Dawn,
I received and opened the email from him just before I left to go get the 3 point tiller for my tractor. So didn't have time to post a link to his page. But knew you might and if you didn't I would. That is what I came here to check for. I bought the tiller in an online auction last week in Burlington, CO. 197 miles from my doorstep. Left at 12:20 and was home at 7:02. So didn't waste any time. Looks as nice as it did in the photos. Which isn't the case very often. Had planned to leave earlier but had a water leak in the utility room this morning. So fixed it before I left. Bought a tractor with a loader in an online auction yesterday.It is only 60 miles from here. Will go after it tomorrow. So hopefully will be able to clean pens tomorrow, spread manure and leaves and then till them under. A coworker brought me all the leaves he cleaned up from his after work lawn business. Have a pile at least 4 foot tall after we walked on them to compact them some and at least a 20 foot circle. So will have plenty of leaves this year.

Back to Tomatofest. I haven't looked at the varieties he had on sale yet. I've always had good results with his seeds. A few crosses over the years but not bad and he is great to make things right. If I go look and buy anything I can blame you now. LOl. Jay

Jay,

I assumed you were too busy to post the link to Gary's website, to I did it. I didn't know you were running all over the countryside buying farming equipment. : ) At the rate you're going, you're going to have to build a new tractor shed or something.

So, when you have time, come back and tell us about your tiller and tractor.

I have a lot of as-yet uncollected leaves to mow up and chop up to add to my beds, but I've already mowed and collected quite a few. I just feel like no matter how many I add, I need more, more, more. Now that snake season has undoubtedly ended thanks to the nights in the 20s, I can go into the woods and rake up more leaves. I've only seen a snake in the woods once after Thanksgiving and that was in a warmer year than this one.

I haven't even had time to look at Gary's sale items yet, but that's because I received several catalogs in the mail yesterday and was looking at them. I don't "need" any more tomato seeds, but I always find something at Totally Tomatoes that I want. This year is no exception. : )

Dawn

Dawn,
It is around 20 here and nice and calm this morning. There is a red flag wind warning though till 6 this evening. So I will be going outside to get started hopefully before it gets too high.

As I'm sure you have figured out I'm an auction addict also. There are bargains to be had you just have to be patient and it is like buying a used car you might be buying someones problems. That is the one thing I really don't like about online auctions. Many times you are bidding solely on the word or the seller. So far I've done ok. Won't know for sure about the tiller till I use it. It is a John Deere 3 point tiller that appears to have been used very little. It tills a path 54" wide and I'm guessing 6-8" max depth. I was bidding on 2 in the same auction. The other tilled a 60" swath and was an old highway dept tiller. So had been used a lot more. Was a lot heavier and I had some concerns if it might be too much for my current tractor. It also would go 10" deep. I want to use them mainly to mix in the leaves and straw so 4-6 inches is enough. I can always moldboard if I want to go deep.

When I bought my current tractor I had planned on buying a loader for it. In hindsight I didn't do enough research on Kubota tractors. I figured they would be like JD's and Internationals and fairly easy to buy loaders for. Not so. They changed styles and dimensions so much in the 90's that it is expensive to buy a loader for one. A loader for mine would cost a lot more than I gave for the tractor. I want to get a skid steer sometime. But while I'm looking and waiting for the one in my price range I decided to buy an older Massey-Harris with a loader. The loader is what I gave for it and the tractor. So will use it and see how it works. It belonged to an older gentleman who had farmed, custom cut and ran a small mechanics shop. I feel it will be ok. When I find something I feel it better I will trade up as they say.

I'm currently bidding on a 3 point straw bale chopper. If I would get it would also use it for leaves.

The reason I'm bidding so much now is this is the time that people and businesses sale their extra equipment. During the downtime. You won't see most of these items for sale from April through September. So you have to be ready when they show up. I also try to buy close enough to home I can pick them up and not have to pay freight. So that limits me some on what I bid on. Every time I buy another implement for my tractor I say I have everything I need and then just like with garden seeds you see one more thing you think would be handy to have. The other thing is everything I have is for sale except for my black cat and Noah's cat and dog. So what I have today may be gone in a month. Jay

Jay,

I saw your Red Flag Fire Warning early this morning when I looked at the NWS Active Watch and Warning Page. I think it likely y'all might have one tomorrow too. Even folks in some parts of OK probably need to be worried tomorrow because the wind will be so high and the humidity so low. I don't think it will be an issue in my county, but two weeks ago we had two very bad and very hard-too-control fires when the humidity was very, very high. The wind was very high, too, though which was the problem.

We were supposed to bottom out at about 29 degrees last night. When I saw frost forming on the vehicle windshields and grass around 8 p.m., I knew we'd go colder, which we did----down to 22 degrees.

It made me laugh when you said "everything I have is for sale...." (except the pets). A friend of ours runs a hugely successfuly backhoe and custom cutting/mowing business. He has every kind of equipment you can imagine, and lots of it. He's getting on up there in years....I believe he is in his 80s. A while back, he got sick and decided he was retiring and selling everything. He sold it all......and I suspect you can guess how this story will end.

He got well and began feeling really good again. He decided he was too young and healthy to sit in a rocking chair and enjoy his happy golden years. He started regretting that he'd sold off all his big, expensive "toys". So, he went out and bought all-new stuff! He's a happy camper again, since he's working all the time and he has so much work that he's hired some helpers. I hope when I'm in my 80s, I'm as energetic and busy as he is now.

Dawn

I've been eyeing Gary's website for some time now, and I received the e-mail, too, so I ordered a few things:

Hawaiian Currant
Porter
Riviera
Red Georgia
Regina's Yellow (bicolor)
Black Sea Man
Japanese Black Trifele

I also ordered some 10 and 7 gallon grow bags (10 each) and will order the 20 or 30 gallon later. Not all of them will be planted with tomatoes, but other veggies will be planted in them, too. My block of 40th Street will likely become a veggie allee. :>)

Susan

P.S. Jay, congratulations on your Boy Toys!

Susan,

Uh oh. Your "grow list" is starting to get long. If you don't watch it, you'll end up like a few of us here who freely admit we plant too many. : )

Really, though, it is hard to have too many tomatoes because they are so easy to preserve and you never have trouble giving away any extras, either!

Dawn

Hello to everyone on this forum. I have followed your conversations avidly for at least the past 18 mos.I just recently learned how to use the computer and type with one or two fingers so it takes me awhile to get something said. After reading okiedawn, seedmomma, jay and the rest of the group i realized i had very little to add and was amazed at all the knowledge you all brought to the table. I have learned so much fromk reading your blogs. I loved DAWNS STORY ABOUT HER NEIGHBOR shooting copperheads and seeing a cougar at the garden gate.I too had a cougar cross my back yard when i lived n.e. of arcadia. Also, we killed 18 copperheads in one night 3 years ago, so you see , i can relate.Now that i've introduced myself i'll get to my problem. AQ few months ago i moved to 6 acres just east of the Lazy E arena. I havent had much time with the move and all to do much gardening. I've planted a few blackberries and afew rasberries and bought an old troybilt horse to start preparing a garden. Heres the problem. I can't see the garden from the house. I picked this paticular spot because the former owner kept two mules and a horse in about a acre and a half and it has water and electricity and it's flat. The soil looks pretty good, a sandy loam although i havent checked it yet for NKP. mY QUESTION IS, am i going to have to put up an 8 ft. fence to keep deer and other critters out. Do deer covet garden vegetables. I've already been challenged by squirels and mocking birdsand i use the same methods on them that i do on copperheads and timber rattlers. Sorry to those of you who disagree but one summer i had 12 tomatoe plants ,not 20 ft. from my back door and i got 1 tomatoe that summer and that was because i covered it with a paper bag as a last resort. Enough is truly enough! Anyway,since i can't see the garden from the house and i've ordered 22 varieties of tomatoes from Totally tomatoes i'm starting to get concerned for next spring.Oh, and by the way, i don't have Bill Gates wallet. Any ideas anybody? OH AND BY THE WAY, i have a 130 pound Akita who would do more damage crashing through the garden chasing something so thats out.

Hi Telow,

Welcome to the forum. I'm glad you decided to post and talk with us so we'll know you're "out there". There's nothing wrong with reading and not posting, but I think it is more fun to join the party and start talking!

You already know from my frequent misadventures with animals that I am in an area with plentiful wildlife. Where I live, the deer will eat anything that is not fenced in and that's especially true with cool-season crops planted or transplanted when most of the surrounding natural grasslands are still full of dry, dormant vegetation. At that point, the deer will eat practically anything that's green.

For several years, we kept the deer out of the veggie garden with a 4' tall garden fence. They could have jumped it at any time, but they didn't for several years. Once they started breaching the shorter fence, we put up a 7' tall one and it has kept them out ever since.

I don't plant anything now unless I have fencing up to protect it from the deer (and the rabbits).

You probably could keep the deer out with several strands of electric fencing. If you go that route, have a couple of strands low enough to keep out the rabbits, skunks, possums and racoons too. And the coyotes. Coyotes love melons.

At our house, the deer like the garden vegetables much more than they like the native food choices. They have particular favorites, and their very favorite crop here seems to be okra plants and hollyhocks, but I've had them eat just about everything at one point or another.....broccoli, cauliflower, lettuce, carrots, cabbage, watermelons, zucchini (including the foliage), sunflowers (leaves, flowers, stems....they aren't picky), sweet potato foliage, beans, black-eyed pea plants, peppers, tomatoes, etc.

So, if you have deer in your area, save yourself some grief and fence your garden in whatever way you can. My fence is just metal T-posts and the bottom 3' is woven wire fencing and the top 4' is chicken wire. It keeps those darned deer out. Be sure the lower part of the fence has very small mesh to keep rabbits and voles out. It is not the prettiest fence in the world, but it does the job.

We try to peacefully coexist with all the wildlife around us to the extent that we can (we don't even shoot the deer, which likely explains the large herd that lives in our woods). However, we shoot all skunks roaming the yard (or in the chicken coop) during daylight hours, and shoot any venomous snake in the garden or yard. We leave them 10 acres of wild woodland to run around in and as long as they stay there and leave us alone, we leave them alone. We don't tolerate any animals raiding the garden. We try to run them off but if they keep coming back, we shoot or trap them. If we didn't have a good garden fence and a gun handy, we wouldn't get to eat any crops from our garden and the garden is for us, not for them.

I do put some food out for the wild animals in winter, but I put it far, far away from the garden and the house.

Good luck with your garden, and I hope you'll join our garden chats often.

Dawn

Hey there, Telow! Welcome to the forum and we hope you will enjoy it as much as we do.....heeheeheehee! We do have fun here, but we also get down to business when its time.

I'm one of the city dwellers here, smack dab close to being downtown OKC proper in one of the older areas and as you can probably tell from my posts, I'm learning the ABCs of growing tomatoes and vegetables. Aside from that I've been gardening for several years, with a focus on preserving the Monarch butterfly and other butterflies and moths that populate the state during the warmer times of the year. I also harbor a few critters myself, including 4 cats inside, and a couple outside strays that we care for. I love the sounds of an organic garden, birds chirping, hummers swooping and chattering, bees buzzing, and I do all I can to encourage them. I grow lots of native plants that feed the caterpillars of the butterflies and moths, and provide them with plenty of nectar to sip.

I wouldn't blame anyone for protecting their food crops at all! We have to do what we have to do to survive and altho nature is beautiful and I appreciate it, it can sometimes be cruel, too.

Anyway, hope you'll join in on the discussions.

Are you going to have a set up to start your seeds? I may start some inside and winter sow a few as well. I don't feel so bad about the number of tomatoe seeds I ordered now. But then Dawn probably order 472 varieties! LOL!

Susan

Thank you all for your kind welcome . As i said before i feel like i know you all from reading your comments these past few months . I'm outside Guthrie now but i used to live in down town Edmond where i had 2 greenhouses. I started the first one to start my own flowers and as you can imagine after i bought 2 six ft. heating mats i went berzerk. By the next year we built a much larger greenhouse and attached it to the house so when you opened the back door, you were standing in the greenhouse. Most of the floor was dirt or flagstone, but did include the concrete patio. Ihad a Lisbon lemon tree that would fill most peoples living room. It had lemons on it year round and was always in bloom on parts of the tree so when the back door was open the whole house smelled of citrus blossoms.I had oter citrusalso and have grown many other tropicals from seed.I've raised alot of crazy things but i havent had a veg. garden since i was a kid and that is why i finally decided to speak up.My problem was i had never heard of most of the tomatoes you guys talked about. It's taken me months to research some of the web sites youguys talked about.(which by the way) thank you all for posting these websites because i would never have found them without your help. The love of my life needs to check facebook. THANKS AGAIN Tomorrow is another day. til then

Telow welcome aboard. Don't hesitate to jump in and join the fun. Thanks for the compliment. After seeing my name in the same sentence with Seedmama and Okiedawn's I had to let my cap out a notch tonight when I went to put it on. LOL. A lot of good information here. What I've found is that what grows good elsewhere will struggle in our harsh conditions. So the best advice and opinions are those of growers in your area growing in similar growing conditions and soil. My garden is very sandy.

I hesitate to say much about animals as then I will start having problems. Not sure if it is the cats or what. But have only had problems one time with rabbits. Otherwise over the last 16 years haven't had many problems. Sounds like you have lots of experience growing things. You will do well with veggies. We all have our failures so don't let 1-2 bother you. I plan on growing a wider variety of veggies next year like I did before I started growing so many tomato plants 4-5 years ago. Tomatoes and peppers are 2 of my favorite crops. I fixed cowboy chili last weekend and used the ground roasted peppers I froze in it. Nothing tastes like the roasted peppers do. Jay

Hi Susanlynne...... to answeryour question about whether or not i have some way to start my seeds. the answer is no. After my kids were out of high school my wife finally agreed to move out of Edmond to the country where we were both raised. She wanted the kids to get the best schooling possible.Well anyway, we bought 11 acres n. e. of Arcadia that backed up to a 35 acre lake and we built my wifes dream house. A victorian home with all the do-dahs. The only thing we did'nt count on was getting older and the upkeep of painting an 8 gabled monstrosity plus the fact that what grew best was weeds and blackjacks. The fishing was great though. I often told people that i lived onan 11 acre rock with a layer of dust on it. There were some good areas to plant some things like dogwoods and sweet autumn clematis but i had to grow tomatoes in bales of hay or 5 gal. buckets. so now we are headed for Lowes or home depot to check out the fencing and try to figure out our cheapest route.Oh, about starting the seeds.....I'll figure something out.

Hello Telow!
Welcome to the forum! I'm glad you spoke up!
I have to tell you something really funny. As I began reading this very thread I was thinking to myself, I don't really have anything to contribute, what with all the experts. But I do try to post periodically just to have a presence, and I thought I might do it on this thread. So when I read my name in the same sentence as Jay and Dawn I nearly hurt myself laughing. I SSOOOOO do not belong in a category of gardening experts. I am decidedly enthusiastic, but nowhere near an expert.

This all brings up why I post sometimes when I have no real garden contribution. I have been reading this forum for a very long time, much longer than I've been registered on GW. I can remember many, many times when Dawn was the only one posting, and in my mind I referred to her as Prairie Dawn, visualizing something like Dances with Wolves. She was the only one here. Her posts covered all the facts I would have shared, plus a whole lot more, so I just didn't see the need to repeat what was already there. But as more contributers chimed in a real sense of community developed. The Oklahoma Gardening Forum is acknowledged as one of the busiest regional forums on GW. I believe it's because we have a real sense of community. That comes from not just having a few experts, but from having everyone participate and contribute in the way they best are able. I learn as much reading about others challenges (failures) as I do reading about successes. And besides all that it's just a nice group of people. So I hope we'll see more of you. And don't forget to get in on the Dixondale onion deal. Yum!

Here's the cheapest seed starting setup I've been able to create:
WalMart sells a 48" T8 shop light for less than $10. It includes chain and hooks for the fixture, but not hooks to go into your ceiling. If you want the pull chain on/off, you'll pay more. I didn't need it.

Home Depot sell Phillips brand T8 Alto light light bulbs. Choose the 6500K color temperature because it most closely duplicates the color spectrum of daylight. I think a 10 pack cost me $25, but you can also buy individual bulbs for a comparable per unit price. Please note that every HD I've every looked in sells the 6500K bulbs, but not one of them had a designated shelf space for them. That makes thems tricky to find, but be persistent.

You may want to consider a timer. Letting the seedlings rest in the dark is just as important as getting enough light. I have found this to be especially important with the strong bulbs I listed above. Relatively speaking I am of advanced age for a woman with such young children. I have found this causes a condition very closely related to the proverbial CRS, so I need a timer. You may not.

A small fan is an optional item you may or may not need. We'll be talking about the importance of air circulation and not overwatering soon enough. It's an annual topic.

That should get you started. If you like, you might want to start a new thread about starting seedlings under lights and we can all go into more detail there.

Welcome aboard!

Seedmama

hello seedmama, I just have to ask. Are the T8 bulbs you are talking about fit a florescent or do they fit an incandescent fixture. How many watts do they use and how many lumens do they put out?

Never mind Seedmama. I just reread your post and realized i was'nt thinking.I'll check home depot out and thank you for the heads up.About watering the seedlings i have always had good luck bottom watering them. Never had any problem with damp off. P.S. i would start another thread but i suspect i would be very lonly

sEEDMAMA i WENT TO LOWES A COUPLE OF HOURS AGO TO GET THEIR LANDSCAPE TIMBERS TO BUILD ME A DEER PROOF FENCE. The ones that arent perfectly straight they sell for a 1.97 apiece and they are not that crooked. My idea is to screw a short 2x4 to each one to get up to the 8 ft. height. Anyway, while the guy was loading them I walked down to the light bulb isle but did'nt see anything like you mentioned. Then i stoped one of their staff and ask where alot of the florescents bulbs were. He said isle 9 and low and behold, there they were. In stock. Right in front of my face. I can't thank you enough. With out your information I wouldn't have had a clue of what to look for and would have probably walked right on by THANK YOU

Telow,
You are very welcome. Thank YOU for letting me know that Lowe's carries them. I've only found them at Home Depot, so it's good to know we all have additional resources available. Best wishes on your projects!
Seedmama

I just went to Tomatofest's web sight for the first time. WOW! They DO have a few to choose from don't they. Maybe TOO many for the novice gardener (like me). Does anyone have a recommendation(s) for a good cooking tomato or other tasty tomatoes that grow well here in zone 7(a)? Thanks!

Does anyone have a recommendation(s) for a good cooking tomato or other tasty tomatoes that grow well here in zone 7(a)?

There might be a few in this list linked below.

Keith

Here is a link that might be useful: 2011 Grow list

Aikimikey,

There are many good tomatoes that do well here, and periodically we have threads here where everyone lists what they like. Sometimes it is a list of 'favorites', other times it is a list of 'what I am going to grow next year' and still other times it is like a review of how various tomatoes performed during the most recent growing season.

I've linked an old thread from last year where several of us listed tomatoes that are our favorites and which have grown well in previous years. I'll warn you, though, that there are thousands of tomato varieties and our favorites may vary somewhat on any given day.

For sauce tomatoes (and I've listed more on the linked thread), you cannot go wrong with San Marzano or Viva Italia, among others. For fresh tomatoes, there are just oodles and oodles of kinds.

If you want a hybrid, you can't miss with Goliath, Big Beef, Momotaro, Brandy Boy (a Burpee Exclusive) or Supersonic.

If you want an open-pollinated/heirloom type, there are lots, including Druzba (red), Black Krim or Black From Tula (black, which in tomato terms means maroonish-reddish-greenish), Traveler 76/Arkansas Traveler or Mortgage Lifter(pink), Dr. Wyche's Yellow or Lillian's (yellow), Nebraska Wedding (Orange), Cherokee Purple or Indian Stripe (purple), and Aunt Ruby's German Green or Green Giant (green-when-ripe types).

For bite-sized tomatoes, which may have the shapes of grapes, cherries or small pears, a few favorites are Black Cherry (black), Sungold or SunSugar(golden-orange), Rosalita or Sweet Treats (pink), Sweet Million or Sweet Hearts (red), Ildi (yellow), or Green Grape (green when ripe).

For tiny currant-sized tomatoes, we like Tess's Land Race Currant (mostly red, occasionally pinkish or yellowish), Coyote (an ivory to yellow one), Red Currant and Yellow Currant.

For sun-dried tomatoes (which really need to be dried in dehydrators here because of our humidity), Principe' Borghese.

For very early tomatoes and lots of them, Fourth of July, Bush Early Girl, Better Bush, Sophie's Choice or Bloody Butcher.

For long-keeping types to harvest in late fall and carry you into winter, Burpee Long-Keeper, Red October or Sunray.

I could go on forever.....that's a ton of great tomatoes out there, and a few real stinkers as well.

I didn't list any white tomatoes because in general I find them too mild flavored (Hint: in catalog language, the word 'mild' means there's not much flavor) and the only white I really like is Snow White/Super Snow White and it is more yellowish-ivory than white once it ripens.

I forgot bicolors----Big Rainbow, Green Zebra, Speckled Roman, Black Pineapple (aka Ananas Noire) and Berkeley Tie-Dye are great bicolors and there's many others.

If the number of tomatoes at Tomatofest is overwhelming, visit the site of Tomato Growers Supply Company (www.tomatogrowers.com). Their tomatoes are listed in categories like Early, Mid-Season, Late, etc. and also by color and by size. It makes it easier to wade through all the descriptions and compare them when you can see them in categories.

If you want someone else to "pick" them for you, go to Totally Tomatoes (www.totallytomatoes.com) and choose one of their collections like the Goliath Collection (which includes peppers).

Dawn

Here is a link that might be useful: Previous Thread On Favorite Tomato Varieties

Dawn.... you never cease to amaze me . Where do you find the time to do all that you do. You are an encyclopedia of knowledge and if you were not humble they couldn't find a hat big enough to fit your head lol.

Telow,

You flatter me. I'm just an ordinary old dirt gardener, although I do confess I am simply obessesed with gardening. It is an obsession that feeds (pun intended) upon itself because once you've eaten a few fresh-from-the-garden veggies or fruits, you want more, more, more. At least, that's how it is for us. I like staying busy, busy, busy but I do feel like I get a little lazier every year.

My spouse is not a gardener, but he is enormously supportive of all my gardening activities. He also is very pleased that my hobby involves staying home and playing in the dirt, because when I lived in the city (Fort Worth), my hobby was going to the mall and spending money.

I decided a long time ago that gardening was more than a hobby for me....it is a lifestyle. When I "have to" stay inside and clean house or do laundry or cook meals, I do it cheerfully, but there's a little cross-stitched sampler on my kitchen wall that says how I really feel about it, and it says "I'd Rather Be In The Garden".

Dawn

Telow - Dawn can't get a big head, she isn't big enough to carry the hat. LOL

Dawn - My friend got me a sign that says "Gardeners stay in their beds all day". Eventhough I am not gardening during this time of the year, I find many excuses to go outside several times each day. At least it isn't a long time until we can start seeds. Come on Spring!!!

I have read that there is a trend for the large seed distributers to only sell to the big guys, and they are not making seeds available to the smaller companies. I saw Little Lucy on the Osburne site so it is still out there and available for the big growers.

Carol,

I did see it on the Osborne site, but I don't think they ship to the USA any more, do they?

It wouldn't surprise me if some of the big seed wholesalers are trying to squeeze out the little guys, but I'd like to think that doesn't happen.

I've been eying the light shelf, the bag of soil-less mix, the seed packets and the flats and asking myself....when do I dare start? lol No, not yet, of course, but it is driving me crazy.

I worked outside on and off today and it was perfectly gorgeous. I think it was 74 degrees here with humidity around 20%. We are very dry, having had less than half our usual rainfall in the month of November. I need to turn on the soaker hoses and water the clay soil around the foundation tomorrow because the soil is super-dry there.

I turned the chickens loose in the potato bed, and they dug up a few small potatoes I missed back when I dug up the fall potatoes. I hurried to gather those before the chickens could peck holes in them. Since they soil is loose there, they were digging for bugs and also dust-bathing. It was just a bonus that they dug up the lost potatoes for me.

I'm still hoping maybe Little Lucy is missing from the Park Seed's website only because their wholesale seed order hasn't come in from overseas yet, and maybe they'll add it back. Or, maybe they dropped it during their financial troubles and now that they're under new ownership, maybe things will get back to normal and they'll soon offer it again.

Dawn

Dawn - The Osburne site that I was looking at was in Mt Vernon WA, but the smallest pack they sell of LL is $10.30 and I don't know if they sell to individuals anyway.

Yesterday I was digging some grass out of the end of my garden and found two potatoes. One I found with the shovel, but the other one looked OK. I remembered seeing a plant there which came up after I had dug all of the potatoes (I thought). The chickens were out and I could hardly dig because they were getting on the shovel of dirt before I could lift it out. They were grub hunting.

I usually start my seeds a couple of weeks after you do, but last year I think I actually planted summer crops in the ground before you did. We didn't get that last spring cold spell that got you.

I was thinking the other day that I needed to set up a planting calendar based (loosely) on the OSU dates. I know there are some Spring crops that I could put in earlier than I have been.

Here is a link that might be useful: Osborne

Carol,

Thanks for the link. They Osborne Seed company I remember is Canadian and stopped shipping to the USA quite some time ago, but it looks like the same company, so I guess they decided to open a branch in the USA. Did you notice their statement about Bejo Seed? I'd noticed that Bejo isn't placing their seed with as many distributors as they used to, and you can see it in how hard it is to find some of Randy Gardner's most recent releases like Mountain Magic. I've only seen it at 2 or 3 or 4 places.

Now that I know Osborne has a US sales/shipping facility, I'll have to check it out. However, they sell in such large quantities, I can't imagine I'd order something from them. It would have to be something I really, really want.

I could put in some crops earlier. I just have to be prepared to cover up everything the first week in May. If I knew it wouldn't be a bad wildfire year, I'd start things early. In a bad wildfire year, though, we're often gone a lot in Feb. and March, which makes it almost impossible for me to plant early and "know" for sure I'll be home to cover up plants before the temps drop too much after sunset. Some of those Feb.-Mar.-Apr. wildfires last for days and we stay out all night or very deeply into the night.

I'd love a nice, normal spring without all the wildfires and without the very late freezing nights. It's been so long since we had a normal year that I don't know if I remember what normal is like.

Our chance of snow here is dropping a little bit....from 30% early Tuesday to 20%. The holiday parade is Monday night and it is going to be cold, so yesterday I bought tons of those little "Hot Hands" handwarmers for all the firefighters and family members who'll be on our float. At least we likely won't be parading through town with a rain/snow mix falling. I hope.

Dawn

Aww man. I wish it could be nice weather for your parade.

Carol, I just feel really bad for all the kids who will, no doubt, be excited about the arrival of Santa in the parade, and the Christmas tree lighting and all that. Our high that day is supposed to be 45, so I expect temps will be dropping into the 30s when the parade starts and there will be some kids with cold fingers and toes.

Keith, I'm afraid to go back and read my 2011 Grow List from one whole month ago. It has changed a lot since then (sigh) and it is growing longer and longer which means the pressure is on to find a space to grow them all. I think I just about have the new version of the grow list completed, and maybe tomorrow while I'm watching OU beat Nebraska, I'll type up the new 2011 Grow List.

Dawn

Oh, yippee! I am really interesting in seeing V2 of everyone's grow lists. I know mine has changed, too! But, I'm just a scatterbrain who finds it truly a challenge to focus and stay on target. I hope this is just a part of the learning process.

Dawn, fortunately kids don't seem to "feel" the cold like we do. They'll be out sledding and playing when the temps and windchills are at arctic levels, and not be complaining at all when they're being entertained. I envy those days. Altho, I can tolerate the cold better than I can the sweltering humid heat, which just enervates me.

I think I'm going to work on an Excel database to track my tomatos and veggies this year. So I can get that started soon, too. I hope I can remember how to navigate Excel. You know, I worked for 40+ years, starting out with a manual typewriter and carbon copy paper, and ended up with working with a network computer that 2 years ago had all the bells and whistles - I'm know there are more now. But that is quite a gamut of machines over the years. Now, I feel like I've forgotten it all AND the new bells and whistles have zipped past me and left me eating dust and totally befuddled.

Susan

Susan, A database is a database, period. Over the years I have jumped from one to another fairly easily. The trick is in the terminalogy, I think. You just have to figure out what the software developer called it in their version. They just get easier and easier tho. I have thought that I would write a database for my gardening, but just never seem to get to it. Last night I was making a list of things I wanted to plant and deciding when I needed to start seeds inside, and again wished that I had written the database so I could just pull a report by date. It really would have some advantages, IF you kept it up to date.

Carol and Susan,
I don't know anything about excel databases but I do belong to another forum(non-gardening), that allows me to post to a personal blog. This allows me to post planting dates and other info including photos, moon phases from OFA, along with my personal thoughts and it is archived on a calander that highlights the days I posted. Here is an excerpt from a recent post.

The red morning glorys planted 11/21 began coming up yesterday morning. By this morning one of those lil piggies had already pushed it's way thru the press and seal plastic cover.

It never ceases to amaze me the energy of life stored in every seed, and the thrill to see the power it has to push thru the soil and begin the circle of life that produces the seed for the next season.

Keith

Susan, I just read you post again. Did you mean Excel or did you mean database. I think a spreadsheet would be cumbersome.

Oops! I meant spreadsheet. I've used Excel quite a lot in the past, and don't think it would be too cumbersome at all, Carol. I am just not sure how many new versions are out there since I used it, but I do pick up things rather quickly. I had to figure out things quickly. I haven't met a lawyer yet who would "WAIT! Til I figure this out!" At least I don't have to worry about that anymore....

Keith have you started your Red MGs already?????

Susan

Susan,
Keith have you started your Red MGs already?????

Yes, I plan on giving them as Christmas presents to go along with the Leaf Spirit Wall Pockets I ordered from Gardeners Supply.

Keith

You're such a nice guy, Keith! What a fantastic gift! I might be a long lost relative of yours I'm thinkin'. ;)

Those are gorgeous! I've always wanted to do some of my own leaf impression stepping stones or something like that. I have some great leaves in the garden to work with like Acanthus mollis and Tetrapanax. Best laid plans and all.

Susan

Dawn,

After going to the Tomatofest web-sight I was totally overwhelmed. What sort of plants should I try? Now I'm only slightly overwhelmed. Obviously I've hit upon a passion of yours. What a great list to start from. Thank you. Anyone who gets accused of bathing in tomatoes by her peers has built themselves a reputation of knowing their tomatoes. While I'm sure you don't actually "bath" in tomatoes, I'll wager that if you did... you'd know which ones would make the best bathwater! ha.

Seriously though, thank you so much ( and all the others who posted too ) for offering up your favorites. My first goal is to try plants that grow well here AND taste good (or store/can well). In the following years I'll get adventurous and try more varieties that are a little less main-stream but for now, I need to start small. I eventually hope to obtain a great heirloom and learn how to collect it's seeds from year to year. I know seeds are cheap, but then so am I :-)

I look forward to sharing with all of you in the years to come.

AikiMikey

AikiMikey - Welcome to the forum and we hope you will visit often. Yes, start small, the first week. [grin]

Stay with us and soon you will be digging up the lawn.

AikiMikey,

What kind of tomato flavor do you prefer? Do you like the ones that have some of that old-time tomato flavor with a bit of tanginess, or do you like the ones that have a really sweet flavor? Or, perhaps you want to grow both types? Also, how many plants to do intend to plant? Three? Five? Ten? Twenty? Tell me what kind you want to grow and I'll try to give a specific list that includes early, mid-season and late tomatoes so you'll have tomatoes throughout the growing season.

Dawn

Keith - Thanks for the link. Lots of great ideas there!

Soonergrandmom - We have moles in the back yard right now, so between them and the dogs digging trying to get "them" I already have a good start on having my lawn dug up (smile)

Dawn - I never expected THIS MUCH help. WOW! thanks. I sort of feel like the guy standing in the box-O-wine isle asking the wine expert what they recommend. "Well, there's Bordeaux, Burgundy, Pinot Noir, Chablis, Riesling... What do you prefer?" Wow. Uhhhh... I just came in for a box-O-wine. Never realized there were so MANY choices! - To answer your question I want a few to eat fresh (salads, sandwiches, etc) but the bulk of them I want for cooking and storage. Never really considered the dehydrating process. That could be useful.

Plants - I put in 20 last year. Lost them all. I blame it mostly on the 11" rain we got in June. I think they all drowned, but who knows.

Taste - we're back to the wine thing again. I've only had the Bigboy, Betterboys, a few cherries and the crud they sell in the grocery store. I know about the acidic ones, not so much about the "sweet" ones.

We have plenty of room and a moderate amount of time to garden. What I'm lacking (mostly:-) is education and experience. It seems like both of those often show up at the same time.

AikiMikey

AikiMikey,

Here's a few recommendations:

CHERRY TOMATOES: Sweet Million (65 DTM), SunGold (57 DTM), Black Cherry (65 DTM) If I could grow only one tomato variety, it would be Black Cherry.

FOR FRESH EATING:

Early Season: Early Girl (52 DTM), Glacier (58 DTM), Sophie's Choice (55 DTM) or Burpee's Fourth of July (49 DTM)

Mid-Season: Big Beef VFFNT (AAS winner in 1994) (73 DTM), Better Bush (68 DTM), Eva Purple Ball (70 DTM), Momotaro (74 DTM)

Late Season: Mortgage Lifter (85 DTM), Royal Hillbilly (85 DTM), Supersonic VF (79 DTM)

FOR COOKING:

Rutgers VFA (75 DTM)
Heinz 1439 VFA (70 DTM))
Santa Clara Canner (80 DTM))
Opalka (75 DTM)
Rocky (75 DTM)
San Marzano Redorta (75 DTM)
Viva Italia (75 DTM)

A couple of notes about the above.

---I believe seeds of all those varieties, except for Sophie's Choice and Fourth of July, are available from Tomato Grower's Supply Company.

---Sophie's Choice is available from Tomatofest and Remy's Sample Seed Shop, among other places.

---Fourth of July is available from Burpee Seed. I don't order it online because it is easy to find on the seedracks in my local Wal-Mart and it is not cost-effective to order just a couple of packets of seed from Burpee because shipping is high.

---About half of the varieties I listed above are available from Pinetree Garden Seed (superseeds.com) and they sell in smaller packets that are a bit less expensive than many other companies' packets with slightly larger seed counts.

---Sample Seed Shop is a new seed company owned/operated by a Garden Web member named Remy. Remy's packets are only $1.00 each. Like Pinetree Garden Seeds, she offers packets with a slightly smaller seed count per packet, which makes her seeds a great choice for someone wanting to experiment with several varieties that are new to them. This year, Remy has 6 or 7 of the varieties I listed above.

Finally, if you are feeling adventurous and want to try one of the dark-colored tomatoes often referred to as 'purple' or 'black', you can't go wrong with Black Krim, Black From Tula, Cherokee Purple, Indian Stripe, JD's Special C-Tex, Gary O Sena or Pruden's Purple. The dark-colored tomatoes have a superb, rich flavor and I could be happy growing nothing but the black/purple types.

One note about cooking tomatoes: I can a lot of tomatoes every year, along with a few pickles, peppers, jams and jellies and I don't necessarily grow as many cooking tomatoes as you'd think. Instead, I just cook/can whatever varieties have produced an abundant harvest at any given time. Our favorite home-canned salsas and sauces usually have a blend of 5 to 10 types of tomatoes with the mixture including both paste and slicer types. You can, in fact, make a superb sauce from just Sungold or Black Cherry tomatoes although I wouldn't try it if I didn't have a Roma tomato processing/straining machine to remove the skins and seeds.

Dawn

Dawn,
On my grow list for next year is Celebrity. I've heard others sing it's praises for years and am finally gonna try it. From what I've researched it is claimed to be Determinate of Semi Determinate. I think I remember you talking about Celebrity before. Can you tell me what kind of growth habit I can expect? Will they need a tall cage or can I use a shorter and more open cage? This year was my first time to grow a determinate,(Homestead) and the shorter more open cage worked just fine. Thanks,

Keith

Keith,

Although the two major categories of tomato with regards to growth type are Indeterminate and Determinate, there are a couple of other categories and Celebrity falls into one of them. Celebrity is a Semi-Determinate, which essentially means it is shorter than a standard indeterminate type and taller than the usual determinate.

In my garden, Celebrity usually tops out between 4 and 5 feet in height. I put it in a 4' or 5' cage and the size it gets is just the luck of the draw because I have tomato cages in all sizes. Celebrity has about the best disease-resistance package you can find in a variety that produces fruit with good flavor, although there's a handful of newer varieties with about the same disease resistance and equal or superior flavor. I think Celebrity is resistant to eight tomato diseases although I see it variously labeled as a VFNTA or VFNT, VFNTA or VFFNSTA. Celebrity was an AAS award winner in 1984 and I grew it in the 1980s through some point in the 2000s. It is a very consistent producer.

In more recent years, we have grown Big Beef, an AAS award winner in 1994 with a similar disease package and, to our taste buds, superior flavor, instead of Celebrity although sometimes I'll grow a Celebrity for old times' sake.

There's also a Bush Celebrity variety which is a shorter determinate form of Celebrity although it never seemed to catch on with home gardeners and I'm not sure if it is still available.

If Tomato Spotted Wilt Virus is an issue in your part of the state, a tomato variety similar to Celebrity but with resistance to TSWV is BHN444 or the more recently introduced BHN589.

Dawn

Aikeymikey - I missed what part of the state you're located in, but sometimes folks here grow different varieties based on their location and soil attributes depending on location, such as NE Oklahoma, SW Oklahoma, Central Oklahoma, etc. Not a lot of difference, I don't supposed, but some.

I am new to growing tomatos, too, so we can learn together. I grow my tomatos in containers, though. Last year, I grew four indeterminates: Rutgers VFN, Jet Star, Black Cherry, and Supersweet 100. Actually, I also grew a Burpee's Supersteak indet., too, but planted it in July for a fall crop, but only got a few (planted too late). I got a few from it - probably 10, but that's all. I also grew a Red Currant that produced very well. My Jet Star bit the dust around August. Wasn't that impressed with it, but may grow it again one day. Wasn't a good year for tomatos anyway. The rest thrived and I got lots of tomatos. Was especially impressed with the Rutgers, which was great for fresh eating and is supposed to be good for canning, which I have not attempted yet.

This year I am upping my container tomatos to around 30 and hopefully will get some canning done. I tried to select varieties that do well in containers, like determinates, dwarfs, and semi-indeterminates. Still, there are a few "must have" indeterminates on my list like the Black Cherry, Rutgers, Sungold, and a few others I don't recall right now. I have 20-30 gallon containers for the big guys. The others will grow in 5 to 10 gallon containers. I mix my own soil now, so that cuts down on the cost of potting mix.

I ordered seeds from Remy and Tomatofest........so far.

Welcome to the forum, and happy growing! In case you can't tell, the addiction is spreading!

Susan

Dawn, I'm getting a Roma Food Processor for Christmas. LOL My husband always asks what I want for Christmas and I always say, "Nothing". I was looking at those a few days ago, and I said, "Hey, here is what you can get me for Christmas." He said, "Order it". So I did. LOL

Carol,

That's great news! You just won't believe how quickly you can process tons and tons of tomatoes with one of these things. I think my Roma tomato strainer is the main reason I now make twice as many jars of salsa (80-100 jars per year) as I used to make (40-50 jars per year).

Dawn

I probably made 40-50 jars last year, and we haven't used much of it so far. I had one batch that was thin, and I have used more of it than the 'good' ones, because it is so handy to grab and use in spanish rice.

It isn't fun to stand over the boiling water to blanch all of those tomatoes, then peel them. I hope I like it as much as you do, but I doubt that I will make a hundred jars. In the first place, I don't plan to grow THAT MANY tomatoes. [grin]

I just got a notice that it had shipped, so I guess it will just sit in it's box and wait for spring.

Carol,

Most years, only some of Tim's coworkers get salsa for Christmas and the ones who don't get salsa get pickled bread and butter jalapenos or jalapeno pepper rings or some kind of cucumber pickles or jelly or jam. Clearly, though, the salsa is everyone's fave, so I was trying to make enough that all his coworkers will get salsa plus something else.

However, feeling "rich" with a huge stash of salsa in the jelly closet, I've already given a lot away to friends and for various local fundraisers, so now I'm worried I may have to break out the canning equipment this weekend and make a batch or two of salsa so we'll have enough to give a jar to all his coworkers for Christmas. I'll have a good "salsa jar count" this afternoon after I spend this morning filling up gift bags for all the members of our local VFD for tomorrow's holiday party. I think I'm going to need to make about 15 jars though, unless there's some more jars way back deep on the shelves that I've forgotten about.

I think next year, if I have a good tomato/pepper year and make a lot of salsa, I'll box up enough for Christmas and tape those boxes shut so I don't give away "too many" throughout the fall.

Obviously, everybody is getting plum jelly and/or spiced plum butter. As you can tell, I did a great deal of my "Christmas shopping" in the garden/yard/kitchen this summer so I have a jelly closet full of Christmas presents. I don't know what I'll do when we have a truly horrid drought year that leads to poor garden production (and, you never know, 2011 could be that year). I've gotten pretty used to having lots of produce to can, and a bad production year will make me cranky.

Dawn

Dawn, You would most likely find a source for anything you didn't grow. LOL

I don't do even close to what you do every year, but this year I did a lot of apples that I didn't expect to have. I have not tried to plant fruit trees because of the squirrel population here, but I think it is getting better. I don't know if someone is 'removing' them quietly, or if the animals have gotten better at catching them. It's not unusual to see a cat catch a young one.

My son and DIL took a vacation and came home to a 'clean' peach tree, but she got the apples just as they ripened and before the wildlife hit them. Her apples were like your plums, I just couldn't believe how many they got. I hope it happens every year, but next year I will be better prepared and do a lot more apple pie filling and Apple Pie Jam. I have enough apple butter and apple sauce for a long time.

I ordered my Roma from Weston and they had the extra screen deal. Have you used your other screens?

Susan, HI.
I'm also in OKC zone-7a.

Addiction... yes I see what you mean. Tomato fever is spreading faster than squash bugs in a pumpkin patch. Last week there were 4, today there's a Brazillion!

Last week I ordered seeds from Tomato Growers Supply. Thanks for the recommendation Dawn. For the tomatoes I got:
Black Cherry
Sweet Million
Beefmaster
Super Beefsteak
Grandma Mary's Paste
San Marzano

Since I'm experimenting with different veggies this year, I bought some of their peppers and even a package of eggplant seed too. Sure hope I can find a good receipt for eggplant this Summer. Sure hope I LIKE eggplant :-)

Susan - We'll have to compare notes this season to see what works best for newbies (although I'm not using pots)

I have an old Victorio Strainer No.200 that was willed to me several years ago. It still seems to be in very good condition so hopefully I can use it instead of buying a new Roma strainer everyone seems to be raving about. I even went on line (bless the internet) and found a "salsa" and a "pumpkin" strainer for the machine. That changed my cost from "nata" to about $30. Hopefully worth it this summer when ALL of these tomatoes begin producing. (ever the optimist :)