I'm no expert either.. as a matter of fact I'm a novice as well and have no formal training in these matters (just so you know that this is an idea only) but what I'd do in that case would be to look for plants that do well in those conditions... now without photos of the area it's difficult to give you any precise ideas but that's a start. Something with a hardy and deep root system would help hold any type of soil from washing down the hill... but just remember what you said about the treatments you have put on your lawn. That will impact any plants you put in that area.

I would suggest you wait until a dry spell to work the dirt though as working with it wet is not only difficult but can be bad for the soil (so I've been told anyways).

Good luck with whatever you plan on doing!!

BTW... adding photos would be a great addition to this thread and might get you more responses.

ttfn
Mystic.

Maybe the french drain that was installed is grossly undersized to handle the flow, or was not properly installed. I would suggest digging up a portion of the french drain to see what you actually have, and then get someone who actually knows drainage in your area to advise you. I would say as a minimum the french drain should have a 12 inch wide by 2 foot deep trench backfilled with drainrock, and at least a 4 inch diameter perforated pipe. The trench itself should also have been wrapped with filter fabric to completely enclose the drain rock and prevent it from silting up over time. The drain pipe itself also needs to have a minimum slope of 2% to drain, and if it doesn't have enough slope, the water will just sit there. Covering the drain pipe with a sock or sleeve of filter fabric is also good insurance against it clogging over time.

I doubt you are breeding mosquitoes in your wet spot unless there is standing water for more than 4 to 5 days after the rains, it is more likely that they are breeding elsewhere nearby with more long lasting standing water, or creeks/ponds nearby. The wetness does tend to attract them to the garden, however, even if they aren't actually breeding there.

As to recommendations for plants that like wet feet for your area, you will get better locally suitable advice from your local agricultural extension office, a local master gardener associate, or a good local nursery/landscape designer/landscape architect that knows their Alabama suitable plants,(I do assume that you are now in Alabama, as it is highly unlikely you'd have any summer rain or standing water here in California!)

Plants that would like the wet feet here in California could include things like Carex or Juncus species, pond marginals, Calla's, Crinum's, etc. Few things besides trees that like wet feet would be large and thirsty enough to actually soak up the excess water,(you might try Nyssa sylvatica or Cornus stolonifera) but creating a dry creek bed with river rock that drains at the surface, and planting water loving plants along side it could make a feature of your problem area, without the expense of adding a retaining wall and backfilling with soil. If you did go this direction, the back side of the retaining wall would still need a french drain that actually functions to get the excess water out, and avoid toppling the wall over time due to the unrelieved water pressure.

In my experience with previously installed french drains, way too many get installed improperly due to cutting corners in the details, and simply don't work due to clogging up, not being large enough to handle the volume of water, or being set too close to the surface to properly intercept the majority of the flow... You won't know what your problem really is until you expose a section of the french drain to see how it was installed.

Thanks Mystic and Bahia for your replies. I have spent the last hour trying to figure out how to insert a picture--can someone help? The GardenWeb instructions don't help at all. (Has anyone noticed that the instructions for how to add images don't actually tell you HOW to insert an image?)

Bahia, I think you're probably right about the french drains not being installed properly. And yes, we're in Alabama, just north of Birmingham. I seem to flummox everyone--even a local Master Gardener--when I ask for plants that like wet feet. Wax myrtle and river birch seem to be all they can think of. No room for river birches (I think) and the row of wax myrtles I had at the bottom of the slope, a local landscape guy we hired last year took them all and put them up higher on the slope. I kind of regret now that we let him do that. Two different philosphies: he wants to show off the hill and I wanted to hide it. So he wanted the wax myrtles as a backdrop and then smaller plants in front. But he didn't seem to have any idea either as to what smaller plants to put along the wettest part at the bottom--so he just put pine straw.

What's doing GREAT there right now is whatever grass weed it is that spreads out very wide and seems to have an extensive root system. Dallas grass? Not sure. If I could find something that grows like that but is attractive, I'd be in business! :-)

I'll write more later and with more detail once I can figure out how to add pics.

Thanks again!

Clueless

Clueless, search these forums for "rain garden", also google the term. It's a kind of garden for a soggy spot.

Some plants that don't mind/like wet feet that come to mind are winterberry shrubs, and irises. Also, once you put some shrubs and other plants in place, a good layer of natural cedar mulch will help absorb and hold some of the moisture.

Here's a FAQ page from another forum that I found useful for pics:

FAQ page on posting pics

I also saw a good posting recently which I couldn't find, but I did find this one from this very forum:

Best way to post multiple pictures - Tony?

Barefootinct, THANK YOU for bringing up rain gardens!!
Clueless, PLEASE consider this solution-it might be scary if youve never gardened, but it is the only real, long term solution. Think about where those lawn treatments go when they "just wash away." I know lots of resources for rain gardens, but they all focus on the Midwest. Just out of curiosity, I googled "rain garden Alabama" and look what was on top--it has loads of resources, even help locating local nurseries:

Argh: still having trouble with pictures. Following the directions from the FAQ you provided, DBS, there was no "Browse" button. So now I'm trying Flicker. Let's see if this works to add a picture of what the back originally looked like.

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Oh! It worked! So now I'll show you other pictures of what it looks like now. In these next two pictures, you can see the lines in the lawn where the useless french drains are.

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The plants that are all nicely close to the fence belong to our next-door neighbors. They don't have such a climb to plant on that hill. My husband and I can't do it easily: we're always slipping and falling and it's no fun. We both have health problems that make it unwise for us to keep trying.

I have to say, these pictures all look better than it actually is in person. Most of the pine straw has thinned out/turned grey and lots of weeds are popping up. Most everything we try to put at the top of the hill is dying.

What I haven't explained is that we don't even own about 80% of this slope: it belongs to the two houses above us, but the owners won't do a thing. I'm trying to get our HOA to get them to at least plant a groundcover like junipers at the top of the hill since it's eroding, esp on the fence owner's side.

You also can't tell by these pictures how wet it is under the pinestraw most of the time. We've just gone maybe 10-14 days w/out rain, so things have dried out a bit now. Usually the lawn around the maple and the bottom 6 feet of that hill are squishy/muddy. I will definitely consider the rain garden idea, even though I just put in all that edging. Maybe if I bring it out to include the tree, I can put a rain garden in--although we won't have much lawn then. (Doesn't matter to me, but I think of resale value.)

Thanks again for your advice!

Clueless

Wow that is a steep hill. Ask your neighbors if they will allow you to plant on their propery. Toss some groudcover on the hill and let it grow up to the top. It seems like your neighbors won't mind, as they have abandoned all of that slope.

I'm not a hydrogeologist, but I work with them...so this is not a professional opinion.
From your description it seems that your property grading is such that it intersects the groundwater table, an you have a seep along the base of the hill. Rainfall temprorily raises the water table forcing more water out through the seep. Also from your description that after a rain, the ground is boggy near the maple tree and up the hill-side.
This would suggest that the lawn is being impact by seepage from the hillside running across the surface, and onto the lawn.
It would appear your french drain runs parallel to the hillside at just about the same distance as the maple. I don't know what the radius of influence of a french drain is in your soil, but perhaps the french drain is working. It may have just been poorly sited, and it may need to go closer to the seep.

Any wall built, if built only to keep the lawn dry doesnt' seem to be worthwhile. Drainage from behind the wall would have to contend with the groundwater head. If the wall was built too short (didn't intercept the entire seep), water may just flow over the top.

A wall or plants will not affect your yard's drainage, only have to stand up to it. You're not breeding mosquitos in wet spots unless there is standing water there for days, (association does not mean causation, mosquitos are probably coming from other wet areas near your home). The landscaping of that hill is accentuating water draining into your yard. I'd plant a rain garden, it will look good and solve your wetness problems. Google "raingarden" you will find TONS and tons of good info. They are easy to build, I built one last year, it is doing well.

Thanks for your replies, everyone. Isabella, I didn't understand half of what you wrote, but do you think a rain garden is the way to go, as others have suggested?

As for groundcover, we put some pacific blue junipers all along the top, but most of them have died, never having done much. Can you give me any suggestions for a groundcover that would go up the hill? We figured we'd have to start something at the very top and have it grow down--but it's just too hard for us to get up there, and we can't get water to it.

Lpinkmountain, I'm wondering why you say the landscaping is accentuating the draining. We only put those plants up last fall and I don't see how they've increased any drainage--it's exactly the same as it's been.

I guess I'll go check out rain garden websites!

Clueless

Is a raingarden the way to go?

It depends where you locate the rain-garden, and what you mean by a rain-garden. A rain-garden is a man-made intermittant wetland disguising an infiltration basin.

Your lawn is serving in that function now (re-charging water), but it doesn't have the form (plantings, construction etc.) of a textbook rain-garden.

If you want the lawn to be high and dry, then you need to move the water away from that area with a french drain to an outlet, which could be a rain garden.

French drains move water horizontally and rain-gardens move water vertically (infiltrate water)... it all depends on your objectives.

Don't overlook the fact that you have a section of your landscape that is being watered for free. Grow some astillbe or other plant that likes moist soil.

For the uphill plantings, I would place a ladder on the ground to aid in safely planting the slope. I'm not famililar with groundcovers in your region, but I'm partial to vinca minor.

Hope this helps

I'm not a designer, nor a landscape architect...but I'd be hiring one or the other as soon as I had the money put together for the fee. In the long run it will cost you less.

I know you are first-time HOUSE owners...and probably on a tight budget...but that hill is begging to be terraced. Or at least have some major rocks implanted. (And I mean major-need-a-bobcat rocks.) They will help slow the flow of the water, giving it more time to sink in. I'm in the process of doing something similar on a much smaller scale in my yard. I'll try to post some pics tomorrow if I get a chance.

I think the big reason you are slip-sliding on your hill is the pine straw. It's wicked slippery stuff. And on a slope it's deadly. Try clearing a path down to the bare dirt and see if that helps. I don't know of ANY ground cover that will run uphill...and I don't think that's going to be the best solution for your problem.

Seriously, the money you spend on a (properly selected) pro is going to be the best landscaping money you spend on this house. Given the hardscaping you may need, you are going to want to talk to someone who does a great deal of hardscaping/drainage work. The plants will be secondary once the hardscape is in place. I know where-of I speak...my "new kitchen money" got invested in a serious retaining wall/pavers/drainage project four years ago. Best money we've spent.

melanie

By landscaping I did not mean the plants planted along the hill, I meant the lay of the land. You've basically got a situation that channels the water to the low spot in your yard. Now I know all about french drains, but there are a lot of ways to screw them up, or have them perform in less than stellar ways. You're basically going against nature, the opposite of "go with the flow." My good friend has a house about halfway down a hilly slope. It's basically three levels--wooded section, grassy yard, house, creek down at the bottom running along the front road. The previous owners had done some terracing and supposedly installed a whole underground drainage system to route the water around the house. It doesn't work, when it rains his house floods slightly and gets very damp, and nothing is coming out of the drainage pipes. And we're talking thousands of dollars invested. And yes the contractors hired by the previous owner screwed it up, but that's why my friend got the house for so cheap, it was a drainage nightmare and the owner wanted it off his hands. It's hard to fight the basic principle that water flows downhill. Also, water flows downhill both above and under the ground. The natural inclination of the water on that hill is to flow down to the stream, and his house is smack in the middle of that process. He doesn't have thousands of dollars to have the drainage system looked at. And who knows if they would even do it right the second time. This can become a money pit. So he's painting his walls with mildew resistent paint and getting a dehumidifier and a shop vac with water suction capabilities. It's his summer cottage, he got a really good deal on it. He knows what he's willing to invest. He only goes up there on weekends, not living there full time like the previous owner. The house is over 150 years old, so it has damply stood there and can continue to do so.

The reason I bring this up is because if your house isn't flooding and your only problem is one little wet spot in the yard, then I say look at it as a blessing and plant things that like wet soil. Isabella has spelled it out for you very well. The water has to go somewhere. If you move it horizontally, it eventually pops out somewhere. The idea behind a rain garden is the water goes vertically into the ground, is absorbed, as you mentioned in the first part of your post. The idea behind terracing is you give the water little resting steps along its path to slow it down and some of it will soak in. You might want to look at that as a long term option for the back hill, if you aren't satisfied with the way it is now. But that would be quite an expensive undertaking unless you did a lot of the work yourself.

I say if it aint broke don't fix it. Wet spot in the yard--solution raingarden. No digging trenches, installing pipes, building walls, etc. so lots less expense and skill required.

lpinkmountain is right...if the wet spot is your only problem. I was under the impression that you were concerned about erosion and your inability to keep plants alive on your hill.

I will say that properly engineered walls/rock baffles/drainage can help solve water problems...but one needs to hire someone who knows what they are doing. I've seen some designers who could handle it (Mich comes to mind). I've seen some general contractors who could handle it (the guy who did our retaining wall and drainage work). But, in all honesty, a landscape architect would be my pro of choice...if I didn't KNOW someone who could handle the drainage issue.

I went with a general because I'd seen his work in several places, at houses I knew had problems similar to the problem at my house, and he fixed things. Four years on and several inches-within-an-hour rains, and I think I made the right choice. Had I NOT known his work, however, I'd have hired a Landscape Architect.

Mjsee is right, if you're going to try to alleviate the problem structurally, then you're talking a considerable investment and I would shop around, talk to people, see examples of previous work, etc. It is hard to find a good landscaper, something we have discussed quite a bit on this forum. And the good folks are expensive.

There are smaller scale solutions, you can find some plants that will take over that hill, I do suggest calling the local Cooperative Extension office for suggestions. This may take a while to find the right combinations.

You really have to decide how serious do you think the problems is, and how much time and money and effort do you want to invest in solving it. This will depend on your taste, your ability or desire to do the work on your own and research up on it, or your ability to find a good landscape architect to work with. You can find people who are general contractors, landscapers or landscape architects who can do the job well, and people in all three categories who will not do a good job. If you want to go that route, caveat emptor!! Finding a good person is absolutely critical, so take your time.

Wow, and I thought MY back hill was big!

I agree with the lpinkmountain, thinking of terracing that hill might be just the ticket.

This is going to seem like a way off the wall suggestion but I've been reading about rainwater harvesting, mainly as a way to capture and use what is running out of my yard instead of using the potable water from the spigot.

There is a guy in Arizona, obviously a place more in need of rainwater harvesting than we are in Alabama .(I'm in Tuscaloosa) but his story and what he has done with his yard and home is incredible. He has two books and one of them concerns building 'earthworks'..i.e. berms, terracess, etc to capture the rainwater.

Do take a look at the pix and diagrams he (Brad Lancaster) has about his house. What he is growing in his yard, all due to rainwater harvesting, is incredible.

After the last two years of drought that we've had, I'm considering lots of options for my yard.

P.S. Welcome to Alabama!

It looks to me (from your pictures) that you prefer a tidy/neat landscape. Also, it's unclear about how much gardening you like to do.

If you go with the rain garden (I have one), then I think you'd need to really like to garden. There are many perennials that like wet feet, but all will need some maintenance a few times per year. To me, a rain garden is pretty, but I'm sure it looks like a mess to others! LOL

The idea behind a rain garden (to me) is to capture rain water so that it slowly seeps into the ground (vertically) to help solve problems as well as support an eco-system. The plants help filter the water that may runoff into drain systems or natural waters such as creeks and streams.

Once the ground is satuated, the excess needs to go somewhere else very slowly (thereby preventing erosion). The water that our rain garden can't absorb goes into our dry streambed and eventually goes into a natural creek. Therefore, we use only organic products in our garden/meadow. You don't want to pollute the drain systems either as those may eventually go into a creek/lake/stream.

If you don't want to be a gardener; or, if you want a really neat and tidy lawn, then you really want to hire professional landscaper who understands land contours, drainage systems, etc.

As for planting the hillside, is it full sun? If so, there are numerous herb-type plants that can be planted there to help with erosion that won't require much maintenance and are drought tolerant (once established).

As for a brick wall...nature (especially water) can break down a wall if there isn't a proper drainage system installed above the wall as well. Otherwise, the brick can eventually be pushed out, mortar cracks, and you've got another problem. You need a good landscaper to install a wall.

Lastly, there may be city/HOA ordinances about runoff and/or even capturing rainwater in your area. A professional should be able to ascertain what's allowed under any ordinances or covenants. You may have to submit landscape plans to either one of those permitting groups.

Rest assured, your problems can be solved. With a good design, the solution will also look fantastic. My best advice is to seek out a professional with a lot of references solving THIS kind of problem. Go see the work, talk to the other customers. There are many ways to do this fairly inexpensively, or you can go very expensive with elaborate hardscape. Be clear about your budget upfront. Get multiple quotes.

As for mosquitoes...I highly recommend planting lavender in high/dry/sunny/well-drained areas.

Cameron

Hi everyone,

Sorry I haven't replied to all these good suggestions: since I'm new to this forum, I'm also new to thinking about checking it. ;-)

Instead of trying to answer each question, I'll just answer the ones I remember reading and which seem relevant.

Who asked me if I like gardening? Well...let me put it this way, I'd enjoy it if it weren't so darn hot and humid--and that I seem to be considered a rare delicacy to the local mosquitos! (And I have lupus, too.) So I get out and do stuff in the cool spring and fall--but then I just want to leave everything alone in the summer except for watering and mowing.

I like things nice and neat in the front of the house (in keeping with our neighborhood) but I wouldn't mind some wildness in the back. If it looks nice and neat it's because I had to put that edging in to keep the rocks and pinestraw in. There are rocks constantly rolling down the hill.

And those who said not to worry about the wet spot--yeah, that's the way I'm starting to think about it. I used to have my birdfeeders there and had to tramp through the squishiness all the time, but now that I've moved the feeders, it's not a daily visit to the marsh. I was just afraid that that's where the mosquitos were coming from.

And for the suggestions of hardscaping and terracing: maybe you missed the part that we don't even own most of this hill--that would just irk no end to spend that kind of money improving our neighbors' properties (there are two sets of owners--the two houses above us). (And there's no room on either side of our house to get heavy equipment in.)

Since I first started this thread, I did argue with the HOA--and lost. They decided the owners didn't need to do anything with their property--even if it is eroding. So what I wish now is that I had stuck to my original plan of planting perhaps two rows of wax myrtles and attempting to simply hide most of the hill. Last fall we hired a local guy (not a landscaper, just works for a nursery) who thought it would be great to move all the wax myrtles I had planted myself into the design you see, adding azaleas (we already had in other spots) and some holly trees, etc. His goal was to make a feature out of the hill. But that now seems to me to be a never-ending money pit because we'd need so many more plants to cover the area. (My husband was diagnosed with cancer just when the guy started the work too--I should have stopped it to save the $$$ for what would come. But he's all right now--after 2 surgeries.)

So as I write, I have the phone book open in front of me, trying to find an ad for a landscaper that looks nice but not TOO nice, if you know what I mean. ;-) I want a professional to give me an idea of how best I can cover this hill for the least amount of money. If we can get the top covered/hidden with groundcover and/or wax myrtles, then later we can think about making a garden out of the lower, wet area.

You know what my greatest goal is? I just want to stop thinking about this! I don't want to keep waking up every morning, looking out back and being irked that the owners of the property won't help. I want to go back to worrying about world peace instead of what my backyard looks like.

Clueless

Okay, me the worry-wart is checking in.

Lots of good ideas about what might be wrong and what works in some situations, but I still come away with, how do we really know what's going on here?

I guess I'd like to see you get a more comprehensive on-site analysis of what's really going on, then fit in with your goals for your yard, with a range of options for managing it, including gradual implementation, or now-things and later-things, that you could do if budget and lifestyle allow. I wish I knew what that would cost in your area; if you are planning to stay in that home awhile, what might it be worth to you? Is the squishy yard a non-issue now? Is it limited to just a small area and not one you'll have to squish through to take care of the hill?

If your only focus is to make the hill nicer to look at, then maybe you can go about it just by having stuff planted that will grow okay on the hill. I've no doubt you can find a "landscaper" who will install in a bunch of shrubs and groundcovers for you. But, do try to find someone you can really talk with about your wishes & your abilities to water,weed, mulch, and maintain the plantings for the first few years (or maybe link up with a service that will do that for you).

If I could be convinced that the hill issues and the drainage issues are not intertwined, i.e., that planting the hill is its own deal and if done reasonably well (choice of plantings, adequate maintenance) will not be rendered obsolete by later choices, then I'd say go ahead and fix if if it bothers you.

While one doesn't have to always think about what the next buyer will think, it is a good idea to consider whether you have an opportunity to make an investment that you will really enjoy for a number of years AND it will correct a problem for re-sale (as if you're trying to sell your home in the rainy season). But of course that requires some number-crunching.

Bet no one can help me with my problem! (tear)
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Mopmmameyer, who owns the slope? This is a major situation which requires a civil engineer and lots of money. Did a builder disturb this hill which resulted in wiping out the natural vegetation? This may be the toughest question we have ever had posted on this Forum. Someone is responsible. I hope it isn't yours to correct.

Which problem do you want to discuss, the visual of the bare slope, the drainage swale silting in, potential for the retaining wall being to be overcome, or who performs the maintenance on the overall draingage system for the neighborhood?

From the photos I gather you live in a semi-arid region prone to storms, and in a older neighborhood. The third photo from the bottom would be enough for me to take Nandina's advice about a CE. Is that the original swale?

mommameyer, are you still reading this thread? I hope so. Sometimes members here start taking big money and engineers and then posters exit. I've probably run off more than my share. Even if you don't have a lot of money I hope you will stick around awhile.

When I look at your photos I get a very uncomfortable feeling about the stability of that slope. Photos can be very misleading as they warp the perception of distance. And in your case I hope that's true. But the danger posed by a sudden slope failure, if it exists, is such that you should be aware of the danger even if you cannot afford to fix it.

Elements of the slope that make me uneasy are its length, steepness, the geology and material of the slope, the wall at the bottom, and the proximity to the house.

At it's worst, a failure could crush your house to rubble as if it were a house of cards. And it could happen in mere seconds without warning.

It will be impossible for me to give you any definitive opinion on the slope, but you can be guided to gather data and photos that will help in assessing any danger involved.

http://www.kfoxtv.com/news/17965184/detail.html

as you can see I really need a lot of help just have no idea where to get it. I have gone to the City, the County, I have asked the Water District to come help or look at least. The local Extension....no one wants to help they just clear their name and move on. I don't know what else to do. The pics I am gonna take today are gonna scare you even more. The rock wall is about soaked toooo far to beyond any resolve. IT will soon crumble I am guessing. THe slope is non stopped soaked and has no run so far East that it is at the four house down. I really dont know what to do. Thank you for all your imput. As everyone else I dont have the big bucks to just shell out for this kind of problem. This is my property and everyone I have contacted including the builder says basically its my property its my problem. I had no idea when buying this house in 2005 that it would be like this....sigh.

I have been hoping you would return. The first place to start today...Check the yellow pages, select a civil engineer and make that phone call! This is the only person qualified to give you any advice.

Second, please come back and let us know what action took place that disturbed this slope and who did it? You may have a law suit. I don't think you are alone in this matter. If you can name the culprit then you and your attorney, based on a consultation with a civil engineer, should have a discussion as to what your options may be.

I would agree with nandina that there are some civil engineers that will be the most qualified to deal with your problem.

But before you make that call, I suggest you know two things; which is the best engineer for your situation and what you hope that engineer will do for you.

There are good engineers and also those that are incompetent. There are good engineers that won't have expertise in the area you need. There are good engineers that will have a conflict of interest, some of which will rightfully refuse you as a client and those that will take your money anyway.

There are three things you might hire an engineer to do:

1. Complete a set of plans that will fix your problem.

2. Do an analysis and advise you of the situation such that you can make the best decision as to what course of action to follow.

3. Provide expertise and expert testimony for a legal team in an action to recover damages from someone.

The best engineer to do one of the above is unlikely to be the best for the other items. Choose wisely, an engineers time does not come cheap, even if s/he is not being effective.

Considering item #1, a project to fix your problem. You have not been very specific as to what your problem is, an unstable slope or flooding. Often serious problems of this nature require large sums to fix. I have to ask, if the fix is greater than you can afford, will a set of plans that you can't complete be of any use to you, or just wasted money?

Let's look at what might happen if you call a qualified engineer.

1. He comes out to your property, looks around, racks up a few billable hours, and sets an appointment at his office. Later at his office your are presented with a contract for services estimated at $5,000.00 on a project likely to cost $30,000.00 If you can't go forward you will be asked to pay the account to date.

2. When you call, the engineer is aware of the problems of that area. A lot of his practice may be with land developers of the area and taking a minor client that might put him in a position of criticizing past or future clients will not be in his interest. Especially if the situation may lead to litigation. Or maybe he knows that there will not be any economically justifiable fix for the problem. So he refuses you as a client or starts then makes his fee unaffordable (see #1 above).

3. You call a qualified engineer that does not have a conflict of interest and doesn't waste his clients money. This guy is not going to come out to your property. It's likely he will grant you a short interview to present your problem. He will invite you to bring photos, lot survey plat, and any other documents that might have information about the situation to be combined with any in-house data he may already have, such as topo maps. After hearing you, he will explain what services he can provide and what the likely cost will be. If you don't hire him or he refuses the work, you wont get much of a bill if any. If you choose to go forward he will send technicians to the site to gather the data he will need. Only when he has real data to work from will he start billing you for his expensive time. You should seek to bring the very best and most complete information to the interview that you can provide.

Until I have time to write more, here is some homework to do:

Go to the County Clerk, El Paso County and ask to see the subdivision plat (Volume 77, Page 86, Plat Records). Take your camera with you and take photos of the plat and close ups of the plat title block, the engineers stamp and name, your lot, any plat notes, and anything that is an approval by the City or County government.

For those interested, a couple of graphics from microsoft ...

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Thanks for your further efforts tracking down this situation, pls8xx. Retaining a civil engineer to deal with an individual property in this mess is a waste of time and money. Now we know why none of the municipalities will comment on the situation. Each party plus the builder shares guilt. I would guess that homeowners involved are retaining one attorney to represent the group. Those homes on top of the slope will probably be condemned and torn down. Others may follow as the slump lengthens out. Legal advice is what is needed now in this situation.

I am a civil engineer. I fix problems like that all the time. I'd probably skip the local unit of government,organize all the homeowners above and below that slope and set up a meeting with the state representative and the state senator.

But I do have a question, when you bought the house, what did that slope look like? Worse, better, about the same.

You are right both the local unit of government(LUG) and the developer could be liable to fix this situation. I would start by telling the LUG that this slope violates their EPA Phase 2 Non-point source pollution permit. This slope needs to be stabilized and they should work with the property owners to get it done. (Each property owner probably will need to grant an easement for work to be done on that slope...)

I would hesitate to contact the EPA directly because in their eyes the property owners could be liable. Though it might be worth your effort to check the status of the EPA NPDES permit for construction activity for this development. (Who holds this permit and is it still active, if the permit has been closed, who signed the form that certified the site was 100% vegetated and stable?)

It also looks like the subdivision is still being constructed, the LUG can stop all work on future phases of the development until this slope gets fixed. Nothing gets a developer's attention faster than a stop work order.

And worst case scenario, if you don't want to involve the government or the developer is out of business, you can organize all property owners affected above and below the slope. It looks like 15 properties. This organization could agree to fix the slope and split the costs 15 ways. If you show up organized, the politicians and LUG may be more willing to help.

I'm not real familiar with your soil and your plants, but to me it looks like the slope could be fixed with a combination of gabion baskets, geotechnical grid, geotechnical fabric and a proper planting and maintenance plan.

If your in Texas, the TCEQ would be in charge of the storm water control program. Clearly a lot of sediment is being carried away, but is there another SW contol feature that we can't see in the aerial?

I'm still curious if the appearance of this slope is typical of the ones in the region or not, which is why the builder is not concerned? Maybe they don't know about the swale issue.

I can tell you that matters are not getting any better. I feel dumbfounded. What kind of lawyer should I call. I am going to try my darndest to take each and every posters advice. Starting with getting written documentation that the BUILDER should never have build these homes here.

I have several things to catch you all up on but for now I will post current and up to date pics...There is really no one willing to help us...they all have made it apparent that it is our property our problem

I am crossing my fingers and have inlisted the help of the geology dept at UTEP local university....

until I have more time for updates look at these pics. When we bought the house in 2005 the development had just been there or year or so...not a lot of time. The hill did not look bad at all!!! They said plant some stuff you'll be fine...I was fresh out of college it was my first house, first kid, first marriage....who knew this would happen!!!! Grrrr.....

Thank you all for your time.

OH and I have salt cedar to deal with now!!! We live in EL PASO texas COME'ON!!!!!
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