Shiro is yellow, not green.

Emerald Beaut is the best!

Carla in Sac

Okay, Carla and fruitnut, you're bad, bad, bad. I just now had to order an Emerald Beaut from Raintree, because I only like super sweet stone fruits. And it's late, so more stone fruits longer. And it stays on the tree for several months?!? Ugh. Now, where do I squeeze in this tree I ask you??!! I must stop reading these posts.
{{gwi:61550}}

Patty S.

I know the feeling, Patty. Great photo.

Emerald Beaut may not stay ripe on the tree for several month, but it stays in good shape and gets sweeter for several weeks. Golden Nectar is prettier, but Emerald Beaut tastes the best of the green/yellow Japanese plums with which I am familiar. Needs a late-blooming pollenizer.

One of the Green Gage types may be preferable if you live in a cool sommer climate or a rainy climate where Japanese plums languish.

Well, I'm in the hills of Vista, in N. San Diego county, about 6 miles in from the coast. We don't get really hot-hot in the summer (we can get into the low 90's for a few days here and there), but I think hot enough. And, we probably get between 300 and 400 chill hours I'd say, roughly. So, I'm going to take the risk. I have both a Burgundy Plum, Flavor King Pluot and even a Flavor Finale Pluot (very late) for pollenizers, so I'm good I think.

Patty S.

I've been considering an Emerald Beaut too because of the good reports and because it blooms late. I'm wondering, does it bloom as late as typical peaches? If so, what other Japanese plums will pollinate such a late bloomer.

Great pic Patty. Looks like some kind of orchard to the left of the greenhouse. Are those your trees?

Patty-

Beautiful. Can't imagine having such perfect weather year round. Consider yourself very lucky. I thought today was nice and it topped out at 39F :)

I ordered both of raintree's 4 in 1 pluots (container growing them). Hopefully in a few years I'll have a little more to report on pluots.

Emerald Beaut DOES bloom really late, although I suspect it might be self-fruitful, because last year mine bloomed after all the other J Plums had come and gone, but I still got a lot of plums (let me rephrase that--the SQUIRRELS got a lot of plums--I only got one. Grrrr)

Carla in Sac

Interesting that you had such late bloom last year, Carla. I had a nir compressed bloom season, but my Emerald Beaut succumbed to dog damage and I just bought a new one. I've never thought it was self-fruitful. But in placing refrigerated blossoms from Santa Rosa, Weeping Santa Rosa and Casselman in the tree, I've noticed that bees sometimes go for the blossoms even though they are withered and pretty dry. This might be one explanation for your fruit last year.

Patty, you might find the bloom on Emerald Beaut even later in a lower-chill setting. You might think about setting a few branches from another variety aside in the fridge (in a container with water in the bottom, covered) if it looks like there will be a big gap in bloom.

Olpea, a little hard to predict when it would bloom for you. I think most varieties of Japanese plum recommended for your area would bloom on the late side there (for Japanese plums). The hybrid plum Toka is supposed to be a good pollenizer, too, but I can't vouch for it. You might think about keeping your trees low enoug to throw a floating row cover over the top on frosty nights (to reflect heat from the ground back into the tree canopy). You can fasten it with clothes pins. Won't help in a really hard freeze, but might help in a marginal one.

"Emerald Beaut DOES bloom really late, although I suspect it might be self-fruitful, because last year mine bloomed after all the other J Plums had come and gone, but I still got a lot of plums"

Carla,

This brings up a question for me. I know you have Euro plums and have mentioned Emerald Beaut blooms as late as your Euros. I'm wondering if the Euros would pollinize Emerald Beaut?

I've read before that Euros can't be hybridized with Japanese plums because of genetic differences. In light of what Zaiger is doing with his crosses (plumcot, Aprium, ect.) I'm wondering if Japanese and Euro plums really can't be crossed?

Purdue lists the reason Japanese and Euro plums can't pollinate on another is because their bloom times don't overlap, not because of genetic incompatibility. If that's the case it could be that Emerald Beaut perhaps could be pollinized by a Euro plum because Emerald Beaut blooms unusually late.

If anyone has any clarifying thoughts on this issue, I would appreciate them.

From Purdue:

"European plums will not pollinate Japanese
plums and vice versa due to the earlier bloom time of
Japanese plums. American-Japanese hybrids may be
able to serve as pollinizers for the Japanese cultivars, if
their bloom seasons are compatible."

Here is a link that might be useful: Pollination of Fruits and Nuts

Thanks for the very nice compliment, Frank and olpea. The orchard behind me is a sad, yet typical story here in S. California. It is an 80 acre abandoned Valencia orange orchard. Nearly all commercial citrus groves are gone now in S. California due to the drastically increased cost of water. Even orchards with wells, they still frequently need to supplement with municipal water. It breaks my heart every time I look out in the back. We'll most likely end up with homes behind us, but the plan, if the owners can get things approved through the county, would be 5-10 acre custom home lots, with an 8 acre open area directly behind my house. So sad. If I won the lottery, I'd buy the land, and try to find a way to maybe top work some of the trees to a niche citrus, like Dekopon, and save at least 1/2 of the Valencias as they are the best-tasting Valencias I have ever ever had. They are remarkable.

And yes, Frank, we are blessed to live in the city in the United States that sports, "The best weather in the USA." It is nearly perfect here. We get enough chill to grow stone fruits, but not enough to be an issue with citrus. In fact, enough chill that I can grow blood oranges and get a not of pigmentation. Yes, not so cold that I can't grow avocados well. In fact, behind and north of that orange orchard is a huge Haas avocado orchard :-) And I have 7 different avocados on my property, too. All together, including my berries, I have over 110 different varieties of fruiting trees, bushes and vines.

Carolyn, you're correct in that. I'm going to start recording bloom times of my various trees. For example, my early trees, like 'Desert Delight' is in a full riot of bloom right now, starting about 3 weeks ago. Much ahead of my Bella Gold Peacotum, which is supposed to be blooming about the same time. I'll record the bloom times of my Burgundy, Flavor King and especially Flavor Finale, which is just about the latest plum/pluot out there. Hopefully they will be close to the Green Beaut. Not going to count this season with Green Beaut, need to give it a year to establish to really figure out the bloom time with it, but crossing my fingers it will be at about the same time.

Olpea, I'll pose that question over on the DWN forum and see what the experts have to say about cross pollination between the European and Japanese plums, and post back here.

Patty S.

I keep reading about Emerald Beaut and I've heard about how good it tastes. One thing I wonder about though and it's mentioned in the original post - is it disease prone or problematic? Would it grow ok in humid Middle TN?

Patty:

The likely reason those Valencia are so sweet is that they don't get much water. Any idea how much they do get watered?

thapranksta, I think Emerald Beaut is somewhat prone to brown rot, though I can't say anything about bacterial disease. According to the patent, Wickson and Red Beaut (an early-ripening commercial plum) are its parents. I would rate tree vigor between that of Flavor King (weak) and that of Santa Rosa (vigorous).

Also, Emerald Beaut bruises easily, which may or may not say something about its adaptability to humid climates. Since it ripens very late, there is also a longer season for insect or disease problems to develop with the fruit. If I were growing plums in Tennessee, I would start with a couple of varieties recommended for the region, then try some of the riskier varieties which haven't really been tested in the region.

Yes, Frank. That is exactly why they are so sweet :-) They're not being watered at ALL. Most of the orchard has died. The part that is still alive - barely - is by my house. And that is only due to the way the water drains, and that we have some degree of ground water traveling behind our house, between us and the orchard. So this one row at the end is still living. A perfect testimony to why you should not over-water fruit trees.

Thanks for the info again, Carolyn. Since it's pretty dry in my area, especially during fruit ripening time, I'm hopeful my Emerald Beaut will do well and not suffer much from Brown Rot. We'll see, though, as I have them intensively planted, Dave Wilson-style. So, that may present a problem. We'll have to see how it does. Where are you in California, btw? I'm in N. San Diego county, about 6-7 miles in from the coast.

Patty S.

I'm about halfway between Bakersfield and Fresno, in the bottom of the valley where there is more frost than in the foothills plus lots of winter fog. I have to watch out for stress in some of our trees on Citation rootstock, since summers are so hot here. My Dad had second cousins near Vista, and they grew avocados and citrus on a not-too-big property. I'm in pistachio country, but close to areas where stone fruits, particularly necatrines and peaches, are big business, along with almonds. No commercial citrus nearby, but citrus is possible for home growers willing to accept occasional freeze-backs.

If you have a good copper/dormant oil spray program for your stone fruits during the dormant season and you take a look at your trees for stress or unusual appearance of individual branches occasionally during the rest of the year, I don't think brown rot should be a big problem with Emerald Beaut in your area. It's probably less susceptible than Flavor King and some of the other Pluots, for example.

I have a European plum commonly called 'Peach Plum'. I don't really think it is a peach plum hybrid, but it does have some peach flavor and I really like it. fruit is firm and of good size, not as sweet as Green Gage, but then again few are.

In case anyone's wondering the citrus by Patty's house is being grown in a climate with about 13 inches ave rainfall and no irrigation. Little to no rain all summer. I've seen similar benefits of a water deficit in my greenhouse with everything I grow except some berries and figs. And I think that's mainly getting the deficit right not that it won't work.

Carolyn: What symptoms do you see with Citation concerning too much water deficit, leaf drop? I can increase pluot brix on Citation with a water deficit but have on occasion brought on the deficit too fast and had some leaf drop. Last year some nectarine on Citation were water deficit enough that the fruit shriveled and dropped without the tree dropping any leaves. Those nectarines that didn't drop tested 25-30 brix. On some nectarines flavor improves with that degree of deficit on others it's not good.

Leaf drop is the main problem I have, since the fruit on affected varieties has usually been harvested before this effect sets in. And I think in my case it's soil temperature as much as water deficit that's the problem. It happens in the areas where soil is sandy. I think the stress may set the trees up for brown rot or other damage, too, if you're not careful.

From early-season water deficit in white nectarines (without leaf drop), I've had bitter fruit. Really nasty-tasting.

thepranksta, carolyn above is correct that Emerald Beaut is probably going to be difficult for you due to brown rot. I grew its parent Wickson and found I lost 2/3 to rot every year and I removed the tree this winter. It is still possible to grow many of these rot-prone fruits if you spray for them with a specialized spray such as propiconzole.

Scott

Whoa. I had no idea this forum post was updated.

Carolyn,

Definitely not looking for rot problems. The problem with getting recommendations for my region is that I have not found a reliable source yet - they just say "plums" and "apples" grow well here. I called my county's extension office and the guy was nice enough to email me some informative things but they didn't exactly answer my question about what is specifically known to grow well.

Just now, I found an article online that says Frontier and Ozark Premier can be grown in the Southeast. On the other hand, Stark Bros. says Ozark Premier is "the best choice for the Ohio Valley and the Northeast, as well as the Midwest". So I've stayed in a state of flux and just used this forum mainly to see what people's experience with different varieties has actually been.

At the time of this posting, I'd decided on Shiro and Satsuma. I want to get them from the same place and I want them the same size roughly so I've had a time locating a source. In the meantime, I've been trying to learn as much as I can and trying to see if there is a better choice to start with than what I have determined.

Weren't Shiro and Satsuma recommended by Scott? I think you've probably made a good choice. For more information, you might try the Byron, GA USDA research lab.

Here is a link that might be useful: Byron fruit research, upper South

Yes, Scott told me that he thought it was a great combination if I started with that. I've been trying to locate a source that carries both plum trees and the only place I've come across is Grandpa's Orchid although they have each in a different rootstock (Peach and Myro). I've learned that the different rootstocks shouldn't be an issue as long as I pay attention to the advantages/disadvantages and prune the trees to my desired height/shape.

It's enticing to order from Stark Bros. because of the free shipping offer if I spend $75 but if I ordered from there I'd have to go with my other serious consideration which is the Superior plum because they don't carry Satsuma. $20 spent on shipping from Grandpa's Orchid could buy me another fruit tree at Stark Bros. Decisions...

I will check out that lab you suggested Carolyn. Thanks.

What a terrific pic, Patty S ! If this post is still viable...I wish I could add Emerald Beauty in the central Phx (Tempe) area but I would rarely get those chill hours any more, even though I am likely still classified as zone 9B. Even with low chills this yr, though, everything appears to be fruiting and I did little leaf removal. Am adding a 5 in 1 Plum variety that I don't have to graft myself with some fruits I already have and other off patent varieties like late season Golden Nectar, which I hope to coddle through our summer... "-HoosierJeff" ;)

Some of you have heard a lot of things about Green Gage plum and may be wondering how it actually tastes but have never had the opportunity to try it.

I will give my review and attempt to write a very detailed description of the flavor. (I just picked two plums from my trees to taste)

Reine Claude Doree (sought after variety of Green Gage)

Smelling the outside of the fruit, the aroma is very reminiscent of the intense fragrance of yellow color cherry plums (Myrobalan), some mild soft "apricot" smell, though with some slight "plum texture" as well.

The initial impression from the flavor was "most delightful flavor".

The type of flavor was not extremely unique, but very good. It was kind of Mirabelle plum like (I mean in terms of having a little apricot flavor), a little bit of a lovely Pluot flavor as well.

The flavor is sort of similar to Japanese plums ordinarily found at a supermarket, and almost a little similar to Shiro plums (yellow color) too.

Hints of honeydew melon and green watermelon rind. "delectable" and fully ripe flavor, somewhat delicate flavor but not too weak.

The fruit size was a little bit smaller than the other Green Gage variety.

standard Green Gage (I'm assuming the variety is 'Verte', but I'm not sure)

The fruit size was significantly bigger than the Reine Claude Doree, but might not have been fully ripe. Even despite that, I could tell that it was a lower quality tasting plum, compared to the other one. Still not bad, but kind of a not fully ripe flavor, very slightly "starchy" (not fully converted to sugars yet), or very slightly "tannic" (astringent).

Taste was like a normal supermarket plum but a bit more on the "green" tasting side, maybe a hint of grass and green melon.

I still think this plum could have breeding potential if crossed with something else that is sweeter and more ripe.

The trees are very young and this is the first year they have produced any fruit.

The Reine Claude Doree fruit was also a paler color, like a very pale green, almost as if it seemed to be turning white, whereas the the standard Green Gage was a beautiful green color.

Edit, an update:
I just tasted a standard green gage fruit from the tree again, 6 days later, after it had the chance to become more ripe. Here is my review.

smelling the skin, it has some exquisite plum aroma, moderately better than a supermarket plum. flavor of pluot and a little bit of nectarine. very slight grass flavor. besides from and in addition to that, there's something very "green" about the aroma (I could only compare to maybe Japanese ume plum, or green wine grape flavor).

This is Cambridge Gage. I've recently posted about our glut on this forum. The barrow contains 40 kg, approx half the crop from my tree which is about 30 years old.

Intensely sweet. Like biting into a ball of honey when ripe. But has a sharpness when cooked. Greengages of any kind are my absolute favourite plums. They're rarely available in our shops because they don't travel well and deteriorate fast.

You can see the bloom starts to go as soon as they're touched.