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Advice for Beginner Who Just Bought 19 Roses!!

14 years ago

Hello Everyone,

Hoping for some help here. This is the first time I've ever posted. We just bought our house late last summer so this year I wanted to fill our garden with roses. I have had 4 hybrid teas for a number of years. However I love the antique/old roses. I just ordered 19 roses!! They will be delivered the last week of April. They are all bare root roses.

I need to put most of them in my back yard which has all day sun (south facing).

I also need to have some climb the east wall of my garage (east facing). For this I'm thinking the 2 Joseph's Coat and 2 Don Juan. The wall is about 10ft. Will it be too crowded with 4 roses?

Next is my front yard (north facing) I have a bay window which I would like to have the 2 Golden Celebration climb around. That wall does get about 4 hours of late afternoon sun.

I also have some walls in the back yard where I could have some roses climb and will be building some obelisks this weekend.

Does anyone have any experience with these roses and suggestions for placement (i.e. against a wall, obelisk, needs full sun etc.)as well as some idea of how much I can expect them to grow the first year and how much space I will need long term for each.

Sorry for being long winded but I need help!! I would be most grateful for any comments.

Graham Thomas

L.D. Braithwaite

Winchester Cathedral

The Ingenious Mr. Fairchild

Golden Celebration

Brother Cadfael

Fair Bianca

Tess of the dâÂÂUrbervilles

Geoff Hamilton

Abraham Darby

The Prince

Spirit of Freedom

Teasing Georgia

JosephâÂÂs Coat x 2

Golden Showers x 2

Don Juan x 2

Comments (11)

  • 14 years ago

    I can't really be of much help since I live in a totally different climate, but I grow Don Juan and I remember something about it being cold sensitive. It is a wonderful rose here in Florida, but I am not sure it will survive in zone 5. Hopefully someone more knowledgeable will jump in and say I'm wrong.

  • 14 years ago

    I'd suggest cancelling the order altogether and ordering one or two to start with. See how those do. Learn more about the kinds of roses you are thinking about. Then add to your collection as you acquire the information you need. In my not so humble estimation you are biting off an awfully large chunk of the unknown. Your order is quite heavy in Austin roses, and if they fail to thrive in your area, you are going to be sorely disappointed on a very large scale.

    My two cents, and probably not even worth that much.

    Susan

  • 14 years ago

    Geoff Hamilton is a 4 foot tall shrub here, I love this rose. It's very winter hardy, forms a lovely shrub.

    I've had The Ingenious Mr. Fairchild for two years. So far it has been compact, not yet mature. It looks like it might mature in the 2-3 foot tall range.

    The Prince is a superb rose, forms a 2 1/2 foot tall shrub, a compact rounded shrub. It likes plenty of sun.

    The Mills Rose Garden in Syracuse grows Brother Cadfael, and I plan on adding it to my garden next year. At Mills it's about 5 feet tall. It's a lovely shrub.

    They also grow Fair Bianca. It's compact there...although I don't recall how tall, I think about 3 feet tall.

    I'm not familiar with the yellow Austins, but the pink Austins are fantastic here.

  • 14 years ago

    Wow, talk about ambitious! I am a fellow Canadian, but don't have much experience with your roses in particular.

    Here is what I would say: For sizes, including in first year, check out Pickering Roses website. Then, for planting and care, have a look at basically all the videos from Ashdown Roses (google it). They are terrific and confidence-inspiring videos.

    I would say, though, that you may be overly optimistic about growing climbers up your walls and around your bay window. Maybe not, depending on what you are thinking it will be like, but roses are not tightly manicured vines that grow tightly against walls and around windows by any stretch of the imagination. They are shrubs that fire out wild, thorny stems than can be tied in or pruned, but it is a different proposition than I suspect you are envisaging. We gardeners have vivid imaginations, and the reality doesn't always match the vision...the other point is in Zone 5 you will have die back on your climbers especially, unless you undertake superhuman efforts. Your Joseph's Coat, for example, will have issues up against a wall all winter.

    I suggest that you need to pay close attention to your soil, first, and get these into the ground and start learning by doing. Some won't make it, perhaps, almost all will, and I bet most have to moved in future seasons(almost certainly, however much advice you get or research you do). But they move easily enough and there is no substitute for experience...take it from me, who doesn't have nearly enough.

  • 14 years ago

    I would pay the closest attention to cold hardiness in your zone. There is a lot of info about that if you look up the roses on the internet. I would start with Help Me Find (roses), but look at other places too. There are special roses, including climbers, which have been bred to do well in your climate zone - you might want to look into them.

    Although it is true what simcan says - roses are not twining vines, it is certainly possible, without that much work, to get them to frame your windows so that you can see them from inside. We have large banksie lutea, Cl Cecile Brunner, Sombreuil, Cl Iceberg, Cl Blaze, & Buff Beauty roses climbing up various sides of our house. My husband gets up on tall ladders and ties them up and prunes them where needed once a year (in the Winter, so as not to disturb birds nests). Consequently I have at lot of windows in 8 different rooms that blooming roses peek into at one time or another. It is wonderful. However, I am not suggesting that you grow the roses I have named - I am in zone 9. I am sure there are roses that will grow up your house and that you can easily use to frame windows. No idea if those are on the list you ordered - you really need to check on the cold hardiness of those, and if it is borderline or not good, maybe you can look into others that might do better in your climate. Good Luck, and welcome!

    Jackie

  • 14 years ago

    I did order my roses from Pickering Nurseries so hopefully they wouldn't sell me something that wouldn't be hardy in my zone. I'm sure I will loose some and probably in the first year. I did pile up leaves around my 3 existing hybrid teas and they seem to be coming back. I'll just have to keep that up and maybe up my anti for next winter. I know 19 is a lot but I figure "go big or go home". Plus if I have a lot and a few die I won't fell as bad as if I had bought 2 and had both die. I figure it will keep me motivated :)

    krista_4 - Thanks for the input it gives me something to work off of. I will post pictures if I can get anything to grow.

    simcan - I sure hope they don't grow tight against the wall. I just removed a whole wall of ivy that was getting into the bricks. Don't want that to happen again. We will be putting up trellises that will sit at least 4 inches off the walls and we will be tying the roses to that as they grow. We will be adding bone and blood meal to the soil before planting and will fertilize as well. I also just watched one of the Ashdown videos and it was really helpful. Going to keep watching more. Thanks!!

    Thanks for everyone's advice and if you have any more keep it coming. Nothing is better than experience but tips from experienced gardeners sure help.

  • 14 years ago

    I think my zone is slightly warmer than your's but only just. I have grown Graham Thomas, Golden Celebration, Abe Darby on own roots and The Prince as a grafted.

    Abe Darby is probably the most hardy of this lot. He has a pretty exposed location and he is tip hardy for me. Also very vigorous, non-fussy and gives tons of blooms.

    Graham Thomas and Golden Celebration are a bit more tender than he is but still decently cane hardy for me. Decent vigor too.

    I had bought The Prince as a grafted plant and he was huge when I got him. Grew like gangbusters, very hardy. Shorter plant than the previous three, like 2.5 feet ish.

    Abe Darby especially loves to throw out long octopus canes so I have his against a trellis. That way he doesn't keep waving everytime there's a breeze.

    I'd say just give them some decent winter protection and cross your fingers. I have stopped bothering with winter protection because we get so much snow every year that's it's amazing insulation anyway...

  • 14 years ago

    I'm close to your zone I guess -- I'm also Zone 5, around Toronto.

    Of your list, we have grown these ones:

    Fair Bianca - Myrr scent, not as strong as some others and I happen to really like it. To my nose, this one smells like Black Licorice. Fairly compact with tons of white blooms, clustered together. I love this rose. No fuss, no disease trouble ... almost carefree. It does like sunlight. I moved her after her second year into a corner spot where I could smell her as I walked by, and she got more sunlight there and seems a lot happier than before. Now, a wonderful rose.

    Tess of the d'Urbervilles - Kind of a climber, but not too much because of the winter dieback. She's root hardy for sure but you'll need to prune off about half of the canes each Spring. She'll shoot up again, but won't "climb" the way you might be thinking. More like a trellised rose, or against a wall? Also slightly more of a pinkish-red than I was expecting. Still, a beautiful rose.

    The Prince - One of my favourites! The colour is to die for. The fragrance is also to die for! Likes a lot of sun. He is a compact little plant, but I wouldn't want to be without him. Some people don't like him because the lower half of the plant can be a little leggy and barren, and a but ugly. Mine is pretty good and I have lavender planted in front which hides any barren legs and just looks wonderful.

    Don Juan - This one is in too much shade to really bloom properly, have to prune the tree that has overgrown next to it. But it seems hardy, I don't winter protect it. Beautiful red blooms.

    I should add that I don't winter protect any of my roses (except the Noisette) except for the first year. I pile cedar mulch the first winter, but I leave them after that and they do just fine!

    I would suggest that you make sure to ammend your soil properly before planting, and not just the rose planting holes but the entire area. If I could fix one thing in my gardening experience, I would do this :) And all of your roses will be much happier for it!

    Also, I should also add that all the roses came from either Pickering or Hortico, grafted. I bury them very deeply, partially to protect from cold winters, and partially to encourage them to go own root. Not sure which ones actually have, but I'm in a very similar situation as you.

    The Ingenious Mr. Fairchild - I have always wanted this one, but have never gotten around to it yet. Mostly because of the name, although the peony-like blooms looks so blousy and beautiful to me :)

    We had Golden Celebration but it didn't last through it's first winter. To be fair, it was in a pot not in the ground and roses here (no matter which kind) have trouble surviving the winters in a pot. It was doomed from the start, and I suspect would do much better in the ground but I can't be sure.

  • 14 years ago

    Good luck with Don Juan it's a heat lover usually zone 6B/7 through 9.

  • 14 years ago

    I'm in 9b and my 2year old don juans are both planted together against a small trellis and I don't think they're over crowded. Not sure about joseph's coat but don juan seems great for a smaller space. oh yea if you don't want them to get leggy on you make sure you keep the canes at a 90 to 45 degree angle so they fill out more. I would also listen to what more experienced rose growers have to say about your zone and the hardiness of your roses. I bought a queen elizabeth rose without researching her hardiness in my area and now I'm regretting it. she suffers from black spot terribly here in central florida so now I look specifically for roses that will thrive in my area. good luck!

  • 14 years ago

    i have golden celebration and it might need more than the 4 hours per day you are going to allot for it.
    good luck with your purchase as we all know how exciting it can be.
    there are some real savvy gardeners on here so heed their advice.