Putting a free-standing tub in a shower area (waterproofing) help!

6 years ago

I have a 67" free-standing tub I'd like to add in the same spot as my shower area... my plumber does not know how to water-proof it when draining through the liner for the tub... Please help asap.. Thanks! my email is Crazy4craigslist@aol.com

I've included the tub specifications and a picture of something similar to what I'm looking to do... Thank you for any help...

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PRO

Riddle Construction & Design

6 years ago

Your plumber is not the one who waterproofs the wet room- your tile person is. Once you figure out the layout of the wet room, meaning where the tub is going and where the shower area is, he runs his rough plumb lines as normal stubbing out the same way he would for a tile shower pan. Hopefully he has done a free standing tub before. They can be tricky since brands vary as to how they rough in. The big trick in roughing the tub in is it has to be spot on for the location since there will be no play after it is tiled. Once the rough plumbing is done, your tile person comes in and preps the space. We use Wedi products for the wet room walls and floor. Again not all tile people are familiar with this product or how to do this so I strongly suggest you seek out a pro. These spaces can be very cool, but they require fore thought and experienced tradespeople to pull it off.

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Comments (40)

Bella Abba
Original Author
6 years ago
My plumber says that in order to drain the tub, he has to cut through the liner and that he doesn't believe he can do that.... he doesn't know of any materials that will allow him to create a hole in it for the tub to drain... even having the tub drain through the shower hole seems to be an issue for him to do. He called someone from his company to help him figure it out but they weren't able to. He's trying to have me change my bathroom layout...
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Is there even space to stand under that thing? I dunno. You need to pull out the walls and replace with cementboard and tile, and then you'll need to build up the wall where the tap is so that it can hold the showerhead too, and I think you really should move the ventilation duct into the adjacent wall and close up (and tile over) the big pipe, which looks like a waste line. Then a vent fan should be added to the ceiling too, if there's no window, or you could get mold everywhere, not just in the duct. You should also have somebody look into whether your drain line is large enough for a shower (which may have to have larger drain pipe than tub). Are you sure you really need to do this? There are a lot of ways to go wrong, but doing it right won't be cheap.
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Just my opinions. 1. 36"x36" shower is adequate, but may feel small as a master bath shower for most people. The square ones I've seen are more like 42"x42", in most cases. I have no experience with wet rooms, but you definitely need to get a contractor who knows how to build it correctly. There are enough mistakes made when designing just a shower, so I can imagine there are even more challenges when you have to figure out the entire room. Even something as simple as a curbless shower usually requires framing a drop in the floor level, installing a quality waterproof membrane, careful sloping of all tile, and unique drains to make it work correctly. 3. It's much hard to step into a tub to take a shower if you have limited mobility, and you are more likely to slip and fall. You can help a lot by installing grab bars, but then you are relying on upper body strength to keep a person stable while stepping in and out. 4. Not sure about resale, but tub/shower combos are still quite common. 7. Just depends on your preferences. Its a master bath, so what are you trying to conceal? I am more concerned with keeping the room warm enough to be comfortable when stepping out of a shower. 8. Many folks do like to open a window, but my experience is that its not usually needed or effective if you have decent HVAC and an exhaust fan. Its completely counterproductive if you are in the middle of hot humid summer weather. My choice for a master bath would be a relatively large, high quality, nicely finished tile shower, with some variety in shower heads and hand-held sprays to meet different needs. I would want to have plenty of light (no tall enclosures with the "I'm in a cave" look), and the ability to make the surrounding area warm and comfortable for when you get out. Since you have a lot of space, I might try to have a design that is both curbless and without a door, so it integrates well with the rest of the room and makes the room look larger. This site has several pictures of showers that use a half wall and glass, or other designs to allow you to get rid of or minimize the door. Most also have a shower seat, multiple sprays, and other features that make them more like a luxury shower. https://www.pinterest.com/pin/45810121189907701/?lp=true Bruce
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Comments (2)
They are a truly terrible idea on multiple fronts. And the fact that you're working with someone that still uses the old fashioned and out of date liner says that you're working with the entirely wrong group of professionals. You need a proper tile professional who works well with the right plumber. This has to involve both. And a GC with a clue. How you can not be working with this high skill level of pros already is bizarre, given what you advertise you and your firm to be. You need ones who work with a membrane system like Kerdi. And add 10K to your usual job here for the upgrade in Pros and the upgrade to the waterproofing technology. Or give up this horrible idea. Even with top notch waterproofing, penetrations to it are always risky. You'd be better off suggesting putting a bath tub on a roof. It's the same thing, but would have a better view.
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Comments (15)
Do you have trained cleaning mice then? Hand them a microfiber and a tiny little squirt bottle of Windex? Then let them crawl back into the dark little cave to clean out the yuck that your human arm can’t reach? You’d need a shower drain underneath it, and waterproofed walls, just like a shower, so that the whole thing could be waterproof. Thats the same 20K tub within a shower space that’s also quite silly and technically very difficult to accomplish. But in your case, your tub is literally inside and underneath the shower, with an inadequate space to stand or clean. It’s something only someone who didn’t understand water behavior and waterproofing would even think about doing. If you want a tub shower, build a standard tub shower, and use the right products to do it. That would be an alcove tub with an integral tile flange. Then some type of waterproofing for the walls, integrated properly with the tiling flange. Then whatever wall cladding you want.
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kylen2350
6 years ago
Maybe consider a different plumber. A second opinion like a doctor.
Bella Abba thanked kylen2350
Bella Abba
Original Author
6 years ago
I'm already locked in a contract and he's already done work
PRO
River Valley Cabinet Works
6 years ago
last modified: 6 years ago
Is this a renovation? @Riddle gave a pretty thorough run-down. Maybe have your plumber talk to the tile mechanic or supply house?
Bella Abba thanked River Valley Cabinet Works
PRO
John James O'Brien | Inspired Living, by design
6 years ago
last modified: 6 years ago
Surely the wet room was planned with this tub in mind...? If so, the plumbing should already be in place and properly set for tub installation. If not, you may well bump up against a code issue in poking through a wet-seal envelop—but I should think an extender and suitable gasket/caulking should ensure that water draining from the tub go down the pipe...and should provide a seal that maintains the function of the shower. Am I missing something?

Agree with Riddell—experienced trades are critical in just about anything that is not routine!
Bella Abba thanked John James O'Brien | Inspired Living, by design
Bella Abba
Original Author
6 years ago
Hi, John everything is just being done, nothing is existing. It's a very old house but I am doing a complete renovation.... I signed a contract with the plumber after he came highly recommended. He claims he doesn't know how he can cut through the shower liner since the tub is in the shower area. He said the drain for the shower has a special fitting, but it's not the same with the tub...
PRO
River Valley Cabinet Works
6 years ago
This isn't rocket science....someone out there knows how to do it. Does the dude use the Internet?
Bella Abba thanked River Valley Cabinet Works
Bella Abba
Original Author
6 years ago
I think he's lazy, I agree, I shouldn't have to be the one figuring this out... but because it's my house, I just want to get it done and never have to see him again...
PRO
River Valley Cabinet Works
6 years ago
I had to rough in the plumbing for a slipper tub for my in-laws(not in a shower, though). The directions were not real clear. On top of that, the DMV was a nightmare to run as there was hardly enough fall and there were obstacles in the way. FIL did the finish and he struggled in spite of being an experienced mechanic.
Bella Abba thanked River Valley Cabinet Works
PRO
John James O'Brien | Inspired Living, by design
6 years ago
Thx for the additional detail, Angie. Typically, the plumbing is done prior to the tile installers preparing the space with a full water seal—we use Schluter systems which support custom arrangements such as you describe.

On a cautionary note (along the lines of observations about experienced trades) if I have learned one thing in the last couple of decades is that when it seems that a trade doesn't know how to do something, it is not wise to push them into doing it. You might want to find a plumber who can solve this for you and, if you like the one you currently have—or are just kind—you might explain your concern, say you're pulling in someone who has domes this before, and have arranged with that tradesperson for him to observe and learn (on his dime, not yours). Just a thought. Good luck!
Bella Abba thanked John James O'Brien | Inspired Living, by design
Bella Abba
Original Author
6 years ago
Thank you John, I think I'll try exactly as you've suggested by looking for someone else to do this part of the work.
PRO
Patricia Colwell Consulting
6 years ago
A contract is for the work he has to do if he can't figure it out too bad someone else will. I run into this with plumbers and electricians who cannot think outside the box. I will mention though that this system you want is going to be a pain in the a-- for cleaning every time you have a shower the tub will need to be wiped down along with squeegeeing all the walls as much as I love the concept I would stick to a glasshower enclosure and a great free standing tub.
uglyassyo
5 years ago
is there someone in the baltimore area that can do this job?
uglyassyo
5 years ago
is there someone in the baltimore area that can do this job?
acm
5 years ago
I think I'd start my own thread rather than attaching your question to the end of an elderly discussion like this.
jpexpertadvisor
4 years ago
Did you ever find a solution to this? I'm in the middle of building one.
Bella Abba
Original Author
4 years ago
Hi JP,

The problem was draining the tub without leakage through a separate means than the shower. My plumber had said that cutting through the liner would be the issue. In the end he found a way to add a drainage without the fear of leaking water, however I'm not sure how exactly it was executed.
I'll ask him to explain what he did and I'll try and relay it here.
PRO
Premier Designs
4 years ago
Your plumber was correct. There's no way to cut a hole in a shower pan liner and run plumbing lines through it and expect it not to leak. However alternate substrates for waterproofing would work to facilitate such an install.
jpexpertadvisor
4 years ago
Hi Bella, did you ever hear back from your plumber?

Thank you,

Jeremy
Darcy Williamson
3 years ago
I know this thread is almost a year old, but if you're still monitoring this, did you find a way to waterproof the tub drain? We've spent months coming up with plans with our designer and had our hearts set on a freestanding soaker tub (Not a claw foot, but something similar to the OP's photo), and then the plumber comes in and says he's doesn't know of a way to waterproof the tub drain because it would compromise the waterproof liner. How has no one come up with a code compliant way to waterproof this set-up? I see so many photos of it (ours will be very similar to the photo I've attached, except it will be glass in front of the tub instead of a tile wall, therefore no second shower head), I have to think there's a way to do this! We do have a full finished basement below our main the main floor, so waterproofing is a must.

Darcy
3 years ago
The picture didn't upload. Apologies.
uglyassyo
3 years ago
who did the work are they in Baltimore Md. 21206
Darcy
3 years ago
I'm in Michigan. So far, no one here knows how to waterproof the freestanding tub drain.
PRO
Sophie Wheeler
3 years ago
last modified: 3 years ago
A responsible designer should have talked you out of this rather than encouraging you. Its a flash in the pan really expensive horrible idea from more than just the water proofing logistics standpoint. Who wants to have to clean a tub every time they shower anyway? Yeah, someone competent can charge you a mint, but just because something can be done by an expert doesn't mean it should be done.
Darcy
3 years ago
Hmmm, right.... so all of the people that posted pictures of ALL of the completed bathrooms, (just on this site alone) with the tub/ shower done this way, are all a bunch of irresponsible idiots?? Super constructive addition to the thread, Sophie! I'm sure you're a very practical, boring, addition at any party. However, for those of us that are more on the positive and adventurous side of life, the photos prove it CAN be done! Which is what this thread was for... help to accomplish and succeed, not naysay and condescend. Not to mention, every different idea is a flash in the pan... until it's not and others start doing it. And some of us are willing to pay for new, modern, innovative, and unconventional designs instead of going with boring and predictable ones.

As far as clean up goes, I don't know what you think is happening in this concept, but even in a regular, normal bathroom, most showers actually stream INTO the tub while you're standing IN THE TUB! Do you clean the entire tub/shower area EVERY TIME someone uses it? If so, maybe you should rethink your need for cleanliness. Besides, this layout has them in the same enclosure... but still separate. The shower can be used without getting the tub wet, (unless you're a splashing, careless monkey or something)!
crystalyn_aucoin
3 years ago
I am also having this dilemma! Everything is roughed-in and now I'm told it;s a problem. My plumber suggested a copper pan that they can weld a sleeve onto that we could tile around but I can only imagine this will cost a fortune. There is another idea he had but I didn't quite understand it. Digging in deeper now. Hoping to find a good way to do this... Please respond if anyone has a good idea!! Thanks
PRO
Premier Designs
3 years ago
There are ways to ensure an install like that will never leak.

Obviously without getting eyes on it I can only say this, a combination of waterproofing fabric, and or liquid waterproofing will work, and work well, every install is different, and requires an open mind and a competent tile man, but it can be done without worries of leaks.
wannabath
3 years ago
last modified: 3 years ago
Just because you see pictures of it being done doesn't mean it should be done.

Could you imagine the amount of mold and scum under that tub? Residential products for showers are not meant for constant submersion. Pool and aquarium products are. Laticrete has waterproofing that would solve that but how do you seal the tub to the tile floor so no water gets underneath it? How do you deal with the water that gets underneath it?

The only way I would even consider this would be maybe on a raised deck and a serious consideration given to pan sloping.
Darcy Williamson
3 years ago
We considered a raised deck, actually. And that may have solved any leak issues, but what we didn't realize also was that the tub we had picked out was a 2 piece type where the base was set and then the top was set onto it. In a humid, wet environment like an enclosed glass shower, there was no way to waterproof the 2 pieces of the tub itself, let alone the floor beneath the tub drain, with or without a raised platform. We opted out of that design. I hope to post pictures of what we are currently doing instead as soon as it's done. So far, I'm as happy with our new design as I was with the original that I asked about. Can't wait to see it completed. Thanks for all the comments and suggestions.
PRO
Premier Designs
3 years ago
wannabath ... That's what silicone caulk is for.. it would be necessary for the tub to be offset, on a flat area, not on the sloped shower pan. In the picture above, the tub is quite a distance from the shower heads.
crystalyn_aucoin
3 years ago
I decided on this configuration since we couldn't figure out waterproofing. Forgive the little red tabs and tape on the shower glass we are still working in there. I'm very happy with this layout
Buffalo Bernie
2 years ago
Darcy
Or anyone what was the final solution? We have a 11 x 6ft room where we want the shower and freestanding tub to share. plumber/waterproofer is throwing man on the moon at us and essentially saying there is no way to waterproof the bath drain? thanks in advance.
D P
2 years ago
I’ve done a couple of these installations. My plumber and I have decided a sleeve (ABS Pipe) works best for install on plywood subfloor applications. We used Schluter products, Red Guard, ABS pipe, and some ingenuity. Here is the process. Also I’m assuming your tub filler has a base cap/cover.

Find ABS pipe 1/2” diameter bigger than the tub filler base brackets (3/4” smaller than base cap diameter). This allows you to have access to it later on and really crank it into place. Once you have the correct diameter, cut pipe a minimum of one inch above finished floor planned height. Don’t forget the minimum slope of 1/4” slope per foot.

Install the tub filler on subfloor in desired location. Once you feel you have a solid mount, place ABS sleeve at the base and mark on subfloor. You can either leave the base mount or remove it at this point. I like to uninstall it so the stem of the filler isn’t in my way.

Do all prep work for a dry pack shower pan. There are other shower pan options, but I believe dry pack works best for this application.

Put sleeve(s) in place. A friend suggested red guarding at this step. Up to you.

Build dry pack pan and let it cure. Depending on size of pan, I like to give minimum of 24 hour resting time.

Now with ABS sleeves secured in place, Red Guard the protruding pipe and a 2-3” diameter on floor. Make sure to read instructions for coverage. The Red Guard will create a watertight seal between the pipe and floor.

Now install Schluter membrane. If you haven’t installed Schluter products they have incredible instructional videos. I believe there’s other similar products as well.

I personally believe in going a little safer than sorry. So at this point I do another application of Red Guard around the protruding pipe and membrane. If you want to eliminate one of the Red Guard steps, I’d recommend the first application.

Install tile. Mount tub filler. Place base cap in place. Once again you can go a little further here, but the 1”+ of protruding ABS should be fine for keeping water out. You can caulk the base cap in place or even make a thick ring inside creating a damn. Up to you on this one again.

Hopefully this makes sense. Tag me with any questions.
PRO
The Cook's Kitchen
2 years ago
last modified: 2 years ago
Sorry, but a Frankenhack of different waterproofing methods is the way to NOT do that. It’s just not. If your contractor doesn’t know enough to stick with one waterproofing system, then the customer pays the price for a ZERO WARRANTY build that has quite high risks of leaking. Redguard especially is a poor idea mixed with anything.

Contact a local Schluter or Mapei or USG rep to create a plan that will have a warranty. One company. One system. If their technical department can’t provide the guaranteed guidance for your design, then the design wasn’t appropriate to be chosen. It should be altered until it can be legitimately single system waterproofed.

A properly designed wet area can have a LIFETIME WARRANTY, if planned and executed correctly. It’s still not a good idea from either a design or execution standpoint. But it doesn’t have to be hacked, risky, and unwarrantable.
D P
2 years ago
I completely understand that my WARRANTY with Schluter and redguard would be VOID. However, I really don’t care about that and I’m willing to take the risk. I believe in both products fully. I am also aware that there isn’t any information from either company saying they bond together. Why would they ever need to test their products together???Are they trying to become unified companies and share profits??? Hell, if I was contracted to do this for anyone, I’d have them sign a waiver acknowledging the WARRANTY would be void. With that being said, I’m incredibly confident (after numerous lengthy tests) this process will stand the test of time. Being creative doesn’t mean sacrificing quality of work. Some people just aren’t into “cookie cutter” homes. If you have installed your pan with the proper slope, this application works perfectly. This process creates a watertight bond with the ABS sleeve and allows you to install both drain and free standing fillers with a watertight seal around the protruding lip of the ABS. If you don’t like it, don’t use it. This is simply the best option we have found to stop any leaks at these junctions. Good luck everyone!
PRO
Norwood Architects
last year
I know this is an old post but YES!! Love the idea!
bmoffett09
8 months ago
Hey guys -- just wondering if anyone ever came up with a solution to making this layout work with a freestanding bathtub? Please let me know! Thank you!
HU-103280270
3 months ago
For anyone still looking :)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iIsSRhMPjl8
PRO
Sean Carlin Designs
13 days ago
Why not just use a second shower drain flange and connect the tub drain to that?

Putting a free-standing tub in a shower area (waterproofing) help!

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