Ian, when you first transplant the lil' fellas, it takes a good 5 - 7 days of just sitting there before they decide to start growing again. Actually, they're re-establishing their root system, which is considered in some circles an advantage of doing it - the shock to the plant creates better roots. That you saw. I did all of mine, I dunno, 2 weeks ago? And they're just now starting to grow again. The ones I left, unseparated in a clump, are 3x the size.

Anyway, I'd sure keep taking them out side in the sun and breeze. That really toughens them up. I don't worry too much about temps in the 40's, we get that every night in June anyway, and the plants are all out there. In fact, unless they actually get below 32º, it isn't going to hurt the plant.

They should take off here shortly.

If the roots are no longer white and healthy, but brown, then you over-watered them.

I hope you'll find Cuor di Bue as great a 'mater as I have.

Thanks, David. I guess I need to relearn patience!

Ian

I wanted to make a note. I mix my own soil, and tried two different types of soil this year.

Mix #1 - plain: peat, perlite, composted pine fines. Tomatoes just sat there for a long time sulking (2 weeks, at least), but are finally greening up and starting to grow.

Mix #2 - deluxe: peat, perlite, composted pine fines, coir, moisture crystals, tiny bit of lime to sweeten soil, triple super phosphate, and osmocote. Tomatoes didn't blink, they took off growing and are an excellent size, much larger than those grown in the first mix.

There was a big difference in how well they transplanted into the two soil mixes, it suprised me. The second batch is much larger & well branched than the first. Mine are watered daily and outside every day that it goes above 60.

Cheers,
Michelle

ps. Mine were started 3/5 and transplanted around April 1.

Thats another good point as well - fertilizer. I don't like to use Miracle Grow potting soil for seedlings, because I don't know what I've got and what I need to add in that small pot. I use regular potting soil, and then water with 1 tablespoon / gallon Miracle Grow *as needed*, usually 4 or 5 times before they go out. With that system, when I get it just right, it's easy to tell because the plant takes off like a bandit the next day.

Ian, I also have nearly a ritualized soil choice. Actually, I'm afraid to change from Black Gold after a few near disasters using other brands.

Tomatoes are a little more forgiving with regards to consistent temperatures than some plants. However, most of our "hot house" varieties thrive on consistency. Heirlooms are just noted for their variability.

Temperature and light control is where I've had a few problems over the years. Interruption of growth sometimes takes awhile for the plants to overcome.

Northeast Colorado has certainly had its variable weather this year. Even in the protected environments of greenhouses, it must have been difficult to deal with the "whiplash" of sunshine and heat followed by storms.

digitS'

Photos. These are the same variety, started the same day. The one on the left, in my plain soil mix, just started to come out of their sulking and may be ready to transplant to a bigger pot in another week. The one on the right is already in the bigger pot and is much bigger overall. Probably 2x the size.

The results were extremely consistent for all the tomato seedlings that I have going.

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The big seedlings are by far the best I've ever started. :-) Ain't I learnt me something new through a-spearmintin' wit my 'maters.

Cheers,
Michelle

Okay, well after seeing your photos Michelle, I think I'm doing something wrong too then, because mine have been up for a month now, and most just have their first set of true leaves. I've been taking them outside for a few hours of sun each day that it's not too windy, and bottom watered them with a diluted liquid fertilizer the other day, but they seem to just be sitting there not really getting any bigger. I was worried that they would be too big before it was time to transplant outside, but instead I'm wondering if they will be big enough by the last frost date!

FYI, it's my first year to grow tomatoes from seed, so I'm open to any and all advice from you more experienced growers.

Bonnie

Wow, thanks all for jumping in (including you, Bonnie, for making me feel less alone!) I guess I'll have to run some controlled experiments next year. DW will think I've gone completely nuts.

Ian

Bonnie, keep in mind that mine are two months old. I will probably start them a couple weeks earlier next time around to see if I can produce gallon size plants by June 1. Then there is always the question of whether the smaller plants will transplant into the ground better...

Ian, When she thinks you've gone nuts, just go a little farther. That's what I do. :-)))

Cheers,
Michelle

A ditto on that Black Gold potting soil. After a few disasters trying to save money, thats what I use now as well. And all the professional greenhouses around here use it for their own stuff, although they sell other brands.

I use the Black Gold potting soil in all of my planters on the porch, but my seedlings were all started in Jiffy Seed Starting Mix. Maybe I should tranplant them into pots with regular potting soil now?

Bonnie

I say pot them up a size, and in regular potting soil, Bonnie. Bet itÂll give them a boost. And carefully remove the seed leaves and bury them all the way up to the first set of true leaves. And keep watering them with a dilute water soluble fertilizer. I also recommend putting them out all day any time itÂs up around or above 60, and even a little bit lower if the sunÂs out. The wind and sun will be good for them, and theyÂre gonna be out there on their own before too long anyway. You might keep them in or put them out in filtered sun or bright shade for a couple days right after you pot them up. Most of mine have or are just getting their second set of true leaves, so I really donÂt think youÂre that far behindÂif at all. And one other point! Last year I was looking for a couple more varieties than I had started, so I bought one in a gallon pot, and one in a small pot. Both of the store bought ones were bigger than the ones I started, and it almost looked like my tiny little plants werenÂt worth putting in the ground, but once they were planted, it wasnÂt long at all before they were ALL the same size, and without a scorecard, I really couldnÂt tell which had been which. In my experience, they love getting out into the ground and really take off once they do.

And, Ian, all that for you too! I sowed my seed on March 31st, and I just potted them up from the 2' pots they were started in to 3½" pots. I mostly potted them up a size so I could bury them deeper to help establish a bigger root system before they go out into my clay! If you think yours look a little too pale, I recommend you start watering with a water soluble fertilizer too. I use 20/20/20Âfor EVERYTHING! For seedlings I usually use it half strength, and if they seem to like that, I make it a little bit stronger.

IÂve never used Miracle Grow soilÂor Miracle Grow anything else, but if itÂs forming a crust on top when it drys, get something else. IÂve never used it either, but the Black Gold everybodyÂs talking about sounds good. I use Sunshine mix, since I can get it in bales, but itÂs available in smaller size bags too. ItÂs what everything was planted in at PaulinoÂs, and it always worked well. I use it for starting seeds, rooting cuttings, and everything else. But Digit and David both grow a LOT of stuff, and if they think Black Gold is good, thatÂs good enough for me. Ball mix is a good quality too, but I donÂt think you can usually find it in anything smaller than a bale.

Just think, for a minute, about all those YUMMY home grown tomatoes!
Skybird

Skybird, this reminds me a good deal of the cucumber trials . . .

Now, I cannot say they have the same formulas or anything . . .

I was goin' to say that I use the "Organic" Black Gold, so nanny nanny boo boo, but . . .

Here is a link that might be useful: Sungro products

A couple thoughts for Ian. You said you potted up to cups. Did you use an ice pick or a wood burner to put drainage holes in the bottom? No drainage will cause a problem with tomatoes. How much light are they getting? If they are cold or not getting adequate light they may stunt or be light green. I use organic Black Gold most years but I did have one bad year with it. I have also used Miracle Grow and had nice plants so I think water, light and temps are a bigger factor. I have transplanted the first 45 tomato plants this week and hoping it is going to get warmer after this weekend! Will do another 35 probably Sunday. Garlic looks good. Beets had to be replanted and peas are spotty coming up. Nanking Cherrys are starting to bloom and pears should star by the weekend with apples behind that. I don't think the apricots and peaches are even going to bloom this year. Way too cold of a spring and must have damaged the blossoms when forming.

LOL, Digit! It took me a while to figure out what you meant by the cucumber trialsÂtraumatic brain injury and all that jazzÂbut, no, I had no idea they were the same thing! I guess that means I have as good a taste as you and David do, huh?

I use the "numbered" Sunshine mixes, and maybe you could research the different ones and tell me what the differences are! (Click on Professional Products and then Sunshine Professional Peat-lite Mixes.) If you look at the ingredients for Sunshine mixes #1, #2, and #4, theyÂre identical! Last time I bought a bale I was told that #1 has some fertilizer in it (which didnÂt make any sense since itÂs cheaper) and #2 doesnÂtÂbut since #1 was the cheapest one, thatÂs the one I got. ThatÂs the one I use for potting up all the swap stuff and other misc. outdoor stuff I do around here. For houseplants and seed starting I use #5 which is the only one that has fine perlite in it, and itÂs more expensive, but since I donÂt use a whole lot of it, a bale lasts me 3 or 4 years. I HATE big chunks of white stuff in my soil! When I was a kid (Illinois), soil was BLACKÂand I still like it that wayÂat least when itÂs in pots, since IÂm never gonna get it that way out in the garden! Number 3 has vermiculite in it, and I donÂt use ANYTHING with vermiculite in it Âcause I rot absolutely everything I try to grow with vermiculite! And #4 appears to be exactly the same as 1 and 2, but itÂs more expensive! Who knows why!

Very interesting! I just went to the Scotts site to try to see whatÂs in Miracle Grow potting mixes, and the only thing they talk about is the fertilizer. If itÂs there, I sure couldnÂt find any list of ingredients for the mix itself! VERY interesting!

This year, BTW, IÂm absolutely CERTAIN my three varieties of cukes are different from each other!

Off to get another bale of #1 tomorrow,
Skybird

MargaretMT - I did poke holes in the bottom (I used a drill to put holes in a half-dozen cups at a time, worked well). Each cup got 3 or 4 holes just over 1/8" in diameter. The roots on the plants I tossed were white, so I think I didn't overwater too horrendously.

The tomatoes were in a S window that up until a couple of weeks ago (when sun got too high and trees leafed out) got 6-8 or more hours of direct sun a day. For the last three weeks or so they've gone outside for a full day's sun every decent day.

At this point I'm assuming the issues were a little too much water to start, and perhaps a lack of fertilizer (despite MiracleGrow's saying the soil would "feed the plants for 3 months"). That and just the standard shock. Next year I'll start them a little earlier and use a different mix - perhaps Black Gold plus fertilizer. If that doesn't work - maybe grow lights?

Thanks again all for your help!

Ian

Actually, given the volume of the pots and containers I fill every year, I bought a bale of the Sunshine #1 this year and 5 big sacks of the Black Gold. And I had a huge bag of vermiculite that I got locally at an end - of - season sale. For 20 odd big containers that I use for eggplant, I dumped the old stuff, shook out the roots, mixed in the vermiculite and a shovel of compost, and hope they'll retain moisture a bit better this summer.

But don't get me started on potting soil from the Evil Empire. That stuff varies so much from one year to another, same bag, same label, same great smiley yellow face, but some years it's great, and the next year it is, literally, toxic and nothing will grow.