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Black spot on potted rose

July 24, 2014

Hi All~ I just received 2 own root potted "Ivor's Rose" mail order today and while the plants are huge with lots of new growth the bottom third of the bush's leaves are covered with black spot. I have read that it's very stressful for plants to ship, especially in the height of summer. Should I worry or just let the rose grow and see what happens? The new growth is healthy looking. Ivor's Rose is supposed to be very resistant to black spot so I'm wondering if this may just be due to stress from shipping from FL to MA.
Thanks for any insight or suggestions.

Comments (128)
  • enchantedrose

    Hi Strawberry and Jim~
    It is raining here today and through the weekend :-( so very little gardening.

    Strawberry~Are your bands in pots still or have you planted them? Mine are still potted in large pots, do you think I should be getting them in the ground or can it wait a bit longer? I have buds on 5 of my HR potted bands and nice growth and pretty much no black spot except a tiny bit on Clair Matin. We still have some work to do remaking a raised bed where these will be planted, I'm hoping to get to this in the next week or so.
    I just finished planting a large order of bearded irises. I'll see how that works out since I haven't had the best of luck with these and rearranged some other plants so it's been busy.

    Jim~Have you thought about drift roses? .I have quite a few of these, they are small though, but flower continuously but sadly no fragrance. Mine are flowering well in about 3 hours of sun and have no black spot. Chamblee's does have these.
    Have you tried any of the Kordes roses? I read another post by you saying that other growers in PA. had trouble with them but mine are doing well with literally no care-no fertilizer, no pruning, no watering.

  • strawchicago

    Hi Sharon: My neighbor had just planted a dozen of drift-roses ... they are so cute !! She put pea-gravel in the hole ... pea-gravels are small chunks of dolomitic lime. That's for drainage in our heavy clay.

    My 5 bands of Souv. du President Lincoln, Madame Isaac Pereire, Heirloom, Jude the Obscure, Carding Mill were received July 18 and 19. That's only 2 weeks ago. I don't put them in the ground until the roots reach the bottom of the pot, sometimes in October.

    Heirloom band I received was in bad shape, completely wilted with dry leaves. I should had dunked that in a bucket to rinse off the salty fertilizer from the nursery. So I kept watering that, and it dropped all the wilted old leaves, and grew brand new ones. I'll be lucky to get one bloom on OGR like Madame Isaac Pereire. Folks report 3 years without bloom for that one, so it's worth experimenting.

    Bearded Iris? I love them. But my dozen varieties died in my wet bed during spring flood. Our heavy clay becomes mud and chokes out roots when it's wet. Sharon, I would love to see your bearded iris. Thanks for the great pics.

    The soil composition has MORE to do with black spots than the type of rose. Take very disease-resistant Austin rose Christopher Marlowe. Last year I induced BS by mulching him with cocoa mulch, sticky & retain moisture with pH 5.6, like alfalfa meal !! Then I made the BS go away by dumping my alkaline clay on top.

    Take Frederic Mistral, I posted many pics. of that rose being clean from spring until recently, when I dumped bagged cow manure. He became very pale, and breaking out in B.S. Will have to scrape that off today. I already see salt-damage (brown burns) on the leaves.

    THANK YOU, Sharon, for that excellent article on what type of ground cover to use, and types of DR roses like Buxom Beauty. Ground cover doesn't make a rose more BS either, see below Annie L. McDowell, picture taken today, with 3 types of ground cover: Petunia, purple alyssum, and snapdragon. That rose is 100% clean, I put lots of gypsum in the planting hole.

    Below link of Dave & Deb garden in Montana, zone 5a. They use white alyssum as ground cover, very pretty.

    Here is a link that might be useful: Dave & Deb using white alyssum as ground cover

    This post was edited by Strawberryhill on Sat, Aug 2, 14 at 11:58

  • jim1961 Zone 6a Central Pa.

    I like that white alyssum used as a groundcover! :-)

    I actually have a severe headache from researching roses...lol So I'm taking a break from that...
    Plus after reading several people had the same exact type of rose planted next to each other and one/some was highly BS resistant and others of the same exact type lost all leaves to BS... Planted next to eack other and receiving same sun, water, etc......:-/

    Strawbhill, here even with our native soil and nothing added Heirloom rose bands almost always do well the first season. And sometimes through the second season. After that's when the major BS troubles start...
    So if I added things to soil here I would not know really what was working or what was not the first season and sometimes the second...

    Roses Unlimited roses the BS troubles start in the first or second growing season...

    Same with other vendors that sell larger own root roses.

    So to save time from now I will not be purchasing roses from Heirloom Roses or any vendor with the smaller bands...

    I will spend more money but I will save time...lol

    Ok I'm taking a break for awhile... I'll still be reading your posts and commenting but I'm just not thinking of what roses I will get for alittle bit...lol

    This post was edited by jim1961 on Sat, Aug 2, 14 at 17:11

  • enchantedrose

    Hi Strawberry, thanks for the info. I'll leave these potted for now and plant at the end of September. They are growing nicely so far, although Sharifa Asma and Jude are slow at taking off, but all the others are coming along nicely. Even my little "Eden" is putting out some nice healthy new growth. Carding Mill has a bit of black spot, should I sprinkle a little gritty lime on the soil and see if this helps? There is lime in the pot plus powdered gypsum. I also have limestone chips and the lava rock that I could use on top instead. It's growing well but I want to control the bs before it gets out of hand.
    I hope I have some success with the irises, my beds aren't wet, most are raised and the others slope so don't hold a lot of excess moisture. I just need to find a way to shoe horn everything in. I think I went a wee bit overboard!! but hopefully I'll be rewarded in the spring :-)

    Jim~I can understand your burnout. There are so many roses and such differing opinions on all of them. It makes your head spin trying to digest it all. Good luck in your search whenever you're ready.


  • strawchicago

    Hi Jim: I agree, it's impossible to find the perfect rose for one's soil & climate. My climate is a 4-seasons: wet spring, dry & hot summer, and wet fall, plus brutal zone 5a winter. I have to adjust what's on top by the changing seasons: For wet seasons, I top with alkaline stuff, be it gritty lime or horse manure.

    For dry seasons, with my high pH 8.3 tap water, I'll top with acidic stuff like cracked corn, or I have to lower my water pH. The health and size of the root determines the health of the rose. I grew 40+ roses from band-size into 2-gallon rootballs. The disease-resistant roses like Blue Mist (multiflora) has solid 2-gallon rootball (very heavy). The BS-prone like Comte de Chambord has rootball 1/20 the size, small like alfalfa sprout.

    Putting gypsum in the planting hole helps with BS, because it makes the root becomes solid & woody & stronger to absorb nutrients. At first I thought my high pH alkaline clay, at 7.7 is enough to prevent BS .... Not so, I planted Gene Boerner right into my clay, and it's a BS fest, since its root can't expand in rock-hard clay.

    When the soil is too wet, roots decline. My healthiest rose Christopher Marlowe? I dug it up 4 times to fix the drainage, and made the hole 2.5 feet deep, plus putting horse manure at the bottom. When the soil is fluffy & alkaline, with enough calcium & potassium, that's when the root is healthiest. Same with Radio Times, I put 20+ banana peels at the bottom of the hole. Same with Annie L. McDowell, I dug a DEEP HOLE (2.5 feet), and put leaves at the bottom.

    The health of the hole determines the health of the plant. If the hole is fluffy & good drainage & alkaline, that's when roses are healthiest. Annie L. McDowell is not perfect, no rose is ever perfect if the soil is acidic. Annie broke out in B.S. when it was in a pot, topped with alfalfa meal (pH 5.7), plus constant rain, with acidic (pH 6.5) & poor drainage potting soil.

  • jim1961 Zone 6a Central Pa.

    Thomas Affleck has 11 flower buds and 3 blooms so I'm enjoying watching them open... :-)
    The darker pink color of the pinks is our favorites!


  • jim1961 Zone 6a Central Pa.

    I know I would benefit greatly here by using raised beds rather than messing with the native soil.
    Besides lots of rain we have a high water table here underground.
    I have a bed of 5 Double Knockouts which are doing fantastic! Blooming great and leaves look great from just applying compost SO that bed is ok and I will not make any changes. And best of all no disease...lol

    I now have our Mister Lincoln back into a large container because the blooms last much longer in the MG potting soil than they did when he was in the ground... Mister Lincoln got no Blackspot when he was in the ground...And Mister Lincoln does not seem to get BS in the container either so I'm happy with that...lol
    Different soils does not seem to effect Mister Lincoln just like they do not seem to effect the Double Knockouts..
    Same with the Carefree Sunshines...
    Which leads me to believe there are roses that will work here with my current conditions without change.

    But on the other hand I think most roses would benefit more from a raised bed under our conditions and would probably make rose growing easier...

    Because like you say Strawbhill roses with wet roots can decline... And our soil stays wet probably to wet even though it seems to have good drainage...

    And even though I feel some roses could still do well in our native soil.. Most probably would not...

    So for some roses I may have to create raised beds...

    I have a bed with one Double Knockout in out in the backyard. With flowers filling in all the empy spaces...lol
    That area is wetter than the rest of our property. But Double Knockout is doing great in that slop also and so did the Carefree Sunshines...Mister Lincoln was never planted in that area.
    All other roses have failed big time in that area so far...
    All Flowers are doing well in that wet area also..

    So probably I will have to create raised beds in certain areas so hopefully roses will thrive better without much BS ...

    This post was edited by jim1961 on Sat, Aug 2, 14 at 19:04

  • jim1961 Zone 6a Central Pa.

    Question for Strawbhill... I applied Tone (Gritty Lime under Thomas Affleck but rains keep washing it away SO do I keep re-applying it?

    Just took this pic...
    This is the bed of 5 Double Ko's. I tried growing 3 D-Ko's and 2 regular roses in between but no rose worked out so I ended up planting all D- Ko's...
    That's why you see a couple spaces that's where the 2 young D-Ko's are located and they are still smaller...

    This post was edited by jim1961 on Sat, Aug 2, 14 at 20:36

  • strawchicago

    Hi Sharon: Sorry that I didn't see your last post. With regard to your question "Carding Mill has a bit of black spot, should I sprinkle a little gritty lime? There is lime in the pot plus powdered gypsum. I also have limestone chips and the lava rock."

    I put gritty lime in previous pots since I forgot to put gypsum, but wimpy bands won't like such high pH. When it rains, the Encap compost granules with more nutrients is a better buffer than lime.

    Soluble fertilizer is recommended for bands. Molasses fits the bill if used with alkaline tap. Tap water has calcium hydroxide which binds with potassium & trace elements. Potassium is essential for blooming & disease-prevention. I have been fixing my tap water for last year's healthy pots, plus current 5-pots, with 1/4 cup molasses, 1/4 cup sulfate of potash, 1 and 1/2 cup water. Use 1 teaspoon of this mix per 1 gallon, to lower my tap pH. Molasses has NPK 3-1-5, plus trace elements. I use that every other day. In University Extension pots experiment, Organic NPK 6-6-6 beat fish emulsion, if used 3 times a week, in diluted doses.

    But if it rains, then I don't use the molasses & sulfate of potash ... that would make the soil too acidic and more prone to BS. A few red lava rocks is enough to supply potassium when rain water breaks it down, and some Milorganite NPK 5-2-0 on top helps preventing nitrogen loss during rain.

    Bolero is a BS-fest, after I topped that with the bagged cow manure from Menards. Same with last year's horse manure.. first time ever seeing mushrooms in that heap, and first time getting rust on roses. It's safer to use HEATED or DRY stuff like chicken manure, Milorganite, and cracked corn. Below is Carding Mill, picture taken today with 2 buds. Whitish spots are from Heirloom Roses' spraying.

    This post was edited by Strawberryhill on Sun, Aug 3, 14 at 7:36

  • jim1961 Zone 6a Central Pa.

    Strawbhill, you must of missed my posts.
    I applied Epsoma Gritty Lime pellets under Thomas Affleck and we got heavy rains which appeared to wash it away should I re-apply?

    The directions say once applied it lasts for 4 weeks and its slow release...
    So I'm not sure if it disolved or washed away...

    I scraped off all the horse manure...

  • strawchicago

    Hi Jim: I love that picture of Knock-out you took, great photography. I enjoy that every time this thread is loaded.

    I would re-apply again to neutralize rain pH of 5.6. I put 1 1/2 cup on Radio Times to the point of its leaves being pale. But it blooms very well, at least 20+ blooms despite being next to a tree, and not watered. Calcium helps with drought-tolerance. Gritty lime is useful if there's lots of rain (acidic pH), or with aggressive roots like Radio Times that secret acids, or at the end of heavy blooming (acid-phosphatase).

    But gritty lime isn't best for wimpy roots that can't acid-phosphatase and have to be spoon fed with soluble-fertilizer. I won't use that when alkaline tap water is being used .. the pH would be too high.

    Radio Times got nothing this year except 2 applications of dry chicken manure NPK 5-3-2, two application of soluble sulfate of potash, and lots of gritty lime. It has only 3 leaves of very minor B.S. (tiny dots) on the bottom. The rest is clean.

    The B.S. from the bagged cow manure is different, much larger spots plus leaves become yellow. Half of Bolero bush is affected, this is the 1st time Bolero gets B.S. in 3 years. My roses far away are NOT affected. Will scoop up that cow manure and trash it. Last week I cleaned out the cow manure from Stephen Big Purple and it looks good now, see picture taken today:

    This post was edited by Strawberryhill on Sat, Aug 2, 14 at 22:05

  • jim1961 Zone 6a Central Pa.

    I re-applied Gritty Lime...

    That's a darker nice color of bloom on Stephen Big Purple.. Nice!

    I think every rose we ever had here bloomed well in our native soil.
    No slackers in that department. Most grew well too...
    So can't complain much about growth either...

    Just that blasted blackspot...lol

    This rose was planted in the wettest part of our backyard. It still grew and bloomed well but fell to BS.
    A Double Ko is in its exact location right now and doing very well.


    Mister Lincoln did well in the ground except blooms fell off the bush to fast... ML was getting 13 hours of sun which may of been the reason why...lol
    Thomas Affleck is planted there now and his blooms fall off fairly quickly also...


    First few months I grew Mister Lincoln in a large container when I first got him. This was a Heirloom rose baby band I got in May SO you see he surely loves MG potting mix...lol

    Mister Lincoln:

    Livin Easy from RU in its first season...


    Outta the blue and Livin Easy:


    This is a Living Easy from RU in its second growing season... It grew very fast here.... But the next year it lost all its leaves...


    Sunrise at Heirloom also bloomed very well..

    This here is a rose that was here when I moved into our house in 1995... Later I dug it out and my mom transplanted it at her house. This pic was taken at my moms. I dug out rose in 2007...Wish I would of kept it now....
    I have no idea what kind it is...? I do know it bloomed solid like that with no fertilizer when it was here...
    It gets no fertilizer at my moms either... Very little Blackspot....No fragrance

    Took this pic last fall out our bathroom window:

    This post was edited by jim1961 on Sat, Aug 2, 14 at 23:27

  • strawchicago

    Hi Jim: Wow! I enjoy all the pictures you posted, esp. the last two. I wish folks would grow more roses like that red one ... so cheerful. Jim, you have the best view ever, so scenic, lovely with the mountains. I don't have the mountains here, except my tall trees. Something about the mountains with trees that is so cozy !!

    After filling 3 yard-waste bags with heavy roses canes this spring, I'm convinced that roses require far more calcium to make those canes than tomatoes (only 1 light bag). Radio Times gain a BIG GROWTH spurt after my giving it gritty lime. And roses with gypsum in the planting hole, or many layers of piled-up horse manure (with lime) are cleanest in my garden. From eHow, calcium is the second most important nutrient for plants.

    For Sharon: For hot & dry weather, here is a comparison between Pennington Alaska tea NPK 4-6-6, versus using Molasses NPK 3-2-5, plus sulfate of potash.

    1) Molasses has zero salt, plus high in iron, 1 TBS has 15% iron, 10% calcium, and 20% potassium. Iron helps bands to grow faster. Potassium & calcium in 2:1 ratio stimulates the best root growth. I see faster growth with Molasses as soluble fertilizer for bands in hot & dry weather. Draw back: eHow stated that molasses promotes fungal growth in compost, so I won't use it when the weather is wet & rainy. However, Kelp4less put dry molasses in their soluble fertilizer to promote mycorrhyzal fungal .. that's the fungi that helps with phosphorus-uptake for blooming. I see soluble molasses at root zone as beneficial, but molasses on the soil-surface as feeding black spots, such as molasses in alfalfa pellets that are scattered on the ground.

    2) Pennington tea NPK 4-6-6 has Kelp Meal, was effective in making my tomato's leaves dark-green. Draw back? Kelp has salt. Its high phosphorus ratio would be useful for stingy roses. I tested both molasses and Pennington tea on my recent 5 bands, and I see faster growth spurt with molasses/sulfate of potash, most likely from the low-salt & high iron. For stingy roses, Pennington tea works well in promoting blooms.

    The 1st year I put alfalfa meal under horse manure: clean but too much foliage, and very few blooms. My next experiment is alfalfa hay under gritty lime: gritty lime on top would suppress fungal germination, and alfalfa below would promote more leaves.

    Alfalfa Hay is better than alfalfa-meal for my clay, less glue up. Plus hay is cheaper than meal. Most likely I mix that with top soil to winterize my roses, since it takes longer for hay to break down for spring-flush. I learn than from GERDA with the best garden in HMF. She's in Russia.

    Alfalfa meal has a high percentage of calcium. See below link: its calcium content is 1.25%, compare to 0.23% phosphorus. That's 5.4 times more calcium than phosphorus. Alfalfa meal NPK is 2-1-2, which means 2 part nitrogen, 1 phosphorus, 2 part potassium, and 5.4 part calcium.

    See below Liv Tyler rose as gallon size, I put too much alfalfa meal in the planting hole: vigorous growth, too much foliage (but clean), and zero bloom. Some sites report alfalfa meal NPK to be 5-1-2, that's more like it.

    Here is a link that might be useful: Calcium content of alfalfa meal

    This post was edited by Strawberryhill on Sun, Aug 3, 14 at 9:20

  • strawchicago

    Hi Jim: I tried to locate the identity of the mystery red rose in your previous pics ... the one at your Mom's house. It looks like a multiflora or polyantha. Some polyanthas have multiflora parentage, with SURFACE cluster-root, which can handle acidic, wet & poor drainage clay.

    Tammy in TN with very acidic clay grows the 7-dwarfs series sold at Burlington roses. They are compact & polyantha roses. Their leaves are small & similar to the red-bush at your Mom. See below link for "Doc" rose in HMF:

    Here is a link that might be useful: Doc rose in 7 Dwarfs-series sold at Burlington

  • strawchicago

    I got Baby Fauraux, a polyantha from Burlington. It's small & compact with shallow roots ... smells amazing (spicy yummy, great scent). It HATED my alkaline clay, was pale & only bloom when there's tons of rain.

    See link for pic. of the next dwarf in the 7-dwarfs-roses sold at Burlington for $11 per band. It's "Dopey" with cluster-red blooms & small leaves similar to your mystery red-rose:

    Here is a link that might be useful: Dopey rose in the 7-Dwarfs series

    This post was edited by Strawberryhill on Sun, Aug 3, 14 at 9:08

  • strawchicago

    Excellenz von Schubert, or EVS, has cluster-blooms & small leaves, and VERY DISEASE RESISTANT. I put an ungodly amount of sulfur, tons of acidic pine bark, plus give it grapefruit, lemon juice and NOT a speck of BS on that one. I have the rain-spout pours directly on my EVS, since I know its cluster-root can handle wetness.

    See below link for EVS in HMF. Cluster-blooming & small leaves & preference for wet & acidic clay ... are indicative of multiflora parentage. The polyanthas with violet & blue colors often have multiflora parentage.

    Here is a link that might be useful: Excellenz von Schubert rose in HMF

    This post was edited by Strawberryhill on Sun, Aug 3, 14 at 9:14

  • strawchicago

    Here's another polyantha, "Gloria Mundi" sold at Burlington. Bright orange, with small leaves very much like the disease-resistant Annie L. McDowell.

    Here is a link that might be useful: Gloria Mundi polyantha in HMF

  • strawchicago

    Here's Grumpy rose in the 7-dwarfs series, grown by Tammy in very acidic clay & high-rain TN:

    Here is a link that might be useful: Grumpy rose in 7-dwarfs series

  • strawchicago

    Here's Heinrich Karsch, polyantha sold at Burlington. Cluster-blooms & small leaves. It's my dream rose, if I can fix my soil to be acidic for the violet color to show through.

    Here is a link that might be useful: Heinrich Karsch polyantha in cold zone

  • strawchicago

    Here's "Sleepy rose" in the 7-dwarfs series. Burlington roses ships roses in medium-flat-rate box, so it's the same price shipping for 6 roses versus lesser amount.

    Here is a link that might be useful: Sleepy rose in the 7-dwarfs series

  • strawchicago

    Here's Verdun, red polyantha, and Seil's most-blooms rose & sold at Burlington. Similar to your "mystery-red" rose with cluster blooms & small leaves:

    Here is a link that might be useful: Verdun rose in HMF

  • strawchicago

    Hi Jim: Here's a pic. in HMF that shows the blooms of 6 dwarfs in the 7-dwarfs-rose-series. 3 of them are red & cluster blooming with small leaves. They look similar to your "mystery-red-rose".

    Here is a link that might be useful: Blooms of 6 dwarfs in the 7-dwarfs-rose-series

  • strawchicago

    Finally located "Happy rose" in the 7-dwarfs series. It's red, sold as "Alberich rose", closest match to your "mystery red rose". See below:

    Here is a link that might be useful: Happy in the 7-dwarfs-rose-series

  • strawchicago

    Here's "Bashful rose" in the 7-dwarfs series. My experience with polyantha & multiflora rose? Require lots of rain & wetness to bloom. My Blue Mist is very disease-resistant, but blooms best in wet spring and wet fall ... always clean while others have BS.

    Here is a link that might be useful: Bashful rose

  • strawchicago

    Last is "Sneezy" of 7-dwarfs-series.

    Here is a link that might be useful: Sneezy rose

  • strawchicago

    Jim: Found another match for your "Mystery red rose", it might be Miss Edith Cavell, since I found an extremely pale pic. of that grown in alkaline soil .. see below link:

    Burlington sells Miss Edith Cavell, also Orange Miss Edith Cavell. I once asked Burling: "What's your most beautiful bush besides "Blue Mist"? Here's her reply from her nursery in CA of 800+ roses: "Of the roses that you have listed, I favor the following due to repeat and plentiful blooms: Too Cute, , San Francisco Sunset, , Alfalfa, Anda, Petite Francoise, Britannia, Verdun, Heinrich Karsch, Orange Miss Edith Cavell"

    She also sells Baptist La Faye, a multiflora/polyantha that prefers acidic soil. Polyantha/multiflora like Blue Mist can be stunning & beautiful when in full blooms, see below my Blue Mist when it was band-size in a pot:

    Here is a link that might be useful: Miss Edith Cavell polyantha in HMF

    This post was edited by Strawberryhill on Sun, Aug 3, 14 at 10:55

  • jim1961 Zone 6a Central Pa.

    Our mystery rose: Our neighbor said it was here when she moved into her house next door in 1975... We moved into our house in 1995 20 years later. So the rose is quite old...
    40+ years old now...lol

    I will have to take the time later to completely read over all your posts Strawbhill...

    Guess what? It rained hard again last night so my re-applied application of Gritty Lime got awful wet...lol

    It suppose to rain again today SO should I re-appply the Gritty Lime maybe tomorrow? Weather looks clear for awhile after today...
    I should of looked at our weather forecast yesterday...lol

  • strawchicago

    Hi Jim: I would wait to see how pale your rose become ... too much gritty lime can raise the pH, and less blooms.

    I was looking through the polyanthas that Burling offers. There's Fairy Queen, cluster-red-blooms. I'm happy with Marie Pavie & Marie Daly being disease resistant in my garden (both are almost thornless & fragrant). Here's a comment on Fairy Queen in HMF:

    "This is a wonderful rose, always full of beautiful blooms. Very resistant to diseases. Great for any garden area that you want to fill in with a lot of bright color."

    The more I research, the more I notice polyantha roses with multiflora-parentage are best for acidic & wet & poor drainage clay. Jean, or Harbor Rose, in acidic soil and high-rain PNW grows lots of polyanthas from Burlington roses.

    Here is a link that might be useful: Fairy Queen polyantha in HMF

  • strawchicago

    Burlington roses sells this unique orange & fragrant polyantha "Sunshine", also Sweet Chariot, a lavender & fragrant polyantha. Seeing how clean Annie L. McDowell is, makes me tempted to get more polyanthas.

    Here is a link that might be useful: Fragrant, orange polyantha

  • strawchicago

    Thanks to Jim's "mystery-red-rose", I found a bunch of very disease-resistant polyanthas like "Sweet Pea" sold at Burlington Roses. I'm getting sick of black spots with my rain-barrel water.

    Here's a comment in HMF about Sweet Pea polyantha "This rose needs no spraying at all. I live where it's very humid and have never seen bs or fungal issues. Leave her be and she'll appreciate it. Of course you should probably fertilize once in a while though."

    Here is a link that might be useful: Sweet pea polyantha sold by Burlington

  • strawchicago

    I love my Marie Pavie polyantha. I never water it, and fertilize only once a year. It's nearly thornless & perfumes my garden. Robert Neil Rippetoe in his sandy & 100 degrees CA garden also recommends polyantha "Leonie Lamesch". It has multiflora parent Aglaia. Here's a comment in HMF about Leonie Lamesch:

    "I can't kill this rose! I have it in a whiskey barrel that stopped draining right around the time it started to rain for 40 days and 40 nights; it took about 2 months before I could handle it and Leonie just shrugged it all off. The deer have taken all the leaves off on more than 1 occasion and it just grows more and will even flower while doing it."

    Here is a link that might be useful: Leonie Lamesch polyantha

  • jim1961 Zone 6a Central Pa.

    Did you notice that the rose Dopey had Blackspot in that pic? I look at leaves in pics more than the bloom itself...lol

    Excellenz von Schubert is a climber and probably too big for here...

    Pics of Gloria Mundi on HMF show tons of BS on leaves in a pic I seen.

    I'll check out the other roses you posted a bit later...

  • jim1961 Zone 6a Central Pa.

    Mystery rose: You mentioned it might be Miss Edith Cavell polyantha. HMF says that rose only grows to 2 ft...
    Mystery Rose is like 7-8 ft high...

    Fairy Queen is a nice colorful rose! Very nice!

    That Fragrant, orange polyantha is very nice too!

    Sweet Pea is a real nice color but HMF states the blooms are only 1.25 inches in size. They look bigger than that in the pics?

    We won't be trying any light colored pink roses as we prefer the darker pinks. And no more red roses because of all the red Double Ko's we have...lol

    I might try two light colored roses but that will be it because of our insect problems... 3 inch plus bloom size though... I'm looking at trying two Prarie Harvest roses.
    We have a bed with one red Double Ko in it. I'm thinking of placing a Prarie Harvest on each side of the Ko...

    I may look into the Drift Roses but only if they grow low to the ground. Might use a low growing rose in front of a larger rose bush...????

    Too much for me to process at one time...lol...Getting my rose headache again...lol

    This post was edited by jim1961 on Sun, Aug 3, 14 at 18:52

  • strawchicago

    Hi Jim: That's funny, "rose headache" ... I have a "BS or blackspot headache" on a few roses. I decide NOT to scrape off the cow manure. I'm waiting for the rain, but it hasn't come yet. For more than a week the weather forecast says it's going to rain everyday, but it hasn't.

    Your mystery rose is a rare one .. might be possible to get a baby-plant for yourself?? My Blue Mist root ball was so big, I should had chopped it into halves when I took it out of the pot, to make 2 plants.

    The cow manure is BAD, so is the "organic rose-food" that was given to me. It's a white bottle, with some brown liquid inside ... looks like molasses, but didn't smell like it. It could be just vinegar and diluted molasses. I should had trashed that liquid-food away, but I "just had to experiment".

    I love your bush-shot of "Out the Blue", and what's the names of the last 2 pictures you added of the shiny leaves, and the dark pink rose bush? Mine EVS (excellenz von Schubert) gets only 4 hours of sun, almost thornless, and smells great. It's 2' x 2' in its second year. Below is a bush-shot of Excellenz von Schubert that Seaweed in southern CA sent to me earlier this year:

  • strawchicago

    Hi Jim: Thanks for giving me the height of the Mystery rose as 7' tall. It might be "My Stars" rose, almost thornless. see link below. Here's the comment made by Paul Barden in HMF: "The plant in this photo is 6 feet tall, 7 feet across and is four years old from a cutting in a band pot! This is one of the BEST garden shrubs I have ever grown: rounded, full foliage, no disease and bountiful bloom. Highly recommended."

    I grew "Gina's rose", a sister of "My Stars" but darker color. My Gina's Rose is thornless & very DR, see picture below. See link below for "My Stars" as being 7' tall:

    Here is a link that might be useful: My Stars rose bred by Ralph Moore in HMF

  • jim1961 Zone 6a Central Pa.

    I have compost around our Double Ko roses. Outside the dripline of the bushes I still have shredded wood mulch.
    I decided today to remove more of the wood mulch because in the fall I'm going to spread compost over the entire bed.
    I'm not going to buy anymore wood mulch (keeps our soil to wet here)
    Anyhow while removing the mulch in areas that do not get disturbed there was white strands of fungi under the mulch. Strands were wrapped around the mulch chips...
    A good or a bad fungi???

    Livin Easy and outta the Blue leaves were shiny...

    Somewhere I have a close up pic of Mystery roses bloom...

    Found it! Close up of Mysery roses blooms...


    This post was edited by jim1961 on Sun, Aug 3, 14 at 23:27

  • jim1961 Zone 6a Central Pa.

    Took this pic at 9:35am this morning. Notice dew still on roses. Dew started forming about 10:30pm last night so these leaves have been wet for 11 hours so far...
    But this is Mister Lincoln and for whatever reason he is Blackspot resistant here and the water doesn't bother him being on the leaves that long under Blackspot pressure...

  • strawchicago

    Hi Jim: Thanks for posting that close-up of "Mystery-red-rose". The leaves and blooms are perfect match to "My Stars" rose, bred by Ralph Moore.

    Your Mister Lincoln's leaves is described by HMF as "Matte, dark green, leathery foliage." It's looks like the "leathery" leaves on my Crimson Glory, very BS-resistant here ... that one loves all-week rain. Seems like the more rain, the healthier Crimson Glory is.

    I did advanced search in HMF under "Habit", then under "Leathery leaves" ... lots of Gallica showed up, see link below. In my garden, either very thick & glossy foliage, or matte & leathery leaves are most disease-resistant. The thickest leaves in my garden belong to Kordes Flower Carpet, next is Annie L. McDowell & EVS. The thin leaves like Count de Chambord is most wimpy and BS-fest.

    Here is a link that might be useful: Leathery leaves roses in HMF

  • jim1961 Zone 6a Central Pa.

    Glossy leaves never made a difference here with BS so far but I only tried 2 roses with glossy leaves. Lincolns leaves are leathery.
    BUT Mister Lincoln is BS and Mildew prone in many areas of the country...
    So leads me to believe there must be another reason why ML is BS and PM resistant here...

    Actually I left out one detail about the Mystery Rose..
    The blooms are only 1.5 inch to 2 inches...
    HMF states Ralph Moores rose My Stars has 3" blooms...
    So probably not it...

    I had a decent amount of Aphids on our Mister Lincoln last couple of weeks. Aphids do not hurt much here so I usually just let them go.
    But anyhow after watching that video about Brewers Yeast that guy mentioned about laying bananas peels at the foot of the roses and that will chase away Aphids.
    I've been experimenting for awhile now with that idea but I can honestly say that does not work here at all... lol
    Even the Brewers Yeast experiment is a bust here... I did not see much approvement to warrant using it... So I'll just finish out the jar by taking it myself as it does give me energy...

    Another thing I'm experimenting with is Marigolds... I have Marigolds planted throughout the Double Ko bed and some around Thomas Affleck. I usually have moderate to major rose slug (Sawfly) damage on our rose leaves... This year we hardly have any damage on the leaves of roses that have Marigolds planted near the bushes.
    Mister Lincoln has moderate rose slug damage but he is in a container with NO Marigolds around or near him...
    So next year I will plant Blue Petunias instead of Marigolds and see what happens...
    Does it work or is it just a fluke??? I don't know...lol

    (Just took this pic a few minutes ago...)


    This post was edited by jim1961 on Mon, Aug 4, 14 at 17:32

  • strawchicago

    Lovely garden, Jim! Yellow looks good with red knock-outs. You are right about that Mystery rose: it's smaller blooms in cluster, versus big-singular bloom in "My Stars".

    You are right on Marigolds that attract rose slugs. Field Roebuck in Texas wrote in his book about roses that marigolds are spider-mites magnets... perhaps they are rose-slugs magnets also.

    I stay away from high nitrogen fertilizer, since it promotes aphids. One of my recent experiment of putting sunflower oil in the water: tons of aphids exploding on Rose du Roi. They like that oily stuff.

    Surprisingly my pots do much better with my fixing alkaline-tap with molasses & gypsum & sulfate of potash than with rain water alone. Roses in pots grew well last year with that stuff. This year I skip the gypsum in that soluble-fertilizer, since I already put gypsum in the potting soil. Below is 6-months old Yves seedling grew from a rose seed, fertilized with that soluble, it's 100% clean.

    I get the idea from the soy-bean farm-report that sulfate of potash and lime pellets beat fungicides in yield. I'm convinced that sufficient potassium and calcium is the key to stronger & thicker leaves to fight diseases. Unfortunately as the pH drops, all 3 nutrients go down: less bacteria to fix nitrogen in soil, and less calcium and potassium available.

  • jim1961 Zone 6a Central Pa.

    I'm using Gardenvile Sea Tea on Mister Lincoln. I feed him weekly in that container. Feeding every two weeks did not seem like enough so changed to weekly... I get aphids on roses I never even fertilized except for the compost. lol

    You misunderstood Strawbhill... Every year since 2007 we have been getting moderate damage to all our roses from Rose Slugs...

    This year I planted the Marigolds and for the first time we hardly have any damage on most all our roses that have Marigolds planted next to them
    Mister Lincoln has bad damage from rose slugs but he has NO Marigolds near him.
    So it appears that Marigolds are repelling rose slugs...

    I just contacted David Zlesak from the University Of Wisconsin. Coordinator of the Northern Earth-Kind® Rose Trials (purpose is to identify well-adapted, low maintenance landscape roses for there northern Midwest region).
    Anyhow David Zlesak has studied Blackspot for many years and uses scientific equipment and information.
    I asked him some questions on Blackspot and I hope he gets back to me...

    Interesting roses I just seen. They are from Kordes and tsome get 10-18 inches high and spread 36 inches...
    I will look into these to see if anyone is selling them...
    Ever hear of these?

    I looked at other websites and they claim height can be 2ft so I'm confused...


    Here is a link that might be useful: Kordes roses

    This post was edited by jim1961 on Mon, Aug 4, 14 at 20:04

  • enchantedrose

    Hi Jim and Strawberry~I'm still reading just not posting as much.

    Jim~I love your theory on marigolds. I would love to plant some but the garden slugs eat them down to nothing overnight and we have plenty of garden slugs!! I think I might have rose slugs though, something is definitely munching away at my roses leaves although I haven't seen any of the nasty little critters. I also have what I believe is anthracnose now!! the battle seems to forever rage on! Any suggestions on control besides the garden almanac of destroying ALL infected plants, lol, if I followed their advice I wouldn't have any roses left.
    I have seen pics of the Kordes Vigorosa roses, very pretty. They also have the veranda series which has one that looks just like Eden Rose (pic from Palentine) that is on my buy list for next year... I know another JB and Thrips magnet but so pretty. These are listed as similar size range but Palentine lists as 2-3 feet for either series, Chamblee's list at 2 feet so I'm not sure where the 10-18 inch size comes from.

    Strawberry~ How do you keep your roses so pest free? It seems that you have little to no leaf damage from hungry marauders!!
    Also my munstead wood is covered in black spot so it doesn't seem to be as resistant as everyone thought although you could probably work your magic with this rose too :-). They're still in pots so I'm not sure if that's a contributing factor or not since all my other potted roses are doing well in this area. Plus the prickles are nasty, way way more than Darcy has but the MW has still been putting out a ton of blooms. I wonder what the vendors used for fertilizer. These are 1 year grafted bare root Austins.


  • jim1961 Zone 6a Central Pa.

    Sorry to hear about your munstead wood having more than its share of BS...

    Some of our roses in the past got anthracnose disease... We had a decent amount of leaf drop but not as bad as blackspot..

    anthracnose disease the middle of the spot will fall out after awhile leaving a small hole...

    Sadly Marigolds draw bad insects too that eat there leaves. We planted some Marigolds on a grave-site and something ate all the leaves off back in June. Leaves have since come back and the Marigolds are blooming like crazy at the grave-site..

    I'm going to plant something else next year to see if our rose slug damage increases or not...

    We get Aphids here but not enough to hurt anything...
    No JB's unless I plant light colored roses. I have not see even one JB this year yet.
    I found that certain roses and excess fertilizer applied that causes fast new growth on roses will attract bad insects...

    I have seen no other signs of rose Midge here since I got rid of the two Carefree Sunshines.
    I think the Rose Midge were in the pots when the vendor shipped them to me....

    This post was edited by jim1961 on Tue, Aug 5, 14 at 13:52

  • strawchicago

    Hi Sharon: Glad to hear from you. What's the name of that beautiful blushing white rose that you posted? I love that picture !! Munstead Wood is Seaweed's best bloomer in alkaline CA, versus stingiest Lady Emma. Seaweed has alkaline soil and water.

    If your Munstead Wood is grafted on Dr. Huey, it can takes alkalinity well. One approach is mixing 2 tablespoon of gritty lime with 2 teaspoons of granular sulfate of potash (NPK 0-0-50), or chopped up banana peels (0-3-42). Calcium is best balanced with equal amount of potassium. Potassium is needed for disease-prevention.

    When I first moved here to rock-hard-alkaline clay, pH 7.7, my neighbor planted a dozen roses grafted on Dr. Huey, and watered with our pH 8.3 hard-water. His was blooming non-stop, 100% clean, vigorous, he was cutting blooms every day. I was puzzled: I had just moved from acidic clay, with wimpy BS-fest, stingy roses

    Went out to check my roses after all-night & all morning rain (12 hours): The roses with 1/4 cup gritty lime & 2 teas. sulfate of potash are clean: W.S. 2000, Golden Celebration, and Romantica Sweet Promise. The 5-bands in pots with compost & few red lava rocks & Milorganite are 100% clean.

    The rose in the ground & poor drainage heavy clay with the most Milorganite, Wise Portia, has B.S., most likely from the salt in Milorganite (sewage sludge), NPK 5-2-0. Milorganite with 4% iron is great for bands in fast-draining pots, but NOT best for roses that don't need much iron, or for poor-drainage clay that retains salt.

    One lady killed over a dozen rose bushes by using Mills' Magic Mix every month on her roses in hot summer. Mills Magic Mix has Milorganite for its nitrogen and phosphorus. Since my heavy clay retains salt too well, I'm going back to alfalfa (NPK 2-1-2) with less phosphorus & more potassium, zero salt. I'll buy alfalfa hay or pellets, rather than alfalfa meal, because it's slower-release & cheaper. I'll put gritty lime (pH 9) or COMPOSTED horse manure (pH 8) on top of alfalfa, so no pest nor fungi can germinate on acidic alfalfa, pH 5.7.

    Sewage sludge is high in salt, OK for lawn or fasting-draining pots, but not best for roses in heavy clay. In my experiments, roses break out in fungal diseases when they are stressed out, such as: 1) salt as in manure & Milorganite 2) standing wetness from poor-drainage 3) too much acid, like my lowering tap water with lemon juice 4) harsh chemicals, like MiracleGro soluble with high NPK 5) too much phosphorus, as in the bagged cow manure.

    Hi Jim: I agree that Rose Midge can come from elsewhere, such as Peter Schneider's comment in his book that horse manure gave his garden rose midge. Peter grows over 1,000 roses in Ohio, sandy soil.

    Most likely last year's FRESH horse manure (with tons of mushrooms and decayed straws) gave my roses rust. This year zero rust, despite early summer's 1-month rain. NO horse manure this year. At first I thought too much gypsum on top induced rust, but I tested that recently, putting a wad of gypsum on my smallest rose, Angel Face. Its leaves became wilted just like Crimson Glory did with gypsum-topping. The wilting is from the 17% sulfur in gypsum, that stuff burns my finger, plus corroded the metal scoop.

    Earthworm hates gypsum and sulfur. I prefer Encap Dry Compost to break up my hard clay, rather than gypsum. The holes with too much gypsum, like my 2nd tomato-bed: not much fruits on those tomatoes .. excess calcium drive down potassium. Potassium is necessary for blooming, disease-prevention, and drought-tolerance. Those tomatoes are the most wilted in this hot August.

    Thank you, Jim and Sharon, for posting in this thread. Finally found the best site with pics. to identify plants' deficiencies ... great reference, see below link:

    Here is a link that might be useful: Best site to identify nutrient deficiencies in plants

    This post was edited by Strawberryhill on Tue, Aug 5, 14 at 16:51

  • jim1961 Zone 6a Central Pa.

    I have picked about 12 ripe tomatoes so far off our Tomato plants...yum yum!
    When I planted the tomatoes in mid May I applied some Life 5-5-5 (Dr Earth Fertilizer) to use up and get rid of it...lol
    The Tomato plants have been on there own since then and I have not even had to water them by hand. I let the rain do all the work...lol

    I only plant the more disease resistant tomato plants.

    Our neighbors tomato plants in pots got fungus as they were not very resistant... His tomato plants were only 1-4 ft from ours...Our tomato plants never got the fungus.

    So just like roses I have to plant disease resistant tomato plants too...lol

    Humm, now I am hungry... One tomato sandwich coming up... :-)

  • enchantedrose

    Hi Jim~ I'm hoping to get the bs on MW under control soon. I'm not really that impressed with it. It flowers a lot and the roses smell wonderful but the bush is not very attractive even prior to the bs and it has tons of thorns. I'll still plant these though until I find a good substitute. I really want roses that have fragrance as well as beauty. Is that too much to ask?

    Hi Strawberry~ Thanks again for all the recommendations and links. I'll try this tomorrow and see if I get some improvement. It could be the potting soil too. This rose is from a different vendor so the soil might be more acidic than in my other pots although I haven't done a cabbage test on it to find out for sure. This definitely is a hit or miss venture but I'm determined to grow roses!!

    My Honey Bouquet bloomed. It is beautiful and so big for such a tiny plant.
    The rose is Kordes Pompon Veranda rose and looks stunning. It has gotten mixed reviews here but isn't it gorgeous? I think I HAVE to buy this one even without stellar reviews. The flowers are small though 1 1/2 inch to 2 inches but look stunning. I'm looking for smaller roses as front of border plants and the Kordes Veranda series sounds like it would work perfectly. Rose Unlimited lists this one on her sight so I'll be ordering this late fall before it sells out.


  • jim1961 Zone 6a Central Pa.

    I hope you get that BS under control on MW enchantedrose...

    And yes your Kordes Pompon Veranda rose bloom looks fantastic!

    Every rose will get mixed reviews. The important thing is whether it does well for you or not...

    Knockout is the most disease resistant rose that does well in the most locations than any other rose.
    Over 80 million Knockout Roses were sold as of 2013...
    Yes over 80 million!


    But even Knockouts get blackspot in some areas of the country.
    Knockouts get very bad powdery mildew in some locations that they can not even grow it...
    I've decided on four roses so far for next year...

    Plum Perfect ( Kordes 2013) (Deep Lavender blooms)

    Prairie Harvest ( Buck) (white with yellow center blooms...)

    EarthSong (Buck) (Pink blooms)

    Easy Does it (Harkness England) (Orange/pink blooms)
    I tried this rose once before and I liked it very much so I'm going to try it again in a totally different location than before this time...

    This post was edited by jim1961 on Tue, Aug 5, 14 at 21:14

  • strawchicago

    Hi Sharon: Yes, Honey Bouquet bloom is very big for a floribunda. I love that Kordes Pompon Veranda's look of pink & white.

    Hi Jim: I got lots of cherry tomatoes and about 10 big ones. The taste is too sour this year. Last year I mulched my tomatoes with cocoa mulch (high in potassium & trace elements) ... and got more tomatoes & sweeter tasting. Will have to do that again for the next rain.

    I'll start another thread since this one is too long.

  • HU-406205804

    I Need Help with potted roses with black spot...a little background ...I live in Florida its rainy season here my roses look terrible right now..any advice about soil and what to use on the remaining leaves will be very appreciated!

  • Valrose FL Zone 8b

    Hi HU it would be best if you started a new discussion. This one is so long that it is hard too find the end. I'm sure that lots of folks would be glad to help with your blackspot problem.

Need help with an existing Houzz order? Call 1-800-368-4268 (Mon-Sun).