oxankle

Hardy Chicago, Sal's, Sal's Corleone

oxankle
February 14, 2008

Italiangirl says my Plantranch HC has only three lobes and so is boloni as HC has five lobes..

Being a total ignoramus I bow to her superior knowledge, but I check further just the same.

In this forum way back there is a discussion of sources for HC and two strains of Sal's. Both strains of Sal's are said to originate with Belleclare. With Pictures. One is said to be mislabeled and is actually black sicilian.

The picture of the "good" strain, the true Sal's, has leaves with three lobes.

Will some of you with Sal's discuss this? It is quite possible that Plantranch's HC is actually Sal's.

Ox

Comments (33)

  • gene_washdc

    Ox,
    Even a fig grower with extensive experience with those 3 varieties would find it hard to do more than hazard a wild guess based on this photo. If you're set on having any one particular variety, you should find a collector and try to arrange a deal rather than buy it from a seller on ebay who claims a fig can sail through a zone 4 winter, and that you need two for pollination. If, on the other hand, any fig will do, then go for the $5 fig on ebay.

  • italiangirl74

    Ciao oxancle, I have both. I have a hardy Chicago, that my friends in Sicily call Mongibello simply because it comes from the Mt.Etna, Catania province of Sicily, Italy. My Hardy Chicago has fingers with the middle finger being longer and more how do you describe it, Spikey is the only word I could use. It seems to have a ragged edge. Kind of choppy. My Sal's Corleone Which originally came from a person who aquired it from Belleclaire nursery has little shorter fingers with a nice roundness to them unlike the Hardy Chicago. The middle fingers are also smooth and not Spikey. Also, sometimes when people take pictures of their figs, they need to take a picture of the more dominant leaf style. That would be more useful. On all my variety of figs, when budding they tend to have circular, triple node, ect which doesn't really help at first. I hope I am explaining this okay. I also aquired a Sal's from a very nice person which I gave it to my Uncle who took it to Florida with him. He sent a picture of it a week or so ago. It also is very smooth and pretty as compared to Hardy Chicago ( or Mongibello if you come from where I do ) Which has a more harder edge. None of them Had the three leaf shape as being the dominant when established. Only when initially budding. Maybe someone has an explanation as to why this happens. Ciao and good luck. You just have to be careful there are a few out there who are selling not what they claim to be. If a variety or name doesn't matter to you, then I would jump on 5 dollars, so long as it isn't Zergonator. Ciao.

    P.S. I'm not an expert, just have 43 years of observing fig growing and fig fanatics in my family. We had fig orchards. Also I started to do it for myself for just a few years now. Ciao

  • oxankle

    Thanks to the both of you, Italiangirl and Gene. Since I am a total novice here I will just take what I can get and get started. When buying from unknown nurseries one is not only at the mercy of the management, but also the person who packs an order.

    Perhaps later I can get cuttings with known origins and get the true strains.
    Ox

  • italiangirl74

    This fall 08, I will be more than happy to send you cuttings of well identified and true varieties. Just remind me. Ciao Ox Maggie

  • oxankle

    Maggie:

    You just went way up high on my A list. Thanks a million.

    Chuck

  • mrhappy

    Chuck,

    Maggie's a rock star
    Oklahoma winters are tough but my former father-in-law wrapped chicken wire around his fig trees creating a basket he would fill with leaves or loose straw. It worked well. His figs were on the north side of his house in Shawnee.

    Richard

  • oxankle

    Richard;
    I cannot count on being around much longer, so I am trying to find hardy varieties that can survive on their own in sheltered locations. Plan to plant them along the S. side of my house in the corners created by a fireplace chimney. I doubt that my kids will have the time to pamper them. I am also going to grow some in barrels on dollies, which will work so long as I can care for them.

    Who knows; perhaps global warming will make this fig and citrus country.
    Ox

  • scott_ga

    Hi Italiangirl,

    Is this what the leaf of your Hardy Chicago (Mongibello) looks like?

  • mountainman0826

    Following is a picture of the fruit and leaf of my Hardy Chicago:

  • leon_edmond

    Here are some photos of my Hardy Chicago:


  • fignut

    Another Hardy Chicago, LOL.

  • italiangirl74

    Scott, All the nice pictures. Yes it looks identical like fignuts photo, the predominent leaves.Many of the others leaves look like yours. Seems the middle finger in the Hardy Chicago is longer and more rugged an easy way to identify them. Ciao, Maggie

    P.S. What means Rockstar? Ciao

  • gorgi

    Nice 4 HC leaf pictures, but what is your ultimate source
    (as far as you know)? I do have 2 HC's (EL and Harriman) with
    leaves very similar to all 4 pics, but plant growth and fruit
    are different, also have an unknown with also very similar
    leaves, but totally different fruit...
    George (NJ).

  • fignut

    Good point George - mine came from Mr. Robin.

  • leon_edmond

    Mine came through a friend from an unknown source.

  • italiangirl74

    Ciao, My Mongibello ( Hardy Chicago) came from Italy. Most of my figs are from my cousin who raises The italian varieties there.Alot of them still have the original names, not the names that were given when brought to the U.S. I got the Peters Honey and the Roma Nera here in America. Also the Sal's Corleone came from a reliable American source. My Paradiso came from my cousin in Italy also, which is the Paradiso that is Green with a little what i Call rust color on the lower part but not dominating. Ciao, Maggie

  • gorgi

    For all (you few) that may have it, my unknown very
    HC-leaf-like fig is my #GM.11 (SD) that came recently
    to me from a very unwilling (new) neighbor, whose
    previous (nice) old home ower, circra 1980, I spoke too,
    and mentioned a very Sicilian origin.

  • mountainman0826

    My Hardy Chicago was acquired in 2005 from C.S., a fig enthusiast here in Austin who made most of his acquistions 8 or 10 years ago and more. C.S. contributed fig cuttings to Davis, including White Texas Everbearing (Kadota aka Dattato, in my opinion). When I last spoke with him, C.S. sent his regards, Leon.

  • oxankle

    Thanks to those of you who posted the HC leaf pictures. You have no idea how helpful those are to a novice. Adding the quarter is a real help too.

    ox

  • leon_edmond

    Got it mountainman. Thanks. My best to C.S. as well.

  • gorgi

    Correction:
    Make (circa) 1980 = 1990 when I did speak to my #11
    good old (Sicilian) fig man, wonder what happened to
    him, hope he just moved (rather than just died).

    Does CS mean (any) Commercial Supplier
    (as used as an SSE source)?

    George (NJ).

  • mountainman0826

    Hi, George,

    C.S. are the initials of the fig enthusiast here in Austin that supplied me with cuttings for quite a number of the fig cultivars in my collection.

    Joe

  • scott_ga

    Mine is from the local Lowes garden shop (I know, but at $9, I couldn't resist). The leaf pictured is the third leaf on an air layer I made last fall from the larger tree. I'll watch this summer to see how the leaves from the older tree compare to the authentic HCs pictured. Figs looked similar to Leon's--they were tasty, but late.

  • palmfan

    This message is for ItalianGirl174 or anyone out there who has pictures of Sal's Corleone to post here. I was intrigued to read that Sal's Corleone has rounded "stubby" fingers on its leaves. That is seemingly PRECISELY how I might describe a "mystery" fig a friend from Cape May Court House gave me a couple of years ago. Its leaves are quite distinct from other figs in my collection. The figs from this plant are dark, medium size and good tasting- quite similar to what I believe is an Eastern Brown Turkey which I have been taking with me everytime I move. A posted photo just might clinch it for me! Another question, especially for Gene in D.C. is "What was the source of your Sal's? I recently bought one of your plants from someone in South Jersey. It was grown to almost 3 feet from a 2007 cutting. It is a real fine plant that is sleeping in my garage. Thanks everyone! I love this forum about my favorite fruit tree!

  • gene_washdc

    Hi palmfan,
    I have a couple of different Sal's now -- thanks to George, but yours would be the one I got from Edible Landscaping in Virginia. It does very well for me here planted outside. The owner of EL now believes his Sal's and Hardy Chicago to be the same. I have both from him and can say that they are not, and that Sal's is the better tree. There have been a few threads in the past on the forum that have discussed and compared the two varieties.

  • gorgi

    Gene,

    You being the ultimate (last known source) of my Sal's (EL)
    fig and also me having two HC's (EL-bought and Hartmann-thanks to Herman),
    I think you should try the
    H.HC; it is somewhat different (definitely more vigorous)...

    Email me privately if interested in a cutting (or 2);
    a very good rooter!
    George (NJ).

  • italiangirl74

    Ciao Palmfan. I have a Sal's Corleone that I got from a gentleman who got it from Gorgi ( George ) who got it from the old original Belleclaire nursery. I also received a Sals from someone who also got theirs from Gene. I sent that one to my Uncle Sal in Miami, mainly because it was a larger tree and I knew he would have no trouble adjusting it there. He just got a hold of me and sent me pictures of the Sal's not the Sal's Corleone which I kept. The two trees are different. From what I understand, Belleclaire had two different sal's trees, the regular Sal's actually being a Black Sicilian, then the true Sal's Corleone. My Uncles tree is already growing little figs and obviously growing wonderful in his large Pot he keeps it in. Even in Florida, he is very mindful of temperature and wants to be able to move them around if need be, like myself. I don't agree either with EL's judgement that the two are the same, the HC and the Sal's. I wonder where Edible landscaping got their Sal's trees from in the beginning since The Di'Paola brothers were the original owners, and the HC and the Sal's are so different? When I get a chance, I will learn how to put my pictures here. I will post one of my Sal's Corleone, then also one of my Uncle Sal's Sal's. you can see the difference, and you will be able to compare all three of them. Maybe your mystery tree is a Sal's if you can find out if it came from the Di'Paola's at Belleclare. I will keep you in mind. Ciao, Ciao, Maggie

  • herman2_gw

    Here is the Sal's Corlleone only picture i have:

  • palmfan

    Thanks, Herman, for posting that photo of Sal's Corleone. I can't tell if my mystery fig could be that, but my gut feeling is that it is NOT a Sal's Corleone. The plant from my friend in Cape May Court House is something with unique rounded foliage with short "fingers". It is unlike any other fig I have seen.
    Herman, while I have your attention, I got a small rooted and leafed out cutting of a Marseilles vs which I believe originated with you. How good is this variety, and do you know where I can get good info on it?
    p.s. I need to learn how to post pictures on this site this spring so I can post photos of my "mystery" fig with the large rounded leaves to see if anyone is familiar with it.

  • herman2_gw

    Well Plumfan:Marseilles VS Black is as good as a fig can be in New Jersey.
    It originate to a Italian lady from Columbia Maryland.
    Planted by her father in 1943.
    All she knew is that is a Marseilles,and later i found it was black and not white like other Marseilles.
    No other fig in my Back yard performs as good as this one.
    Outstanding.

  • palmfan

    Thanks, Herman, for the good report on Marseilles vs. By the way, what does the vs stand for? Do you wrap this variety, or is it sufficiently hardy for you? Here I can grow figs with no protection, at least the varieties I have have all been fine here. My growing season is often a month longer than even nearby areas less than a dozen miles away to the north and northeast of me.
    A question for Italiangirl174 (Maggie): Is Sal's Corleone significantly better than the other Sal's? Do they both crop twice? (brebas) If yes, are both crops equal in quality? Any chance of trading a couple of cuttings of my mystery fig for Sal's Corleone? (Contact me off Gardenweb.) Thanks, Palmfan (Jim)

  • jimmy_56

    Hi, If anyone out there has cuttings from a Sal fig,I would like to have a cutting or a couple of cuttings. I will be glad to pay for handling and shipping.Please email me.

  • peg919

    Maggie,

    Don't be surprised that your Uncle's Sal's tree has figs. It had figs it's first summer. I got the cuttings from Gene last year and they all had figs that first summer. It is a good producer. Mine all dropped this years breba's. My garage was too warm and it was too cold to move them outside. They are outside now waiting for warm weather and the main crop.

    Peg

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