This is so timely - I have several of the 'treasures' at home but was at a client's today lightly weeding the 'trashy' version. I would like to at some point replace all of her C. minor with major so some will have to stay for now until such time as I can source out a few good plants to begin some colonies. It can be hard to come by though unless I find it at native plant sales.

It's interesting as C. major slowly seeds and at least in my garden after a couple of seasons becomes a huge mound whereas minor really replicates quickly and is not quite so large. That's another way I tell the difference.

Thanks for the pictures - this one is really tough to ID I almost go on instinct as to yank or not to yank in yards.

Mindy, when I read the subject line, I thought you might be referring to Ranunculus ficaria, which goes by the common name of lesser celandine, rather than Chelidonium majus or greater celandine :-)

Ranunculus ficaria is also a very weedy, rather invasive species but one I rather like. I certainly wouldn't recommend planting anywhere near a natural or woodsy area but in a cultivated woodland garden (with no chance of escape) it makes a bright spring showing before disappearing completely in summer.......a true spring ephemeral! I planted a few of the bronze leaved forms ('Brazen Hussy' - gotta love that name!) in my old woodland garden and they spread nicely but manageably. They did spawn some plain green-leaved offspring which seem to be much more aggressive and those I removed.

Now my weedy poppy relative is Meconopsis cambrica or Welsh poppy - an enormous pest that is terrifically difficult to get rid of because a) it self-seeds like a banshee and b) has a deep and persistant taproot.

gg, i con FU sed. as usual, your knowledge towers over mine. did i use the wrong names?gee, that would be sooo embarassing.
mindy

Since you were using common names, no right and no wrong :-) It's all good!

Chelidonium majus DOES go by the common name of greater celandine (less commonly, celandine 'major'.) and is surely the plant in your pics. However it is a monotypic genus (only a single species) so I dunno about celandine 'minor'.....maybe just a weedier, seedier variant? If I were ID'ing, I'd say the second (celandine minor) was probably Stylophorum diphyllum, aka celandine poppy. IME, both are equally weedy :-) btw, just to confuse the issue further, greater celandine is also a common name applied to bloodroot, Sanguinaria.

But I do not know of any plant other than Ranunculus ficaria that is commonly referred to as "lesser celandine" :-)

Oh, those darn common names!! They get ya every time!

Here is a link that might be useful: celandine, per wikipedia

well, gall darnit,gg,i am so MAD at how confusing this is - that I may just be STUBBORN and refuse to learn the correct names. But then again, what's the point of writing a teaching post, with the intention of helping people, without using the proper names?!!
Thank you,
mindy

Mindy, GG I missed that too in the original post that the native of N. America is really S. diphyllum.

Sometimes, with all the confusion of the common names (the Baneberrys, Cohoshes & Snakeroots come to mind as a real pain to keep straight especially since they reclassified Cimicifuga racemosa to Actaea and Snakeroot can refer to either those in Rununculus or Aster family) I like to refer back to the family name the plants originate from then it clears up many of the identification issues. Good for indentifying what pests, diseases they are prone to as well. As in this case, Rununculaceae & Papaveraceae as GG pointed out solves which celandine belongs to where.

In any case, I have spent two days pulling the weedy (here in zone 5a New England) one and the pile is easily 2 feet high. In the other part of the garden, I have 6 of the large flowered, larger lobed one, and some babies underneath one or two. These increase by one or two a year. I wish it reproduced more. I think it would be a cheerful companion for any blue muscari, if there was any room between the muscari, but the only thing between the muscari is more muscari.

Marie

Dear gg and gng,
Well, you botanically conversant gardeners you, I�ll have you know that you have accomplished a rare feat. (Aside- over the winter i became a 3-4am bedder and 12-1pm riser.) YOU have gotten me up before 11am. Because i woke up fixating on, and finally realized, what you were telling me about these 2 plants.

Now let me get this straight. You two botany savants are actually telling me that these two plants, that have leaves THAT I CAN HARDLY TELL APART, that have near identical flowers as well, that these two plants are actually NOT in the same GENUS?? that one is a poppy and one is a buttercup???? I am scraping my disadvantaged brain to find any similar case in the world of perennials. I mean, the 4" tall weed of japanese knotweed... is in the same genus as the much taller-larger form of polygonum bistorta superbum. IN THE SAME GENUS!!

Why do i have the strange sensation that you two are going to come up with a number of other perennial examples of like situations(i.e. near identical form but different genus)?

Or is this likely to, some time in the future, follow the course of the polygonum/persicaria/falopia re-categorizing??(I figure every expert field has their To Do list, right?)

I await, somewhat sleepily, your answers!!
best,
mindy
(note how, when i�m embarrassed, i never put the website link!)

Mindy, both the Chelidonium and the Stylophorum are in the poppy family (Papaveraceae) and DO look remarkably similar - C has more bluish-green foliage and has a doubled flower cultivar ('Flore Pleno') while S has somewhat "hairy" foliage. S is a native plant and I'd think a bit more common to gardens here than the European import. FWIW, the foliage on S can be somewhat variable in foliage form so maybe what you have is two variations of the same plant, just as you thought and more or less equally weedy. But not the plant you originally assumed :-)

And of course the ranunculus is a different beast altogther but with the common name of celandine applied, just added to your (and my!) confusion.

gallDARNIT, gg. o.k., by reading the 2 wikipedia entries, for the c plant and the s plant, i see that they have the very same division, class, order, and FAMILY(poppy) but their genus is different. i don't understand what makes for the difference in genus, but i do at last see it.

and i also see that their seedpods are completely different. long and skinny for the weedy Chelidonium and round and hairy for the treasure Stylophorum.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stylophorum_diphyllum

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Celandine

and the treasure is Stylophorum or Celandine Poppy
and the weed is Chelidonium or Greater Celandine.

"My brain is full. can i go home now?"(gary larsen)

gg, the Ranunculus ficaria, or Lesser Celandine>> it has really spread this year- all over beds. it disappears in summer but does it Choke and Vanquish before that, so i should be weeding it out? thanks much.

mindy

Well, thanks to everyone who contributed. I now know that I do not have celandine poppy, but instead have Chelidonium majus or greater celandine. Regardless, it's quite a weed!

Mindy, I only remove the ranunculus when it becomes too prolific in its spread or when it starts growing where I don't want it. I find it relatively easy to remove but since it flourishes and blooms before much of anything else gets going and then it disappears, I tend to leave it alone most of the time :-) I do remove any solid green leafed clones that appear as these guys are simply too rambunctious!

gg, mine are ALL solid green leaf....i THINK.
mindy