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Results of epsom experiment and caution on corn meal

13 years ago

Here I post the result of Radio Times soaked 1 day in Epsom salt. Then I replaced the water with calcium citrate, and finally plain water. The color did deepen compared to the control in tap water.

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This confirms the experiment I did on William Shakespeare end of August. He was grunting with constipation and produced these tiny pellets of ugly purple. So I watered him with Epsom salts, and he diarrhea-ted into glorious crimson red (just like the pic. in Roses Unlimited). But his lilac-Old Rose scent disappeared.

Not only Radio Times stank up with Epsom salt in the vase, it got really soft and droopy (magnesium relaxes muscle, whereas calcium constricts). I changed its water to calcium citrate, and the petals are still stiff and firm after 4 days in a vase. The control one in plain water already dropped petals (vases are switched, epsom salt is on the right).

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Since my soil is alkaline I threw rotten tomatoes and stomp on them to acidify the soil. I dumped left-over Epsom salt water from my experiments on this spot. Today I found tons of tomato plants shot up at the same place. This is from the Orchid forum: "One study posted found adding Epsom salts does not make any difference in the size of flowers produced, but the use of Epsom salts brought seedlings to maturity and flowering faster than those which were not provided with magnesium sulfate".

Magnesium made my Radio Times limpy and droopy in a vase. My guess is that it softens the hard cover of the seed, making it easier for plants to sprout. Below is tomato plants growing where I dumped epsom salt. You can see the whitish left-over stuff, and a piece of limestone rock nearby.

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My neighbor was impressed by zero blackspots on my 10 Austins in partial shade. She was asking me questions about my corn meal experiment so I answer them here in case you wonder the same.

1) Why do we bother with corn meal dusting for black spots? Because spraying is more complicated, such as in the thread, "What to wear when you spray?": A tyvek disposable suit, cartridge respirator with face mask, hood, gloves. A four foot long wand ...I wear a long sleeve shirt, a hat, gloves, long pants, and either a bandana over my nose or a respirator. If I spray a miticide I also wear goggles and stick my head through a hole in a trash bag and wear that over my shirt."

The only caution I have for whole-grain corn meal is the birds love that stuff. You have to hold your breath while dusting, otherwise your nostril hairs turn all yellow. It's best to wear something subdued, like your black Ninja costume with a face mask. Try not to wear something gaudy like a bright red shirt, lest the humming birds get excited and mistake your yellowed nostrils for its nectar.

It takes at least 10 days before beneficial Trichoderma fungi to form colonies. Trichoderma attacks and destroys other non-beneficial fungi, such as blackspots. I was throwing corn meal over my shoulder at rose bushes, but I got more sophisticated and used a flour sifter from the kitchen.

You won't have the risk of Eyes Degeneration like chemical spray. However, when you dust with corn meal, keep your eyes on your toes at all times. Better yet, blindfold yourself. Never look up, since the birds dive down for corn meal, and they may gorge your eyes out, and you'll die a gruesome death. (I'm just kidding, to keep the folks employed at Bayer).

My neighbor asked me how I made corn meal stuck to the leaves. The answer: dust right after it rained. If you want to be anal-retentive, you can set your hair-blower to low setting and blow dry each leaf. My only complaint about corn meal is that while I dusted my roses, these morning doves couldn't wait. They sat next to me and drove me nuts with their clucking and heavy-breathing ... Happy Halloween - Hopefully I scared you enough.

Comments (17)

  • 13 years ago
    last modified: 10 years ago

    If it attracts rats, then what about, um, shall we say, rodents?

  • 13 years ago
    last modified: 10 years ago

    I made jokes on corn meal since people underestimate it. However, the birds like that stuff and it makes growing roses so much easier. Since the corn meal worked so well against black spots, I'm delighted to buy more roses next year.

    The rodents don't have a chance with the corn meal, since the birds ate all that stuff on the ground. People think that roses are fussy and need spraying - but that's not true. I spend more time sniffing roses and drooling over pics. posted online, than taking care of them. What made me waste time planting invasive perennials in the past was the misconception that roses need spraying. It is no longer true with corn meal's effectiveness against black spots. Now roses become the easiest perennials, after spring bulbs.

  • 13 years ago
    last modified: 10 years ago

    What concentrations of epsom salt and calcium citrate did you use - or preferably for easy use - the amounts used per volume of water. The % purity of your starting salts would also be important, if we wanted to use your method. Did you try the Calcium Citrate alone to confirm its effect and if so did it affect the fragrance? Thanks for sharing the information so that we can try it ourselves. Best, Nick

  • 13 years ago
    last modified: 10 years ago

    I still say it sounds a lot easier to plant disease-resistant roses and then you don't have to worry about spraying or about ruining the looks of your plants by dosing them with corn meal.

    Kate

  • 13 years ago
    last modified: 10 years ago

    Oh come on, ogroser, thanks for sharing? THANKS for sharing THAT?

    I take the strawberry person's final sentence literally, and have to consider the initial post here to be nothing more than a perverse, somewhat adolescent holiday joke. How else is one to explain grunting constipation, the disgorging of tiny pellets of ugly purple, glorious and (redundantly) crimson red diarrhea, stomped rotten tomatoes, nostril hairs turning yellow, eye-gorging birds making extractions from human noses, gruesome deaths, heavy-breathing morning (sic) doves, anal retention, etc, etc, etc.?

    I've no idea what relevance "whitish left-over stuff and limestone rock nearby" may hold, but I'm left to conclude that, in strawberry person's galaxy, the stuff AND the rock must signify an eerie prescience relative to humankind's manifold sins and wickedness, and the wages thereof.

    So, strawberry person, your stated hope has been realized: You have indeed scared us enough. Allow me, now, to instruct you (as you instructed us) to blindfold yourself, never look up, and keep your eyes ALWAYS on your toes (assuming you have some of those).

    P.S. Be reminded, one and all, that in the penultimate line of the introductory post, strawberry person was frank enough to confess to having been driven nuts by mourning doves (or, perhaps, by doves that appeared in the morning). Whatever . . . driven absolutely NUTS.

    Hmmm . . . Is there a conundrum incipient in the wish for a HAPPY Halloween? Just wondering . . .

  • 13 years ago
    last modified: 10 years ago

    Thank heavens I'm not alone today. I feel validated.

    All I can say is thank you, jax, for finally saying something.

    C'mon....nobody wants to say anything about this corn meal? I mean seriously, it's been weeks since we've had any blackspot pressure in Illinois, so I could throw lard at my shrubs and claim that it works.

    I can understand not wanting to get attacked here for disagreeing, but seriously....next thing we know, someone will be telling us that San Francisco is a horrible place to grow roses.

    Oh, wait........

  • 13 years ago
    last modified: 10 years ago

    Jaxondel and Flaurabunda, I'd far rather hear your facts to dispute Strawberryhill's claims, than read your attacks on her sense of humor.

  • 13 years ago
    last modified: 10 years ago

    I don't care about her sense of humor. That's a matter of taste.

    What exactly is her claim? That corn meal protects plants from black spots during weather where there's no blackspot pressure? What is that, anyway....blackspot? Cercorspora? Do we even know? She said she never had it anyway because horse manure's potassium prevents it.

    That the average temperature in Chicago is -30?
    Someone else already posted the correction to that statement in another thread.

    That plants are constipated? Well, I you got me on that one. I don't regularly check for healthy rose stools in my garden. ZING!!

    That magnesium softens hard seed covers which is why her Radio Times went droopy in a vase? I can't even begin on that one.....

    Eyes Degeneration?

    Planting roses in the shade?

    You're right Mike. That's all it is......funny.

  • 13 years ago
    last modified: 10 years ago

    Hello Mike Rivers -- Well, personally, I'd far rather hear whatever facts you have at hand to validate/sustantiate/corroborate Strawberry's claims (did Strawberry make any claims?).

    When you come back here to do that, might it be possible for you to do so without resorting (as Strawberry did) to such heavy reliance on the scatological? Please . . .

    So you use cornmeal on your roses, Mike Rivers? I thought that was a canard that had been put to rest. Guess not. I (and probably Flaurabunda) await your elaboration on its benefit in the rose garden. BTW: White or yellow?

  • 13 years ago
    last modified: 10 years ago

    I have very little faith that cornmeal does anything to protect roses from blackspot, though I'm basing this on personal opinion, not scientific research. I suspect Miracid to have more chance of actually working than a dusting of cornmeal. (Anyone else been here long enough to remember that thread back in the 90's?)

    But come on, folks, the post was clever and amusing. It made me smile. Lighten up a bit, please! We're all friends here.

    Rosefolly

  • 13 years ago
    last modified: 10 years ago

    I remember reading that using Miracid as a foliar feed/spray can be effective against black spot. I would imagine you'd have to do it regularly like any spray program?

    If you have any plants that tend to get chlorosis, it would certainly make them happy.

  • 13 years ago
    last modified: 10 years ago

    I remember Miracide craze :) I even tried it myselt at that time.
    Olga

  • 13 years ago
    last modified: 10 years ago

    Yeah, people were talking about Miracid on the Roses Forum sometime in the later 90s. Then some ag experiment station did a trial of Miracid and found that it had no effect on blackspot whatsoever. Probably the original finding resulted from extreme heat in the St. Louis summer suppressing black spot coincidentally with the guy spraying Miracid. That's why we shouldn't draw firm conclusions from a few observations without a proper control group.

  • 13 years ago
    last modified: 10 years ago

    My point exactly.

    Back in the mid-90's when that post appeared here, I tried Miracid on the only rose in my garden that had BS. It promptly defoliated and grew back with all healthy leaves, proving nothing at all.

    There's no proof on this one either, just something someone is trying out and reporting to us. But that is no reason to jump all over the poster and make fun of his/her humor. Who among us has not had the curiosity to try things out?

    Sheesh, folks! Take a deep breath and relax. We do this for fun.

    Rosefolly

  • 13 years ago
    last modified: 10 years ago

    I guess I could have made my point more politely.

    Anyhow, I remember the original Miracid post and as I recall, it eventually was revealed that the author had been spraying a commercial fungicide for blackspot, with less than satisfactory results. He then sprayed the same roses with Miracid and observed much better control. He initially reported only the Miracid spray and he attributed his success entirely to it. As I recall, there has been at least one report that urea - the major component of Miracid- has a synergistic effect with some plant pesticides, perhaps by enhancing the uptake of the pesticide by the plant.

  • 13 years ago
    last modified: 10 years ago

    Mike, thanks for clarifying that point. I always wondered if there was something going on. So many people reported good results, and so many others became so angry about it.

    As I recall, it just about tore the Roses Forum apart. People were so heated! I must apologize if in my turn I was not as tactful as I should have been.

    I value this forum and its members highly, even If I don't agree always agree with everything posted. I have learned so much over the years from the discussions here.

    Rosefolly

  • 13 years ago
    last modified: 10 years ago

    For discussion and analysis of corn gluten meal and epsom salts as gardening aids...

    Here is a link that might be useful: Linda Chalker-Scott