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elkka_gw

HELP! I think I've killed my Pin Oak

16 years ago

I am actually near tears as I am writing this. I am lucky enough to have two majestic Pin Oaks on my property that shade a great portion of my yard. Last year I located a dog pen underneath one of them so that the dogs would be shaded. This spring I noticed that one of my beloved old girls is very thin in leaf, particularly on one side, with lots of bare twigs. I was in denial and kept telling myself that it's foliage is not finished filling out yet since its not summer but after doing research online I've learned that for all their might and size these trees are extremely sensitive to any disturbance to their roots.

The dog pen was created by laying landscaping fabric over the ground, fencing it off and then over filling with 6 inches of pea gravel. I've formulated a hasty plan of cordoning off half the pen and removing the gravel so I can aerate the soil and plant grass seed or lay sod but I honestly don't know if I can even save the tree at this point. If I could draw a diagram I'd say 50% of her root system is being affected by the gravel and the other 50% is outside of the dog pen.

I feel embarrassed to be human at this point, even when we mean well we cause damage to the environment.

Please if there is any advise that anyone could give me I would greatly appreciate it.

Comments (15)

  • 16 years ago

    ...still worrying about this, up at 4 in the morning because I can't sleep.

    I found an article about a university's efforts to save their 200 year old oak. They described the following process:

    "Using a tool called an air spade, workers shoot a compressed stream of air at the roots of the tree. The air stream loosens the soil surrounding the roots without damaging the roots, Picher said, fluffing up the soil to create a good environment for new root growth.

    Bartlett workers then inject the soil with nutrients, fertilizer and humus to further promote root growth.

    Bartlett workers also removed the sod from the root spread of the oak to reduce any competition for nutrients."

    Link to the article.

    I will give this a shot, I am also having an arborist come to the property to look at the situation and give me an opinion.

    I am still welcoming the input from any knowledgeable people on the forum.

    Thank you

  • 16 years ago

    Hate to break it to you...but if the tree is already showing such damage, chances are good that a significant portion of the root system has already died. It might be able to come back from what it has left... but I really wonder if there is much point in what you are attempting because I suspect the roots are already dead.

  • 16 years ago

    Some more good information on how to save this tree:

    "
    Damage to roots
    Damage to trees during construction usually involves impairment of the water and nutrient supply system. Therefore, three corrective procedures should be applied: thinning branches to reduce water requirements; irrigating as needed to maintain an adequate moisture supply, and applying fertilizer to help stimulate new root growth (avoid excessive nitrogen). Limited or no tilling should be done under damaged tree until they have had adequate time to recover.

    A moderate application of fertilizer may be beneficial. Use 2 pounds of 5-10-5 per inch of trunk diameter measured three feet above the ground. Excessive applications of nitrogen will promote new foliage growth that the tree can not support with its reduced root system. The easiest and most practical method of application is to broadcast the fertilizer over the area of greatest concentration of feeder roots. These are located in a band around the tree starting about two feet from the trunk and extending several feet beyond the ends of the branches. Scatter fertilizer evenly over this area, and apply water liberally to wash it into the ground.

    Keep the tree mulched and well watered during stress periods. Gradually prune and reshape the tree for balance and general appearance over a period of 3 to 5 years. Control devitalizing conditions such as sucker sprouts, insects, and diseases. "

    Link to source.

    With this information I'm feeling a little more confident that something can be done to recuperate this tree. I think I might be able to get some sleep tonight.

  • 16 years ago

    Elkka,

    By all means try to save it. Just don't break the bank and make sure it doesn't decline to the point its structurally unstable and a danger to yourself, the house, or the dogs.

    If you feel that bad order a dozen new ones from the state and plant them.

  • 16 years ago

    Thank you for the encouraging words Tornado. I know I could replace them with saplings but these trees are almost 100 years old if not over that, plopping in some saplings to replace this tree would be like putting a band-aid over a bullet wound to me.

    A thread like this is useless without pictures so I am posting two, perhaps this will allow people to tell me if the tree has a chance at survival.

    Picture one: The Canopy
    Notice how thin the tree is on its right side and in comparison to the second tree behind it on the left. This picture was taken through a screen window, so please excuse that obstruction in the photo.
    {{gwi:364260}}

    And

    Picture two: The Base
    Apparently I have placed the pen too close to the Root Zone and the weight of the gravel as well as landscaping cloth are smothering the roots. I was told that the landscaping cloth was the type that allowed the free movement of moisture into the soil and that the tree would be ok. As is obvious, this is not true.
    {{gwi:364261}}

  • 16 years ago

    That is a bummer for you and the tree. I think the likely killer is the amount of pea gravel you put on, not the landscape cloth. 6 inches is a lot.

    I have a large Pin Oak in the 50-60 year range that is growing next to an addition to the house that previous owners added 20 years ago. It appears they graded a lot of soil over at least 1/3 of the root zone and limbed it up to about 25 feet during the construction. I have pondered whether the construction had damaged the tree, and it does have some dead lower limbs, but the tree is huge (appears bigger than yours) and got a healthy reasonably round crown.

    I wonder why you would put 6 inches of pea gravel or any at all in the dog pen vs. just dirt or maybe wood chips?

    Perhaps the arborist can prune out some of the dead wood in the crown and improve the appearance.

  • 16 years ago

    I spent all morning shoveling back gravel and pealing out landscaping cloth (the dogs were more than happy to help with the landscaping cloth). I've cleared back about 8 feet of space around the inside of the pen. I hope this will be an adequate amount of Root Zone for the tree. Luckily its drip line is outside the pen's perimeter.

    The arborist will be by Wednesday to give me a diagnosis and his opinion about a solution.

    Terrene, yeah, it really is a bummer :-(
    The pea gravel was chosen to keep the dogs from becoming complete mud balls before they came in the house for the night. Wood chips I was told were a bad choice vs the gravel (but I can't remember why). If your trees are bigger than my trees maybe they're not as old as I think, perhaps they are even pretty young. I'll ask the arborist if he can age them for me when he visits.

  • 16 years ago

    From the picture, although it's kind of hard to tell, I would say about your tree is about 50 years old. Do you know what the DBH is? I just measured mine and it's about 20-22 inches. My other Pin oak in front is also about that age and size.

    My sister and her H used to have 4 Huskies (as well as 2 large mixed breeds). They all lived to a ripe old age and are gone now. They had a large fenced area for the dogs (and a pen with chainlink). I don't recall them using anything in the pen except some straw for bedding. Anyway, one time I was dog sitting her 6 dogs, 2 cats, and fish (talk about a handful), and one of the Huskies became ill. Not eating, etc. His condition worsened, so I rushed him to the emergency vet one evening. Turns out his bowel was obstructed because he ate a lot of wood chips! They had to give the dog an enema.

    I hope your tree can recover.

  • 16 years ago

    I agree with terrene, the tree in question looks more like 50, no where near 100.

    Also FYI, usually a tree's root system extends well beyond the outer reaches of the crown.

  • 15 years ago

    Just an update - the tree is officially dead. Every leaf is brown to orange. The arborist told me it wasn't necessarily my fault the tree died, because it would take more than a dog pen over its roots to kill it. He suspects that it was stressed previously by construction that took place around its base prior to me buying the property. I think he was trying to make me feel better about the situation.

    I've gotten a good quote for removal, $1700 to take down and leave wood on premises, $2000 to take down and remove + $125 to grind out the stump. He is willing to take $900 to get rid of the tree, letting me make a payments on the balance up to 6 months. I haven't had tree work of this size done before, but I think this is a decent price.

    I'm looking for a replacement tree that I can put in the bare spot. Something that will be big enough to provide shade in about 5 years. I appreciate any suggestions.

  • 15 years ago

    you better get at least 2 more estimates ...

    that is nearly double what i would pay up here ... though you space is rather confined.. complicating it all i suppose ... INSURE they have current insurance

    personally .. i dont buy that your small dog pen.. had any impact on this tree ... if i were to presume.. that the tree is twice as big under ground.. than above .... i would say that its feeder roots are three houses down the street each way .. and you little dog pad would be a minor inconvenience to a tree that size ...

    regardless.. get more quotes....

    ken

  • 15 years ago

    Ken, are you in the Northern part of Ohio? an you recommend anyone? I've had two people quote me around $2000. A cheaper price would be great!

  • 15 years ago

    Sucks but tree work is expensive. Also sucks you have lost the big fella.

    That isnt a terrible price given the space restrictions. If you find someone much cheaper check all their insurance!

    Out in the open spots of my yard i have rented lifts and removed trees. Always costs me several hundred bucks, a yard full of debris for a month, and a few favors back to two or three friends.

    Oh well. Silver lining if there is one is that you can plant something else there this fall.

  • 15 years ago

    Definitely get some more estimates.

    I had two very large popcorn (Chinese Tallow) trees and two shrubs cut down, hauled off and the stumps ground for $500.

  • 15 years ago

    Better Quote!

    I want to thank those who encouraged me to get more quotes. I've gone from $2000 to $1200. The last guy said he liked my log and since he has a mill he'd be willing to take $100 extra off, essentially buying the log from me. He also said he'd drop another $100 if I agreed to keep some of the limbs on my property and let him haul the log and the ground stump chips and some of the chipped limbs away. What do you all think? Of course he is fully licensed and bonded too.