It's normal growth and leave it. I'll be uploading a pruning video probably tomorrow that might help with this exact issue.

Thanks Paul--I'll be on the lookout for it and good job anticipating my problems! I was just about to watch your other one this evening.

I'll be looking for that, too. I've made a couple of what I now think of as BIG mistakes when I saw that kind of growth last summer...
Laura

Paul, I have a 1-yr old Mons Tillier, probably 4' tall. He had a few cane breaks in January, and then we got some temps under 20 degrees. The new canes were probably about 24" tall and still swishy - not hard, and they froze a good 5", maybe more. I made the decision to cut them all the way down rather than leave that short length that I really wasn't sure wasn't damaged even farther. Did I do right?

Sherry

Hi Sherry,

In your case yes. Anytime you have frozen or damaged canes you have to take it out. In fact in the video I prune my Souv d'Un Ami and it has a cane broken by the recent snowfall. I chose it for that very reason and talk about it.

I have Georgetown Tea both at the arboretum and at home--and the only plant which looks more bizarre at this point is Mrs. Dudley Cross. Thanks for reinforcing the "wait and see" attitude. In contrast, Mrs. BR Cant seems very purposeful and I can tell where she's headed! (The others look like somebody sat on them!).

Thank you, Paul, for the answer, but you have evoked another question. My Chromatella, Duchesse d'Auerstadt and E Veyrat Hermanos all had the same situation, but I simply cut back to healthy cane. (This was before Mons Tillier.) Now I notice Chromatella and EVH have put out new growth from the end of the canes - kind of umbrella-style. Will this work out alright? I view it as "the more canes the better." They are only 1-yr old also and not very big, but EVH is now going to town with new growth along the canes. He's gonna be a big one, I think. Chromatella is much more reserved; DdA somewhere in between.
Thanks for being on this forum!
Sherry

Now I notice Chromatella and EVH have put out new growth from the end of the canes - kind of umbrella-style. Will this work out alright?

*** I can't see your plants, but in most cases, these "candelabras" are non-productive.
That's why we quit shortening canes.
When you do it, you get that effect.

Jeri

*** these "candelabras" are non-productive.

Oooh, Jeri, sounds like I should take out those shortened canes. I didn't know this.

Sherry

Hi Sherry

As Jeri mentions it's best not to cut them back but when you have freeze damage you have no choice and you did the right thing. When we had that hard freeze two years ago in April I had to cut some Teas back to 12" high because of the damage. But I did so knowing it would take a few seasons for them to build back up.

I am also a more canes the better and a more foliage to make food the better person, particularly when a rose is recovering from damage. Leave it all on for now and look to removing the umbrella style growth later like even next year. But wait until something replaces it first.

Think of rejuvenating instead of pruning.

Very good, Paul. So those umbrellas will not end in flowers. Interesting stuff. I'm really curious about this. Why does this damaged cane produce non-productive growth? (I know, because it's damaged!) No, really, does anyone know the mechanism behind this?

When I do remove the umbrella style growth later, do I cut it to the ground - or where?

Thanks.
Sherry

When you remove it later just find a good bud eye and cut there. With luck you won't get the umbrella growth.

Or if it does for some reason bloom well then leave it. Roses are independent that way and the best person to decide what to do is - you! If you like it keep it, if not get rid of it.

Paul

Oooh, Jeri, sounds like I should take out those shortened canes. I didn't know this. Sherry

*** Well, for a young plant in particular, those canes at least have leaves, so they make energy.
We've tended to retain them, until the plant has enough other canes to do without them.
And when they ARE gone, it's remarkable how much handsomer the plant becomes.

Paul makes a good point.
With these ever-blooming roses, don't think of it as pruning.
Think of it as rejuvination. Eliminating the oldest and less-vigorous growth
to make room for the new vigorous growth.

Emergency triage (as Paul describes after a freeze) is a whole different kettle of fish.
I wouldn't think of THAT as pruning, either.
More like emergency surgery.

Jeri

OK, so it's the umbrella growth that's odd. And cutting at the budeye will just promote a single growth there - hopefully. On the bright side I've got 3 times as many stems now. :))

Thanks, Jeri and Paul. It's been enlightening.

Sherry

Sherry, cutting a big fat cane at a bud-eye doesn't necessarily mean you're
going to get a single cane coming from it.

It MIGHT.
But in my experience, that ugly candelabra is more common.

It's something I wouldn't choose to do, unless there was no other viable choice.

Jeri

So that cane's days are definitely numbered. I'm figuring one day I won't even miss it.

Sherry

Paul, I just watched your promised video. It was very helpful! I'd just like to confirm with you that when you shape the tea, you just lightly clip the shape you want and don't look for a budeye? It seems like you almost never look for a budeye then with teas and chinas. I wonder if electric clippers would work if this is the case?

Hi

I don't look hard for which way the bud eye is facing. I do cut above a bud eye and I suspect I've done this so much it looks casual.

At the nursery we use gas powered clippers (or electric) to do a quick first cut but I would always advise you do a follow up shaping by hand. But nothing wrong with starting with electric or gas. We do it because with some 3500 roses to prune it's the most efficient way to do it.

At home I prune by hand because I truly enjoy it.

Glad you like the video. I'm having a blast doing them and everyone's response has been encouraging. Send me suggestions for new ones.

Here is a link that might be useful: Rose Care Videos.

Thanks for the follow up. You really have an excellent presentation style--very clear, very good voice.

The only thing I could think of for more videos would be to show mature heights and widths of various kinds of roses, to compare them and help us figure out what to plant where and who should be planted next to who. Might be only the true rose geeks that would watch though...

Oh and maybe show different kinds of pests--showing what they look like, what their damage looks like, and how you treat.

Barbara, I've found that Mrs. Dudley Cross takes a few years to build up her "structure". Until that time, she's pretty relaxed. By all means, if possible, give her time to build up that "scaffolding", you'll be glad you did. I can prune her now that she's mature, when necessary, and she's easy to shape.

Randy

Paul, I loved your videos! Very helpful and what a personality!! Keep 'em coming.

One I'd like to see would be on spraying for the non-sprayer. The simplest, easiest, least expensive while still effective way to occasionally spray Hybrid Musks which in my yard get blackspot. I know it sounds like I'm lazy, but really it's a very scary thing to me with all those expensive chemicals to choose from. I also don't want to be locked in to weekly spraying, and I don't want awful chemicals. I bought sulphur and copper but I don't know what to do with them. (I just read that these ARE pretty bad chemicals!) And now you're saying, "No way, lady." And I understand. I was just wishing. But I'm sure I'm not alone.

Thanks for the great videos.

Sherry