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Healthy Modern Roses For The Mid-Atlantic?

18 years ago

I'm always, always searching for relatively healthy roses for my area. I know Knockout and it's kin are rather good but I see them EVERYWHERE. I aready have Darlows Enigma, which has been slow to establish.I also just got a cutting of Carefree Beauty, so we'll see how she does.

I've generally kept to old garden roses since many of the gallicas and other nonremonants are rather healthy, but being open to experiment and being a lover of kitchsy and retro things, I would love to know if there are any modern roses are relatively carefree in the Mid-Atlantic area and could possibly be grown no-spray. I am very ignorant of blackspot- as long as it bounces back from things I'm rather happy, even if that means a rose with only two flushes. I've heard mixed things about Buck roses.

Any ideas?

Thanks,

Max

Comments (27)

  • 18 years ago

    Country Dancer (a Buck rose, as are Earth Song & Prairie Harvest), recommended not also by erasmus 7a NC, but also the Pennsylvania Horticultural Society. Here's what they say about Country Dancer (as one of the 5 great roses for the Philadelphia area-great roses for zones 5-7):

    'Country Dancer', a nearly indestructible shrub rose with deep pink blossoms. Very disease and pest resistant.

    Illusion & Quadra are also recommendations of the Longwood Gardens testing program.

    Olga knows of what she speaks-upon her recommendation I'm getting Earth Song, The McCartney Rose, Aloha and Perle d'Or (among otheres) in the Spring.

  • 18 years ago

    In general, I have hardiness issues with modern roses that are at least as bad as the disease problems. So this is a weird list of what I've done well with. Seafoam has been a very good landscaping rose. Given your tolerance of blackspot, you would probably be happy with Lilian Austin, which has been the best of the 'normal' Austins for me. The best all around Austin by far has been Robbie Burns, a once blooming spinossisima hybrid that seems to currently be out of commerce. Along those same lines is James Mason, a gallica hybridized by Peter Beales that is still young, but seems to share the good points of its class. It may be a Sequoia exclusive, so if you have any interest and they still have it, jump now. Karl Forster, the rose, is an older Kordes spinossisima hybrid. While it has a reputation as a questionable repeater, it gave a quite respectible second flush for me next year. We'll see if that was just a good year for it, or if it likes it here. It may very well be the hardiest Kordes repeat bloomer out there. Lafter is another rose you can grow to confound the masses. It's a New Dawn grandchild, and Brownell introduced it as a hybrid tea. It may be a bit healthier than Lilian Austin, so it isn't bulletproof, but it seems to be growable. It doesn't look like a HT, or grow like an HT, but that's what it is. Another HT you might look at is Traviata. I don't grow it any more since it had serious, serious hardiness issues, but it was quite healthy, though scentless.

    Buck roses for me tend to either have hardiness issues or disease issues. At this point I only have two in the ground, besides Applejack which is a relatively different creature. Prairie Harvest is by far the healthiest. However, here it is unquestionably a pot plant that will never again see the ground. Earth Song is a decent combination of disease resistance and hardiness, and is one of my fairly standard recommendations for people looking for a HT like rose. Country Dancer isn't as disease resistant, and has never gotten more than 2 ft tall here. Stephen Scanniello lists it as a climber, so it apparently can get much, much bigger without winterkill.

    Then there are what I tend to think of as the 1930's species roses. While of course much older, they didn't get into commerce until the 20th century, and were heavily used in 'wild' gardens between the wars.

  • 18 years ago

    Some Austins are more resistant than others, and if you can tolerate some BS and just care about how they bounce back and overwinter when not sprayed all the better, most will rebloom abundantly: Hertage, Rose Marie, Crocus Rose, Prospero, William Shakespeare 2000, Sharifa Asma, The Generous Gardener, and Constance Spry (warning: big climber and no repeat).

    Buck roses: Quietness is my favorite and is trouble-free and beautiful. Hawkeye Belle is good for disease resistance and hardiness but many flushes get spoiled by botrytis and blooms don't always open.

    Hybrid Musks: You've already got Darlow's, but you could also try Ballerina which is not nearly as resistant to BS, but stays nice and compact and bushy (Darlow's tends to get huge once it gets established and become a monster).

    Polyantha Marie Pavie performs even better than Perle d'Or in my garden. The Gift is similar to Darlow's Enigma and is another good one to try.

  • 18 years ago

    Olga has Perle d'Or over Marie Pavie, Lori Elf vice versa.

    One person & a number of organizations rates Country Dancer highly, another doesn't.

    You could dry yourself nuts over everyone else's recommendations - seems its best to find out what grows well around you, and make sure the soil, sun, etc. are optimal for the plant.

    Now, for me to take my own advice.........

  • 18 years ago

    I actually agree with Lori,that Marie Pavie is good, if you are comfortable with ~ 50 % leaf loss. The same with Perle d'Or. Lori and me are prctically next door, less then a mile away, so our microclimates are very similar.
    The only difference is that I have mostly sun and she gardens with more shade. I also supplement more water during summer.
    Olga

  • 18 years ago

    The following have been disease-free for me near Lancaster, PA. Gabrielle Privot (dark pink polyantha, has at least a few flowers all summer if you keep her watered), Theresa Bugnet (non-thorny hybrid rugosa), Sarah Van Fleet (non-suckering but very thorny rugosa).

    Lois in PA

  • 18 years ago

    I would give a try to the new Kordes roses that were bread for disease resistance as the first priority. (In Germany fungicide use is not allowed in private gardens any more, so worth checking these new varieties that were bred to 'behave' in this new situation. If you prefer grafted, try Palatine roses, if you prefer own root, check Ashdown roses.
    Surprisingly, most of these new Kordes roses also have pleasant fragrance. Some of the Vigorosas or Circus series might give you a few kitschy shrubs.

    Of the Asutins I find Prospero, Christopher Marlowe quite good (CM was resistant to bs but got cercospora in late fall) and Jubilee Celebration that performed surprisingly well (but, after one season, I should be more cautious as to fully recommend it)

    I know from Olga that MD has extremely serious blackspot issues, so worth checking with her or Lori how Compassion behaves there. For me it is a fantastic, very fragrant rose with great, clean foliage.

    Not so modern but repeat blooming roses, alas, none of them kitschy:
    Some of the Hybrid Musks are hopefully good in your area, too. MY favorite is Prosperity and the second best in my zone is Buff Beauty.

    If you garden south of Olga you may want to give a try to Crepuscule.

    Good luck.

  • 18 years ago

    Lion's rose (one of the Kordes roses noted by Ceterum)- ADR Award, helpmefind indicates is very resistant to blackspot & mildew. Also appears to have at least moderate fragrance.

  • 18 years ago

    In my garden in Southern Lancaster County near the MD border, my favorites for blackspot free and near blackspot free are: Marie Pavie (very good and much larger than growers suggest), Pearl d'Or (vg), Bonica (exc), Sally Holmes (vg), Charles Aznavour (vg), Julia Child (exc), Claire Renassiance (exc), Pink Gruss an Aachen (vg), Hot Cocoa (exc), Artistry (exc), Love & Peace (exc), Forgotten Dreams (exc), Blanc Double de Coupert (vg), Wild Spice (exc), Thresa Bougnet (vg), Rosa Eglanteria (vg), Queen of the Pairies (Supurb - no blackspot, powdery mildew and extremely excellent overwinter), Henry Fonda (exc), Double Delight (vg), Lavaglut (vg), Hot & Spicy (vg).

    These are just the ones I can think of off the top of my head. I have a tendency to keep the more resistant roses and lose the ones that are a handful to care for. I do spray but not regularly. If I remember and get out there before it gets to hot then I spray.

    I will have to check into Gabrielle Privot since I do love the polys so much.

  • 18 years ago

    When I asked Rene Schmitz at Palatine which low growing white shrub he would recommend for me he said without hesitation: the Lion's rose. So I have it now, we will see how well it behaves next summer. I am sure that Rene recommended the best he could think of I am just doubtful about its compactness in zone 8.

    -----

    Marie Pavie in my microclimate is much more bs prone than Perle d'Or. Of the Polyanthas Clotilde Soupert has no blackspot, has dream-like blooms in hundreds with delicious fragrance; alas, she is very powdery mildew and botrytis prone. Powdery mildew can be easily prevented by spraying the bush, stems, buds with Wilt-pruf in fall before the weather presents conditions favorable to PM and WP treatment last quite long. Botrytis cinera can be treated with some kind of calcium spray (search for botrytis and calcium threads by MichaelG). None of these are 'fungicides' so organic gardeners can also use these materials.

    A very loud but fragrant yellow HT that is surprisingly blackspot free is Midas Touch.

    More disease free HTs: Irish Hope, Leonardo (not always - cercospora in fall; in addition Leonardo is like an Austin octopus I train it on a tutor), Tchaikovsky, Traviata and as someone from Maryland (!!!) reported Erotika is healthy and gorgeous (its fragrance is to die for but my Hortico clone is a very weak, duh.
    BuckÂs Folksinger needed no spray during its entire year here and was constantly in bloom. I love that rose.

    Darn, I couldnÂt come up with any kitschy rose this time either. :-((

    Maybe Hot Cocoa? No, it is also better than I expected though didn't excell in growing a lot in extreme drought.

  • 18 years ago

    It's nice to hear about the fragrance on Erotica; that's a question I've had for awhile. I'll be getting one in the Spring, from The Appalachian Rose (in Tennessee, by the North Carolina border).

    Apparently Hortico (though they have a large selection) doesn't specialize in own-root roses?

  • 18 years ago

    Geo, Appalachian rose is not exactly at the NC border but it seemed to me somewhere in mid-Tennessee.

    If you plan a trip there do ask instructions from Ron! We made the mistake downloading driving instructions from Mapblast or Mapquest and sure enough got lost for hours. We were on the way on a national holiday and we could not find even a gas station where we could phone him. It took a good while till we saw someone with a cell phone somewhere along the road. After getting Ron's instructions we found his house & nursery in no time.

  • 18 years ago

    Middle of eastern portion of TN, but I stand by it being near the NC border; see the map of their site. Also, as per email discussion I had with their owner.

  • 18 years ago

    I am sure you are right, Geo. Probably it seemed far away because we got lost. We started our little excursion from Asheville; we left Asheville in mid morning and the weather was chilly. At Ron's place it was sunny and hot. We hoped to visit Ann on the way back but it was too late for that. I will never forget his Cl. Cecile Brunner and the row of Dr. van Fleet. C.B was so enormous it was just incredible - I would need another piece of property to grow that rose alone; the Dr. van Fleets were spectacular.

    We really enjoyed our visit and chat with Ron. I wish we could visit his place more often.

  • 18 years ago

    In my garden, no spray BS free roses are:
    Knock Out (shrub)
    Carefree Beauty (shrub)
    Carefree Wonder (shrub)
    Laguna (climber)
    Warm Wishes /Sunset Celebrations (HT)
    Fire Meidiland (groundcover)
    Toscana Vigorosa (groundcover)
    Golden Zest (shrub)- but it was the first year in my garden.

  • 18 years ago

    Oh wow, even more things to consider. Thank you all, great suggestions, how incredibly tempting. My parents are going to eventually kick me out if I keep buying and planting I swear it. Just watch, this summer I'm totally going to be living in a box, lol.

    Olga, which Aloha, the 1949 climber, Kordes HT, or McGredy HT?

    ceterum, I actually do have Crepuscule and it's wonderful, very resistant. It has a nice feel to the leaves. Probably as it stands it's my favorite rose. It unfortunately might be too cold here for it. I'm hoping it will keep it's canes overwinter, and this somewhat warm spell is not helping my worries.

    I was wondering, can anybody report how Tropicana does around here or does it have hardiness/severe BS problems? I hear it's a monster of a hybrid tea and that color screams atomic age kitsch.

  • 18 years ago

    Hi Max,

    I have Tropicana in my no-spray Northern Virginia garden and is has never had the first sign of blackspot. I would agree that it is a monster of a HT, it can be a bloom machine. It did not get any supplemental water during last summer's drought and it did not do nearly as well as in previous years.

    {{gwi:349392}}
    Kathy

  • 18 years ago

    Thanks Kathy, thats good to hear! I might now have to give it a try. I love it's color.

  • 18 years ago

    If you like vibrant color, you might also take a look at Maria Stern, Lafter, and All That Jazz. All very vigorous and fairly resistant. Golden Celebration, Hot Cocoa, Playboy and Lavaglut have all shown good resistance here in humid coastal VA/NC. Buck's Quietness is perfectly clean and a great big bushy plant that blooms & blooms. Also Buck's Distant Drums. And Harkness shrubby floribunda Escapade. I think next year Viru's Coffee Country will be on my list too.

  • 18 years ago

    Both Tropicana and All That Jazz were 100% leafless from mid Jun on in my Garden when I tried to grow these roses no spray. As well as Golden Celebration, Distant Drums and Playboy. Playbod was actually slightly better then others, probably kept 20% of its leaves.
    Olga

  • 18 years ago

    That's disappointing to hear Olga. Shame, I would have liked to try it.

  • 18 years ago

    Olga, if our rainfall returns to normal next year it may be a different story. I've replanted many roses that were resistant for me in north Texas where humiditywas lower and rainfall much less. What the two areas have in common is that they are very WINDY-- which may be why I am having such success with no-spray. Bigger dud this year? Morning Has Broken (Clements shrub bred from Graham Thomas). 10 feet away, Golden Celebration completely clean. Go figure!

  • 18 years ago

    In my garden I have a wonderful Poly, Anne Marie de Montravel. It is a small poly but in 4 years hasn't had blackspot. For it's size, it appears to be one of the strongest roses I have. The blooms are pure white with yellow stamens with just a whiff of Lilies-of-the-Valley and are so very small. The plant reminds me a lot of the rose Popcorn but nicer.
    {{gwi:216562}}

  • 18 years ago

    Has anybody tried growing Pretty Lady in the Mid-Atlantic?
    I just wonder if she can stay BS free with no spray in our area?

  • 18 years ago

    I once grew TROPICANA in a coastal Virginia garden and cannot imagine doing so without the assistance of fungicides. Olga is right. No spray = 100% defoliation by mid June.

    I'm having good results with the following cultivars in my mother's no spray, zone 7b coastal Virginia garden:

    Cramoisi Superieur (China) - good BS resistance but watch out for powdery mildew
    Duchesse de Brabant (Tea) - so far nie bulletproof
    Belinda's Dream (Shrub) - same as DdB. Gorgous flowers.
    Madame Joseph Schwartz (Tea) - same as DdB

    Moore's Striped Rugosa is turning out to be a disappointment. Not nearly as resistant as previously thought and being a hybrid rugosa, I can't spray it. Frustrating.

    Too early to tell for Marie d'Orleans (Tea).

  • 18 years ago

    Tropicana (I grew the climbing version)was one of the absolutely worst roses I ever met. It was able to have blackspot and mildew at the same time, even when I stripped off all its leaves in a very cold winter. It was also the very first rose we ever shovel pruned in a time when we had a hard time to kill anything that showed any sign of life.

    Belinda's Dream is more or less clean of blackspot but very prone to botrytis in my coastal garden.

    I am surprised to hear that Distant Drums is bs free or no spray. Devoted Buck collectors keep warning us that DD is one of the Bucks that is very bs prone and defoliates if not sprayed.

    It's true that Ann Harkness has better than average disease resistance.

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