I grew it only in a hot climate, which isn't what is best for it. You'll get a better flowering from it in milder (read less hot) climate where the spring to early summer flowering will not only last longer, but the individual flowers will last longer, be richer colored and have more fragrance. Perhaps in a cold climate, it might permit you to grow it as a shrub, but not in a long, warm one where it just wants to GROW. Kim

I grow both Marianne and Alchymist. Marianne might get the shovel this year. It's prone to canker in my yard, huge, and the foliage looks too modern for my taste. I don't find it an attractive plant when not in bloom. Alchymist is pretty young, but I like it better. Don't know how it would do as a shrub--it's sending out long (around 12') canes. I've heard that you can grow it as a large shrub, but it needs support.

I like it very much, but it does get some blackspot here and I agree with Kim that it likes to grow. Mine is on a large arbor and is taking off from there into a nearby tree. In my climate the bloom time in spring is long, but springs are fairly cool here. The canes cover themselves in blooms, no two exactly alike, and the blend of colors is lovely. I don't notice much fragrance. Papi Delbard is also a beautiful climber with similar colors. I don't know if it could be grown as a shrub but it is not the whopper than Alchymist is so far. It is more bs resistant and is fragrant. If you grew Alchymist as a shrub it would take up a lot of room. It is very thorny.

I simply think it would get too big for you Jimmy. I grow 2 - one on a hillside nearby and one in my cutting garden. With limited space and a long growing season like yours - it is hard to find space for once bloomers - unless they are absolute "must haves". I really like this rose since all the flowers are different and have different shades and good fragrance too. I posted a picture of some blooms floating in shallow bowl of water on HMF - see link. If you really want a geat rose this big - Gloire De Dijon would be worth looking into - it will get very big too (Huge) and rebloom - but I am not sure you have room for roses that can get that big? Some years ago Sue posted a picture of her Gloire De Dijon - which turned out to be an Alchemiste rose :-)) quite amusing. I grow an older Austin - Charles Austin and I think it might be worth considering for you too - it forms a big shrub and repeats really well and the flowers have the same colours as the Alchemist and are really fragrant.

http://www.helpmefind.com/rose/l.php?l=21.110566

But I know roselovers - once we have our eyes set on something - we want to try it - and all roses are so different and unique ..

Another smaller rose - is Chippendale - a Tantau rose that is doing really well too - check out that rose too :

http://www.helpmefind.com/gardening/l.php?l=2.40559&tab=1

Here is a link that might be useful: Apricot Merenques

I was thinking about 'Alchymist' myself some years ago, and then I saw a plant of it in hot late spring weather, in full bloom, in the sun, and every flower on the plant was dried to pinkish tan wadded tissue paper. It was an ungodly sight. NOT a rose for places where it's hot during the bloom season. This was in the Po Valley, hot, rather humid summers, chilly wet winters. It came off my want list at that moment.
Melissa

Thanks for all those comments.You guys have been very helpful. I've decided to give this rose a miss.
To me, Papi Delbard looks a bit like abraham darby and I've already got AD.
As for Gloire De Dijon, a lot of people in the hotter climate had commented that this rose gets all kinds of problems so I'm reluctant to give it a try.
I really love the look of the Chippendale rose, but it's not available here.
Perhaps I should plant my DdM next to AD and hoping the bees will do their work and hoping I'll end up with a Marianne look-a-like rose.
I really really love the look of Marianne rose. Arghh!
Same applies to David Austin florist rose, 'Juliet' which is unfortunately not for sale.

He he Jimmy - it is frustrating to desire roses we can not obtain and want to try growing. I do not see the Tantau rose Chippendale for sale in Australia - yet - one Nursery in NZ has it under the name - Duchess of Cornwall - but it will of course not be an Alchemiste or a Marianne SIGH. I would also not try the open pollenation of DdM x AD you mention ... even with correct pollenation and protection of the hybrid - chances are very, very slim that you will come up with a Marianne - as you may know -(Have you tried germinating some of the seeds from hips on your roses?) - it is interesting - and many of us do try. Out of many thousand seedlings from crosses I did - I have only had luck with one in 12 years - all the rest turned out to have flaws and poor disease resistance - and the majority died during the last 2 long hard winters here - I suppose they were not hardy enough to make it then ... I only have one rose left - nice shrubby growth habit , constant bloomer with small fragrant cupshaped apricot flowers and even better - great, disease resistance. I have budded several and they survived the winters (and discowered it did well own root too) and are now sending a few to rose friends as I increase my stock of plants so they can try it out. It may be the only rose worth growing I will ever make in my lifetime ...

Gloire de Dijon is a real challenge to grow here too .. (colder, milder climate) I have one 6 YO plant - a 2 cane wonder - that gives me 30-50 flowers every year ...but I had to try it ... I always imagine it would do better in sunnier milder climates as I have seen in France and Spain. But I really sulks here ..and many describe it as hard to grow. Unlike Alchemiste - it does great here. Hope you are doing well Jimmy - it is snowing here today - we got the first snow friday - but the winter has been extremely mild so far up here in Northern Europe.

I have planted several big thorny climbers on the 8-foot chain link fence in the far corner of the back of my garden. Alchymist is one of them. They can grow as big as they please, and the only creatures that will be disturbed by the thorns will be the deer. I have no problem with annoying the deer. As long as the deer leave my garden alone and don't try to jump out in front of our car as we drive along, I wish them no harm, even enjoy watching the herd browsing. Unfortunately they are prone to both of those activities.

My plant of Alchymist is young yet. I think it is going to be beautiful. I hope it will be big. As for ugly spent blooms, if I walk out there and see them I can take them off. If I don't feel like doing that the massive old olive tree will screen them from view from the rest of the garden. Placement can work wonders!

Rosefolly

We grew Alchymist long ago. It was removed because DH wanted something remontant there. Of course NOTHING we've ever put there has done well, so I wish I had Alchymist back.

The plant was from ROY&T, so it was budded, on Huey, and virused. It made a very graceful climber of moderate proportions. It bloomed for quite a long time in the spring, in astonishing volume. Planted on a fence, at the top of a retaining wall, it hung festoons, covered with blooms, as eye-catching as any banner. The blooms color-shifted, so that you had every conceivable shade of golden yellow, all over the plant, at the same time.

Perhaps Alchymist was not an ideal rose for hot, dry, inland areas, but it was quite a sight, in this coastal climate.

DH still wants remontancy up there, so our next attempt will be a row of three Chinas: "Elisabeth's China" (red), "White Christmas"/(probably 'Ducher'), and "Magnolia Cemetery Rose" (red). I won't have festoons of gold in the spring, but I'll have drifts of red and white at Christmas. :-)

Jeri

I would like 'Alchymist' a lot more if it weren't 3/4 leafless by the time the blooms peaked.

Well, in truth, back when we grew Alchymist, we sprayed.
Weekly.

So there's no telling how the foliage would fare here, now that we no longer spray.

Jeri

I love Alchemist and want to try it in zone 6 Michigan. The weather here is unpredictable, although the general rule is hot and humid summers and cold winters; of course its all relative as I dont think our hot is comparable to Australia hot. I notice this thread was begun before the wildfires in Australia, and before many other events. Gardeners are needed now more than ever. I did finally obtain the beautiful Jeri Jennings from Rogue Valley Roses. I wonder what Paul Barden is up to?

@Lynn Moss "I wonder what Paul Barden is up to?"

I'm around. Not working on roses anymore - I quit in 2010 - but I'm still here.

About 'Alchymist': I still have it, but it doesn't do well. You see, I stopped spraying fungicides in 2009 or thereabouts, and many, MANY roses went into decline after that, succumbing to repeated defoliation by Blackspot. 'Alchymist' persists in spite of the fact that it is pretty much leafless by mid-June, and never really grows its leaves back till the next year. I have no idea how it survives this way. So I warn folks, that if there is heavy disease pressure in your area, you have to be prepared to spray to prevent disease, or the odds are 'Alchymist' won't perform well.

Great photo erasmus. I just let mine flop around. You were very courageous.

Wow - Erasmus - I dream of my 2 Alchymists looking like yours. Reading back through this thread mine turned brown and clung on as well, so now wondering if it might be a little too warmer in NyC/7b than it likes. I love them, but thinking of giving to a friend who just moved up to the Hudson Valley, so cooler.

Thanks. I'd have to snag a cane with something I used to tie it down. The thorns on that one are mean! I'm in zone 7a, so it does get pretty hot here but not as hot as some places. This rose is rated as hardy to zone 3 in Botanica's Roses, though I saw winter damage on it in zone 7a. Botanica's pretty consistently over rates hardiness IMO. Also agree that it's pretty bs prone. STILL! It was nice to grow it for awhile. Have not replaced it. Got The Impressionist instead for a warm blend that repeats.

I’m wondering — there any consensus out there where/what zones/conditions Alchymist is happiest?

@aerbk7b I think you can grow it well in almost any climate, as long as you protect it from disease. Its a versatile plant that adapts well to many environs.

Paul Barden — thanks you! But re your first comment about it not doing well w/out fungicides — I don’t spray at all. And NYC has basically become subtropical — that’s why I’m wondering if Alchymist would do better on it’s own somewhere cooler? Less humid? Or? Any thoughts much appreciated!

Sorry - meant to include these links but they didn’t attach. Not about roses specifically but have been thinking about the climate change here and what that means for my own garden as well:
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/24/nyregion/climate-change-nyc.html

https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2019/national/climate-environment/climate-change-america/

I live in SW michigan, in the snow belt. Its likely a zone 5, i think. I have grown alchemist for 5 years. it did spectacularly 4 years ago, 1 year after moving to our new house. here it is pictured with Jean Lajoie.

The next 2 years it lost a lot of cane in the winters, and had very few flowers. it would bonce back and put out a few strong canes every year, but no flowers since it flowers on old canes.

this year. after a mild winter, I got a decent show:

(The rose in front is Guirland d'amour, 2nd year . amazing growth, very hardy and full of blooms. No fragrance unfortunately , but it should fill in that spot well. )

Leaves get chewed on by rose slugs and deer, but overall is very vigorous.

So, in summary, it's not completely cane-hardy here, flowers are beautiful and mild-moderately fragrant, thorny, strong canes.

I keep it because it really is worth it for the flowers, and by pairing it with a repeat bloomer I don't mind the lack of flowers the rest of the year.

Does anyone have ideas for klematis to plant together with alchemist rose? Or any experience with this?

Purple like Jackmani or blue like Perle d' Azur would look wonderful!

Hi Paul,

I am a newbie from Ohio. Some of us would do anything to be able to buy more of your creations. Is there any chance you or Janet at RVR can find someone to propogate more of your roses? I would love to have your rose, Janet Inada, and all of the rest. Pretty pretty please. Do you offer custom propogation for them? katelyaker@gmail.com

2HU-526288397

I've emailed you about this.