Are you talking about Calycanthus? If so, it is a highly desirable wildflower. What wildflowers were you plannning on a steep grade?

yes I am referring to calycanthus, and although I personally love the stuff for it's sweet scent and hardiness my clients don't and want it replaced with as they refer to them "the kind of wild flowers planted along interstate" which would be daisies, Black eyed Susann's, poppies, etc. my plan, if I can figure out how to do it is to remove the calycanthus and make wildflower mats that will hold the seeds in place until well rooted.But I first have to remove the calycanthus without harming the wildlife of Lake James. All of the brush killers I have seen have a warning not to use around water sources.

Maybe you could have a plant rescue, if your clients agreed to it. There might be enough people who would like to dig them up and take them home. (How big are they and where are you?)

As I recall, calycanthus grows in clumps - it spreads from shoots. So you would have to dig every bit of the hillside to get rid of it all and not have new bushes popping up, which you will probably have anyway. Can you dig most of it, leaving only a few bushes with a few stems, using them as background? You would have to go back at least once a year and dig out the expanding shoots, but.... Failing changing their mind, if you contacted the local Native Plant Society, they would probably be very happy to come dig them up.

I don't know the code/requirements in your area, but do know some areas have a riparian buffer set-back, meaning that you can't clear out the 10 or 20 feet next to water. While it might apply more to streams than to lakes, and be more observed in the breach than in the doing, it might give you some way to persuade your client to leave some of the native stuff that is already there.

I know, people get a picture in their mind's eye of what they think they want, and it's hard to change their visualization to another image... Me, I would rather have bushes etc., if only because it gives a more interesting view in the winter/early spring, when the "wildflowers" aren't growing at all, never mind in bloom, which might be a point you could use to change their plans. As well, not knowing how steep the banks is, but the calycanthus roots are probably doing a LOT to keep the banks in place - have you explained that to your clients?

Could you persuade them to alter their planned "wildflower" meadow to one more made up of true natives? The ones mentioned are mostly not native wildflowers for here, and will mostly have to be replanted every few years to make a massive display (the interstate crews mostly till up their "wildflower" plots and replant annually - are your clients aware of that?) while if you planted with native perennials, with a few reseeding annuals mixed in, you wouldn't HAVE to be there 3-4 times a year for 3-4 days, just twice a year for 2 days, to trim-up, weed etc. And I'm not trying to lose you a client, nor to give you less work for which you can rightfully bill them, but I am trying think of ways for you to stop them from having you mess up an already stable area that already has native plants growing, instead of making it look just like everywhere else. And from your post, you ARE trying to do that too, so....

There is an herbicide listed for near water, but I can't remember if it's called Rodeo, or if that's the one NOT so-listed. It's restricted, but from the tenor of your posting, you are licensed to use herbicides. If all else fails, at least you would be doing the least damage you could....

I have persuaded them to leave background shrubs because of their sweet scent with the agreement that I keep them neat and trimmed, and they also agree that the aggressive root system put out by the shrubs IS controlling erosion, but the lady of the house is a lover of wildflowers...daisies and blackeyed susanns in particular and wishes them to be planted over the slope. My problem is how do I control the upshoots of the calycanthus and other invasive weeds such as poison oak and wild grapevine without harming the wildflowers. Litterally there are THOUSANDS of these calycanthus growing from top to bottom of this slope, except where he has placed HEAVY fabric and rip rap stone at the bottom along the shoreline. I plan to take a few of the shrubs myself because as I said I do love them...remind me of childhood playing in the woods, and if ANYONE would love some they are welcome to them...I am in Morganton, NC and my clients are on Lake James. I know how hard it is to find native calycanthus. Thanks so much for all the replies.

Please contact tom@ncwildflower.org. If he is near you, he will give you a call, if you send him your email and/or phone number, and he will arrange a rescue. NC has a very active group, especially around Raleigh and Greensboro.

I'd be inclined to dig up small sections of the bushes and bury a wood box deep enough to keep the runners out. Fill with good soil and plant with the wild flower seeds of choice. Doing these boxed 'beds' among the calycanthus will make weeding easier while retaining much of the caly to hold the soil. I might also recommend a thin mesh over the boxed soil beds so hard rains won't dislodge the soil/seeds.
I think accents of color is a lot more interesting than one massive display like those along the highways.

both of the wildflowers (rudbeckia & daisies) she especially likes will reseed themselves once they're happy, too- another nice bonus. eventually the whole thing will tend to look more natural as the plants seed & settle in where they're happy. none of the 3 really bloom together much, so she'll have different spots of color at different times. i'd consider adding in some yarrow , aquilegia canadensis and queen anne's lace- they will help stabilize with their deep tap roots and will harmonize with the daisies and rudbeckia. the idea of wooden boxes is a good one.

How is the light in this area? Would there be sufficient light for the flowers you've mentioned?

Thank you all so much for all of your responses. I also like the idea of building sections of wildflowers over the hillside. Thank you ncrescue for the information regarding the
rescue group. The light on this hillside is full sun most if not all day. I am going to "TRY" making a wildflower seed mat using newspaper or brown packing paper,starch and seeds and lots of prayer it works....I have never tried making these before so I have no idea if it will work. If it works it will hold the seeds in place until the roots establish.
Thanks again for all of your help.

a thought- you could wintersow the seeds and put out chunk o seedlings come spring instead of making seed mats. wintersowing is easy and foolproof. you'll get better germination and use a lot less seed. or, you could cover the mats/boxes with a bit of reemay/floating row cover, which would help keep the temp & moisture more constant for easier and better germination, in addition to helping keep everything in place if it rains heavily. just staple it to the boxes loosly and tear it off once you have small plants. if you have a good source of seed and get lots, i wouldn't even bother with the mats- just sow heavily into your boxes and go for it! the winter will help to germinate them- if we ever get winter! don't cover the seeds with much; maybe just a dusting of peat moss- they are tiny and need the light to germinate (and they'll get enough through the reemay). i think it will be lovely when it's all done.

Calycanthus are one of those plants that tolerate very wet and then very dry feet. That may be why they are thriving, especially at the foot of the hill near the water. Maybe poor soil conditions on the hill are making them look unattractive? Mulching and topdressing with something organic that won't wash down into the lake might make hill attractive without as much effort? A "field of wildflowers" is one of the most difficult gardens to establish, unfortunately. If you disturb the soil to introduce new plants, scads of weed seeds will be brought to the surface to germinate. You will either have to weed by hand to select for the tiny wildflower seedlings, or plant like the Dept of Trans does - large drifts with tens of pounds of seeds, planted thickly, still full of weeds if you could see bed up-close instead of from car, and bulldozed every season for new seeding. Tammy's right about winter-sowing. My coneflowers are reseeding themselves in poor soil, but takes a while. Also Rudbeckia triloba, Heliopsis helianthoides, native heuchera, tiarella, calycanthus, zizia, trichostema, can take unamended soil for me and hold on without special care. Most everything else takes major soil improvement to thrive and bloom in woodland situation, for me.

I don't see how you can keep the Calycanthus off the hillside without employing a thermal nuclear device. Mowing them down won't work - they'll just resprout. They have been dropping seeds all these years which will sprout once they see the light of day. Anything you do to plant new plants will only evigorate the existing dormant calycanthuses'.

If this was my project I would start along one edge or designate one area and start the slow process of converting it to wildflower meadow from there and every year add more and more realestate to the project. Backbreaking work, I mean endless backbreaking work - but you will have job security because no one else will touch the project.

I would kill for a calycanthus with aroma - all of mine are scentless.

I think I agree with John - and my one calycanthus is too little to have flowered yet, so I don't have that to wish for, yet - but it will be almost impossible to keep weeds, including new calycanthus, from sprouting. I have had relatively good luck with laying down cardboard or 4-6 sheets of newspaper, and mulching over that 4-6 in. of shredded wood mulch. BUT, it wasn't much of a hill, and I planted shrubs or established plants in it, not seeds. Can you use the above ideas for winter-sowing and bottom-less boxes to start seeds for the initial spreading of the "wildflowers", and then transplant individual plantlets from the 'bunches', come spring? As John said, you will have job security - no-one else would want it! And, you do, I know have to show willing to follow her desires, and and have something to show for your efforts come the spring. You would almost have to use a Bobcat to even make a token clearing out of the hill, and it will make an awful mess! I would think doing it by hand would take a couple of weeks..., and also make a mess, half of which would probably wash down the hill into the lake, and get the HOA mad at them, even if you put up silt fences....

Opting for the best of bad choices, if it were me, I would try for the "spotty" smaller swathes of flowers, and not for the massive sweep that the client may have had in her mind's eye.... If for no other reason, that it ain't gonna happen, unless you go for all-out chemical warfare, and mess up the lake and do major damage to YOUR sensibilities! Not to mention what it might do to your license, if you used the heavy guns near water, and it came out.... I think the herbicide for near water works, just not quite as well or as quickly as Round-Up. Anyway, good luck, and let us know what you are able to persuade your client into.

The Native Plant Society has a website that lists some good native choices. If the client wants wildflowers that aren't native to here, it's hard to see how they "are "wildflowers". I'm just feeling that she is lucky to have a desirable native flowering shrub already holding her slope together, instead of an eroding slope full of poison ivy and kudzu. Weeds and invasive exotic plants are what happens when man disturbs the natural environment. They thrive because they are better adapted to disturbed, low fertility soil. Roundup will kill the amphibians in the lake, further destroying the client's "wild" environment. I know people do it every day, becasue of some magazine photo desire, but it still shocks me. I was on the train in Germany last week, admiring the cover crops on fields, modern windmills, and vast patchworks of 20X20 plots used as community gardens by people without enough land to garden near their homes. It's encouraging to see people appreciating their natural environment, and I wonder what they think of our bulldozing and building strip malls as fast as we can. OK, sorry, soapbox episode over.

Here is a link that might be useful: some local natives