Just came here from the native garden decor forum...are magnolia pods muricate? They are sure covered with sharp points as the seeds depart.

I assume this characteristic must be adaptive to keeping birds away, no?

I think it's safe to say that the magnolia seed pods are muricate!

~Angie

A couple of new words for Thursday...

campanulate - bell-shaped

Platycodon grandiflorus (balloon flower) has campanulate flowers.

tomentose - covered with densely matted hairs

Sencio cineraria (dusty miller) has silvery tomentose leaves.

~Angie

Thus, campanula as a name for platycodon...by george, I think I've got it.

Whoa, lavendargirl, you are a veritable Dr. Johnson of horticulture, but let's take one word a day, unless they are closely related. Many of us can't digest more than that. If there is discussion with several examples of a word, I think we internalize the words much better too.

The prickly seed pods are probably protection against soft-bodied insect pests, not birds. Insects destroy seeds when they feed on them, birds usually just disperse them.

Here I am again, late to the party - I want to back up and add Opuntia or Prickly Pear Cactus to the phylloclads discussion. With most cactus the stems have taken over the leaf's job and the leaves have become the spines.

Here is an informative link about cactus:A blurb on cactus from wikipedia. The article is succinct and interesting.

The stalk of a leaf that attaches to a stem is a PETIOLE. This was suggested as a WOD in another thread by tamelask.

here is a very confusing graphic which suggests the stem and petiole are synonymous. This should all be so simple...sigh.

Here is a link that might be useful: Leaf Diagram

For Friday....how about:

decurrent - leaf base extends downward to form a wing, adhering to the sides of the petiole

Lagerstroemia indica (crepe myrtle) is an example of a plant with a decurrent petiole.

Another one is {{gwi:589492}} (winged euonymus, burning bush).

Yet another example is Psidium guajava (guava).
~Angie

So, the petiole is the point of insertion into the stem, not the stem itself.

Thanks, angie, for taking us one step further. Seems like I notice decurrency often in the garden.

here is another example:

Here is a link that might be useful: False Aster

I just thought of another plant that climbs by nutation (earlier word). Akebia quinata (chocolate vine) is an awesome plant, in my opinion. The specimin (there may be a two of them) growing at the JC Raulston Arboretum is gorgeous.

You're right about there being a lot of decurrency in the garden.

Hope you are having a great Friday!
~Angie

angie, they used to have a whole beautiful arbor/walk of different akebias at the old entrance into the white garden, but the ripped it out when they put in the new building & entrance. i don't know if they have one in another spot; i didn't notice it. the old one would even fruit sometimes. the not only had a. qiun, they had a. triloba, some pink flowering ones (in addition to the normal chocolate & white), and a variegated leaved one.

so, would rex & angelwing begonias be considered to have a decurrent petiole? or it that something different, since it's more like a separate leaf/husk that encases the base of the petiole & stem? t

My understanding was that the petiole was the whole leaf stem, not the point of attachment to the main stem. You may hear descriptions of extended petioles on certain plants. Some plants have extended petioles normally such as a water lily, which needs them to get to the surface. Sometimes extended petioles indicate a problem such as low light or over-fertilization.

I love decurrent stems. They are sort of strange and mutant looking. Now I know what to call it. -Ais.

Ais, you're right, the petiole is the leaf stalk.

I liked winged sumac. I've got it all over the place here, it really shows up with the red fall color.

Ais, your clarification straightens me out on that confusing diagram I posted...thanks.

Okay....I've got another one.

fimbriate: fringed petal margin

Dianthus chinensis (rainbow pink) have fimbriate (or fimbriated) flowers.

What other plants have fimbriate flowers?

~Angie

certain tulips. also water snowflake- can't recall the botanic right now. might be nerine? has yellow or white flowers. t

A little while ago Brenda posted a picture of a camellia with fringed flowers called Ville des Nantes. There are some fringed roses too, like the Grootendorst series of rugosas.

Ohhhh....I would love to see a camellia with fringed flowers! Brenda, will you post it here again?

~Angie

The picture is on the original thread, large red and white flowers, easy to spot if you scroll down...I just recapped.

BTW, why is my double deep pink camellia (cultivar???) very affected by the freezes, when a white one just like it is not at all affected? This may be a very stupid question. Mine is in a shaded area on high ground, whereas my neighbor's white (looks like a gardenia) is in a low open area by a stream.

Thanks, puppyscruff. I see the picture of the Ville des Nantes Camellia now - and that fimbriate is a duplicate word :-) That's one beautiful camellia.

I have 3 or 4 different camellias - one of which has fuschia and white marbled looking flowers.

When trying to ID it before, someone suggested it may be Camellia japonica 'Governer Mouton'.

That one actually blooms in March, but I have several pink varieties blooming now. All of my camellias seem to do very well through the winter for me. Maybe some varieties just tolerate the freezing better.

~Angie

Lovely, angie, reminds me of fourth of july rose.

I wonder if there would be a link to identify camellias...can't remember the difference between japonicas and sasanquas. All I know is mine, a whole hedge of them around the front porch, about 8' tall, took a real hit when we had the hard freeze.

Perhaps, camellia forest would be a good place to go and take notes.

i'm glad i bookmarked this article on camellias. it's a good start for novices, like myself.
marsha

Here is a link that might be useful: a good, basic camellia article

and here's some more great camellia info, with pictures that may help with ID's.

Here is a link that might be useful: camellia forest

I apologize for getting OT but do any of you grow camelias in full sun? Except for 'Carolina Moonmist'(which I hope to acquire this spring) everything I've read says part shade. But I see camelias growing in all kinds of exposures in other peoples yards.

Shari,

My camellias get a decent amount of morning sun, but not full sun all day.

Here's a new word for today:

umbo: fused bract and scale - the umbo is the free portion that remains

Example:
The female cones of Cupressus arizonica (Smooth Arizona cypress) are distinctly globular (round like a globe) with a prominent umbo at each scale.

Here's a good photo for a visual.

I had two camelias at one house I lived at. They were both the same red camellia. One was in front of the porch in almost all day sun. It bloomed very little and prefered to bloom on the back of the bush. I think it often looked a little ratty by late summer too. The one a few feet away but on the north side got morning sun and afternoon shade, and it bloomed much more profusely. I have a few in too much shade here and they don't bloom as much as the ones with a little more light. I guess there is a perfect amount. I have also seen camelias in full sun in other yards around here, and they do seem to do alright. My feeling is that they probably CAN be planted in full sun, but it is not ideal for them. -Ais.

It's funny, there's a lot of beautiful camellias in what looks like full sun along hwy 210 after it crosses over 50. Usually they do look best with some shade during the hottest part of the day.

I noticed this word in the information on arizona cypress:

Serotinous - a pinecone or other seed case that requires heat from a fire to open and release the seed.

How would this characteristic work as an adaptation? It must have something to do with forest fires.

In areas where naturally occuring forest fires or fires set by native Americans would eliminate underbrush and hardwoods, these seeds would be free to germinate and dominate the forest. Longleaf pine used to cover a large portion of the coastal plain and the maintenace of the ecosystem was dependent on fire, otherwise hardwoods would take over.

A book was written on this subject: Looking for Longleaf: The Fall and Rise of an American Forest.

These are the moments when I know that people who question Darwin are truly (y'all fill in the blank).

Here's an article about the ecology of fire.

Down near the bottom is a little bit about the giant Sequoias and the importance of fire to their survival.

"Sequoia - The Sequoia gigantea or Sierra redwood grows to hundreds of feet tall, over 20 feet in diameter, lives thousands of years, and requires fire to assure its dominance. Without fires sequoias slowly are replaced by competing spruce and fir. Controlled burns are being used in Sequoia National Forest to maintain the historic dominance of the big trees."

~Angie

Very interesting, angie! I noticed our WOD used:

A lodgepole pine forest is naturally adapted to fires. The pines' SEROTINOUS cones have a waxy coating which opens in response to the heat of the blaze, scattering seeds onto soil newly fertilized by nutrients in the ash.

In botany and horticulture, PARTHENOCARPIC literally means virgin fruit; the fruit develops without fertilization of ovules, therefore it is seedless. Parthenocarpy occasionally occurs as a mutation in nature, but it is a defect, as the plant can no longer reproduce.

Humans, however, often see seedlessness as a desirable quality and have selected and artificially propagated parthenocarpic varieties of many plants, including citrus, banana, cucumber, and eggplant. Grapes, too.

In some areas lack of pollinators has induced human cultivation of parthenocarpic varieties. Plants moved from one area of the world to another may not always be accompanied by their pollinating partner.

Thanks, rhizo, for this term.

It is similar to the term PARTHENOGENIC or parthenogenesis in zoology, meaning virgin birth. That's right! there are animals that don't have males of the species anymore. The females give birth to female offspring (actually clones of the mama). The most common example would be certain species of whiptail lizards where the males died out long ago. Some farmers will tell stories of rabbits confined to hutches becoming pregnant after lightening storms even though there were no male bunnies present. Not sure if that is true but it is possible. Only takes a few special hormones to signal that ovum to start acting like its been fertilized - and I know my hormones are all discombobulated when there's lightening flashing.

I just thought that at this special time of year we should explore the truth behind virgin births.

Kuri su massu Omedato gozai massu, Shinnen Omedato gozai massu.
(Merry Christmas & Happy New Year in Japanese)

And what's that new book, "Are Men Really Necessary?"

Human eggs also replicate unfertilized to form a mass of teeth, hair, bone, flesh and thyroidal tissue. It's called a dermoid. I guess we girls are just not as self-sufficient as lizards and eggplants. Not yet, anyway.

John, while you're at it, if you see this, how about explaining the difference between a lichen and a fungus.

A lichen is a fungus!..... That grows symbiotically with algae, resulting in a composite organism that characteristically forms a crustlike or branching growth on rocks or tree trunks.

Yep. Lichens are a combination of two life forms - tho you can't sepparate them now, they won't live independently. Generally the algae live on the top layer and absorb sunlight (most photosynthesize just like plants) while the fungus lives on the bottom layer and eats away at the rock surface or soil surface or tree fibers, whatever it is growing on. A rock living lichen won't live anywhere else but on a rock and most are site specific so if it lives on granite boulders than it generally only lives on granite boulders.

There are some great dyes for fiber made from specific lichens - rare and precious so I don't wanna encourage anyone to go out and scrape lichens for crafts.

There is evidence that lots of life on this planet is in fact the combination of two forms of life. Many viruses are actually half alive - they combine with bacteria to form the virus we experience. Again, certain virus restricted to certain bacteria. And even in animals - each one of our cells has a nucleus with our DNA but each cell also has its own little power source or mitochondria, a special orgin inside each cell. And mitochondria has its own set of DNA. Most likely a hold over from when life began - as a combination of a bacteria and a protzoan.

ok, my brain is bleeding - time to go eat some chocolate.

Thank you john and basil. Gee, it's not looking good for you guys of the species. First parthenogenesis, now this. I just read that spermal mitochondrial dna is destroyed shortly after fertilization and that species can be traced by matrilineage, since mDNA is basically cloned from one's mother.

I think now I understand, having watched umpteen L & O's and CSI's, why mtDNA is studied, but is not as specific a match as one's regular DNA. I don't remember anything mentioned about this in my college biology class in the early 70's.

Okay....now MY brain is bleeding

"Human eggs also replicate unfertilized to form a mass of teeth, hair, bone, flesh and thyroidal tissue."

You must be talking about teeth, hair and bones produce in the ovary when women have cancer of the Ovary. If you ever saw this in women who have cancer of the ovary, you never ask again if men are need for women to make babies.

"Human eggs also replicate unfertilized to form a mass of teeth, hair, bone, flesh and thyroidal tissue. It's called a dermoid"

Online dictionary: dermoid: Resembling skin; skinlike

You need to remmenber that men had their own babies before God gave us women to have them for men.

Also you need to remmenber that this is a garden message board!

No, dermoids are 98% benign and bilateral. I had them and so did my grandmother. When mine were discovered during a caesarian, one of the assisting surgeons, seeing one for the first time, couldn't hide his disgust (I was awake). A doctor once told me that the joke among surgeons is "when the teeth are chattering, it's a dermoid!"

Now back to plants.

Here's a new word:

Coriaceous - leather-like; thick, tough, and somewhat rigid

A few plants that I can think of right off with coriaceous leaves are:
Osmanthus x fortunei (Fortune's Osmanthus)
Mahonia bealei (Leatherleaf mahonia)
Phoradendron macrophyllum (Mistletoe)
Ficus lyrata (Fiddle-leaf fig)

~Angie

OK, the MD's and molecular biologists in our group must be gritting their teeth. We better stick to definitions please, because the medical and genetic misinformation is getting a little scary.

Some of us were on a tour at Camellia Forest yesterday. What a wonderful place! They definitely carry Mahonia..leathery and oh so pinchy!!
But wouldn't camellia leaves themselves also be considered
'coriacious?' How leathery is leathery?

Some of us were on a tour at Camellia Forest yesterday. What a wonderful place! They definitely carry Mahonia..leathery and oh so pinchy!!
But wouldn't camellia leaves themselves also be considered
'coriacious?'

Apomixis
Citrus trees and many other species of angiosperms use their seeds as a method of asexual reproduction; a process called apomixis.

* In one form, the egg is formed with 2n chromosomes and develops without ever being fertilized.
* In another version, the cells of the ovule (2n) develop into an embryo instead of  or in addition to  the fertilized egg.
Recently, an example of apomixis in gymnosperms was discovered (see Pichot, C., et al, in the 5 July 2001 issue of Nature). In a rare cypress, the pollen grains are diploid, not haploid, and can develop into an embryo when they land on either

* the female cones of their own species (rare) or
* those of a much more common species of cypress.

Is this paternal apomixis in a surrogate mother a desperate attempt to avoid extinction?

(this was all cut and pasted)

I am attempting to stay ontopic but my husband says I am argumentative. Still, I HAVE to ask what babies came before Seth, Cain, and Abel? (biblically speaking) I guess my education is lacking. -Ais.

Here is a link that might be useful: more on asexual reproduction

Thank God many great minds in history were "argumentative," ais. That is how we learn and move forward, not only in science, but socially and spiritually. I may get one of those Tjohn brain hemorrhages following this, but by gosh, I'm going to try.
What's that saying about great women that I see on T-shirts? Something about how they were never compliant and seldom knew their place.

"well-behaved women seldom make history" ?

apologies to the OT gods :)
marsha

Thank you, marsha, that's the one! if I were into tattoos, that should be etched on my whereever.