hello Tmac

1. You absolutely can grow great ones.

2. There really not that many violets that give you the best chance to get Best in Show. You can get a blue ribbon with a lot of them, though. There are some violets that naturally grow very symmetrically, do not need a support rings, etc, etc. Get a book "Growing to show" by Pauline Bartolomew - and it covers the ground.

Walmart - are usually Noname. No go to show. But OK for home and can be very attractive.

It is important to disbud. It is important not to let them touch one another while you are growing them.

Your lights seem too close.

Nowdays it seems that all serious competitors grow them on wicks and do not water from saucers. Water from bottom only - is an old wives tale. They need to be flushed from the top sometimes to get rid of salts.

3. You cannot have them gorgeous all the time. The winners keep them disbudded all the time - let them bloom for the show - and disbud next day. But you can have them very very nice. Rob's violets are bred to be symmetrical -and quite floriferous - just do not crowd them, repot on time and love them.

Enjoy your indoor garden.

Irina

Tmac:

I grow to show.. how many of the individuals get their plants to the size and display, they start 18- 20 months before a show.. the plants never blooms, never suckers.. not until just months before a show.. all energy goes into the production of the leaves.. it is not until toward the end that the blooms are important. The fertilizer is rotated every month. 20-20-20, 1-1-6, etc.. then about 3 months before a show, we sock it with 12-50-14.. the middle number must be higher that the rest and the light is increased 1 hour each month. This will make the plant develop blooms. The plant is disbudded until about 2 months before the show.. depends if it is variegated or non-variegated. Irina is right with the book "Grow to Show".. that is considered the Bible of showing plants.

But you do not have to do this to have beautiful blooming plants.. I have blooming plants all the time with just the minimal care. Violets want to bloom, produce suckers..

Just enjoy the plants you have and do not sweat trying to produce a show stopper!! Your violets will bring you lots of enjoyment with so little care.

If you are interested in possibly showing, join a local club, they can guide you every month as to what needs to be done prior to the show. And it is fun to experience what others are doing with their plants too!!

Think positive.. Russel at times like to take the negative road.. but there is a lot to be said of the opposite!!

Good Luck
Tea

I've had some that take care of themselves that I can't screw up and others that never are perfect. It sounds like you have the basics down, don't worry be happy. One thing i've noticed if I fertilize every watering I get tight centers. I fert every 2 or 3 waterings. Also let pots go dry for a day or 2 between waterings, the roots look better. Sometimes the growers state easy to grow, doesn't sucker or always in bloom in descriptions. Ask them when you buy if you mail order.

Yes. Give them what they want/need, and they will flourish.

Hi Tmac,

Holkamp, (optimara, rhapsodie, everfloris) and Anthoflores violets are the ones that you frequently can get at walmart and other discount stores. They are frequently unlabled because they are mass produced, they are grown in culture that "grows them up fast", but also doesn't produce a healthy plant. When one buys one of these, they usually die, and that's actually what the manufacturer wants, because they want you to buy more, try again...

If you really want one of these because it's so appealing to you, I suggest you put down some leaves after buying it.

Other vendors, aren't really much more responsible. Rob's Violets is one that is particularly under my skin. He and his wife hybridize beatiful AV's, but that's not always what they sell, especially over the internet or mail order.

I have two "Rob's Dust Storm's" at the moment. One I bought from violetbarn 5 yrs ago. It is stunning, solid purple double blooms, it is always in bloom making circles around green pointed foliage...the other I bought on eBay, it is also stunning, pink with purple fantasy? I'm not sure why Rob sold me the "noid"!...it's actually a nicer plant than the "real" Rob's Dust Storm, but for sure he didn't sell me what I ordered!

Last year, around this time, I ordered a bunch from Rob, after about a week, the crowns turned dusty grey, and I lost them all. Thankfully none of my other 97 plants caught the disease, which leads me to believe, the problem came with Rob's plants and left with Rob's plants.

I like Irina, it's OK if she thinks I'm being negative, but I don't think I am, at least I'm honest, if others judge me as negative??? If she's a violet seller, I may just buy from her after I get to know her better, but rob's is heading the way of holtkamp & anthoflores, thumbs down! It's aok with me when a grower sends me a NOID, but an AVSA commercial? ...no way!, not to mention the plants that went grey last year.

I think there are many plants that you will be able to grow to match the photos...just be careful who you buy from. Follow good cultural guidlines about how to grow AV's and you will do fine. You will also save many doomed plants, doomed because they were purchased from unethical sources, and you will also learn on your own, who not to buy from.

I didn't mean to scare you with my rantings, I only meant to warn you.

Russell

Some AVs are a weak variety, some individual plants are just weak plants. Although hard to do, you save yourself tons of time and effort by destroying those plants and moving on. Once you find a tough plant, you can groom it to be what you want. Another couple of tips I have learned over the years--the environment outside the plant tray does affect them. I lived in another area where there was higher natural humidity and they loved it. They were healthier and bloomed more than they ever had before. I also lived in a very dry area of the state, where they hated it. Another consideration is the amount of natural light available in addition to the bulbs. They may be getting more or less light than you think. Also, the water you are using may have tons of minerals. All of these "environmental" elements do have an effect that you may not be aware of. Good luck with your collection.

Carla

Tmac, you are doing everything right, including hanging out here. I've learned *so* much from the kind and experienced people here; the only things you may need to work on are the 'P' word (patience), and Our Lady of AVs' "Growing to Show", available from the AVSA.

Good luck and keep on keeping on.

Korina

Thanks so much for the advice and encouragement! I will continue reading up to learn as much as I can about AVs. I'll contine to try different varieties and to tweek my environment until I get it right! It will be a fun adventure! :-)

Russel -

I do not sell. I give away - and we are all prone to bugs, deseases and the rest.

I had luck with Rob so far. I think his R. Dust Storm should be fantasy though. Mine is very beatiful - but it is not from him - but I just looked at the pics on internet - and mine are way too pale pink with blue fantasy - so - darn - sport again. And his R. Argyle Socks had beautiful crown variegation - but it didn't show fantasy, was just blue - again - but I got it not from him.
I bought leaves - and you can always get some sports - or all sports - just try to reproduce Playful Spectrum from leaves...

I do not know if Rob waits for his starters to bloom to check if they are true or not. I know that e-bay sellers do not - if you wait for plants to bloom - they are way too big to ship.

I think that the weedy Everfloris are checked - and they charge for it since these guys are prone to sport like nothing else.

I am really interested to know what was it - this grey leaves disaster? What do you think? I got a couple of loosers from Fredericks - together with a bunch of very good streps. But it was when they basically were going out of business and selling out. It looked like some kind of shock - they came OK - but turned grey and went into decline in a hurry - may be got chilled on the way? (It was worse than Roundup, I swear)

My club buddy sells on e-bay - and God - she grows them so well - but she says her buyers know that the starter didn't bloom yet so - if it will sport - sorry. Her stock plants bloom true and she always has her own stock plant photos displayed.

So far I do not have enough time to be as dedicated as this lady for the quality and reputation and whatnot. I work full time and some more - so for me it is just for fun.

One day my company will send me out with a cardboard box because I am getting close to this age. Then I will spruce up my shelves - and send a sample shipment to Russel. If it will pass - I am ready to take over the world.

Cheers

Irina

Holkamp, (optimara, rhapsodie, everfloris) and Anthoflores violets are the ones that you frequently can get at walmart and other discount stores. They are frequently unlabled because they are mass produced, they are grown in culture that "grows them up fast", but also doesn't produce a healthy plant. When one buys one of these, they usually die, and that's actually what the manufacturer wants, because they want you to buy more, try again...

I'm running an experiment with Wal-Mart plants right now. I've bought 18 and killed one in a terribly stupid watering accident. Of the 17 others, 15 were rescues (purchased specifically because they were in advanced stages of rotting in the store). Twelve of the rescues are alive and doing very well. The rot is gone and all have sturdy new growth. Several have multiple pups starting. With this experience I expect Wal-Mart plants to live to thrive and flower.

There may be other reasons you don't want to own Wal-Mart plants, but low survival rates should not be one of them.
In fact it is my opinion that Wal-Mart is a great place to try out the African violet hobby with an expectation of at least modest success but without a large investment. After you get the bug from the cheap plants, learn how to water them, maybe buy a book or join a club; then you can take your hobby to higher levels with "named" plants, grow lights, plant stands, etc.

I can mass produce plants in a fast growing medium and still have time left to put labels on them. I think the reason WM plants are NOID is because the grower has been asked to cut their wholesale prices year after year. You can cut and cut and eventually the ID tag has to go. This season they cut out the external pot bottom-watering feature and the grower's identification sticker.

You are right. Most of us went through the Walmart stage.

The sad thing about their plants - that you understanding requirements of AVs - can keep them growing even in a sludge they are planted. An average person buys one, brings it home and successfully kills it. Just like 99.999% of poinsettias after Christmas. That's why AVs are rumored to be tough to grow. They are certainly not cast iron plants - but on the other side - they are quite easy if you know what they like.

The sludge they are potted in is so counterproductive to promoting of the violet culture - because the plants are dead before the person has a chance to learn anything.

The plants in Walmart are propagated by a meristem tissue culture. And like preemie babies they need more TLC to stabilze - instead of fast grow bloom rot cycle. And you are providing it.

And you are right - they are cutting costs on everything which not only prevents you to know the name - but is counterproductive for their survival rate beyond 3 weeks.

Do mass producers intentionally prepare the violets to die 3 weeks after purchase - doubtful. But there is a reason that the pantyhose you buy can only be worn for couple of days before they develop runs...

Irina

Hi Irina,

you get it, but Open your mind.
Quote:
"Do mass producers intentionally prepare the violets to die 3 weeks after purchase - doubtful."
Response:
Why shouldn't they? in fact it's more than likely that they do. Just give a walmart babie to one of your neighbors and see how long it lasts!

This has been a really iteresting discussion, and yes dchall, I can usually rescue a plant in any kind of shape too. Don't you think that healthy ones should be on the sales floor? Bless you for rescueing all of those Walmart half dead NOID's, but ...BIG but, I bet even the walmart staff thought you were nut's buying them.

Are you trying to prove that the plants are durable, or your growing skills are so honed that you can save anything and keep them alive?

Do you think the average walmart shopper has your unique know how? Do you think the average walmart shopper has the AV experience to know that those $25 everfloris violets are less than special, that they're inferior to most AV hybrids?

It's a big sad story about money friends. With all of the really good growers in the AVSA, most of the "old folks", look the other way when holtamp markets their plants in sludge, because holtkamp has given avsa so much money over the years, that they are excused from being responsible as an AV distributor as is the canadian holtamp clone anthoflores.

Before the 'sludge age' AV's were the #1 house plant, now in the 'sludge age', most people think they're difficult to grow, and they die. It's the same story with those cyclamens they are perpetually selling everywhere, pretty flowers, (but your home is too hot for them, when they die, buy more!)...but most of our homes aren't to hot for AV's. ??? (oh, we better start selling them in sludge!)

And AVSA is holding a 'learn about holtkamp' session in the 2006 Minneapolis convention (skip it folks, dchall said it all above! if you know how to grow AV's you can save them, their durable!)

Dchall, sometimes the joy of being able to grow a beatiful blooming plant easily encourages someone to become an enthusiast, ...that's how I became one. Those plants, that light sparks aren't purchased at walmart. ...and AVSA is still wondering why there membership is decreasing...duh!

:)(: [shaking my head]

Russell

Russell,

I do not think they intentionally put a mini land mine to kill AV in 3 weeks - because it will cost money too.

The reason for the sludge - is that it doesn't dry for long time - and half of the AVs in Walmat gets sold before they start looking too sad without watering. You put your super beautiful AVSA registered violets on Walmart table - and they will look like compost in 2 days if you do not water them.

I think the reason for such treatment is deeper in our culture. When AVSA just appeared - it was populated by people who survived Depression or were born around that time. The life principle was: want not, waste not - if I am correct in quoting. It was unthinkable to throw away a plant just because it stopped blooming. It was unthinkable to throw away dry bread - you should recycle it, make bread crumbs, stuffing, pudding, milk toast - you name it.

People of this era are almost all gone. Now life is much easier and much more wasteful. So we buy, play and trash goods in no time. Like kids - before they played together, had games, never got bored - now they stare with empty eyes into TV's and expect to be entertained without using their own creativity and muscles.

So - Russell - Walmart didn't corrupt AVSA and AVSA cannot stop anybody from growing violets in a sludge.

I heard in Europe they call this type of violets - bidermayer stile - not sure about spelling - it is a plant designed to be a centerpiece of a table for a week - and then be discarded. A great lot of people do not even guess that you can grow and rebloom them. For them they are like bunch of flowers you put in your vase.

You can take a rose stem from the spent rose and root it and plant in your garden using a zip bag, violet soil and a dusting of rootone. Does it sound crazy?

Cheers

Irina

This has been a really iteresting discussion, and yes dchall, I can usually rescue a plant in any kind of shape too. Don't you think that healthy ones should be on the sales floor?

I bought the rescues in November. I was extremely lucky to find them at a WM near the warm gulf coast. The really healthy ones were probably picked over by June and the rest were probably gone by September. These were really the dregs.

Bless you for rescueing all of those Walmart half dead NOID's, but ...BIG but, I bet even the walmart staff thought you were nut's buying them.

Umm, yes they did.

Are you trying to prove that the plants are durable, or your growing skills are so honed that you can save anything and keep them alive?

Plants in the condition I got them in are not at all durable. It was my superior knowledge of soil science that performed the successful rescue of 12 of them. (My knowledge is superior to the soil's knowledge) Actually like I said this is an experiment. I expect to learn something. I purchased two healthier plants at WM last May and June. I killed the June one in standing water. Oops! But the other one was standing in water, too, and I caught it before it rotted. It is alive and blooming today in the original soil. Actually it stopped blooming two weeks ago when what appears to be a seed pod formed on a flower, but I digress. The success I had with that one plant after 6 months prompted me to try the rescue project. I figure keeping one plant alive could be a fluke, but keeping 15 sick plants alive would not be. The point of the experiment is to take these sickies and see if I can recover them, nurse them back to a blooming condition, and sustain them in a blooming condition indefinitely in the original WM pot and soil. I don't want any stem rot or leaf spots to form, but I am not taking any of the care y'all do in keeping water off the leaves. They get fertilizer water splashed on them at every watering. In fact I think many of you would be absolutely grossed out to know how I care for them, so I am resisting the temptation to explain it. But they are doing well to survive this long. If the experiment bombs, I'll explain it and let y'all know what not to do. So far my regimen is working inasmuch as I have not lost more than 3 plants in 8 weeks. If the experiments works, that means I get flowers from them all while remaining in the same soil, I will also explain that, but I would prefer to explain it from a position of some credibility rather than as a newby crackpot (which many folks already think I am).

Do you think the average walmart shopper has your unique know how?

Not hardly. I am an organic grower and not even all organic growers have my unique knowledge. Even after I explain what I do, half the organic growers don't believe it. YOU USE WHAT TO FERTILIZE? Once I'm getting flowers I will explain the concept and the science behind it. There is nothing really mysterious but if your background is in chemistry, it will be mysterious. You will need to forget some chemistry and learn some microbiology.

The average WM shopper is the average person. That person may be an expert in some things but the things they are expert in, they probably do not shop at WM to buy (did that make sense?). I have a mentor who is trying an experiment with WM potting mix. He is in the soil amendment business and has been for 35 years. He used to try to compete with WM potting mixes but has since decided to test their mixes. He grows some plants in standard WM potting soil, identical plants in WM soil with his amendments, and identical plants in WM soil + his amendments + other amendments he is experimenting with. This concept goes along the lines of, "if you can't beat 'em, join 'em." Now he's promoting the use of WM potting soil, BUT now he has a small amendment package to make the WM soils act like his more expensive soils. This concept is the Genesis of my project.

Do you think the average walmart shopper has the AV experience to know that those $25 everfloris violets are less than special, that they're inferior to most AV hybrids?

This is probably much more to the point of this thread than anything I've already said. What makes one plant superior to another? In animals it is called 'conformation.' I know some plants are not considered 'conforming' if they have the wrong natural shape. What makes one African violet better than another?