Devon, I agree with you on Brother Cadfael. It is HUGE here, I have to keep pruning it to keep it under 12'...but you know, he doesn't mind, and I do get a lot of flowers, and they're great in a vase. I am not the most skilled gardener and Austins don't always do well for me (Abraham Darby's puny after 3 years, Pat Austin did not make it, some of the Dark Ladies here just stay spindly...) but Bro. C has grown gangbusters from the get-go.

Great thread.

Jerome

Ahem.
Roses maligned are oft maligned with good reason. We can only report what we grow. And when the producers of roses produce plants on inappropriate rootstock, or plants with combined Rose Mosaic Viruses, the resulting roses are going to do diddly squat in some less than optimum conditions (mine).
Other folks may have gotten plants of the same cultivar that are intrinsicly more healthy OR they may have soil that matches well the foibles of Dr. Huey rootstock.
But I don't malign a rose because I enjoy the maligning. Rather, it makes me sick to see a rose that should be growing well, faltering because of RMV or rootstock issues.
Without the forums, I would never have learned that other rootstock options exist. But that doesn't make the knockdown dissapointment of growing a rose badly go away. Esp when the same cultivar from a different supplier (often found because of the options suggested in the past decade and a half here) is a great rose in my garden.
Sorry, but you asked and I grew over fifty Austins from Park Wayside of which 45 had RMV problems that showed up in three to five years.
That part of my garden should have given a decade of joy; instead it became 1) lessons in shovel pruning, 2) a sincere appreciation of the same cultivars from Pickering 3) a growing appreciation of ownroot roses from smaller producers.

I don't know about maligned - more like complaining about too much pink, too much sameness and octopussy syndrome, lousy bloom density, a British hybridizer who made a fortune thinking ahead but his critics stayed behind etcetcetc - all common complaints traits of other roses slammed.

On the bright side, I can tell you the one that had negative reports that I like and that is Gertrude Jekyll.

Why? Number 1 reason is killer fragrance and with the exception of the bourbons, it is about the only rose I check for fragrance.

Number 2, incredibly good bounce back from winter as an own root whereas 95% of own roots croak for me - I originally planted 5 plants in three different areas in the gardens). I actually shovel pruned this year some of the "increased grow" as it was taking over one bed.

Number 3, grows tall relative to zone 3 in where most of my out of zone roses are height challenged to go beyond 3 feet.

Drawbacks for me is it is heavy duty thorny and a bit too much blooming at the tips.

Riku, I'm also surprised when I hear Gertrude poorly rated. She is one of the stars in my garden and when she blooms (3 to 4 excellent flushes a season) she absolutely glows. Her many many blooms are amazingly fragrant as well - she's right up there with Jude the Obscure. So much depends on the source's choice of rootstock and care in avoiding RMV. Almost all of my Wayside Austins declined with RMV or bad rootstock, but the ones I've gotten from David Austin are really really thriving. Same roses, different nurseries.

I love the topic of this thread. The answer for me is without doubt "HERITAGE".
I held off on purchasing it for a long, long time because of all the bad press it has received on this forum. To my surprise, it has performed wonderfully in my garden. This is a very special rose to me due to its soft & pure coloration and form that makes me think of an old centifolia, it's awesome fragrance, its habit of blooming non-stop spring through first hard freeze, & its near thornlessness.

Randy

Heritage has been my favorite, but I had to go through a few different plants to find one that would grow well. Sadly, most of my wayside english roses are being replaced. I bought them before I knew about virus. The ones from DA in Texas have been outstanding in my garden.
Many of the roses with a bad reputation for all growth and not as many blooms have been better for me as own root plants.

Geoff Hamilton has a very bad wrap for not repeating etc. For me this rose is excellent if I can save the blooms from the thrips.

Excuse a non-native speaker but shouldn't it be "bad rep" as in reputation? Idioms are notoriously difficult for learners, so please correct me if I've missed something.

Opinions seem to vary about Abraham Darby, one of my favourite roses. Its colour is perfect in my mixed purple/apricot bed and it blooms constantly.

Marianne in Sweden

When I think of a bad rap I think of the roses that Austin has chosen not to grow any more but of course that was because they didn't do well in England. Lordly Oberon always comes to mind. It was discarded as non-vigorous. In my California garden it is fabulously vigorous to eight feet with lovely blooms.

Anntn6b, I understand what you are saying and respect your
opinion. I hope you have gotten other Graham Thomas roses,
because it is such a great rose.

By the way, excuse my slang on the word "wrap".

Devon, we knew you meant "rap", but few of us would ever bother to correct someone's semantics on a forum such as this :-)
Lord knows I've been guilty of malapropism a time or two here myself.

I like what Pam had to say. I'm thinking Pretty Jessica would fit in that category too for a lot of its fans in the U.S.

Randy

Definately HERITAGE and PRETTY JESSICA. They get blasted for poor disease resistance, which hasn't been my experience. I can think of other English Roses, which get heaped with praise, that are a lot more susceptible to black spot. Both are also dependable bloomers here in the Mid-Atlantic. My biggest problem with the English Roses is the sketchy repeat, but I can always count on Heritage and Pretty Jessica to be generous bloomers. Then there is all the griping about shatter-syndrome with Heritage. Well last year, as an experiment, I cut a spray of blooms from my Heritage while the flowers were still in tight bud. Every other day I recut the stems and changed the vase water. In the end I got 5 whole days of beauty before tossing the spray. The petals were still attached. The only reason I tossed it was because the blooms had started to decompose and rot.

Heritage & Pretty Jessica are GREAT roses.

Another English Rose that gets dumped on by a certain California rosarian is THE PILGRIM. I have two specimens being grown espalier-like in partial shade and each is a gorgous performer. I can't stress enough the difference that own root makes with the Jolly Green Giants. It is simply the only way to go with the more vigorous Austins.

Patrick

Oh Pam you have Lordly Oberon?! That was the first rose I lusted for oh so many years ago when I read Clair Martin's 100 Old Roses For The American Garden. I could never find it to order.

I would love to see some photos if you have any! : )

Devon for me the rose is Othello. I just absolutely love the blooms on this rose. In my climate it is a very bushy shrub about 5 feet tall and the blooms are heaven to me. Huge cup shaped purple-y pink and very fragrant. I realize he throws octopus arms in other areas and he has the most thorns I have ever seen on a rose, but I can forgive it anything.

Heritage was the first David Austin rose I ever bought, and this beautiful, fragrant, vigorous rose inspired me to buy many more Austins. I have about 30 DA roses now, but Heritage remains one of my favorites (and definitely my husband's favorite - tied with Jude the Obscure). It is the first to bloom in the spring, blooms off and on all summer, and is one of the last to finish blooming in the fall.

Well anyone who wants a free Heritage is welcome to come to my house and dig it up and take it away!

Fungus strains vary from one location to the next.

Patrick, I completely agree. I had 2 St. Cecelias and the one in the morning sun only was a much better plant. I moved the other over next to it and now both are trememdous. I also find that the plants needed 3 or 4 years for some of my English roses to repeat regularly.

Jackie, I would not give away my Othello no matter how many thorns! He is not where he can do anyone harm anyway. Belle Portugaise has done me more injury than poor Othello and is 10 times the monster he is.

Buford, I'm on my way to Georgia.

Randy

I could understand why some people dislike Heritage. Perhaps they received a dud or a virus infected one just like mine.

My Heritage was absolutely perfect last year. Foliage was completely clean, and glossy and it never without blooms.

But now, its a complete disaster probably due to mosaic virus. Leaves turn yellow and brown and wilt easily in fun sun compare to last year; flower production has declined and the rose bush is thorny than last year.

It's really sad to see how a healthy rose ended up like this. I'm thinking of getting rid of this rose and replace it with another rose later this year.

So I guess a rose getting bad press could be due to:

a) environmental factors such as how many days you water your roses, feed your roses, prune your roses etc. Due to water restrictions here, I could only water them 2 days per week and temperatures can reach to about 40+ C.

b)infected / virus rose.

Jude the Obscure - a lot of people say its a stingy bloomer. But the first flush I had was outstanding. It repeats a lot faster than Falstaff or A shrosphire lad.

The flowers of JtO were a lot beautiful in real life than in photos. Even my older siblings think JtO looks stunning than my other roses.

I would have to agree with Kittymoonbeam about St. Cecelia - except that mine was happier after I moved it into a large pot and gave it more sun. She does have some issues with rust and PM - but much less so with more sun. The plus - her fragrance is just great. I think sometimes we just have to find the right spot...

BettyN