That's an "oldie"!
It should be a Briggs 190707. There are 4 different IPL's for that Model, so can you read the TYPE# off the engine?

I think the first thing I'd try is checking the vent in the gas cap.
You might also try "priming" the carb with a teaspoon or 2 worth of gas to get an idea if it's fuel related.

Cleaning the cooling fins is a good idea. Maybe you're getting "vapor lock" from the heat???

Thanks for the quick response! Yes it is an oldie and smokes a little but I keep up with it by adding oil often. It cuts nice and there's no loss of compression thus far.
Okay, here are the specs

Model #: 195707
Type #: 4025-01
Code #: 9705224E

And if this helps, the tractor serial number is: 190308M

I'll try the gas cap vent. Do I just losen the cap and see if it runs better?
I'll try the priming of the engine.
and can you explain vapor lock?

One more thing I noticed, the priming bulb on the fuel line is rock hard when the engine quits. Usually I can pump it and hear the gas run through etc right before I start it. Does this indicate something?

Thanks again!

That appears to be a replacement engine?
The code is the year built, so it was made-
May, 22, 1997.
Not as old as I expected.

Vapor lock is basically the fuel in the carb overheating and the excess vapors actually being too rich to burn.
I'd be even more skeptical of that being the case though with your "newer" engine.

Just loosen the cap to check for venting!

Do you get heavy black smoke when it dies? That would indicate too much fuel, which is the opposite of what I'm thinking.

That also has a fuel filter (RED) that should probably be changed. Get the correct part. Using the filter for a fuel pump equipped engine on a gravity feed application could result in similar symptoms.

Just loosen the cap to check for venting!

Do you get heavy black smoke when it dies? That would indicate too much fuel, which is the opposite of what I'm thinking.

Today after work I tinkered with it a bit and before starting it I tried to prime it with the bulb but again, the bulb was rock hard. So I cranked over the engine and nothing happened. It only ran when I sprayed starter fluid into the carb. It would run a little on it's own without the fluid but would stall eventually. When I managed to hear it up it would hesitate just like usual with the gas cap on of off. So what now???? Is it a carb problem?

And where is the fuel filter? I can't locate it. Is it before or aft the fuel pump?

That engine IPL doesn't show a pump!
Are you sure you have one?

The stiff primer bulb indicates a clogged passage.
However, the IPL shows a choke type carb!

Go to the Briggs website and download the IPL for that engine.
maybe somebody did a swap and used the original carb?

http://www.briggsandstratton.com/maint_repair/manual_and_more/

Bill,

I contacted JD and they said that the tractor does infact have a fuel pump because it's not gravity fed. So maybe the engine specs don't show one because they assume the aplication will be gravity fed. But yeah, the diagram on JDparts.com shows exaclty what I have, a vacuum operated pump. It attaches to the engine cover. If you give me your email address I can send you pictures of what I have if that would help. (I currently have the cover off and the fuel pump hanging by a wire to heep it upright)

The carb does have a choke, but while it's hesitating when running, something is moving back and forth erraticly. I'll show you in a picture when I take some tomorrow.
but yeah, the bulb is so stiff, when I press it fuel has nowhere to go and leaks from where it's attatched to the hose. Something is wrong here.

Also, I took the coil off and cleaned it. What should the coil points clearance be? Some guy told me to use the piece of cardboard from the box the sparkplug came in and that would be good clearance... I did that and it works the same as it did.

Thanks for sticking with me through these problems and I hope soon we can solve this thing once and for all!!!

Air gap should be .010-.014"
Send the pics to-
bkapaun AT hotmail DOT com

I'm somewhat confused, since the IPL shows a engine mounted fuel tank???

Bill,

I can't post html on here so just cut and paste these links from my server. There are four pictures here showing my configuration.

The engine cover (flywheel cover) is the part that has the serial number from the engine on it, could this have been replaced and not the engine? It's weird, even if it is a new cover it still has the mounting holes for the fuel pump so it must be designed for that.

Here are the pictures:

http://www.ewschaapartworks.com/images/05-28-08_2033.jpg

http://www.ewschaapartworks.com/images/05-28-08_2034.jpg

http://www.ewschaapartworks.com/images/05-28-08_2035.jpg

http://www.ewschaapartworks.com/images/05-28-08_2036.jpg

IS that a primer bulb from an outboard motor fuel tank?
It seems with all that hose wrapping around the engine, it could heat the fuel.

You never answered if it puffed black smoke when it quits???

The shroud could have been replaced. Having mounting holes for other "accessories" could be very possible. Why have a separate PN for the same thing without holes?

Just for :giggles:, try making up an "ice pack" out of a plastic bag (bread wrapper) and wrapping it around the fuel line between the carb & "bulb".

There's not much hose wrapped around the engine, with the fuel pump attached properly to the engine cover everything looks to be in place. And no, it doesn't puff black smoke. The problem is that now it just doesn't run without starter fluid so i'm taking off the hoses and the "bulb" to see if there is constrictions in the lines, i'll update you after that.

That almost looks like a fuel bowl in one of those photos... I myself would pull it off and have a look to see if you have any sludge in the bowl... and see if your flowing any gas into the bowl... I know that would be difficult with the fuel pump...

but I would try and bypass the fuel pump with some temporary gravity feed rig just to see if your flowing fuel past the needle valve into the bowl.

good luck

Here are your pictures so we can all see...

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{{gwi:325276}}

Oh thanks! I didn't think you could post html on here. this does make it easier.

Yesterday I checked bulb again and it wasn't so firm, it started no problem and ran till it got hot and again it started to hesitate, and when i throttled down, it quit. BUT, I was able to start it right away again (with the throttle still at the lowest) Does this indicate anything. Also, if you look at picture number one where I circled the fuel pump, you'll see an arm (choke??) right at the top of the circle where the red line touches the rod attached to the arm, well that whole arm moves back and forth while it's hesitating. What does that mean? (I know little to nothing when it comes to these engines, but I am learning!)

I'll work on it this weekend and let you know what I found.

I will take out the bowl and clean it if needed, i'll remove the priming bulb and bypass the fuel filter by gravity feeding some fuel and i'll let you know what happens.

I would remove that "primer bulb" completely and just run fuel hose from the pump to the carb. The fact that the primer bulb gets hard means the fuel pump is working and pumping fuel, but the fuel can't get past the primer OR into the carb. If you eliminate the primer bulb then you would want to look at the float and needle valve. My thought is that either the flap valve(s) in the primer bulb is getting stuck, there is a piece of that flap valve or other debris in the fuel line or the float is getting stuck. I would first eliminate the primer bulb, it is not necessary. Maybe even put a piece of tygon (yellow see through) fuel line on so you can see any debris if there is any getting through the fuel pump.

I would remove the bowl first.(have a drip pan handy)
With the bowl off, ALL pressure should be relieved from the primer bulb.
I'm thinking a piece of crud may have "chunked off" inside the fuel line and is blocking the carb needle and seat.
Remove the float & needle and use the primer bulb to "flush the line.
I'd "lose" the primer bulb when reassembling.

Check your valve clearances too.

Fish

One more thing friend ...

I agree with these posts about removing the fuel bulb - I dont see its value added with fuel pump in your picture.

If you are actually going to clean out the carb bowl - and I think you should ... try to use a clear fuel line and PLEASE get yourself a fuel filter.

However - please note that there are some fuel filters that are rather specialized and they are designed specifically to operate with a fuel pump in the system.

I myself am not able to tell you - if you need one of these special filters. Perhaps the dealer can - or someone on this thread could.

If you can NOT get a clear answer on this filter type - then I recommend experimenting with a Joe Blow filter and see where this gets you...

If you have the same symptoms after all your carb cleaning / new fuel line / no bulb effort... Then I would go out and try to get one of those specialized filters.

I suspect that these have a one way valve in them which works in conjunction with the lightly pressurized fuel being delivered from the fuel pump. If this is the case - be careful as this means that the filters are direction sensitive - and therefore would give you problems with an improper installation.

As I write - I suddenly wonder about your primer bulb being firm ... It also is directional ... Did you perhaps remove it - and put it in backwards? This would explain why the fuel pump is firming it up and your carb is empty.

what ever you do - get a fuel filter in that system regardless of what is required. Perhaps you should by one of each type and save yourself a potential trip back to the shop - you'd spend that much in gas anyway :)

good luck to you.

"As I write - I suddenly wonder about your primer bulb being firm ... It also is directional ... Did you perhaps remove it - and put it in backwards? This would explain why the fuel pump is firming it up and your carb is empty."

Good point!
I would remove the bulb too.

oh yeah - i forgot ...

That rod / arm that is moving erratically is probably your governor kicking in and trying to keep your motor alive while its starving for fuel.

Dave

"Check your valve clearances too."

While you normally don't think as much about valve clearance with a flat head engine, I once bought a nearly new riding mower from a dealer that did not have enough valve clearance on one valve. When it warmed up, no compression. Customer returned it, Dealer couldn't figure it out. DID you check engine compression when it quit? Turn engine by hand cold, turn when it quits. Valve seat could also be hopping out when hot.

Walt Conner

No, I did not remove the bulb or any part yet. But by popular demand, I will take it out and leave it out. I'll be working on it tomorrow and i'll let you know what I come up with, i'll also borrow a compression tester from auto zone and check that too.
I don't think it's losing compression when hot because why would it be hesitating instead of just flat out dying?? It'll go from good power to no power and back and forth about once every second and just die when I throttle down. I'm now pretty sure it's a fuel deliver problem. But we shall see, i'll update you all on monday.
Thanks for all your help!

I just called my buddy and he said check the vacuum hose from the crank case operating the fuel pump. When the engine gets hot it could be causing the hose and or fitting to soften and leak and lose vacuum. hmmm.. i'll add that to the list and check it too.

When a block overheats, the area holding the valve seats
will warp back, cocking slightly the valve seats, but also
moving the valves toward the tappets slightly, and if the
resultant clearances are too close, the engine starts acting
squrrelly when hot. While the redneck engineering is
very tempting to suspect as your culprit, checking the valve
lash is a good idea, and could save you a lot of time and
money, and checking them costs nothing anyway.
And yes, that looped linkage goes to your choke, it
should stay back/open, there should be a spring holding it
open, if it is broke, wire it open.

Fish

Haha... redneck engineering huh?
I guess doing the compression check first when cold then hot will show me if there's a problem with the valves there. If I get the same compression both tests, we're good there and i'll move on.

not neccessarily, the lash could be at the point where
the valve fails to seat enough to run poorly, and then
by the time you got the compression tester in place, the
valve could have cooled/contracted. Also, compression
gauges are not much help with these engines, checking the
clearances would be better.

Sorry, about the redneck thing, here in Ky., it is an
art..............

Fish

Can anyone provide me with a guide to checking valve clearance for my engine?

You have to remove the breather cover behind the carb.
That gives access to the valve/stem lifter.
You have to remove the valve to CHANGE the lash, but not to check it.

Not your average DIY task!

Looking at that "primer bulb", I can infer that Deere felt it was needed to "manually" "re-prime" the fuel hoses, pump, and float bowl after a "fuel out". In order for this primer bulb to work, it must have an "inlet check valve/flap" and an "outlet check valve/flap". Since there is no visible fuel filter, I would guess that some kind of filter or screen is in this primer bulb (and that may have clogged). Also, I can suspect that the primer bulb might actually be causing a "vapor lock" condition when hot. As to the primer bulb being "hard"........that would be normal if the fuel hoses were full of fuel and would only be soft if air was present in the hoses (like after a fuel out).

Solved it! With a list of 10 things to do, I started with by-passing the primer bulb and bam! fixed it! I ran it fast and slow for about 30 minutes straight, drove it around for a while with my daughter on my lap (she loved it!) and it never once hesitated. The true test will be when I cut my lawn and run it under load for 90 minutes.

Thanks for all your help! I'll be back when or IF I have anymore problems.

Checkout WWW.Youtube.com. They have several videos that are well done on valve adjustment.