients who need to hear it.

JAN MOYER Whipperwill: A contractor has expenses, which include insurances of all types, and subs to pay, and hidden material/supply costs you likely would not even consider. An organized, professional contractor knows what he must pay himself, just to stay in business. If some of his profit is not in your chosen materials, the profit will be in something else. Contractors are like all others in business. They don't do what they do to help you out... they do it for a living and PROFIT. Be clear upfront, as to who is providing what. As a designer, I highly recommend to clients that they NOT purchase on their unless they would like to be responsible for all aspects involved, which include pick ups, deliveries, faulty parts, missing parts, late arrivals, timing of delivery...etc. Because I delegate that nasty responsibility to the contractor.

olldbobbi Jan Moyer - I totally agree! Not to mention payroll taxes, quarterly taxes, equipment maintenance, office staff and equipment.....the list goes on. It boggles the mind how they even figure out accurately what their overhead costs are.

On the flip side, a GOOD contractor is willing to back up his work. The inept contractor that flipped our house would agree to only fix the one item that was out of code. All the rest of the mistakes and just plain poor workmanship he or his subs did? Well, I got a really nasty letter from him saying the house was sold as is, and tough on the rest of it. And it was one really nasty letter. Thank goodness for Angie' List.

JAN MOYER Bobbi, Sorry your experience was a poor one. I do think the best method is to put an interior designer between you and the contractor, and USE the contractor a designer recommends. Failing that, a referral from a friend who has successfully completed a project, with an experienced contractor she enjoyed working with. All the contractors I know guard their reputations zealously .... in the end, it is the only thing they really sell.

jamma33 We had an agreement with our contractor, as my husband has access to many products, that we could supply our own when it was cost beneficial. Also, since our prices were so good on some things, we actually bought things for our contractor for his future projects!

Margaret There are some things you may want to buy yourself. On our recent project we bought the tile ourselves after figuring out that buying it ourselves was going to be much easier. It did mean that we were responsible for making sure there was enough tile and coping with the problem when there wasn't.

We were originally going to have the contractor buy tile we specified. We pretty quickly figured out how unworkable that was going to be. We started picking tile way in advance of needing it. We were very worried about the tile - not because there isn't always an appropriate tile available somewhere but because the design process with the architect had taught us some things about ourselves. The contractor understandably wasn't inclined to buy tile piecemeal starting before the contract was signed. Once it was signed we needed tile with long lead times to be ordered more or less immediately. If we hadn't done it already we would have been in a world of pain.

We found picking out tile difficult and time consuming, and we had to work visits to the tile store around our work schedules. We like natural stone, so we would see some we liked but a few weeks later it would be gone and something similar but not quite the same would be in it's place. After a couple frustrating rounds we started buying the tile ourselves room by room. We had several bathrooms and a kitchen. We were very happy we did this in spite of the fact that when the tile store's estimate for the backsplash turned out to be a little off it was our problem. For us it was the right thing to do.

The whole experience did make us much much better at shopping for things together. At some point we stopped wasting our time discussing things that one of us loved and the other disliked. We just move on. This cuts out lots of time.

ikarla This is helpful. But as a do-it-yourself homeowner, I am terrified to hire a contractor. I have done plumbing, tiling, building, etc., but I have a whole home project that I just don't want to tackle by myself. I am so scared to 1, give over control, and 2, get taken advantage of. I know what I want, I know what style and fixtures, general layout etc. that I want and am willing to do the work to get them. I am also willing to listen to ideas. I just don't know what to ask before hiring and what to expect. And I would want to be present at key times during the work because I want high quality (not to be a pain or to chat).There are way too many stories of bad hires. I have friends who recommended their contractor because they liked him, but the finishing work I saw just wasn't very good. I want my contractor to be friendly and good at his job. Is that too much? I know there are no guarantees, so I just keep putting off the project because of the fear.

JAN MOYER Ikaria, I think you should ask any reputable contractor about the "homeowner workmanship" he encounters. I can assure you his horror stories will top yours.
A reputable contractor does not need your constant supervision
If you were as experienced as one who does it daily, you would not require help
Nothing is worse than a client ready to assume the worst from the person they just hired
Unfortunately, I can see why you are stuck.

ikarla Jan, I don't doubt the contractor has a huge number of horror stories, but I don't need to hear them. it's not a contest. I don't want to assume the worst and that's the frustrating part. I want to find a reputable contractor and I think the hard part-knowing when you've found one. And to clarify, I did say key times, not a constant presence. In most jobs there are some sort quality checks.

Margaret Jan, Ikaria,

Although a good contractor doesn't require your supervision, it's important to find a contractor whose ideas about suitable levels of both finish and construction quality match yours. Everything is a tradeoff, and it's hard to know what questions to ask if you aren't a building professional. Visit projects and talk to people, and pick a contractor whose standard practices match the quality level you want. This is particularly important if you don't want the local average.

build18 # 11 and should be # 1 : make sure you have all necessary permits BEFORE you begin any work. You will be surprised at all the permits which many municipalities require even for the simplest work. You may think that a simple window replacement or plumbing fixture relocation doesn't need a permit ... Wrong ! Permits will add a cost and additional time to any remodel but it's better than a Stop Work Order and a hefty penalty...... been there .....

JAN MOYER Absolutely agreed! And be willing to PAY. It is my experience as a designer, that the single most common reason people "enjoy" doing the work themselves, is less about ensuring the quality of their "finishing" and more about saving money. Nothing wrong with ANY reason for going it alone. Just know that time involved is $$$ involved, unless you are working on a "labor of love" in your OWN home. As the saying goes... "price, quality, delivery/finish time...pick two! : )"

marep Anytime I have gotten estimates from contractors, none of them include most of the materials, with the exception of things like sheet rock, nails, glue, etc. They don't want to be bothered picking stuff up or getting involved in selection. For my bathrooms, for ex., I had to purchase the tile, the sinks, toilets, shower door, lighting, -everything- on my own! Meanwhile, I work full-time and find it very hard to find the time to buy everything. The contractors don't want the hassle of returning things if there is a problem, also. And, I find that in most cases, the contractor will use what is easiest for him or what he can make the most money on with whatever deals he has with his suppliers-but not what the homeowner necessarily wants.

JAN MOYER Ikaria, you mentioned "fixtures" in your comment, so I am going to assume you have some bath/kitchen work you are planning. Despite you "know what you want", I would suggest that you consult a reputable interior designer. Failing that, that you visit a VERY HIGH QUALITY kitchen/ bath showroom in your area. Choose one that handles all the cabinetry aspects. They will not only help you plan by listening to your wish list, they are a source for an excellent contractor. Very helpful if you are armed with a list of desired apps or fixtures, and then allow them into your home for hard measuring and planning. A contractor is not best used as your designer, and your pricing from him will be MOST accurate when you are armed with a solid plan. The plan can come from an interior designer, the kitchen/bath sources I mentioned, or a combination of all "three heads", inclusive of yours.

Linda Picking a contractor is a lot like picking a spouse...flirt with several, date a few then have the serious "are we right for each other" conversation with one or possibly two people. Before you can do a good job picking a contractor you have to be able to specify what factors are more important and which are less important, then interview contractors to try to figure out where they fit. The best contractor is the one that is the closest match to your project priorities, not the cheapest guy or even the guy who does the best quality work. If your style is alphabetized cleaning supplies, look for a contractor with meticulous records, and a superbly organized truck. If you are the artistic type with flashes of inspiration, strange hours, and a crazy studio, don't pick that contractor because you will only drive each other nuts.

There are three main facets to any project: the work (quality and scope), the schedule, and the price. You must have one main priority, and one secondary, and the third one must float to fit in to the demands of the other two. If you demand highest quality work on a standard budget, you can do it but expect the project to drag on and on waiting for the slow times in each person's schedule. If you have a strict timeframe, expect to cut back on the work to be accomplished or really plan on spending more money to compensate the contractor for the additional hassles of working within your schedule. If schedule is most important, use deadline penalties in the contract. If work quality is the most important, don't be upset when schedules slip.

fethdarman Wow JW, you sure are a wimp. Why don't you try being a man. From reading your ramblings It's obvious you don't like dogs.

What kind of person don't like dogs?

JAN MOYER I am going to add a tip: The more organized, relentlessly purged of clutter your home is at the beginning of a project, the more you will get SAME care/ work style from a contractor. This includes your garage, which on most interior projects, will be used for staging materials, fixtures, and supplies. Basically, at the start of any project, it is very helpful to pretend you are moving! I have seen too many clients, who despite warning, insist on having life go on uninterrupted. Big or small, every improvement is disruptive . Plan for it, and you will be disrupted for a lot less time. With better results, AND living conditions through the process.

Linda Don't forget to be positive and welcoming. Although the contractor is being paid for the job, try to make it a job site he wants to work at. It's a lot easier to get that little extra bit of care and attention if the contractor knows you appreciate him and his team. Don't complain about the guy not coming in until afternoon...instead thank him for making the effort to get a half day's work done at your site. Sometimes you have to criticize, ask for something to be fixed or redone, or complain about some behavior, but pick your battles carefully or you will become the customer from hell that gets pushed way down the priority list.

A pot of coffee in the mornings or a shared beer while the job site is getting cleaned up, some fresh baked cookies, bottled water in a cooler, and extra effort to provide plenty of work and storage space should not cost you much. Those good deeds often return to you with good recommendations for other services, small problems just miraculously getting fixed, a jump start for your car, a heavy piece of furniture moved, etc.

lebutterfield Here's my dilemma... My husband and I bought tiles, fixtures and some other materials over a year ago with the full intention of our shower being a DIY project. Throughout the year, I had major surgery from which I am still recovering (I cannot help now) and my husband has been sent on several two-week deployments for the Air Force. He is also now somewhat my caretaker for the foreseeable future.

Hubby was able to do the plumbing, redo the subfloor (there was a tub but we took it out to make a large shower), and he has built up to the wonderboard. So we need a contractor to complete the walls and shower floor and then tile and install frameless doors. I suppose my question/concern at this point is whether we could even find a contractor who would be willing to finish the job since they didn't start it...and I don't want someone who is rolling his eyes at my husband for doing what he has done so far, as he and his dad are not DIY rookies. Are we stuck with having it all undone just to have it completed?

riconsd Ms. Moyer,

The contractor makes money on every dollar spent, so their overhead is covered in every hammer swing. If I source a 50's O'Keefe & Merritt stove, pay to get it restored, do you honestly think I should pay the contractor their vig? The plumber will get their cut for installation, but my time is worth as much as any one else.

I have dealt with professionals that have wagged their finger at me; I hired him to rent my house because I was on the other side of the world, but he lost out on a $32k commission when I sold it it after the lease ran out.

Other options exist for major home projects. Currently we are remodeling the main ranch house and building two cottages, so we hired a semi retired contractor on a per hour basis recommended by the local Lumber Yard. He coordinates we write checks, and I hit every Habitat for Humanity Restore from San Diego to Paso Robles for everything from joist hangers to wc's.


At the end of the day it is my checkbook, my house, and I am the one that lives there.

JAN MOYER riconsd,

"The contractor makes money on every dollar spent, so their overhead is covered in every hammer swing" ...
Is that a problem that he should "cover" his overhead,( ?) as one would logically assume he needs to do that before he makes a thin dime. If you can hire someone for labor/ time alone you can also be assured he will price it accordingly, to "cover" and profit. What a dirty word that profit word is. You are paying for expertise hopefully, and often for a few decades of the experience required to achieve that expertise. You most often get exactly what you pay for. As the homeowner and funder of the project, you may obviously choose per your particular preferences. .... but personally I want people to profit, or soon there would be nobody to actually do the work.
I will add that no contractor has ever asked a homeowner to justify his home or income, but ask any contractor how often the same question is posed to him, not so thinly veiled in requests for breakdowns of every nail, and bucket of drywall that will be used on a project.....

riconsd Mame,

My apologies for forgetting overhead does not include profit. So please let me edit my comment: ...the contractor makes their overhead AND PROFIT in every hammer swing.

And I am paying them therefore they are employees.

Now do you have anything for my other 4 points you would like to rebut?

What I don't understand is why home owner accept one line bids. When I create an invoice it is detailed down to the number of copies. The mechanic's covers parts and labor. Would any taxpayer be happy with the gvt. accepting a bill for $1,200,000 for a B2 bomber radar sys refit, or would they rather have the project's work order accountable down to the last rivet, washer and 6 minutes of labor? I personally don't see a request for good accounting procedures as a thinly veiled threat just good business in a rapidly changing market.

btw when did drywall start to come by the bucket?

Jason Shepard I REALLY dislike #4 and #9. This is MY HOUSE we are talking about. I am going to LIVE THERE. What part of that is so hard for employees to understand? If I want a kitchen that far outdoes the neighborhood average, that is my choice - it's what I want, period. If I want to rehab a home/warehouse/whatever rather than demolishing it, even if demolishing it would be money better spent, it's MY MONEY and it's my choice. I despise contractors, architects, designers, etc. that come into MY PROJECT, seeing that I already have CAD designs drawn up for it and most of the finishing supplies (faucets, door handles, etc) bought and then try to tell me that my way isn't right "according to the market and local comps." I really, truly, completely DON'T CARE about the market or about local comps. It's going to be my home and I want to ENJOY it.

I apologize for all the emphasis caps, but there are obviously some employees in this world that just don't get the concept of being an employee and don't understand what I've emphasized here. I've fired 3 contractors, 2 designers, and 1 architect on my most recent job. We've given up and my father and I are doing it ourselves the way we want. I'm tired of so-called "professionals" telling me what to do with my house based on a market and neighborhood comps that I could care less about. Come in, do the job you are being paid for, and get out or don't bid the project. I've even said all of this UP FRONT to those that I requested bids from and I told them UP FRONT I would fire them if they argued with me on any of the points I've brought up in this post. Yet, they all seem compelled to tell me what to do based on those two nasty concepts: market and neighborhood (and a smattering of "cost analysis" when they determine that the building isn't worth saving even though they bid on the project). I really wish we could go back to the days when you could get something done the way you wanted it instead of having to fight every single step of the way and waste tons of time/money...

When did EMPLOYEES become the bosses???

Pangaea Interior Design, Portland, OR Oh yeah, #10 should be in the #1 spot, but otherwise a great post. With a thorough design and planning phase you eliminate or minimize most problems. If your design is well-thought-out then you are far less likely to end up making expensive mid-remodel changes. With preliminary shopping you will have an educated understanding of what finish materials, fixtures and appliances really cost, so you'll be better able to judge when people are dealing straight with you. And NOBODY -- not the contractor, not the interior designer, not the architect, and not your friends -- can tell you how much your project is going to cost until you have a detailed plan.

Regarding how to find a contractor (or interior designer or architect) for your particular project: There are good, bad and mediocre professionals in all walks of life. There are professionals with whom you will be able to communicate well and others who you'll be frustrated with. Taking time to really talk with any professional under consideration will help you to know if your communication style is working which is crucial. Be sure to look at their portfolio, and don't be shy about asking for and calling references to ask how their projects went.

Regarding the DIY people who get stuck and then call in a professional. Yes, you may have a harder time finding someone who will come finish up your project. That doesn't mean that nobody will ... you just may have to make more calls. And let them know you don't want to be lectured, but do be open to hear their honest, professional assessment of the work you've done so far. Many DIY-ers do a great job that a contractor can run with. If a contractor tells you they are going to have to re-do what you did, nobody will blame you for getting a second opinion. But if 3 or 4 reputable contractors have all told you that your work has to be re-done/corrected/improved before they can do the remaining work, then believe them and hire one to do it. Don't just keep calling until you find someone to tell you what you want to hear and who will do their work over something not done properly to begin with.

Regarding who purchases what: Properly done by a reputable contractor or interior designer, we buy at wholesale prices which the client cannot get and with our margin, the client should end up paying generally the same as or less than what they would if they went out to buy all the stuff themselves. The tile/plumbing/flooring/whatever stores are all selling you those products for more than they paid too. If you've done preliminary shopping to familiarize yourself with pricing, then you'll be able to spot any red flags if you think someone is gouging you. Just be sure that your understanding with your contractor or designer is that you approve purchases before they are made and you are told how much you will pay before orders are placed.

That said ... resist the urge to "shop" your professional. If you've done your homework, you'll know if they are charging you fair prices. There will always be someplace -- online probably -- that will shave a little bit off the price. Know that the cheapest place to buy something is not actually ... well, ... not actually the cheapest place to buy. Those few dollars "saved" can turn into countless hours of you having to deal with messed up orders, products delivered with broken or missing parts, batches or lots that don't match in color or style, hours on the phone with customer disservice departments who don't give a fig about you and your single tiny order. A good contractor or interior designer will strive to do business repeatedly with reputable wholesale vendors who care very much if our orders have issues and will work quickly to resolve them because they want to do business with us over and over again, year after year.

I'm not saying that nobody should ever make their own purchases ... just that there is a real value to having your professional handle purchases that you may not have thought of

JAN MOYER RICONSD, drywall COMPOUND, and yes I omitted a word. I do think my point is lost on you, but to each his own. And when you say your time is worth something, I believe you have to ask yourself, what is YOUR major skill/endeavor and would your time and money be more efficiently spent, by allowing one expert to efficiently handle the entire process. You are clearly of a different mindset, as is your right. When you are running to every Habitat between someplace and wherever, add your time, gas, lunch, wear and tear on the truck, and think about what else you may have been better off doing. While you're there you may as well purchase the nails I would think, and that way, you will know there was no waste, or hoarding of materials. Seriously, a contractor must be reasonably competitively priced, and if he has a considerably higher bid than several others, can be refused, can explain his quality, provide a reason.... or maybe.... he doesn't want that particular job. As is HIS right.

riconsd Ms Moyer,

I am glad to see that you also are fallible.

I enjoy going to the Restores so it is recreation for me, also it helps save resources, so supplying the nails is a good idea, thx. As for your concern about my time and the wear and tear on my pickup, I have got to the point in my life were I can bill about 500 hours a year and make enough to well remodel the family ranch house and build cottages for my sister and aunt, and the trips get rolled into face time with my clients; they like it because they only get billed for half the travel. Oh and I pack my lunch.

I have never had any pro call me difficult, save maybe the short sighted R E broker but I think he used unethical instead. Rather they are happy because I have hands on knowledge (summers high school and college), don't talk to the subs, pay promptly, and keep the job sites clean. I do know what I want and therefore make quick decisions. I hire published designers by the hour to help with scale and incorporate color. And won't be bowled over by those that can't articulate why their way is better and resort to a condescending attitude as cover.

Face it the business model of you pay me and I'll make your place just what you need is out dated. If I wanted that I would move into a hotel.

Above there is an example of a project that went sideways, and it seemed that the principals hadn't come to a meeting of the minds on the scope of the project. What struck me was the door. Why couldn't a door be incorporated for the guy who writes the checks wanted?

In the current economy I have been able to walk in to suppliers and get the same price as contractors just by asking, and have you seen the prices for Toto products on Amazon?

I know not everyone has the time and experience I have, but if they are willing to do the leg work why not let them, it leaves the pro time to work with another client. Or is there double and triple dipping going on?

Did you know that Google's bots index these comments in about 15 minutes?

Linda Multiple changes/no plan projects: remember "It's hard to hit a moving target"

3D-Tile-Design - Bertram Tasch Wow, what a great discussion. I admit, I like the way it goes on. ☺ It is very interesting and I really enjoy all of the comments because it shows the different perspectives of all involved parties like the designers, architects, contractors and clients etc. And some people pointed out a couple very good points!

I would like to share some of my experiences too. After over 35 years in business and almost 20 years as tile contractor I can say actually everybody here is right with his comment/statement.

There are always black sheep’s and you can find them everywhere, under the designers, architects, contractors and also under the clients. And nobody is protected to engage in the sh….

However everybody can (and I highly recommend) everyone should do his homework! Linda made a very good point by saying: “Picking a contractor is a lot like picking a spouse” This appears to the designers and contractors too. If the chemistry is not right, the results can’t it be either. At the end EVERYBODY should be happy. This is at least what our company is trying to accomplish with every single client and most of the times we achieve it. However as JAN MOYER clearly pointed out: “... some folks just cannot be helped. It's like trying to teach a pig to sing. It wastes time... and annoys the pig.”

For all Homeowners:
Education is expensive and it needs time too. And at this “education time” the contractor cannot work to earn money rather than he spends money (And sometimes it is a lot money!). In my case, (I am a German Tile, Stone Slab and Mosaic Setter Master) I have already spent more than $200,000.00 for my own education and in addition to this countless hours. And I keep going doing this because every year comes out new products and technologies. And not infrequently a Company which is today pronouncing their new product or technology as the best on the market, is correcting his statement tomorrow because there were some unexpected side or negative effects. This is totally normal however as a contractor, architect or designer you have to educate yourself continuously to be aware of it. Unfortunately not many companies do so.

For all DYI’s
I am not saying you can’t do thinks by yourself. I do almost everything by myself. I just learned so many things working together with my Father and other tradespersons. However it is important you make up your mind and know about all the regulations etc. before you start any project. And for some projects it would be definitely better when you hire a real professional. For example tiling is not just what most of the people thinking it is. Believe me, it is way way way more than just spread the thinset and lay the tiles down.

About the pricing and profit.
Everyone has his budget and some homeowners just have enough money to pay a professional. Some of them are good handy men. There are also people they just want to spend any money for professionals and think they can save the money by doing it by themselves. And everything is OK. We are willing to help them all, it only bothers me if someone is trying to exploit me and wants to sell me for stupid.

Many people prefer a flat rate resp. a fixed price for their project. But keep in mind, flat rates includes mostly a winner and a looser. And the loser is in most cases not the contractor. A contractor quote based on a flat rate, includes usually the cheapest products to maximize his profit. Furthermore he tries to finish his work very quickly to maximize his profit again. Under no circumstances he won’t lose money, so if he realizes he underestimated the hours he need to do the job, he cuts of the quality to stay in his time frame.

3D-Tile-Design - Bertram Tasch Our concept is different. We think the fairest way for both (the customer and the contractor) is to work on an hourly based rate. It doesn’t mean we will extend the installation time to gain more profit! However it gives us the possibility to do ALL the NECCESARY preparation work which will be essential for an outstanding, long lasting, and worry-free tile installation.

For example:
If we have to fix the sub floor to avoid later on cracks in your floor tiles - we do it properly. And if we have to fix the vapor barrier to avoid moisture which causes mold and mildew behind your tile installation - we do it properly. Furthermore we explain to our customers why it is SOOOOO important to FIX these issues before we can go ahead with tiling. So they clearly understand that covering up issues causes big problems thereafter.

We also perform our tile work differently. Every tile (wall and floor tiles) will be back-buttered to achieve a high bondage to the substrate. This step is not only very important by installing heated floors. (Stress by expansion and shrinking) All to be tiled surfaces MUST be properly prepared like vacuumed, primered and skin-coded with an appropriate bonding agent before the tiles can be installed. And all these steps need more time than just spreading the thinset on the substrate and laying the tiles like most other tile setters would do.

About the materials:
We have no problem at all if the homeowner buys his own material like tiles, sinks, faucets etc. However I highly recommend do not buy any material without consulting your contractor. For example we don’t know what tiles you like or prefer, however we can and will advise you what is possible and what not. We will also provide you with the exact amount of tiles, grout, and Schluter profiles etc. you need. With this information you can go and spend YOUR time to visit the different tile suppliers and chose the tiles you like. It is YOUR time and you don’t have to pay for it. But at the end you will be surprised how much time did you have spent to buy the material of your own. We will only charge you for the time we have spent to provide you with all this information. But there is one exception: We always will provide all the setting materials because only we know what’s the best material for your project and also which is the best for us to work with. For example: The thinset we use on your project cost maybe $50 the sack however it saves us AND YOU a lot of time and headache when we using this thinset instead of using the $15/sack thinset.

And finally here for all the homeowners a Business Cost list, so they can better understand how a contractor has to calculate his price. (Notice: This is not a list made by me. I saw this list in another forum. Not every point on this list reflects every contractors costs however it reflects our costs very well.)

Building
- Warehouse Space
- Trash Removal
- Lawn Care
- Snow removal
- Upkeep & Repairs

Office Expenses
- Computers
- Stationary
- Copy machine
- Fax machine
- Forms
- Printing
- Software
- Office Equipment
- Computer maintenance
- Files
- Postage
- Office Supplies

IT
- Internet service
- Email accounts
- Web site
- Initial creation
- Updating
- Maintenance
- GPS services

Benefits
- Vacation Pay
- Holiday Pay
- Uniforms
- Uniform Maintenance
- Unemployment
- Bonuses
- Incentives
- Retirement Plan
- Christmas Party

Taxes
- Property Taxes
- Tangible Taxes
- Pay Roll Taxes
- Income Taxes
- Sales Tax

Training
- Management Training
- Office Training
- In-House Training
- Tech Training
- Mfg. Training
- Training Equipment
- Safety Training
- Update classes
- License testing
- OSHA compliance
- RRP compliance

Insurance
- Building Insurance
- Liability Insurance
- Employee Insurance
- Life Insurance
- Business Insurance
- Workers Comp.

3D-Tile-Design - Bertram Tasch Utilities
- Gas
- Electricity
- Telephone / Fax lines
- Internet Service
- Toll Calls
- Telephones
- Pagers/Cell Phones
- Radio Maintenance

Vehicles
- Vehicle Maintenance
- Ladder Racks
- Interior bins
- Fuel
- Truck Signs / lettering / vinyl
- Tires

Financial
- Accounting
- Loans
- Tax Preparation
- Interest
- 30+ Day Receivables
- Bank Charges

Travel
- Hotel
- Meals
- Airline / vehicle

Unique to the building trade
- Permits
- Licenses
- Bonds
- Inspections
- Trade Association
- Subscriptions
- Memberships
- Dues
- Retainers
- Safety PPE
- Lock-out/Tag-out kits
- Fall prevention harness
- Arc-flash clothing
- Hard hats
- Safety glasses
- Hearing protection
- Safety Boots

Tools
- Company Tools
- Safety Equipment
- Ladders
- 2-way Radios
- Test Equipment
- Replacement Parts
- Parts Storage
- Damages
- Tool Replacement
- Job site storage

Misc.
- Trips to Supply House
- Theft
- Uncollected Money
- Collection fees
- Unbillable Hours
- Commissions
- Call Backs / Warranty work
- Shortages
- Bad Checks
- Delivery
- Credit Card Sales
- Drug Testing

Legal
- Legal advice
- Law Suits
- Incorporation / LLC fees

Advertising
- Marketing
- Business cards
- Signs
- Radio / TV
- Newspaper
- Flyers / brochures

Material Purchases
Inventory

Labor
- Wages
- Salaries
- Dispatcher

Regards.

3D-Tile-Design - Bertram Tasch
Maple Ridge, BC (Greater Vancouver)
http://www.3D-Tile-Design.ca

shellemm With regard to purchasing your own materials... I know many comments have already been made, some insults have been delivered, and I risk the wrath of experts railing about profit, but my recent experience has shown me that every project has its own unique issues. Our builder (custom homes, high standards and good quality material) is a gem, and an uncontested expert in his domain. He does not have the time or desire to source the faucets, sinks, light fixtures, wall switches and vintage stained glass windows that we wanted. He had his plumber give us a "sample list" of the faucets, sinks and tubs that he usually orders, and we were horrified. The prices were three times what we could get ourselves (same model numbers) and I'm not talking from dodgy online resellers. So I put in over 200 hours of time researching, travelling, ordering, picking up, delivering, and dealing with the companies myself. We saved thousands on the ridiculous prices the plumber quoted, and now the plumber wants to up his installation charges because we didn't order all of the plumbing fixtures through him, paying his markup. This is the problem with one-line item quotes in a contract, as a commenter said earlier. Our builder itemizes all of his costs for us (every joist), but if his subs only give him one-line quotes (i.e. $10,000 for plumbing) then we now have a problem.

If I hadn't sourced some items myself (especially sinks and faucets) then we would have had to settle for products from the only two lines that the plumber uses and at twice the book price. My time and effort was worth money too. If you are writing the cheques, you have a right to a detailed estimate AND to order your own materials when the builder or subs either can't supply what you want, or won't supply it at a reasonable mark-up. Yes, you do take on all responsibility for delivering the items on time to suit the builder's schedule. But you should absolutely not be penalized for it. And before somebody plays the "hire a designer" card, there are no designers within 300 kilometres of where we live.

ae2ga Thanks for this ideabook, and I'm very much looking forward to reading the other 90 tips.

I have to say I have a problem with contractors purchasing some products and materials, espcially with the argument that they do so because they use reputable vendors who are concerned about the contractor's repeat business. I'm really happy that contractors can make money - it's why they're at the job, not to be my friend and join me for tea and cookies, but to make a living by providing a service-- I get that. I work so that I can earn a living; they work so that they can earn a living. BUT - while the contractor is at the job to make money, my primary concern is having the house I want, not the house that the contractor wants to give me. There can be conflict in motivation of the homeowner and contractor. So often I see and read about contractors who object to the client purchasing products and materials or making suggesting/requiring a particular method, but it appears that many contractors are stuck in the "I've-always-done-it-this-way" mode of thinking.

Though there are many new - and better - methods that are proven to be more effective, with the I've-always-done-it-this-way, always-used brand-xyz, client must choose from my limited list of supplies at my mark-up thinking, some contractors don't want to even listen to anything other than what they've always done. For instance, I wanted the first part of my renovation to start from the studs out, yet before I began the project, several contractors I spoke to acted as if I should have no say in things like types of insulation or windows, that my concerns and opinions were not relevant until we were discussing finishes. They wanted to tell me what they were going to do, and I should accept their words as final. And while I did accept his word on some things, there were others where he had to accept mine - without grousing or trying to overcharge because it was not his way.

In spite of the fact that building science and modern technology indicates otherwise and recommends numerous ways to improve energy efficiency, the first several contractors I talked to had no interest in even hearing what I had to say - none of those new fangled ways are better than tried and true (one guy really did use the words "new fangled" as a disparaging remark about closed cell spray foam); I'd be out of line with the other houses in the neighborhood; it's really not necessary to do all that; you just leave that to me; no one has ever told me what type of insulation to use.

My contractor was highly recommended and fully researched, and even though we discussed the things that caused problems BEFORE he bid on the job and BEFORE he wrote the contract, there were still problems. I felt rather like he said he was fine with what I wanted but knew that he could do what he wanted anyway. Once we ironed out that would not the case, things went much smoother, but it was definitely a source of contention in the beginning in spite of the contract.

Here's the thing - when we read online, posts like these usually only have the problems with contractors, but rarely will we read about the contractor who does everything right. And so contractors get a bad rap - all contractors get the bad reputation for the problems only a few of them cause. Add to that the numerous DIY shows and magazines (I'm a big fan of Fine Home Building myself), the sheer availibility of information, clients can enter the remodeling/renovation process with far more knowledge than in previous years, and they expect contractors to understand and be willing to work with newer methods and materials. I didn't walk into my renovation with no understanding of what materials are needed behind the walls nor what finishes I wanted and the costs - I expected my contractor to understand and work with that.

jazzcattx Mr. Tasch,

Hello and thank you for encompassing my concerns in your replies. I can definitely understand that any tile contractor would want to be certain that the foundation was done properly so that he or she could guarantee the work with confidence. We haven't started asking yet, so I was just concerned that I would start getting "no's" right away and wondered how you might handle such a request.

I must say, however, that while I appreciate that you have overhead costs, and that we would happily pay for a qualified contractor's considerable skills and experience in addition to labor and materials, your extensive list simply includes "the cost of doing business."

Most of the things listed are well known to customers and unspoken in normal transactions...and we assume they are figured into the contracts you write. Otherwise, you would not be able to afford to stay in business. All businesses have these general costs and their own industry specific costs, so I always find it a bit insulting to my intelligence as a consumer for a vendor to use this to justify whatever they want to charge. It sounds defensive and it makes me suspicious, like a diversion that will make me research the vendor's line items that much harder to make certain everything is as it seems to be.

Again, thank you for including me in this conversation. You have given me some great insight from the contractor's point of view and it will help me to be more considerate of and thougtful about who I choose.

3D-Tile-Design - Bertram Tasch Hello ae2ga,

I like your comment and I wished all my customers were like you because only this type of customers is open for new technics and materials. And on the other hand this gives us the possibility to work with those new materials by using the new technics. ☺

However as I mentioned in my article before: "Sometimes a Company which is today pronouncing their new product or technology as the best on the market, is correcting his statement tomorrow because there are some unexpected side or negative effects." So be aware there is always a bit of a risk by using brand new materials and installation technics. But in most cases the new material has way better characteristics like clost cell Styrofoam for example and it is most of the time easier to work with.

I have also an example for "I've-always-done-it-this-way" and "I am not thinking about what I am doing."

As I mentioned before I am from Germany and we don't have heating systems and hot water tanks like here in North America anymore. This technique is pretty outdated. Our heating systems are all high efficiency and have an efficiency rating of 95% and more and the hot water will ONLY "produced" when nedeed. Here in North America most of the hot water tanks provide 24/7/365 hot water regardless of needed or not.

So when a hot water tank brakes, neither the customer ask the plumber: "Hey plumber what's new on the market to replace my dated hot water tank for a more energy efficient system nor the plumber offers it to the customer because he didn't educate himself what is the newest available technic and finally the plumber installs exact the same water heating system and the customer gets the same inefficient water tank as he had before. "He-has-always-done-it-this-way" and he will do it as long he is in business.

!!! Customers please wake up !!!

Regards.

3D-Tile-Design - Bertram Tasch
Maple Ridge, BC (Greater Vancouver)
http://www.3D-Tile-Design.ca

3D-Tile-Design - Bertram Tasch Hello jazzcattx,

You wrote: "...I always find it a bit insulting to my intelligence as a consumer for a vendor to use this to justify whatever they want to charge"

I like what you wrote. Every customer should use his brain and investigate the price which was given to him before he accept it. And usually the people do it, at least when they buy a car or when they buy or rent a house. Hereby they inform themselves whether the price they should pay is customary or not.

And they should do the same with their contractor(s) by asking them lots of questions to figure out what they get for their money, what material he will use and how he will perform his work.

You also wrote: "We haven't started asking yet, so I was just concerned that I would start getting "no's" right away and wondered how you might handle such a request." I always appreciate such requests. Don't be afraid to ask, it's your right and it is YOUR house and YOUR money. So don't be shy. ☺

Like Linda said: "Picking a contractor is a lot like picking a spouse...flirt with several, date a few then have the serious "are we right for each other" conversation with one or possibly two people."

Regards.

3D-Tile-Design - Bertram Tasch
Maple Ridge, BC (Greater Vancouver)
http://www.3D-Tile-Design.ca

ae2ga @ Betram - ironic that you should mention water heaters as the water heater was not only one of the biggest problems but also the final show down. I specificed a particular tankless water heater and was open to a different brand tankless of equal quality and energy efficiency, but the contractor's plumber installed a regular tank. I was livid. When asked why, the contractor told me his plumber didn't install tankless. My response: get a different plumber. So he ended up taking out the tank, getting a different plumber, installing the tankless - all is well. And it was until he tried to charge me for the tank and labor and removal as well as the tankless and its installation - that was ugly, but, after that incident, we had a heart-to-heart talk, and there were no more problems of that sort.

My preference is to always be agreeable and have cordial working relationships - that only works for me sometimes. Being agreeable and allowing myself to be taken advantage of are two entirely different things. I don't actually know who paid for the initial water heater and the subsequent work, but it wasn't me. That sort of thing should have never happened. I was not at all interested in what the contractor was willing to give or thought I should be satisfied with. As someone else mentioned, this is MY house and I want it to be the way I want it, and I was paying to make it so. I sure as heck wasn't paying not to get what I wanted.

I read all of the time - no change orders, change orders mean additional time, change orders mean additional cost. I planned so there would be no changes (and I didn't make even one because I knew what I wanted before we started); unfortunately, until the above incident, my contractor did not have the same plan I did. We didn't have anymore misunderstandings after that, but what a debacle.

bonngunk Great tips. Will save this one!

lebutterfield As a side note, my first post was listed under lebutterfield. My second was under jazzcattx. That is what I was referring to when saying thank you for including my concerns. Sorry for the confusion. :-)

LOCZIdesign #10, "Don't work without a design" is a huge for us, no?! This is an article every home owner should take a look at. Thanks for sharing!

missarix I think this article is GREAT! I work for a general contractor and know this is something he would love to share with his customers. I would love to see an article similar to this one with tips for customers on building a home.

JAN MOYER Missarix,
When you're going to build, whether truly custom, or spec, or a customized to you spec:
The most important thing is to decide your drop dead budget number.
Scrutinize your floor plan with the help of a good interior designer, well in advance of the first deposit check, or shovel. It is worth every nickel. If I had a penny for every problem built INTO a house by an unassuming homeowner, I would be fabulously wealthy. The spec builder is NOT your best source for this help. Sorry, but true. Be VERY wary of "free design consultation" from the builder. I have "fixed" these homes over and over again. I will get beaten for that comment, but it is generally more than true. SORRY!!! !!! And even architects are often more concerned with looks, than how a room will actually function for a family. You CAN have function and good looks that suit YOU.
Decide to the best of your ability, the ultimate design "flavor" of the home. I say this, as you will be asked for decisions regarding lighting, plumbing fixtures, cabinetry etc...and even paint, carpet, well in advance of what will seem logical. A designer can be most helpful in aiding you in choices that will make sense with your desired end outcome, and also help you choose where to splurge, and where to save.
Upgrades: You are given selections from a builder. You choose your own. You believe the difference between the two items will be you upgrade, or credit.......NO. Not true. Get in writing, the method for changing/upgrading selections. BEFORE you put a shovel in the dirt.
Changes ARE DEATH TO THE BUDGET. Get help with the floor plan, well in advance. There is no amount of time you can spend on it, WITH help, that is too much time.
GET A SCHEDULE of what choices will be required of you, and WHEN. You hardly need a phone call at work, saying "hey, we need you for electrical walk through this afternoon!"
Most important, again.... design help, which/who will consider ALL of these and more, and smooth the entire process, right down to the last duplex and door swing. It's a major undertaking, and you will live with your results for a long time.

Hobus Homes Excellent article! Thanks for sharing!

missarix Jan Moyer,

Thanks for the response! My husband and I just bought a lot and plan to build in a few years. Your comments are so helpful and absolutely appreciated. I was aware of budgeting and how important that final number is, but I hadn't thought of meeting with an interior designer so soon. It sounds like a great idea to be ahead of the game! Thanks again.

JAN MOYER misarix,
Let me add one thing. Building a home is a lot like buying a new car, only far more permanent! The house you want in the end is the glossy photo in the car pamphlet. The spec house, with builder choices is GENERALLY, the base model, sans the leather seats! So you can safely assume you like the "car" that is 350.00 per square foot, and the builder is offering you the one that is about 225.00 per square foot ( adjust to your region)!
You can see how quickly a number could escalate when you have good tastes and a wish list! There is NO amount of planning on any aspect that is too much, and whatever good design help may cost, is always worth it in mistakes avoided. There will still be "mistakes", but they will be the "no biggie" variety. There are no perfect people, no perfect home sites, no perfect builders, and no perfect homeowners. No AMOUNT of money will make any house 100% perfect, as no such thing exists. Believe that, it is fact. What you want, is the most suitable, comfortable, best looking house you can afford, with the least amount of hand wringing and stress along the process. GET HELP!!

whipperwill Shellemm - thank you for your comment - this is EXACTLY what I was referring to. The so-called 'trade discount' pricing that we were quoted by our contractor's wholesale appliance company for our appliance package was thousands of dollars higher than the prices my husband and I were able to get by walking into our local chain store and paying retail. This is for the exact same brands and model numbers and features, and the chain store held the appliances for us for months before we needed them on site, same as the wholesaler would have done.

Why should we have paid the grossly over-inflated prices, PLUS a 15% markup from our contractor? Our contractor wasn't going to DO anything for his markup - didn't meet with the wholesaler, didn't negotiate anything, didn't store the appliances, didn't pick them up and deliver them to site, and didn't even install them, because that was part of the plumbing subcontract. It was a blatant cash grab, and we refused to cave in to their bullying tactics to try to get us to use their suppliers. This happened over and over again, with all our fixtures and finish materials.

They refused to give us pricing for individual items, so that we could judge whether our budget would allow for it, but instead tried to lump everything into 'allowance' categories with no itemization. They would try to say, "Oh, your flooring allowance is $18,000, and we'll let you know if you exceed that amount once you've chosen your materials from our recommended suppliers." Great, and then when I choose an inexpensive laminate that only costs the contractor $9,000, the contractor still charges me $18,000 for the category and pockets the difference. I don't think so!!

3D-Tile-Design - Bertram Tasch @ lebutterfield / jazzcattx
Thanks for enlightening me. Indeed I was a bit confused. I thought I missed a part. ☺

Kenny Grono I want to thank everyone who has taken the time to post comments on this article. I think the discussion has been great. I am a contractor who works on custom home remodeling, so I see things from that perspective, but it is great to hear the perspective of homeowners, designers and new home builders. Every situation is different and so are the relationships between contractors, owners and designers. An ongoing, open and honest dialogue between all parties involved is essential, as is a good contract, which I'll be discussing in the 3rd part of this series.

jendepaoli great article! I needed to know this!

Daniel Contelmo Architects This is getting to the point.
I try to advise my clients how to behave during construction. To let the communication go through the Architect to the builder and back . Most importantly - make payments on time to show good faith and keep the job rolling. Thanks for using some of my photos. - Dan

astraea I agree with all of the recommendations, other than the "Don't Live in the Home" part .. although I can understand where that's coming from. I think it depends on how much work is being done, and what parts of your house are being affected. I'm hoping to renovate the bathroom between the guest bedroom & my office; it's only used when I have overnight guests. It will be inconvenient in my office, but I'm not planning to move out of the house!

munsong Excellent article. My husband and I failed on a few of these suggestions.We designed the house and ony had a draftsman draw the plans so we could get our permits. To begin with, my husband acted as the site manager, and lived in a travel trailor on site 24/7. We hired all the sub contractors, mostly recommended by our carpenter. He received a big surprise when his "buddy" electrician put a bid at 50% higher than anyone else. He just sat there and wondered how many jobs had he had lost by having his buddy jacking prices sky high included in quotes. We only changed our minds once after the plumber asked why we weren't putting a sink in hubby's basement workshop. As for buying supplies - we did it all. We chose a new building centre that had expanded into our area and now our carpenter deals only there! All light & plumbing fixtures, windows, doors etc. were all bought well in advanced. The recomended other sub we didn't use was for my kitchen, they had fired the designer/ installer we liked unfortunately after we had put a deposit down. If my husband hadn't stayed on site the kitchen would never have been finished- it took longer to built than our 2200 sq. foot home. Would we do it again? Yes without hesitation.

shawnaleeah Wow. Opinionated stuff. I have to say to the interior designer who is intent on 'educating' everyone on their future mistakes: back off. People aren't foolish for trying to save thousands of dollars learning about home renovations on their own. Yes, you may offer valuable input but it's their home. Let them make their own decisions. Live and let live.

housebuilduk Fantastic ideas.

JAN MOYER shawnaleeah,
I am happy to let folks make their own decisions, also their own mistakes! The problem is after they do, is when they call, in a panic, for help. It sickens me, and I do believe it sickens other designers as well, that many of these "uh oh!" moments would have been so easy to avoid, but are expensive to fix, and therefore often impossible impossible to fix. Examples? The mud entrance that is far too small, the front stair literally on top of the front door, blocking the view and light to the garden in back, coincidentally the best feature of the house. The awkward kitchen, the windows they chose but now despise, the fireplace that looks like a microwave oven in a huge wall, badly proportioned built-ins, and I could go on., and on, and on.
Therefore, we always tend to find the bravado with which someone with zero building experience and design experience will attack a renovation or a "from scratch" house.....amazing!!! These are the same people who wouldn't cut their own hair, or change a tire on their own auto, and are the same folks who run to a doctor for the first dribble of snot out of their kids noses. So yes, jump in and do your thing! It IS your home, and you DO have to live in it.

riconsd Behave and difficult: its like being in First Form again.

(Below is not a rhetorical question I would love to hear from other designers.)

Do all decorators/designers think so poorly of the other trades and home owners? Architects only care of the "look". Contractors build housed where the stairs terminate on the front door (I'm still trying to visualize that one with out Wiley Coyote as the builder). Home owners are stupid and desperate about...everything it seems.

Anyone who's job makes them sick should think about taking a step back, reassess why they are doing it, and try to get back the joy they first got from their work. Or step aside and let another in, who sees a client's problem as a challenge and not the source of their dis-ease.

JAN MOYER Designers like to see people get the MOST for their money, on any project, large or small. Period. Most abhor waste, and most want NOTHING more than a client who is jump up and down happy. What most never want, is for someone to be unhappy, when they could have been thrilled ... on less money, with bigger comfort, style, and function. As to architects, yes we revere their talents, and many times... they revere ours. Two heads are very often better than one, and three can be great as well. The point of "help" is to point out possibilities you may not have considered. As I said before, IT'S YOUR HOUSE.

olldbobbi Jan Moyer, I do believe you are passionate about this!

JAN MOYER Bobbi? You have that right! Just spent three hours today with new clients suffering angst and buyers remorse over a master bath and a ton of hideous carpet....yup!!....now I get to put some big band aids on with the little money left over..... and sit and wish for the money they wasted in their big hurry. Yes... you could say it makes me a bit crazy!

olldbobbi Jan, totally understandable, and curable with a nice Chablis......

lebutterfield When I go to a new doctor, I literally tell him/her that I want to hear what they say about my case to their staff when no one else is around. I want the unvarnished truth, otherwise I'm left to deal with a polite fairy tale. That's not helpful for either of us.

You sound like the "doctor" that I would choose. I appreciate tact and etiquette, certainly, and your replies indicate to me that you have plenty. But I also don't want everyone's time wasted because you feel you have to soothe my fragile ego by gently explaining physical impossibilities to me. I like that you lay it out there, warts and all, and that you are interested in spending time on a realistic solution, not lamenting over the problem. I'm a no-nonsense Southern girl who doesn't need to be cottled and I would welcome your style (haha - see what I did there? ;-)) anytime. I hope I find someone in my area who refuses to defer and deny what they know.

olldbobbi lebutterfield - well said.

Emily Hurley Hi Everyone,

It looks like we may have gotten a bit derailed here. Occasionally, when comments become more about commenters than about the content, we may remove a post or two to try to get back on track.

It is clear everyone here is very passionate about design and has a strong point of view, which is wonderful! Let's remember to be respectful of each other and our differences as well as our shared passion for design.

Thanks!

Emily Hurley
Community Manager
Houzz

olldbobbi Thank you Emily!

riconsd Now I know I'm back in First Form*: in the first week i have been told to behave, I am difficult, and hit in the head by a virtual chalk board eraser. :)

Mea culpa. I am truly sorry for helping get the passion up to cable level instead of family hour. I meant no offense and apologize to any one who was.

*6th grade

trasgorshek Bobbi P, I've just been sitting back as a bystander on this one. However, I wanted you to know I took your advice to Jan. I am sitting back, enjoying a very nice Chablis after a very crazy day that still isn't over. That was the one suggestion out of this whole article/exchange that really hit home. Thank you!!

3D-Tile-Design - Bertram Tasch Hello lebutterfield,

You have also spoken to me from the soul. I couldn't say it better. And honestly, this is was I'm missing here in Canada. Everyone is polite however I feel often "I'm left to deal with a polite fairy tale." I wished way more people were like you and had an "open ear" for honest and constructive critic. So we could solve many more problems and also faster.

olldbobbi trasgorshek - so glad I could help!

JAN MOYER lebutterfield,
Oh it is so true that Canadians are so polite, which is why it is such a lovely place to visit! Unless you are headed to a football game, or a baseball game, where you find yourself missing the passionate, crazy, fans on this side of the border!
Making a thing better is not about criticism, it is simply about making it better, but in order to do that you have to explain why and how. I often just say "look, the shortest distance between where you are, and the result you want is the truth. Would you like the short route, or the longer route?" So for instance, if I am standing in a kitchen with someone who wants tile on her backsplash, some doo dads on top of her cabinetry, and a rug under her kitchen table....and she says "The short route of course!" I then might say "well, the first problem is, you are cooking in the dark my dear. You have no lighting to speak of, and I am wondering how you have not cut off your own hand. Second, I am not sure how you open the fridge because there is barely enough room to squeeze by it. ..... and there could be more. This often leads to her looking at me and saying " I just HATE this kitchen, I always have! " We might then talk about ways to fix the REAL problems at a minimal expense, or maybe the possibility of starting over in that room. It often leads to "will you come back and talk to Jimbo and explain all this?" Turns out in many cases, that Jimbo is hating it as much as she is. Turns out, Jimbo hates some other parts of that first floor as well. Can I tell you how many times a simple truthful statement has led people to getting what they really wanted all along, led to hugely improved homes, and house value,.... and yes, even improved relationships between the couple??
When you love your space, you want friends to enjoy with you. You entertain more. It can turn a messy husband into a neat freak. And vice versa. But it can definitely take a couple from isolation to "hey, lets ask those people we met last Saturday, if they want to come over and watch the game!" All because they love their house.
I can tell you there is NO thrill on the planet, equal to a client's squeal of delight. Which is what keeps designers coming back for more.

jazzcattx Hello, Ms. Moyer!

I have visited the lovely Canada to see my home team play baseball against Toronto and the Toronto fans have quite the passion for their team. It was a fun trip.

Regarding #10 in the article, I wholeheartedly agree that a designer's input is essential for any size of remodel project. I ask for help at the framing department when I have a picture matted and framed, why in the world would I try to do an entire room or house on my own, right? I do enjoy reading your comments with their electric undercurrent. I have a question for you that may be a bit off topic. Is there a way that I could send you a quick note off of this thread so I don't disrupt?

Thanks!
lebutterfield

MF Reynolds Inc Good basic set of DO’s and DON'Ts to try to have a smooth-running construction project

wjesse It is an excellent article. As a homeowner/builder beginning a remodel, every one of these tips and explanations makes sense - up to a point. I discuss everything I think of regarding my project with my selected General Contractor, and he raises some issues/items I didn't think of, so this is a very helpful dialogue going into the project. I fully expect it to remain so throughout the work, and so does he. I know his work well enough to continue getting the superior advice he has already given me.

For the contractor, Mr. Whipple, who was bitten by the dog. I did give your story a "like," because I have been in that very situation before. However, as I am a Vietnam combat veteran, I've had no trouble at all telling the client: "Either you control the dog, or you choose between these two options: 1) I control the dog, or, 2) you get another builder. I also let them know the way I control the animal is by calling local animal control for help, and that usually means the client pays for whatever services animal control renders. If there is no local animal control, I tell the client they have only the choice of completely controlling the animal or they need another builder. After all, I am responsible for my body and being.

For Motherbear, I agree with you that we need to do our own research, so we don't agree to some outrage, or even agree to some questionable activity/service/product, especially a costly one. And I also agree with the response from the contractor; there is no substitute for the ancient arts of creating and sustaining a healthy dialogue, and fully participating in this from the moment the discussions begin. This means we clients have the responsibility to make sure we are not getting shafted, whether inadvertently or otherwise. The contractor cannot know exactly what we want any better than we describe and specify details about each item with and to him/her, making clear what our requirements are.. Meanwhile, we need the healthy dialogue, and it must include the contractor voluntarily suggesting questions/issues/items we don't think of, rather than assuming we want them to make all the choices and decisions, and rather than them thinking we will think of everything we consider needing attention. We don't think of everything, and we don't always remember to ask every question a project needs answered. Ultimately, whatever is/isn't done/discussed is the client's responsibility; after all, the client is the ultimate authority in this relationship.

grizzly I have been a life long do-it-yourselfer. However when I bought a fixer-upper I knew I would need help with the larger and heavier aspects of the remodel. I dreaded hiring a contractor to do the work after hearing many horor stories from others. I had also moved to a new area and did not have any information about local contractors.
I asked many people who they had used or knew of who were good contractors. One name came up frequently. I called the contractor and had him look at the jobs I needed done. With trepidatation I hired him to install new windows and put on a new roof. The time I spent researching local contractors has realy paid off.
The contractor and I realy work well together. He does the heavy and difficult jobs and I do the finish work. He does an excellent job and gives me excellent advise on how to go about doing the parts of the job I want to do. I save money and am getting great results. I usually let him get the materials, but for a rustic storage building I had him put up, I picked up all of the rough-cut lumber at his suggesstion.
I have had to learn to let his men do their job without me micromanaging. As my confidence in them increaced this has become easier. I still find it a good idea to be around to answer questions about how I want some details to come out.
At the end of a long hot work day they will always pick up and clean up after themseves. Frequently I will tell them to "take off" and I will clean up for them. They seem to appreciate that. I have had them back several times within the past year and a half to do additional work and could not be happier. When I had to move my mother from her temporary stay with me into senior housing, I asked the contractor for a reference to a mover. He said there is no local mover and he would have a couple of his guys move her stuff for me. Now you can't beat that!
My conclusion to hiring a contractor is to research well, then treat the workmen well. Be reasonable and flexable. I have also had to be patient in getting the contractor here. He is very busy and I can see why. Worth the wait!

housebuilduk Sir,I am not an experienced house builder.However,I have embarked on a house building project here in the UK.I have bought theproperty,now I need an architect,builder and interior designer.How should I have these people work together,I am inclined to let the designers produce their plans and let them get on with the house with the builder.I know pitfalls abound,but I just cannot walk away from my own business whilst the houses are being built.Any ideas?

cdeb Buy all products yourself, tile, kitchens, lighting bath, pavers. Leave the building materials in the contract and make sure lighting, electric / all mechanical are completely designed before you start. Here is my 113 year house complete renovation; not tear down. It can be done but you the right contractor. Brooklyn, NY complete house renovation. Footprint same as it was in 1899. Not done yet. I also recommend that you break up the project have the GC report into you and hire mechanical subs on your own. Meet with with architect and team and keep excellent accounting of the project for these things can easily spiral. This house was renovated piece by piece from new foundation to emerald coat water supposed to be the best.

frenchdecor Points mentioned in the article are good, but wrong doings could be on both sides. And yes, customers are not stupid in general. One thing I would like to know is how to protect myself from bad contractor if contract is signed, the job started, but it's not satisfactory (I don't mean insignificant details). After all I pay my hard earned money and presented standard contract doesn't have terms and conditions in my behalf, all is about protecting contractor. Is there by any chance some standard form I can get prior which includes my rights as well? I would appreciate.

ljsickle These are all great tips! I wish more people, including contractors, were aware of these and took them to heart. As a contractor, it is so much easier and more fun to work with people who plan ahead, are realistic about what is going to happen and considerate of the workers on the job. It makes those workers more anxious to go back to that job, keep it clean and neat and finish it on schedule. I think all of your various tips are great!

RMD Designs LLC Great article Kenny. I would like to add that homeowners should follow the design process. Don't start building during the preliminary phase or even during design development phase. Typically, things are still being discussed and researched during these phases.

bpbishop This article makes some excellent points. Since there will be a lot of remodeling going on in NJ and NY following the storm Sandy, it gives good advice to those of us who never thought we would be doing construction projects.

jenafreaky This is fantastic! I am a project manager for a local lumber yard and wow.... I have had customers hit all 10 points and be baffled when the project is not done on time~ This is a great article and has been bookmarked!

dmenez All of these are great suggestions. #10 is the most important and will save you time and money in the long run. Hire a professional, it's the best money you'll spend.

JAN MOYER Welllllllllllll. Here I am ten pm, bailing out clients and friends, who "had a better way" on a sizeable project. With a budget too strict for the result they wanted , what followed was a mini nervous breakdown in the middle of the project, more than a year after I had walked away from the design process and what I knew was going to be a disappointing result for them. Now.... minus needed materials, and a backtrack to fix some serious flaws in the design, and a lot of time wasted, and major inconvenience for them, and some mounting expense, I am taking no joy in being right. And no joy at all in cobbling together solutions for what could have been really great with a bit more freedom in the budget, and a smooth and painless process for them. Enough said....sort of.
On any project large or small, either adjust your thinking and wallet to match the dream, or adjust your timeline and wait until your dream can be a dollar reality.
Listen to the people ( pros) who are your allies in the process. They have nothing to gain in your unhappy results, and everything to gain when you're thrilled on the finish.
Play "designer" on a major re-model project at your own peril. The definition of major, is any project which represents very significant funds to YOU. That number will be different for different homes and owners and different times in your life. By the time you fix your mistakes you will have enough setback in schedule and budget to ..... well maybe you won't if you are very talented/ lucky, but do you feel lucky? Plan and design, budget, plan and design, revise, plan again. Then forage, gather, execute and leave a little wiggle room. That is the process. Don't shoot the messenger please,

Brenna Martinez Thanks for the good tips

iami This was very good advise to every home owner. I am redoing basement and started with a multi-purpose drawing which I provided each subcontractor(s) as talking points and to get quotes.

jontut Excellent tips! As a remodeling contractor myself, who is just wrapping up a job that, had I followed these guidelines, would have been done in 3 months instead of 7. A good reminder to get in and get it done with great plans and professional control to keep scope and costs on track.

neetugupta we are a family of four n planning to build a big house. We are confused whether to add a basement or second floor. please give suggestions.

JAN MOYER neetugupta
That's a pretty broad question that few could answer without more detail as to location, climate, ages of the folks in the family, do you want second floor bedrooms, the fact that the more roofline ( all on one floor) you have, the more expensive the build, and the larger the lot required..... what is your planned square footage, how many bedrooms and baths, when you HAVE a basement a lot of building details are easier such as water, heat, storage and other necessary considerations, and don't forget garage and etc etc.........: ) You must fill in some blanks before anyone could advise.

lmarieinteriordesign Good article, all homeowners should read this before beginning a project.

fuzzbutt45 I've had experience sub-contracting a large renovation (turning a duplex into a single family) and my partner and I did a lot of the basics because she grew up doing all of this with her father. We coordinated the subs and in spite of making the significant mistake of picking the electrician via word of mouth from a neighbor doing the same type of renovation, (turns out he had a gambling problem and sort of disappeared for awhile), we save an enormous amount of money!

Then, when we had a large renovation on a historic home we decided we needed a break and hired a general contractor. Here are a few examples of what we experienced:

1) It took over 7 months on a projected 3 month job. Why? Because we had a drought that year and they wanted to spend the dry days working on other projects that were outside. We would have days when carpenters showed up for 2-4 hours (if at all) even though there was nothing to keep them from completing this portion of the job. It was the same with sheet rock, electric, paint, etc. After about 3 months of this, I started a routine of calling the project manager at 7:30 AM every day and asking, "Hi Aldo. How many workers will be there today?" "How many hours (if any) will they be putting in today?", "Why isn't anyone there doing xyz?" He was finally truthful and told me they were working on other jobs due to no rain." Excuse me??

If I'd known they would work on only rainy days...

Incidentally, we missed a great real estate season and shortly after it was FINALLY done, the housing market slump hit. We ended up moving in for 2 years and renting rooms out to help pay the mortgage. On the flip side, this allowed us to avoid capital gain tax...

2) He wanted to charge us an extra $2000 for having the city run a larger elec. line from the street, even though I had mentioned this TWICE (on different days as we were negotiating the contract) and then point blank told him this would be needed! Apparently, his electrician didn't figure this in and later our GC wanted to charge us. We refused to pay this. I'm not an electrician and I knew it from working on the previous house.

3) The wood flooring in the kitchen was put down without leveling the old floor on this old, uneven house. I had verified this would need to be done 3 times! We called when we cam in and saw teh pitchers mound in the middle of the floor. They pulled it up and instead of leveling, putting plywood (or whatever) down, and then the flooring (as agreed), they just shimmed it and attached the planks to the shims. Does this sound "wonky" to anyone else?

4) Instead of using the steel I-beam, as designated by the engineer we paid to evaluate the foundation, they used wood. The engineer said it was sufficient but not preferable. Either way, it wasn't what we asked for.

I could list numerous others but it all came down to OUR error when picking a general contractor. Live and learn. We also found out that when you hire a GC in our state you can specify a finish date and write the contract with penalties for every day it goes beyond the agreed upon date (I heard up to $100/day but that could be wrong).

Needless to say, I'm hesitant to find a GC again but if I do I will talk to at least 4 and check all reference/work.

L

Liz Davey And don't get breast cancer during a major remodeling! Forturnately both turned out well.

BASEMENT SYSTEM NY Home remodeling is an essential part of owning a home. Thanks for sharing your thoughts and inspiration. Keep sharing :)

xl72 Thanks for the insight. I'm curious: what is the type of scaffold shown on the picture ?

sbensonphd We have built a very high end custom home and we are now gearing up for a large remodel on a different home after moving. I find some good tips in here but also much to raise my anxiety level....and to reinforce some of my negative stereotypes about some professionals. Being a professional myself, I totally understand that well trained people are often very useful and sometimes completely necessary. Having said that, many people are very good at design, aren't stupid and know plenty about both the process and what they want in the end. It's not as if choosing a color palette requires the same education as reading an MRI as one example yet both a designer and a radiologist will call themselves a professional.

I know I'm stepping into it here and will probably live to regret it due to wrathful, "educational" or condescending remarks. As others have said, there are great people and there are duds in all lines of work. I just paid a so-called designed $125/hr to create a totally unworkable kitchen complete with adding a 2nd significant dead space, not seeing why a dishwasher that literally hit me in the rear while standing at the proposed prep space was a problem and suggested a microwave in a corner such that it was unreachable by anyone other than my 6'3" husband. Honestly? With the help of a good architect (FLW's actual student) and a very knowledgeable and trustworthy GC (my dad), we had created and designed a fantastic home all on our own with much better results than this designer charged us for. As for me going forward, we will skip that particular expense. We've already shown we can manage better on our own. And no, we aren't stupid and we have NEVER ONCE called up any designers in a panic looking to be bailed out.

Christine Cox Very true about pets.Our dog knows they are everyday but still barks when they arrive... We are empty nesters . Our dog has become neurotic with noise each day. It's like having a toddler to watch over.

Country Mountain Homes Llc As a Contractor I provide my clients with the original itemized invoice of all materials I show my markup 15-20% and ask they check my math- just to be sure they see the details. If the customer wants to supply their own materials thats fine - 2 rules - you figure up how much you will need, and if your short on materials, delayed on delivery, or have a concern on warrenty concerning the materials your charged by the hour rate. I have had 3 men on job waiting on materials for 2 days, and had materials(windows) ordered that didn't fit -very costly to the customer.

Walter M. Springs Construction Thanks Kenny.. As PR pro turned design-build contractor these are things a homeowner should know ... but how to deliver them at the right time has been my challenge?

Clark Marchadesch Very insightful

Denise Roddey Great words of wisdom. I just recently started keeping a notebook on the things I'm doing to my home. Single gal doing a remodel on my own for the most part. I know what I want the look to be and I know how to do most basic things but I do call in the big guns on other things beyond my realm. I find that by keeping a book of each rooms measurements with me when I'm at the stores I make more realistic decisions instead of the "I want" decisions. Also my keeping my color choices handy I don't waste time on second guessing. My book is invaluable to me.

Dylan Martin Homes & Remodeling #'s 1,2,5,8 and 10 are very important and by taking this into consideration you can have a very successful remodel.

scott20131 I have remodelled two of my homes in the past few years and have had the pleasure of dealing with two great design/build companies without all the unbelievable drama that everyone seems to always go through. Why? Because i did my homework. I did not listen to the first contractor that came along promising me that the entire process was going to be wonderful and guaranteeing that his final price was going to be THE final price. I also don't think that i am a subject expert like many people just because i watch HDTV. It's unbelievable how many of my friends would come over and have very specific criticisms about what was being done and yet their homes look like a RENO or they are redoing work every few years because they don't want to spend the money to do it right the first time.

I don't profess that i am a subject expert but here is what i have learned through my two projects:
1. Have a budget and an idea of what you want done in advance. If you don't have a clear idea,
absolutely work with a design team. Our guys gave us ideas that we hadn't even considered and in the
end our ideas, combined with theirs gave us our current dream home. Spend more time ahead
planning and your build should go a lot quicker.
2. Do your homework and check out the designers and builders that you are going to hire.
3. GO with your gut...if it feels sleazy most likely it is. If you are only worried about your budget you have
no one else to blame when the project doesn't go the way you want it to.
4. If the contractor tells you it's going to be a specific $ amount with no increases, RUN. Both our projects
went over budget for two reasons: 1. Unexpected issues once the drywall was open. 2. We decided to
upgrade certain things after we started the project. It Happens!
5. Both times we asked for an overall price with detailed materials, labour and scope of work. If you have
time to sit there and go through every single little thing that is going into your reno, you have time to
manage it yourself.
6. If you feel like you have to micro manage your subcontractor then you have the wrong subcontractor.
Our guys had regular walk throughs with us and open communication the entire time.
7. Ask all of your questions upfront. Don't assume anything. Even better, get everything in writing.
8. Instead of treating people like "Employees" treat them like partners. My wife and i always looked at our
Contractor as a partner in this Reno. After all this is your Home! You want that Contractor to have a
passion about what he does and to treat it like it's his home.
9. Look for someone who does have passion about what they do. Our guys, both times, were excited
about our projects and were not afraid to tell us that we were heading in the wrong direction with certain
aspects of the build. You know what?...even if we weren't, the fact that they questioned us made us
revisit our decisions and confirmed that we were making the right choices.
10. Choose your finishings upfront instead of "as you go". This makes the build faster and you can
purchase items upfront without the issue of material delays.
11. Expect things to go wrong or Don't renovate!

YES there were issues, YES there were setbacks, YES we spent a bit more than expected, both times, however, the homes were beautiful and we are enjoying every inch of our latest renovated home.
At the end of the day, if you have fired 3 Contractors, 1 Designer and who knows who else, and you are doing everything yourself because you do it better, maybe you should open up your own company and let some of us enjoy your skills. I'm sure we would be sailing through our projects if we had someone like you ; )
I would absolutely recommend the design/build companies we worked with to all my family and friends...well maybe not all of them...some watch too much HDTV!!

JAN MOYER scott20131
BRAVO!!! From all of us killing ourselves to please the client, in any aspect of build or reno. Bravo!

riconsd In smaller markets you might have the luxury of only descent or better contractors showing up, but in larger metro areas the bad and worse contractors can hide for years; so going through a couple when your starting out isn't impossible.

The best way to define the relationship with a contractor is Looney Toons' Sam Sheepdog and Ralph Wolf. You both have jobs and your is to make sure you get what you want for the least possible, while theirs is to maximize profits. I disagree with calling them "partners" because they have no equity interest in the project (goodwill on the balance sheet is an overrated concept). I think collaborators would be more apt.

scott20131 Absolutely agree riconsd! I'm not saying that i am going to invite my Contractor to my Christmas family dinner however it is a give and take to a certain degree. I expect the job to be done well,on time and with professionalism like anyone else however, i also now know that in these kinds of jobs there are always issues that arise. Not only have i renovated my two homes, as stated previously, i have also spoken with a ton of friends, colleagues and family members who have gone through renovations of varying sizes and every single one of them have had something go wrong.
All i am saying is that if you expect some degree of issues to arise during your build, the project goes smoother and you can deal with things rationally instead of the huge drama that everyone seems to make. Yes there are scuzzy contractors out there but if you look, and if you do your homework, you will find the good guys as i did. Also, yes, i agree that my job is to get what i want for the least possible, however, if that is your main priority, you will absolutely find it along with the least possible results.
I always looked at the quality of the work and materials that my two contractors did prior to starting with me. I saw previous jobs and spoke with previous clients. Once satisfied i confirmed that the contractors were insured and performed their work through Permits.
My main point is that there are a lot of people on here complaining but if you dig a bit deeper you would probably find out that they were as much to blame for the outcome due to not planning enough. Not everyone, but some.