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Building Raised Beds Cedar or PT Wood? How Thick?

12 years ago

I've read a few other forums that discussed this, I'm needing some folks with experience to give me some peace of mind about the two options I'm considering.

I'm wanting to build 2-4 4x8 beds at 12'' high or 18'' high. Primarily for summer crops in Texas but I'll be using at least one or two for beets, parsnips, carrots, potatoes, onions here soon so I want to get one build pronto.

I was thinking of using 2 per side cedar boards of 1x6x8 with a 4x4 cedar post in the corner, issue is they're really only 3/4th thick and it seems awfully thin. Would it bow out? I'd be looking at close to $60 per bed this way.

I was also starting to open my mind to the idea of Pressure Treated wood again, 2''x6''x8' or 2''x12''x8' and if its two inchs thick would I realistically need corner posts or middle-posts if its only 8 ft long?

Which would you guys go and why? I prefer cedar but might want to add a seat or ledge eventually and the cedar won't be very thick or stable I think compared to the thicker pressure treated wood. And if I can, should I pay extra for one board that's 12 inchs wide or two that are 6 inchs wide (or two that are 8 inchs wide)? I've not lived here long but I have seen some rabbits. Its int he middle of a new HOA complex of houses built around 2005 with no 'wilderness' areas nearby, a few blocks away there's a creek. I've heard gophers are an issue in my area of Texas though I don't notice any tunnels in the yard.

Here's a badly done diagram of what I'd like to eventually have - https://www.dropbox.com/s/n7ffd9fggh6ucqr/2014-01-31%2008.36.42.jpg but that's a few years out.

I also want a small Strawberry Patch and Blackberry Patch that I'm trying to work out what I'd need. Maybe 4x4 strawberry patch (do they need full sun? I am in Texas and would like to put them by the house with just afternoon sun). I was also thinking 2x8 along the sunny side of the house against the wall for 4 blackberry plants, thornless type with some kind of trellis system.

I also want to have a small water-garden with a waterfall, though I might do a small self-contained padio one rather than an inground one. If I did in ground I'd need it to be a few feet deep so I could keep fishies (goldfish, I know that's not enough room for koi!). Also to have a water source for birds, hummingbirds, and lizards. Though I know attracting birds isn't probably a great idea.

I also want to promote Anole and other lizards on my property--sounds random I suppose but I have always adoored them. I want to create habitates for them and even buy wild ones if need be and create outside enclosures and feed them regularly before releasing them.

I know that was a lot, my real question is just the wood bit on top and I just threw the other bits in for bonus.

Thank you ahead of time guys, I know I've been asking so much lately but I really feel I've benefited a lot from all the answers I've gotten and appreciate everyone on here who's knowledgeable and spends so much time answering questions like these. :)

Comments (18)

  • 12 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    I'm sure there are many opinions on this, but I'd go with the best you can afford. There's a reason the higher quality products cost more and in the end they will last longer. That being said, basic 1x lumber should just be fine - the contents of the box are not really putting any pressure on the sides.

    I just took apart some boxes that had been constructed by someone else using 2x lumber, and they were still warped, bowed, crowned, you name it. I don't know what the condition was when they were built, perhaps they were always that way.

    I really like the idea of a composite material. There are some YouTube videos discussing this (I think one I saw was a concrete siding material). Wood that is outdoors and constantly moist is eventually going to give out.

  • 12 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    I built 2 4'x4' beds, 18" high last summer with 2"x6" redwood - using 4"x4" corner posts - based on this design: http://www.vegetablegardener.com/item/2606/build-your-own-raised-beds/page/all

    I think it was 12 8' boards cut in half - and two 4"x4" cut into 8 pieces. I don't have a big saw, so keeping the cuts simple was helpful for us.

    As I recall it was around $110 for all the lumber and cuts at home depot - not bad imo. I went with redwood because it resists termites and lasts a long time - and looks great too. So far, I'm super happy - they are tough, handsome and working out great. 18" high is probably not necessary, but I like being able to weed and plant etc without bending over, and being able to sit on the side of the bed to harvest etc.

    My 2 cents. ;)

  • 11 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    At the risk of sounding like a paranoiac, here's a quote from a major wood products company:

    "Wood treated with waterborne preservatives is typically used in residential, commercial and industrial building structures. Creosote is primarily used for treating railroad ties, guardrail posts, and timbers used in marine structures. Oil-borne (penta) is most often used for treating utility poles and cross arms.

    "Several typical waterborne preservatives used in building applications include: Chromated Copper Arsenate (CCA-C), Alkaline Copper Quat (ACQ-C, ACQ-D, ACQ-D Carbonate), Micronized Copper Quat (MCQ), Copper Azole (CA-B & CA-C, μCA-C) and Sodium Borates (SBX/DOT).
    These treatments are often referred to by trade names such as: Wolmanized Natural Select™ (Copper Azole), Preserve and NatureWood® (ACQ), MicroPro™, Smart Sense™ (MCQ), and Advance Guard® (Borate). Each preservative usually has a number of variations available so care should be exercised when specifying treated wood.

    "Some different oil-borne preservatives that are used are Chlorpyrifos/IBPC, Copper Naphthenate and Pentachlorphenol. One advantage of these treatments is that they do not create swelling in the wood, but there is generally an added cost over water-borne treatments as well as availability in some regions."

    Notice there is no concern there for health. I would assume that leachates would get to plant roots. A good maxim to help us all live longer is "you are what you eat".

  • 11 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    I'm thinking you should be able to get cedar from a saw mill if you're in Texas. Which would be way cheaper than lumber yard. I get mine (arkansas) from a guy 2 real inches by 8 by 8foot. I think four or five dollars apiece. The are "seconds" for him that he would not sell due to imperfections. Personally, I wish they were 6 instead of 8 inches, because that last two inches isn't necessary and mean 25 percent more work and expense in filling.

  • 11 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    If one is worried about leachates, one should do some research and not assume that plant roots will take up a particular substance.

    Cedar is very nice. I bought two of those cedar kits that fit together without screws or nails, I think they are 3x6 by I believe 13" high, just right for me.

  • 11 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    Pressure treated wood is not recommended because of the possibility of leaching into the plants. If you are pregnant or feeding children that is a risk you may not want to take.

    I always think of growing a garden as a healthy thing to do, not a risky venture.

  • 11 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    "Pressure treated wood is not recommended because of the possibility of leaching into the plants."

    If you're going to make statements like this, you should cite your sources.

    The fact that you're afraid of something doesn't make it true, or make it a legitimate concern. I have seen no research stating any danger to using modern pressure treated woods in garden beds. I have seen many comments like your stating that its dangerous because it has 'chemicals' (nevermind that literally everything on earth is made of chemicals)

  • 11 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    Joppa, have you seen any studies suggesting that it is safe to use treated wood in gardens? Do you have citations?

  • 11 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    The folks at Home Depot told me not to use PT wood for veggie gardens - and there was even a sign indicating as such. Maybe being overly cautious but hey, if they are, why risk it?

  • 11 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    I made my beds three years ago with cedar and they all still look as good as the day I put them together - other than a change in color due to weathering. But - when I put them together I did something to protect the wood.

    First, I put heavy landscaping fabric down where the beds sit (I have five of them). Next, I built the beds and lined them with the same fabric. This way no soil touches the wood either from the bottom or the inside.

    Each spring I turn over and amend the soil in the boxes going all the way down to the fabric. Other than a few rips in the corners, the fabric is still intact and the wood isn't touched.

    I've helped two other people build their gardens this way and their wood is in great shape too.

  • 11 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    I thought of using cedar, but when I priced it, it was way too expensive and didn't make sense to do it. And I'm sorry to say, but if you're trying to grow as much food as you can, two 4x4 beds are not very much and I think that is a lot of money for two small beds.

    I have one long bed 12" high, 11ft long and 4ft wide.
    I have four beds 12" high, 4ft x 4ft.

    I made them with Pine because I had some already and didn't have to buy much more. It's actually been about 8 years since we built them and they are ready to be replaced now. Now I want to double the square footage that I can grow in. So I want to build…

    Two beds 12" high, 16ft long, 4ft wide
    Six beds 12" high, 6ft long, 4ft wide

    That doubles my growing space.

    I don't feel I need deeper beds, because vegetables are annuals and I've read somewhere recently that they don't really need 18" deep beds. 12" is just right for me and I don't mind bending and kneeling. So less wood.

    I priced what cedar I could find and it was going to cost me over $600. to build those beds. I called 12 lumber yards and only two had cedar and they weren't the dimensions I wanted either.

    Finally, one lumber yard, said he was steering people to use Eastern Hemlock rough sawn, which is very inexpensive. It is more rot resistant than Pine but less than Cedar. Estimates were 5yrs for Pine, 8-10 years for
    Hemlock, and 15yrs for Cedar.

    I priced the Hemlock and it was going to cost me $198. to build the same beds. So, if I built the hemlock and had to replace them in 10 years for another $200. It would still be $200. less than building the cedar beds, and would last me 5yrs longer.

  • 11 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    I guess "growing as much food as you can" depends on your yard size. One advantage of a small yard (15' x 20' if that, which includes a giant ancient orange tree about to burst with fruit, but also cuts down on sun/real estate) is spending a bit more on materials since I can only fit two 4'x4' beds. It's true, if I had the space, I would have spread the money out on more square feet of beds - 12" is fine, for sure, but in my yard, they're so prominent that the look of redwood and their height was a nice advantage for me. Plus, when I have people over, I can turn them into benches with a couple of boards if nothing is growing in the front rows. (When you live in a 632 sq ft house you get real efficient!)

    We also saved money when we put in a 9'x9' patio ourselves using recycled/found pavers and materials so saved some dollars there....oh, and I used the native soil from the patio project in the beds - we are lucky to be on a floodplain in Los Angeles with good loamy soil.

    Someday I'd love to have multiple 16' long beds! Though for two people, might be too much? ;)

  • 11 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    I wouldn't use treated wood either and I don't need a citation to 'back up' my opinion. Companies made pressure treated wood in the past that was not safe to use in vegetable gardens, lumber yards and big box stores sold the unsafe wood without doing enough investigation to know if it was a problem or not. So, I don't trust any kind of process or addition to a natural material that someone else tells me is safe.

    I reduce the risk without investigation and research or trusting, by using natural materials, unless it's not possible to do so.

    And that goes for organic standards as well. I don't use fungicides, herbicides, pesticides or any other 'cide' in my entire garden. Not just the vegetable garden. I don't care who tells me it's just fine and is safe. You're welcome to believe that there is accurate information available to make those distinctions and have other reasons for deciding to use products in the garden that someone has told you is safe and you believe and trust that, but I don't.

    And suggesting someone is lazy because they didn't provide you with citations, is a little backwards. If you want to know if something is safe for you, look up your own citation.

  • 11 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    I'd rather have my plant roots touch clean, safe cedar wood personally, even it means the garden bed will look less fancy because of budget.

    http://www.finegardening.com/design/articles/pressure-treated-wood-in-beds.aspx

  • 11 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    Jane, sounds like you were very resourceful on a small property. I love that you can turn your beds into a bench! And in your case, absolutely would go for the more expensive wood and build the bed higher. Good job!

  • 11 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    Thanks Prairiemoon! I still need to take some photos of our remodel last summer to post over in Small Houses. ;)

  • 11 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    I forgot there was a Small Houses forum. My house is small by today's standards, I'd probably learn a lot. I was going to ask for a photo. I'll look for them over there.

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