What don't they like about the hardy? I thought they were sweeter and not as tart as fuzzy.....

Scott:

How long had you planted them before they started producing?

I planted a number of hardy and fuzzy kiwi three years ago, and my male plants have big flower buds for the first time this year. I haven't seen buds form yet on the females, so I'm not sure if I am going to get any fruit this year.

I also thought the hardy were sweeter than the fuzzy

Here is a link that might be useful: DallasFruitGrower

Scott, I was going to graft in Hayward but now I am going to try Saanichton kiwi, Raintree has them only $10. I have also Kens Red and Tomuri scions how are they?

Scott -
Are you growing them in pots and bringing them in for the winter or are you keeping them outside year round?
What are your typical winter lows? I think you're a little warmer than I am, but I regularly get down into the single digits every year.

And are they similar to the Hardy types in that they grow like crazy and will take over if not pruned back?

Thanks,
Bart

Bart, my fuzzies (in the ground) have taken temps down to about -2F. My average low is around 2F most winters (but, this last winter was super warm, it never got below 7F). I have never had any dieback at all on my fuzzies. The main hazard for them is the wild temperature swings that can occur in some parts of the country, then they come out of dormancy too early and all sorts of bad things will happen. They are like the hardy kinds in that they grow like crazy, and they look even wilder because their leaves are bigger. When they put out a big new shoot from the base it looks like something from "Little Shop of Horrors".

Ace, Tomuri is a male I believe, a standard fuzzy male. I have a Kens Red and it has been very reluctant to fruit, nothing in eight years.

Dallas, my Chinensis (yellow) and male fuzzies took only a few years to fruit, but the Saanichton took a lot longer -- I think I planted it in 2004. They are supposed to fruit much faster than the fuzzies and I think the spot I had mine in may have slowed it down.

I think the hardy could be more sweet but they all have more "green bean" or some kind of vegetable taste in them. I view my kids as good examples of your standard American taste buds and they don't touch them.

Blake and Exbury are fuzzies which are supposed to ripen even earlier than Saanichton; I only put them in a few years ago so it will be a few more before I know how well they will do. I am near the upper limit for Saanichton but one of those may work for people with a bit shorter season than mine.

Scott

PS typo in the above: "must faster than the fuzzies" should have been "much faster than the hardy ones"..

Scott, thanks for the update. Where did you buy Blake and Exbury?

When did you pull the red and yellow ones? (awwww....) I've got seedlings emerging from a Zespri I stored over the winter.

I ordered Saanichton for delivery this spring. Figured I'd give it a shot, as I luck out with the lake giving me a moderated fall/winter and winter/spring. My lows are similar to yours and the hardy ones do well. I had a great summer 2 and 3 years ago (even with the cold summer 2 years ago) but last year was less successful due to the city demanding I cut back the vines off the arbor. I kept my trimming to a minimum this past winter and am hoping for a bumper crop. first crops took about 4 years, though the males bloomed in 3.

Have you done "Jumbo" hardy kiwi? How does it compare to Anna? I added it last year and should have just gone with the Saanichton then.

~Chills

I wish i could remember what kind i have but by the descriptions above I'd say Hardy cuz they are wild as wild can be and have big leaves, they took 8 years to fruit, and sad to say they didn't mature to an edable size before they went kaput. and some never got bigger then a grape. I was so happy to see fruit, then so dejected to see poop near sept. any siggestions as to why they kaputed on me.

Djof, Exbury was being sold by Raintree (maybe they are out this year) and Blake was from Rolling River Nursery.

Chills, I have not tried Jumbo. I do have Annasnaya and Geneva 3 fruiting of my hardy ones.

Grumpy, if your kiwi had really big leaves (like approaching grape leaf in size) it was a fuzzy kiwi. The fuzzy kiwi leaves are also fuzzy and the hardy kiwi leaves are smooth. Kiwis do now and then die for no reason at all, I had a few do that on me right in the middle of the season. I have no idea what the root cause is.

Scott

heh they feel kindof fuzzy, but they look smooth. Odd thing last year healthy vines no yellowed leaves no wrinkled mis-shapend ones, but fruit failed. however as all the new leaves came out this spring i've noticed a dieback of some vine shoots, which i have never had. I've had years where i lost almost all leaves , but no vine sections died. this year after the healthiest year for leaves, i have my first dead vines ever. go figure. If it's not one thing it's always another.

If they look smooth they are a hardy kiwi. Also they will be sort of apple leaf shaped; the fuzzy kiwi leaves are nearly round.

You are having a lot more problems than I ever did, after a few years my plants settled down. Maybe its too hot there or they don't like something in the soil.

Scott

well still not completely sure, some round some more pointy with a curve at the tip. anyway, this morning i go out and even though i had a bit of die off of vines, all the new growth has buds forming and i mean all. last year the first flowering, i'd say i had maybe a 100 or so total flowers this year will be thousands on less vines. i'll take this year over last any day. I read last night that if not well polinated it would cause fruit to not fully mature. so with as few flowers as i had (not sure what male and female ratio was), that was probably it. THis year i shouldn't have that issue. One thing and i'm guessing, the fact i had fruit at all does mean i had at least some male flowers, right?

There is some chance of getting fruit without a male but it is pretty unlikely. So yes you probably had a male in there flowering. I don't know whats going on with your leaves; I would Google on deliciosa or arguta kiwi to look up pictures of the leaves and you can figure it out from that.

Scott

I have a few hundred A. chinensis plants from Zespri kiwis from the grocery store that are in their second year. I hope to find late flowering, early maturing plants in this population. They are beautiful plants, many with red new growth against the light green older leaves. I'm in Hanover, VA, so I am south of Scott, but probably not much longer growing season. The average killing frost is around November 1st.

Please let us know if you get a good one. I grew a couple Zespri from seed and they were all males. There is one last one flowering now and its flowers now look like a hybrid of male and female so maybe that one will give me some fruit. Kiwinut, a longtime poster here that I have not seen around lately, had a few earlier ripening ones he grew from Zespri seed. Note that all of my Zespri seeds were very early flowering, I think Zespri itself is early and its also being pollinated with early males since thats what must be in the field where they are growing the Zespris you bought. Early plus early equals early children. So, it may be hard to get a late flowering one out of your seeds unless there was a recessive late gene or two in there. My Chinese chinensis varieties are much later blooming (but, they need too long a season).

Scott

It is very improbable you get a late flowering plan from your Hort16a seedlings.

I had until two years ago several Hort16a seedlings (males and females) and all were early flowering and small size fruit.

Hort16a flower at late April and ripe around mid October in my climate (North coast of Spain, oceanic climate, Z9), 1 month earlier than Hayward.

My Hort16a seedlings flowered and ripened at the same dates.

There are other chinensis no so tasty than Hort16a but more appropriated for colder climates, like Soreli for example.

Here is a link that might be useful: Soreli

What I meant to write is late leaf out and early maturity. We are frost free by April 15, so I think that will not be a problem. Some of my plants were zapped by frost as they were leafing out this spring, but others were later and undamaged.

I was inspired by kiwinut's results with his few Hort16a seed plants. I recall he mentioned it may be the best tasting fruit he has tasted. I don't mind smaller fruits, especially if they can taste better than the delicious Zespri golden kiwis. I'll update when they start to fruit.

Axier I wonder why the fruits were all small. It could be related to the male that pollinated the fruits you started from.

Mescalito, I don't know how important late flowering in fact is for our climate, even on some of my very early flowering chinensis seedlings they all avoided the frosts. This year my kiwis are very late, most of them have still not bloomed. The season length has been my main problem.

Scott

Mescalito, a seedling better tasting than Hort16a? I doubt you are so lucky. All my Hort16a seedlings were clearly worse than Hort16a. Anyway, they were good taste.

Scott, taking into account the males are mainly selected for a profuse flowering, good quality pollen and good synchronization with the female, it is not important if it is son of a poor quality fruit female. Its mission is to pollinate the female, not to transmit a good inheritance to the seeds. Because of this, I didn't surprise when I saw the small fruits on my seedlings.
Moreover, Hort16a is an small size fruit compared with Hayward. Frequently they are helped in commercial orchards with bio-stimulants to increase the fruit size.
I have seen amateur Hort16a plants and their fruits rarely exceed 100 grs.

Regarding this, see what is said in the pay-per-view document "âÂÂHort16Aâ Kiwifruit: Progress and Issues with Commercialisation":

"The biostimulant BenefitPZ is commonly used following fruit set to enhance growth rates of Hort16A fruit. Rates as high as 3.5 g per day have been reported (Lawes, 2001), and as a consequence, the fruit size distribution at harvest can be markedly shifted toward the larger fruit sizes. This biostimulant has had a significant influence on the commercial development of Hort16A and is now used widely among Hort16A growers. In contrast, the biostimulant has not been shown to have such beneficial effects on Hayward fruit growth. Yields of 10-12000 trays/ha (30-36 t/ha) are readily achieved for Hort16A with fruit size in the range 80-140 g"

If you see a 140 grs Hort16a fruits tray in a grocery store, be sure they have been biostimulated.

Scott, I'm glad to hear that even the early chinensis flowers are undamaged in our area. There definatly is some variation in bud break timing and frost tolerance in the seedlings, and since the Hort16A is a hybrid of two genetically different A. chinensis, I am hoping that some may fit this climate. I don't know if the male(s) used to polinate the Zespri crops are from the same cross, if so, my seedlings would be f2 generation.
As Axier mentioned the males used for pollination aren't selected to pass on good fruit quality to the next generation, so that could potentially prevent me from finding plants with fruit as tasty as the mom's. However, Kiwinut had only two female Hort16A seedlings ripen fruit for him, one he said was similar to the fruit he got the seeds from, and the other was smaller but more productive. He said they were both fantastic and very sweet, and as I remember, the smaller fruit was possibly the best fruit he had tried. I don't know if my seed is the result of a cross with the same father as his seed, but I have over 300 plants to choose from so I am hopeful I will find something I like.

The bio-stimulant is interesting. I wonder what it is? Size of fruit is not as important to me as flavor, but I can see how it is useful commercially.

I looked at the BenefitPZ website, and it is based on natural vegetable extracts and contains nucleic acids, free enzymatic proteins and amino acids. It increase the number and size of the cells of the fruit without changing the fruit's quality. Besides kiwi, it is used on stone fruits, melons and cucumbers.

What is the best method to tell when fuzzy kiwi's are ready for harvesting? I also have a 'saanichton' planted but this is only its third year so no fruit yet.

If your climate is like mine you just let them hang as long as you can without freezing on the vine, and then put them in the fridge and wait til February or when they start to soften a bit.

Scott

Scott,
I am in zone 7 in NC so my climate should be very similar to yours. I assume it is ok to let them hang on through light frosts which is usually the end of October around here. The first killing freeze is usually early to mid November. I assume you could eat them sooner than February if they were left at room temps instead of holding in the fridge?

Shane, I usually harvest them in November, they can take killing freezes since there is a lot of sugar in the fruit. Basically 25F is the cutoff. This year I harvested them in early December. There is probably no reason to let them hang after the leaves have fallen off the plants but I usually do it that way. This year some were actually ripe and edible when I harvested in December, likely due to all the warm weather they experienced while on the vine.

I have tried to age them on the counter and found they rotted before they got ripe. This was with some yellow kiwi varieties, I never tried it with the Saanichton. Once you get your first harvest you can try putting a couple on the countertop to see how they fare if you want.

Scott