This is a little scarey based on my recent experience with selfing. If they are counting on the seeds from their selfed bulbs to be like the parent, buyers could be in for a surprise!!! I thought the only way to get true bulbs was cuttage?? or offsets?? Does anyone know if seed can give you a plant that is genetically true to the parent, even if both parents are the same plant?? SORRY TO SOUND DUMB!!!

Kristi

The short answer is: NO!

Crossing two HYBRIDS, even if they are they same cultivar is equal to a selfing. Hybrids, even primary hybrids will NEVER give a plant that is the same as the parents, and all the "children" from a selfing will ALWAYS be different between them and from their parents, no 2 will be alike even though some may look very similar.

The only way you can get a true to their parents plants from seed is by selfing a TRUE species only, or by crossing 2 IDENTICAL TRUE species, nothing else will work.

There are natural hybrids in nature. If these hybrids have been there long enough and that the plant is stabilized, they are considered as "natural species" or better yet, stabilized natural hybrids and normally behave as species. But beware, some species sold today may not always be true species, they could very well be more recent natural or artificial hybrids and they will behave as such as well, that is not giving true to their parents plants from seed.

Laurier

So...did you watch the video Laurier...and they have Candy Floss and stress the seed pods? They are selling seed as certain varieties, and also bulbs from those seeds. SCARY AS HELL!! I mean, if it's few bucks for a pretty bulb, but I want to know what I am getting!!!

THANKS for confirming that I still have a bit of college botany, agromony, and genetics running through my veins!

H. Johnsonii would probably be your example of a naturalized hybrid that behaves like a species. They grow like weeds around here.
;-)

Kristi

Yes, I did watch both videos. What I get out of them is mostly that my 1 year old seedlings are about the same size as their 3 years old ones: mines have as many roots as their 3 years old one, they are in 5.5" pots, they have 11 large leaves and they measure 6.5" around and they bloom in less than 2 years, some in 1 year, that is 2-3 years before theirs.

I must be missing something somewhere: how can they grow so slowly in the heat of Florida while it is so cold up here that I have to grow them inside most of the time and under lights? How can we get results that are so far apart, 2 year's worth of growth?

I don't know these peoples and I certainly mean no wrong to them, but their videos were obviously made to inspire and impress. Maybe I'm too "picky", but it certainly had the opposite effect on me! Sorry!...

Laurier

Ditto!
K

Laurier,

I think I can explain what you are missing. Northwest Florida is very similar to my climate and not at all like Central or South Florida which rarely has frosts or freezes.

The difference is that you have your seedlings in a more controlled (warmer temperature) environment. The person producing the video is obviously letting them grow outside in pots all year around with minimal protection from the cold.

This means that they will definitely go into dormancy from around Thanksgiving (or perhaps before) until March each year. In pots, they will be dormant even longer than they would in the ground.

Certainly, seeedlings will bloom in less time if kept in a warmer environment with more light than our winters tend to provide.

The tradeoff is in the numbers of seedlings that you can grow outside, in pots, as opposed to inside or in a temperature controlled greenhouse under lights.

I hope that helps you to understand the difference in growth rates. Larger numbers with slower growth outside vs. smaller numbers inside, under lights...

They appear to be giving the pod parent name with no indication of pollen parents. In my opinion, that is better than giving a pod parent name and saying it is crossed with the pollen of an unlikely cross due to insufficient controls and documention.

We all have a lot to learn. I started learning hybridizing daylilies. That made it easier to understand hippeastrum.

BTW, daylilies are the same in regards to dormancy in seedling years. If you can manage to keep them warm and under lights during that first year or two, they will bloom much quicker.

Hope that helps...

Ann

I just posted some photos with how my bulbs have done. The 1-year olds were over wintered on an enclosed porch and they went dormant (this was before I set up the lights inside). Mine are so much bigger than the FL video bulbs....and the are not taken care of by a pro (or are they??):-)

I was also wigged out by what they were calling the seedlings! Scary...beware what you buy!
Kristi

Kristi,

I transplant mine into large 3-5 gallon containers. Some of the same crosses grow much faster than others and they are in the same pots, same location, same conditions.

I have had one year babies of Johnsonii selfs that were quarter size and sprouting off several pups, whereas in the same pot, others were smaller with no pups.

The diploids tend to grow slower than the larger hybrids.

Also, pot size, watering and fertilizer will sometimes have an effect, but that doesn't explain the difference in sizes within the same 3-5 gallon pots.

There are lots of variances, and even though I have been doing this for many years, I am reluctant to say that I am more successful than anyone else because, for sure, I grow too many and do not give them as much attention as they need.

Years ago, I visited the research station in our city, and sure enough, there was a huge and blooming Red Lion that was a two year old cutting. It was explained to us that it was grown under optimum conditions with proper fertilization and water.

BTW, I have pecan trees and squirrels love them, but I have never had them bother any of my Amaryllis seedlings/cuttings, even before I had cats.

I wonder why? I simply do not know.

Ann

The squirrels and racoons don't eat my seedlings, but upset pots with unpotted seedlings can get messy and since everything is tagged, I like to keep it that way!
K

Thank you Ann, I can understand a little better, but still there are thing that aren't "right", and after seeing Kristi's pix & vid, I'm even more convinced that there is something... "wrong?".

I put my plants out for the summer, and summer up here is from mid-June to mid-August. This year, it rained most of June and July and for the better part of August. It was so cold in July that we had to turn the heat on in the houses. But in Florida, they can grow from March to at least October, that is 2 or 3 time better than the best we can do. Even in the miserable conditions that I have outside up here, I have better results than in Florida in similar growing conditions.

The blooming size bulb you buy from the Netherlands are about 2 year's old. In the video, their blooming size plant is 4 years old.

My 4 months old seedlings look so much better than their 1 year old, same size but with so many more roots. I think that one of the problem is their roots system: since the plants don't have a real good one, they obviously can't sustain the plant like it should. Good roots, good plant; bad roots, bad plant.

Just a note: amaryllis (like irises and several other genera) are poisonous to humans and animals, that is usually why they are not bothered by deers, squirrels and several other pests.

Laurier

I recalled viewing the video the first time, and my recollection was the fact that they specifically said 'first year seedlings', and quite honestly, I understood them, immediately, to mean those growing in the first year of development as opposed to being one year old. There is a big difference, so I can not fault anyone for using the correct terminology.

However, I can understand why you would hear first year seedling and think 'one year old'. Honestly, I did not think that. I thought "seedling in the first year's growth", and indeed, that is what I saw.

That being said, I searched my forum for images of my selfed Johnsonii and thought I would post them here. I would mention that it is important to realize that all seedlings of the same cross will not grow at the same rate. Some will be small and some bigger. I am sure that there are many factors that influence how fast the grow.

Each transplanting at different stages will set them back a little, but being in a bigger pot will usually be more of a benefit than not!

Here you go...

And a closeup...

These have been subjected to being outside and had dormancy after being one year old.

Ann

My first year seedlings (4-7 months from sewing seed) range from the size of a pointer-finger nail to the thumb nail. The ones that I really neglected and just transplanted today are tiny...1/2 a pinkie nail! My seedlings that are 14 months old are bigger than a golf ball! So again, I don't know what they do, but many on the list have learned from the others and we apparently do it better!!

I know that I have a gang pot and they are assorted size, but still....quite big! I laugh that the 7-month old bulbs alreadly look like a miniature bulb with the brown skin on the surface!!

With so many crosses (maybe 20+) I notice that some do much better. Anything with President Johnson or Red Pearl seem to be very very strong!!

Here's to lots of big baby bulbs!!
:-)
Kristi