I'll give you some ideas from a non-professional: What you do with your back yard depends on a few things. First, what do YOU want -- a place to sunbathe, a place to look at the view, total privacy, room for a swing set for children? Do you want to grow roses, do you want low maintenance?

Do you plan to stay in the house for a long time? If you have plans to sell and move on in a few years, you need to have enough space for lawn that the back yard doesn't eliminate families with children from the potential buyers.

I used to stick my face into a big bubble terrarium and think, "Someday I'll have a garden like this." I'm in a house on a small corner lot in Kirkland but surrounded and engulfed by big leaves (bananas, gunnera, tetrapanax and palms) and colored foliage and scented plants. I've recreated my terrarium.

In my case, my most valuable investment was several truckloads of something called "Maple Valley Humus." Now you can get truckloads of compost from Cedar Grove. If you start out with great soil, anything you plant in the right exposure will thrive and you won't have to use herbicides (again) or pesticides (ever).

It is a great, resourceful site. Thanks for your suggestions. Below, you will see the specification to what Ifm planning to do.

I think the 4 inches deck along the walkway is the most economical approach (I could be wrong) for that area. Perhaps, I might build an awning or patio roofing over the deck if necessary.

Thanks again and hope to hear more suggestion from all of you.

Diane gave you a good start - as a professional designer, this is pretty much the same procedure I go through with new clients also - take some time and think about exactly how you want to use your back garden and what you want it to do for you.

As to the advisability of a low deck in the side yard area, that may not be the best or most economical way to go. How much use will that small side door get? What does it connect to? Will you use the deck for normal deck activities (BBQ'ing, seating, eating, socializing)? It's not very large and the use will be restricted as a result. It will also tend to be a bit cramped or claustrophobic feeling just by virtue of the high fence along one side and the wall of the house along the other. How will you transition from the gate to the 4" rise the deck will offer? Have you considered the need to move materials or equipment through this area from the front (mower, garbage cans, yard waste) and the obstacle the deck may provide?. Perhaps a walkway that will connect to those planned in back makes more sense, surrounded by low growing, low maintenance plantings. Or even a graveled area. Both will be far more economical than constructing a wooden deck that will require annual maintenance.

I am also a bit concerned about the drainage in that area. Generally the simple "hole" test for drainage is a 12" diameter hole 12" deep filled with water. Drainage of the water from the hole in 30-45 minutes is considered "good" drainage, 2-3 hours is "moderate" drainage and anything longer than 3 hours and certainly as long as 24 hours is considered "poor" drainage. Construction of a French drain may be advised.

Your photo with overlay doesn't reveal it, but where does that walkway bisecting the two lawn areas go? Pathways should always have a destination :-)

I second the suggestion of no side deck! It WILL get mossy and very slick overtime (It looks shady there) and will require maintenance. Deck maintenance is not fun! I have made just about every mistake you can make in gardening and can't say enough about having good soil. It will make your gardening experience so much more enjoyable. Drainage is crucial! I started out with cheap and even free hand me down plants just to fill the space. They are gone, ripped out and I now have things I really like to look at and enjoy. Bottom line, its your garden and you get to have it your way but it can help to look at photos and magazines even your neighbors gardens to get an idea of what you might like. Looking at your neighbors gardens will give you an idea of what is growing well in your area and what improvements they have made by way of raised beds and hardscaping. Happy gardening!

I think one of my concerns would be the future erosion along the side fence and the sloping hill in the back.
The jpg below shows how the builder of our previous home put in a curb and sidewalk to help control erosion along an area between the house and fence. we were having flagstone added at the time the photo was taken).

Knowing how often we used that side yard to bring in 'everything' by wheelbarrow and handtruck, gg makes a good point about keeping that area easily accessible.

If you're going to spend the majority of your time on the deck, consider increasing its size with a wider band of stairs coming off of it down to the sod.

Here is a link that might be useful:

Thanks for all your responded. Your suggestions sounds very practical and I can always come up with plan B or C..... I am totally new to landscaping so I really appreciate your ideas, they're efficacious for me.

After reviewing all the advices and suggestions, Ifve decided to not split the walk path, instead go with the idea of the stepping stones to the back door (plz see the new plan B photos) and yes, there will be trees planted along the fence (I love tree too). Therefs much work that needs to be done and Ifm still in the process of taking it one step at a time.

The reason for the side deck is because I planned on using that space for storage (like a tools, skate ramp ,toys...... ). Also, I think the side yard area is big enough to be used as my workstation as well. It will still be easily accessible through that gate. So, in prevention of moss/slick ground Ifve considered building a roof to keep the side yard area dry thus no moss build up. If wood deck isnft advisable for the ground covering, would cementing that whole side space be a better alternative? Would it also be less expensive?

I definitely need to install some sort of drainage solution along the side yard area, Ifm still trying to figure out if I should do French drain or regular drainage pipe? I just learned that a French drain is a drain with no pipe. So, Please continue give me any suggestion and I really appreciate if anyone can tell me more about how to install drain system along the fence? should I install the drain system behind or in front of the retaining wall. Thanks again for any help.

That's too tight of an area, even for columnar hornbeam trees. Also, once foliage grows over the fence, you may either irritate a neighbor, or, have a neighbor move (who liked your trees) and get one that shears the limbs at the fence line.

The property line goes straight up to the sky.

If there is a way, your best option may be to center the trees in the yard as a foundation for your design and work it from there.

Always work according to priorities.

The most common mistake in landscape design is squeezing trees into little corners and into tight skinny beds.

I'm in a similar situation (new house, no landscaping). On one side of my house, I put down landscape fabric and gravel. This makes it easy to roll the recycle bins, wheel barrow, etc. Even if you put a deck with an awning over this area, it will still get wet/slippery....

It looks like drainage is an issue in most of your yard. If it were me, I would investigate further.... No use in your water running down your slope and watering your neighbor's yard (or worse, your crawl space) :-).

I second the comment above about the trees. It's not just the height and width that need room, but the roots as well. If you would like greenery in that narrow side yard, perhaps a climbing vine on the fence would help? A trellis attached to the house, maybe? Oh, although keep in mind that you'll eventually need to paint the house.... "They" say you aren't supposed to plant too close to the foundation or siding, but.... I don't know what tall, skinny, shade-tolerant plants would work (I'm in the same boat). Foxglove? Meadow Rue? I'm glad you posted this topic - I'll keep and eye on it in case some of the ideas will work in my yard! :-)

Speaking from the experience of having a basement that used to flood, the former owners had a concrete patio under a deck on the side of the house where the ground sloped toward the house. The concrete patio also sloped toward the house which is a violation of building codes and common sense. There is a formula for a certain amount of slope going away from the foundation of the house. Your original side yard probably was very good for drainage, and changing it will make water pressure against your basement. I spent a lot of time creating ditches rather like your original one to protect our basement from future flooding. The low part in the middle could have a brick or concrete walkway, and the sloping sides could be planted with a variety of perennials for a nice green look. Then you wouldn't have needed a retaining wall in that area, but I would have wanted to install a retaining wall on your bigger slope past the deck to make a level terrace that would be a good place for some trees. So before everything is set in stone, I would advise that you find out what the code is for slope away from a foundation and follow it. BTW, your photos and diagrams are excellent!

Start digging this afternoon and I need your opinion.

Here is the photo of today works. As you can see the other side of the fence is the public walk path that already has drainage pre-built below the rock. Does it appear to be enough slopes for water to travel down and drain?

Will go to Home Depot tomorrow for some drain pipe. Should I use use perforated 2 hole 3" pipe?

Thanks again.

I was thinking to fill this area with concrete and build a 4 inch curb on the side (next to fence). Does anybody have a better idea to this? I'm just an amateur and am open to any suggestions that may save me money and time. Thanks!

While you're at HD, pick up one of their books on installing drain lines. Digging a drain line 13" deep isn't going to accomplish anything if the slope along the line isn't correct.
For instance: when we had to have the drain tile redone in our previous home (builder didn't install it as he claimed!) the workers started out with a depth around 18", but by the time they reached the front of the house the depth was over 4 ft. We then had to install a sump pump/housing that pumped the water to a city drainage area.

Why are you concerned about the drainage along the narrow walkway? At least it looks like you have gutters and the downspouts are connecting to a line leading, hopefully, away from your home.
I'd be more concerned about terracing the slope behind the deck.

Just curious, but is the drainage problem in this area due to runoff from elsewhere, or is it that ground doesn't absorb water quickly (or both)? BTW, your pictures are very helpful!

This is new development. Ifd moved into this new house one years ago. So far I don't see any drainage problem in our area. Just want to make sure I install a good drainage that allow the water run away from the house before any landscaping project. The slope behind the deck would be my next project.Thanks very much for all this helpful information.

the drainage system as shown from photos below.

Base on that photo for the concrete and catch basins, you would need to have a crease along the length for water to get into the openings. That means two slight slants. One away from the house, and another from curb to the drains. That means you would not need the curb, unless you need to keep bark out. But the curb is probably not needed if your concrete guy maintains a slight slant like 1/2 drop per 10'.

But, if I were to keep the curb, I'd place just one rectangular drain in the outer corner and slightly slope the concrete from house to curb and a slight slant the other way toward the drain. You really only need one opening if you do it right.

I put a lawn in one day where run-off ran through. I put a 2" drain cap (green) in the very center of about 400 sq. feet of lawn - almost a circular area. I sloped the grade inward by about 1" - a barely detectably bowl shape.

Drainage is one of my favorite things after working at several country clubs in the 1980s. It's almost an art. There are dozens of ways to fashion a drainage system.

Hi Mdvaden of Oregon,

I wish you live in my area so you can provide me the professional advice on the step by step process on my project. I am willing to pay for your consultation fee, considering that it is a fair price.

After talked to few people in Home Depot. I thinks using the www.deckplans.com floating foundation to build a deck in the side yard area should be less expensive than cementing the whole side yard. So I come out with this new plan as you can see in below diagram. I also plan to use treated wood to build a retaining wall in the other side of my hill.

Feel free to drop me your inputs, ideas, and suggestions. Thanks again for all your help.

Rick