Hi ZZ..
Where in AZ are you? 110 almost sounds like Phoenix..;) I'm in Tucson. Judging rain is tricky...They say with cactus and succulents, when i doubt, dont.:)

This time of year, I usually wait till the end of the day, and if they really need it, water light in the morning. You need to consider, that in the ground, it is not going to drain as well as containers.

First, I can tell you, Ive read tons here at GW that suggest the moisture meters are not that reliable. ;(

What kind of plants are you growing? I have tons of cactus and succulents in containers, and am only watering once a week if even that. It's been about 106 here and they are all doing just fine.

In ground is going to hold more moisture than my containers, and it sounds to me you may be watering too much.

Can you post pics of what you have growing?

JoJo

I'm in Mesa - a skosh warmer than Tucson, I believe.

I did read something about iffy water meters in the C&S forum yesterday - I just need a crutch because I don't trust myself to leave the plants alone and allow them to dry out before watering! the meter forces me to walk away from them unless it says "completely dry!"

Here's my newest acquisition - a nice euphorbia resinifera, my birthday present to myself:
{{gwi:406293}}From C&S collection

Then I have this E. Mamillaris (I also have a non-variegated):
{{gwi:406294}}From C&S collection

then I've got a couple of small agaves, small aloes, it's really brand new so I have a hodge-podge right now (and I can't post more pics 'cuz I'm at work). I have such a rabbit and ground squirrel issue I'm probably going to go all euphorb and aloe!! :-)

I watered well this morning, so I guess I'll just leave them alone for at least 4 days - regardless of what my inaccurate water meter says? They get full shade from noon onward, so my concern is more with the heat, not sun.

Just received two new succ books so I'm trying to educate myself as much as I can to avoid freaking out during the summer and to avoid asking so many noob questions!!!

When you say you water "if they really need it" what do you mean? In other words, how do YOU tell if your platns REALLY need it? Is it a matter of wrinkly leaves? Color change? Or do you guage based on the weight of the pot?

thanks!

Great pics! I love Euphorbia mammilaris too. I've not tried E. resinifera, although I do have a LOT of euphorbias too (very anti-rabbit as you mentioned). Happy Birthday by the way. :)

I pretty much follow JoJo's regime. I water most of my cacti and succulents once a week in summer whether they're in the ground or in pots, and it's good to emphasize what JoJo said that plants in the ground will stay more moist than those in pots.

Your plan of reading up on the specific plants is good. It's always good to find out if a cacti or succulent is a winter or a summer grower. Winter growers like most Aeoniums and some others like, say, Aloe variegata (partridge breast aloe) are winter growers so enter semi-dormancy in the heat of summer and will easily rot if given too much water in summer (though you can water them several times a week in active winter growth and they'll thank you for it). I always keep a close eye on Crassulas and their relatives in summer as they have CAM which means they generally keep their pores/stomata closed during the day to avoid excessive water loss, however they have a backup threshold of also keeping the pores closed above certain temperatures at night in order to save water, but in Phoenix especially some of our summer nights are above that threshold so the poor things hold their breath day and night and eventually croak.

As an example, I grow jades either indoors year round, or outdoors autumn through spring but then bring them inside in summer. Same for Christmas cacti and most echeverias which often melt in our summers (though not all do).

I have a five foot tall Aloe 'Hercules' and he wants water once a week or so autumn through spring, but not a drop from the hose all summer long. It almost kills me to not water for those long hot months, but he thanks me by staying alive and growing quickly during the cool months, when my friends or corporate landscapes water them in summer and they rot fast (and I killed a ton of partridge aloes before I toughened up and stopped watering them in summer, LOL).

Anyway, succulents and cacti are fun aren't they? Their biggest enemy if overwatering at any time of year so like you've both said, when it doubt, don't water.

Keep us posted! What books did you get?
Take care,
Grant

Listen to Grant!

He grows all kinds of good things.

Hi ZZ,
I try and water every 7-10 days if the plant is active. As Grant pointed out, it is important to learn when they are dormant.

In time you will learn what each plant needs.

Aloe, the tips will turn brown, some plants will shrivel, and some wilt. It really varries.. You will learn to relax and that these plants can really take some neglect.

Grant~ Thank you very much for your kind words! I've read many of your posts, and as lazygardens points out, you are one we can all learn from!

I too had problems with my partridge aloe. It now gets a tiny sip about every two weeks, and is doing pretty good. :)

ZZ, Happy belated B-day! :)Thats a nice present to yourself!

Best Wishes!
JoJo

thank you all for the great info (and the happy b-day wishes!) The C&S forum is very helpful, but we are certainly a special case here in AZ so you guys have really reassured me.

Grant, you mentioned echs wilting out here - I bought this beautiful, fat-leaved echeveria and set his little pot on the east side of the house to see how he did. I came home and he had literally turned to brown pudding!!! Lesson learned!

I'm thinking about adding some partridge aloe to my rock garden and am glad to have the info about not watering them - they're a perfect size for my little garden and I'd hate to kill them off.

I broke down and bought Debra Baldwin's "Designing with Succulents" and "Hardy Succulents" by Gwen Kelaidis.

The Baldwin book is gorgeous and really helpful in terms of giving me ideas for planning my future plantings. Also lots of good culture and propagation info in it.

The Kelaidis book is aimed more for gardeners in cooler climates (like, everywhere else but AZ) but does have great photos and, similarly, good design and cultivation info.

JoJo, I solemnly swear that I won't water more frequently than once a week! Hopefully if I have overwatered, a period of dryness in this heat will reverse any bad effects. I'll just have to buy some little 2 and 4-inch plants that I can re-pot and fiddle with to keep myself occupied while I'm not watering LOL!

And I'm definitely getting more euphorbs - maybe I'll make an anti-bunny fence of E. mammilaris!

Hi all,

Yes, growing succulents and cacti (okay, anything!) in the warm winter parts of AZ is definitely different from most other climates. Thanks for the kind words on my posts by the way, I swear, after I sent that first reply I thought "what a blowhard you sound like!", LOL. And it's a two way street for sure, I learn something from everyone who posts on this forum every time I log in (which is as often as I can, LOL).

I've only seen one echeveria survive year round easily in Phoenix and that's E. pallida. Okay, I just stopped mid-typing and ran outside and took pics of my Echeverias just for fun. I didn't stage anything so they're quick and dirty (so to speak). This is the only type I've seen survive long term in Phoenix. I got them from a friend in Tucson who grew it in her front walkway for years. It was a tiny single rosette when I started it but it's made slow steady progress since then. Two pics show the plants in terracotta pots and one shows one in the ground along the east side of my house. Pics are below (and at the link at the bottom in case these embedded ones are duds).

Echeveria pallida, June 2010, originally as a single small cutting from Tucson, October 2007

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{{gwi:406296}}

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Thanks for the information on your books. I've got that Designing With Succulents #1 and #2 as well. They are great for design ideas, though you can absolutely tell that most of the pics are not from Phoenix, Tucson, or Palm Springs, LOL. I'm sure you're already familiar with it, but Desert Tropicals (www.desert-tropicals.com) has a ton of information on growing plants in the Phoenix area.

Keep us posted on any new plants or plantings. It's good to hear some cacti and succulent posts now and then.

Take care,
Grant

Here is a link that might be useful: Grant's June 2010 garden pics

Hello!

ZZ~ Good to see things are going well. Any rain yet in Phoenix. It sure is trying here in Tucson. Clouds are really building!

I saw your post over in cactus and succ. Nice plants! I love the desert rose and just got a few myself a few months back. Also a clearance rescue from lowes. lol!

ZZ~I read partridge breast aloe also does best in part shade.
Grant~any input would be appriciated. :)
I keep mine in dappled shade and it is doing well.

Grant~ Great pics!
I love seeing your plants.
Do you grow the Stapeliads? I thought I read somewhere that you do.

Take care!
JoJo

Hi all,

Yes, JoJo, I do grow a lot of stapeliads (Stapelia mostly, but a few Huernia too). I've had really good luck with them long term. Below is a link to a Huernia insigniflora that is blooming this week if you or anyone is curious.

Huernia insigniflora bloom

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You know, maybe I'm harsh, but I just don't think partridge breast aloes are GREAT performers here. Good, maybe.....adequate, probably, but GREAT? Not in my opinion, LOL. I do have a couple but they really struggle in our summer heat. Mine are in mostly shade so they get sun from sunrise until mid-morning and then bright shade the rest of the day. They grow (slowly!) in winter and do bloom each spring, but they always look a little upset in summer, LOL. I grow a TON of other aloes and love them, including some hybrids of partridge breast aloe x gasteria ("Green Ice", which inherits some of the gasteria's love of our summers so doesn't look as miserable in summertime).

Anyway, I think partridge aloes are just a bit tricky (but I'd love to hear otherwise from folks in hot summer/warm winter areas), so yes to shade for sure. I wouldn't build a big garden display around them as they can sometimes just melt, but I do pepper a couple of them here and there in the garden.

Take care and let us know if you all try them and how they do for you. Just watch that summer watering, LOL.

Grant

Here is a link that might be useful: Huernia insigniflora bloom

Will someone please come to my house and smack my hands every time I reach for the hose?????

After I read the first replies from Grant and Jo, I quit watering. Told myself I would leave everything alone (except for the things still in their 4" nursery plastic pots) until 7 days from my last watering.

I went to check everything out after work and saw one of my Graptopetalums had flopped over. Sure enough, the bottom of the stem was mushy. AAAAAAARRRRRRRRGGGGGGHHHHHH!!
So, I cut the stem off so that I just have the head and about 3 inches of bright green, healthy stem. I'm going to let it callus and try to start it again. sheesh!!

On this subject, I have a couple of lighter-colored echs that are in partial sun in the am and bright shade in the pm. They both have black spots on lower leaves. Is that rot or sun damage?

thanks so much - you guys are the best and one of these days maybe I can start asking questions that don't have anything to do with over watering!!! :-D

Hiya Zinni and all,

We all have issues with figuring out the frequency of watering, so don't feel TOO bad. The best gardeners kill the most plants. :)

Black spots definitely sounds like rot/mildew/bacteria and not too much sun. Hopefully if you let the stem section sit out in the shade to air dry for a few days and then re-plant in new fresh soil, things will be okay. Keep us posted.

I have excellent luck with Stapelias, adeniums, senecio (like string of bananas), kalanchoe, bryophyllum ("mother of thousands"), haworthias, gasterias, aloes, huernias, agaves and non-succulents like plumerias, some epiphyllums, etc., but there are lots of C&S that are really challenging for us in summer. I'd count Aeoniums, Schlumbergera, anything with -veria in its name (Echeveria, Pachyveria, etc), and Crassulas in the hard-to-keep-happy long term catergory.

Keep us posted! We've all lost a lot of plants through experimentation. There is no shame in that. :)

Take care,
Grant