Where exactly are you in Z7, east, west, humid or dry. And how long is your growing season?

I'm thinking you say dwarf because you are thinking pots. Well you don't need dwarf for pots. The small soil volume will dwarf the tree all you need. I have both dwarf and standard rootstocks in pots mostly for stone fruit. The standards are more vigorous but are easily controlled by pruning. I'd rather have the extra vigor.

Almonds and many other trees you mentioned can bloom very early. The early bloomers are usually difficult to grow in Z7 unless you have an unusually long growing season.

I can offer some suggestions if I know where you are. A nearby city that is representative of your climate would help. I can look you your climate on weather.com.

The Fruitnut

Hi Fruitnut.... These will be planted in Mariposa county, California.... the lower part of the county so it gets snow flurries but rarely sticks. I gets very hot and dry in the summer. It can be windy in the location I am considering but I don't think too windy?

So you mean if you plant in a pot, the size of the pot will limit the growth of a standard rootstock? It's all new to me. I have an orchard book but haven't been able to dig into it yet.

Almonds are a very popular crop just down the mountain in the Central Valley. I "think" they might do well there but not sure if I am too high with the added cold nights. I will try to get the elevation.

My primary concern for pots is that I am battling birds big time with my garden. I am having to net everything. So I am thinking I need to keep the trees smaller in order to manage bird damage.

safaribabe: I'm fairly familiar with the climate around southern Mariposa county. I'm actually considering moving to that area, maybe Waterford. The primary disadvantage of being at say 1500ft elevation in the foothills compared to the valley is that your growing season is 60-90 days shorter. This can mean a lot of spring frost damage. On things like apples and pears, it's not likely to be serious. But on early bloomers like almonds, apricot, and some of the plums, it can be a serious limitation.

Birds love all these fruits. I'm thinking I'd build a bird proof cage over all my plantings. One big cage about 9-10ft high is more efficent than trying to net each tree. Keep the trees small and have high density.

Your best bets would be apples, pears, some peach and nectarine, and sweet cherries because they bloom later. All these can be planted about 5ft by 8-10ft and held in check by summer pruning. The same rootstock will work in pots or ground. For apples a semidwarf like M26 or M7 maybe M9 on good soil. On cherries look for Giesla 6 or 12, maybe 5. Citation is good for stone fruit.

Trees in the ground are easier to grow than in pots. If you fail to water pots just a day or two, it can be serious. Watering in the ground is easier to automate via drip or sprinkler.

The Fruitnut

Hi Fruitnut.... thanks for getting back to me, sorry it took me a while to get back. I contacted the AG office in Mariposa and they are going to send me some info on what trees do well. Do you have an idea of the kind of cage you will build? Have you seen any such cages? I keep looking online but don't seem to come up with any.

My plan was to grow some cover crops over the area where I want the trees and then next spring, plant the trees. while they are small, I can individually net but in a few years, will be looking at something larger to protect them.

Do you think spring will work for these trees at this elevation?

"I posted this in the tree forum and was shrugged off as "too vague" a question."

Really? I thought Gardengal gave you an extremely well thought-out and well worded answer.

Here is a link that might be useful: Tree Forum Thread

Hi, Safaribabe! I go to Big Box and buy 20 gallon utility tubs with rope handles for about $5.00 apiece. I drill drainage holes in the bottoms, and plant dwarf apples and blueberries in the tubs following the guidance of Dave Wilson Nursery on the web. It works really well. Good luck. Misterbaby

bumping back up....

Fruitnut, I have been looking at the Stark Bros catalog but they don't seem to mention the rootstock. It's just standard, semi-dwarf or supreme semi-dwarf. Is this something where I need to call them to get more specifics on the rootstock? Do you ever mail order or buy just from nurseries? Are you going to plant your trees in the ground or in pots if you move to that area?

Misterbaby, that's a great idea. Are there any concerns about the toxicity of the plastics? I actually spent the weekend looking for the right pot to transplant my lime into and didn't like what I found. I also am going to start some more blueberries in pots. So I like your idea. How often do you have to repot?

Fruitnut, one other thought... what about keeping the trees in pots and growing them in a greenhouse so if they blossom early, they can be protected and kept warm in a greenhouse? Even if it's some of those cheeper pop up type that could just be used as needed. Think that might work?

Why order from a mid-western nursery like starks that doesn't even tell you what rootstock their trees are on? You have so many westcoast nurseries to choose from.

If you plant in containers, I'd go to a local wholsale nursery and ask them if they have any heavy 25 gallon containers they'd sell you, or ask a local landscaper, who probably has hundreds of such containers to dispose of every year.

You can also probably grow some varieties of Euro plums where you are which bloom about the same time as peaches.

Check out Raintree or Apples of Antiquity. A of A nursery is inland from San Louis Obispo (sorry about spelling) and would probably have some knowledge of your conditions. I'm sure you could get some guidance there.

Don't forget about your cooperative extension, if budget cuts haven't rendered it useless in your bankrupt state. UC Davis is a great ag-school.

Re-hi! Safaribabe, I agree with most of what others have said, except that I don't find it any more difficult to irrigate in pots. I am not concerned about toxicity in the $5.00 blue tubs at HD. Stark Bros. is not forthcoming about their rootstocks. I've had great results from Trees of Antiquity, although they are pricey. By keeping the limbs well pruned, I haven't yet found the need to re-pot or prune the roots. Misterbaby.

Hi Harvestman,

I am not 'attached' with any particular nursery ie, Stark. You make a good point about looking around for local nurseries. I have been trying to do that more in my lie... buy locally and all. I have tried to get some info from Mariposa Ag office which is UC Davis but all they did was send me a few printouts from the web on trees. I had really hoped to get more specific information from them. I might try again and get the 'real guy' versus a volunteer that was who sent me the info.

I am glad to understand better that there might be something 'fishy' going on with Stark not disclosing their root stocks. I was looking at Raintree's catalog and they are much more specific about the root stocks.

Misterbaby, do you stick to dwarfs or as fruitman said above, use standard trees but just keep them well pruned?

I have the Backyard Orchard book but only snatches of time to read it. And from what I am reading here, it could take YEARS to get fruit from a standard? I am looking for a shorter time frame!

Safaibabe,

Of the fruits you listed in your OP, apricots, Japanese plums, nectarines, and peaches are precocious on standard rootstocks. If managed well, they can fruit a little the second year. Apples, pears, and cherries generally take longer to fruit on standard roots. Don't know about almonds.

Safaribabe, you're getting tons of good advice! There's nothing "fishy" going on at Stark Bros.--it's just that most of their customers don't care about rootstock specifics. I have some Bud.9's and Geneva ll's in pots, but I'm going to put in some bigger roots this fall or next spring. The potted trees look really healthy, but I think the utility tubs could easily support a stouter tree. I think I'll go with G.16's from Cummins. Misterbaby. P.S. Don't forget about mulberries and like that.

Tee-hee, I don't really either care! Oh, I mean I do, I would love to learn.. but by the time I get a handle on it, and feel educated enough to make a decision, it will be next summer! I partially want someone to say, here, pick these 7 trees from this nursery and they will do fine with the right care and you will have fruit next year or in one year. My life is so crazy busy that the more I dig into this, the more paralyzed I get! What the heck now is a Bud.9 and Geneva 11's?!

Ok, I know this is soooo lame. I should do my own work and figure it all out. I will and am, but in the meantime, if you were to buy from this nursery with this worksheet, what catches your eye? This nursery is near us and also sends the trees you pre-order to participating nurseries.

http://www.davewilson.com/br40/pdf/SOFTorder.pdf

You have to understand... I have a full-time job, a 2.5 year old, a commute to work and a vegetable garden I am trying to keep going. I want to add trees but just don't have time to be come a amateur professional just yet! So go easy on me! :)

If you picked some out, then from there, I could look at the variety and see if it sounds good. I need to trust some people on the rootstock aspect. I have land... 7 acres. But it is heavily visited by deer and quail and bunnies. So theoretically, I could plant them in the ground. But until I can address the wildlife problems (they really did a number on our veggie garden), I really think I need to keep them in pots so I can contain them and move them as needed. Perhaps with looking at planting them in the ground in the future. I already have a grape, raspberry, blueberry and blackberry going.

I would also like to add, I am one of those people who believes we are headed for a world of hurt in this country so I am trying to get our land going on producing food. I feel the need to get to this sooner than later and not after I spend a long time researching and understanding the amazing science of propagation, grafting, rootstocks, etc. But I know it is also critical to understand it on some level in order to pick the best variety for our location and needs.

(off to bed.. where I should have been hours ago!)

Whether in ground or in pots the deer issue will be the same. You need a good fence. Your idea of small trees for netting is quite reasonable. For apples, M26 rootstock might be the ticket- they need to be staked though.

Absolutely... but if they go in the ground, the space I need to assign to them and then fence would be much larger than if I put them in pots where I can move them around and as I am understanding, will be kept smaller by the fact that they are in containers. I already have a fenced deer proof (so far) garden that can accommodate about (8) 20 gallon pots of trees.

Safaribabe,

There's nothing wrong with wanting some quick advice. I've been on forums before where I just wanted some quick answers without investing a lot of time. We all have busy lives and different hobbies.

I'm not from CA, and have no desire to go there (even to see the Safari babes) but I'll do my best to offer a few recommendations. Obviously, I'll defer to recommendations from a fruit growers who have actually lived there.

For sweet apples, I recommend Fuji and Mutsu. I like Pink Lady as a sweet/tart. The above ripen later in the year. They are all susc. to the major apple diseases, but I doubt you have too much problem with that in CA.

For Apricots, a lot of CA growers rave about Royal Blenheim. It probably blooms pretty early though. For a later blooming cot, try Harglow. Tomcot is also praised as an apricot that gives a more reliable crop, due to a long bloom period.

Peaches. Most any should do well for you. Some that have ranked high in Dave Wilson taste tests include: O'Henry, Indian Free, Harken, Loring. Harken ripens midseason, around Redhaven. Loring a couple weeks later. O'Henry and Indian Free are very late season peaches.

Fruitnut is really the one who needs to give you specific advice. He's lived out there and does a lot of container growing. He should be able to help you with varieties as well as good rootstocks for containers.

If you want some good west coast mail order nurseries, I've ordered from Bay Laurel Nursery (CA), VanWell Nursery (WA), Burnt Ridge Nursery (WA), and Raintree Nursery (WA). I've also ordered from C & O Nursery (WA) but was a little disappointed that they tacked on a "packing charge" on the order. I've received good stock from all the above, and they all have Websites.

I have never heard of anyone using containers specifically to dwarf fruit trees. Container fruit tree growing is something rarely done unless there is a compelling reason- like to bring trees indoors for winter of for lack of space. This is because container trees are more demanding-

Soil is a much more dynamic medium than potting formulations- it holds more water, more nutrients, and anchors better. Hmmm what else?
But then, I don't have to deal with golphers. If I did, I might make "containers" out of galvanized rat wire. I'd still use soil and maybe a container with the bottom cut off it to raise the soil above the gophers. CA growers probably have other solutions.

If you want dwarfing I suggest you do it with rootstock. For stonefruit you can use Citation or St Julian. Quince for pears, which would be a good idea anyway as pears will take much less time to bear on that.

I just went to a nursery in town and the guy there was very helpful. I had printed the PDF above with the 'shopping" list for the SOFT program at Daves. I marked the trees that the nursery is intending to get in. I have until Nov. 11 to add any special order trees. The guy recommended quite a few varieties which post below. He was pretty much against growing the trees in containers. And the more I think of it, I might actually try to grow in the ground. Especially for the water factor Harvestman. Our well is very low producing and the least amount of water we use, the better it will be.

I think I need to start thinking of the best gopher container. I can buy the ready made baskets or make my own which we did for some other plants. GREAT point about making sure that the wire is above the ground around. I will also need to make sure that the tree is walled with 1" wire as well because we have TONS of rabbits all over. But the more I think of it, the easier it will be to mulch and reduce water consumption.

Olpea, thanks for looking at the list. I will print it out and go through it and see where what the nursery guy recommended and what you recommended match.

Harvestman, the pears that Daves has that are semi-dwarf are on OHxF333. How might that compare to Quince is it the same?

These are ones he really likes:

Arkansas Black Apple on M-111
Cherry Dwarf on Zaiger (other options are genetic, Colt or Mahaleb for semi-dwarf.
Semi-dwarf Frost Peach on Citation.
Warren Pear on OHxF333

Also, a Semi 3 in one pear but he cannot remember the name right now. And a Ashmead Colonel (sp?) somethign like that?

I haven't heard any raves about 333 and I really don't know why quince wouldn't be the popular dwarfing rootstock in warm CA. Nothing beats it for precoscious bearing. There must be a logical reason I'm unaware of, though, because it's pretty hard to come by these days.

I'm sure 333 would be fine, but I do wonder why commercial growers don't use it. I've heard it produces smallish fruit so maybe that's why, but if you're not selling it what matters is flavor.

I have heard 333 works well in California and Oregon. Thats about the only places it works mind you but I have heard it works in those places. Real lazy dog here in CTex.

Scape

Yeah, OHXF is pretty slow getting established even with the more vigorous clones. It's the fireblight resistance that has been the key to its popularity I think.

There is a nursery in Iowa specializing in pome fruit.
Rootstocks for apples include G30, G16, G11, EMLA 7,
EMLA 27, EMLA 26, and Pajam 2. They will be happy to
answer any questions you have. If you have any questions
or desire a certain rootstock, email POME Nursery.

Here is a link that might be useful: POME Nursery