Comparison April 2010 to December 2011

December 14, 2011

These are photos of growth from April 2010 to December 2011

I fertilize with 8-3-9 with minors, foliar feed monthly with Sequestrene 138, PhytoFos, and Copper. I also soil drench with Sequestrine about every three months.

By pj1881 at 2011-12-14

Cogshall April 2010

By pj1881 at 2011-12-14

Cogshall December 2011

By pj1881 at 2011-12-14

Jujube April 2010

By pj1881 at 2011-12-14

Jujube December 2011

By pj1881 at 2011-12-14

Brewster Lychee April 2010

By pj1881 at 2011-12-14

Brewster Lychee December 2011

By pj1881 at 2011-12-14

Kohala Longan NOVEMBER 2010

By pj1881 at 2011-12-14

Kohala December 2011

Comments (38)

  • bsbullie

    Impressive growth on the Cogshall in just a year and a half, especially on the trunk. Just curious, why do the leaves of the Cogshall in the April photo look almost black ?

    I can't see in your picture, does your Jujube have fruit on it ?


  • phucvu

    wow i wonder if that kind of growth is only possible just in florida.

  • jfernandez


    No. It's possible here in North and parts of South Orange County California. Also, the East LA area has some nice 10a zone. I found that the best growing areas for mangos, and tropicals in general, around here are in Santa Ana and North Tustin area.


  • phucvu

    but not like florida, i mean people are still having trouble growing stuff in oc and even in san diego.

  • pj1881

    Rob, my Jujube does have fruit on it. Its not heavily loaded, but there are maybe a hundred fruit a little larger than a green olive. About a week ago I had 20% more but they fell off prematurely.

  • zands

    Very well done with Cushman mango. What kind of copper do you use and why do all your fruit trees get foliar copper? I can understand why they get the other foliars. You taking the extra time and effort so are are getting your trees off to a really good start. It would be nice to update next mango season and see how much fruit you get from Cushman

  • jeffhagen

    Ohh my gosh! Those things went bezerk! You guys have that nice sandy soil that the trees love.


  • MangoDoc

    Very nice work on taken care of your trees, They are Beautiful.

  • hmhausman

    Keep up with whatever you are doing....it is obviously working very, very well.


  • tropicalgrower89

    I agree with Harry.

    I'm shocked about how fast that Indian jujube grew.


  • mangodog

    pj - you've got the formula down! I mean could anyone expect more from any set of trees than you have???? Excellent work - and hope the 2 legged thieves keep their bloody hands to themselves when these hunky trees start producing (the ones near the street)!

    And JF - I agree with phucvu - I think Florida benefits from warmer, more growable late falls and early springs, and even winter (except for a very short period perhaps). I'm betting they get growth year round for the most part.

    I believe the USDA zone chart is based on recorded minimum temps that have been collected on specific days and that may be what puts them into similar zones with parts of SoCal, but overall their daily highs (and lows) throughout the winter average higher than anything we have, thus keeping the soil temp up and giving more chance for growth...just my logic, anyway....


  • pj1881

    Thanks everyone for the kind words as always. I do see growth in the winters down here, but a lot s-l-o-w-e-r... Also, we seem to get an awful lot of wind that really destroys the new flushes during Fall and Winter. The best part is so far this December has been warmer than usual, daytime temps in the 80s, nights around 65! Now that I am posting this comment it will FREEZE! No, chances are my frost structures with all the time and money will end up not getting used. Its just like insurance, when you have it you dont need it! The reason I use the copper on everything is because its easier to mix a bunch of spray at once. I also throw down a couple handfuls of Epsom Salt about every six months too! So far I havent seen any sign of toxicity or fert burn on anything. I try to keep my mixes/spreads on the lighter side to avoid injury. My thoughts are that the nutrients need to be available consistently and not in large amounts in only a few times a year. My soil is made up of primarily sugar sand with about a four inch cap of rich soil. My sprinklers are supplied by well water, and the minerals have stained the top foot of sugar sand below the soil level (I dont know if the minerals are usable or not?)

  • nullzero

    I believe the added humidity and higher night time temps, increase the plant growth greatly. The main problem with CA, is even in the summer time we have very few nights above 65 degrees.

    Maximizing micro-climate potential in SoCal, would improve growth rates a lot. Its possible to match or surpass Florida outdoor growth rates, but only with an indoor structure or supplemental heating/lighting.

  • simon_grow

    Thanks for the update, looks like all your attention to detail in your fertilizing routine is paying off. I think we can all get similar results if we pay closer attention to our fertilization schedule.

  • yellowthumb

    I have been caring a pear orchard part time before. One of the tricks we play with young pear trees is to withhold water and fertilizer sometimes to slow down the growth a bit. We call it hardening to train the tree to develop deeper roots. If you water and fertilize trees too well, they tend to develop shallow root system, less dense timber and extreme large canopy, which is not drought and storm resistant.

    The same thing happens with corns. Most well watered and fertilized corns will be the first ones to be uprooted during a nasty storm.

    But I have no experience with tropical trees which grow continuously.

  • mangomandan

    Thanks for sharing, pj. I had been wondering what level of care Florida folks are giving their mango trees. I used to do some of the things you mention, but got lazy. My mature trees don't seem to need the minor elements, but you've motivated me to get busy with the newly planted ones.

    Are most mango growers in FL spraying the blossoms and small fruit for anthracnose? Or mostly growing more resistant varieties?

  • tropicalgrower89

    Pj1881- What type/brand of mulch do you use?

    Thank you,


  • pj1881

    I am currently using composted tree chippings, below that is pine bark and cypress mulch.

  • red_sea_me

    Wow PJ, awesome results! You ought to try growing tomacco next.


  • zands

    pj1881---- What kind of foliar copper are you using? Is it as a fungus preventative? thanks much

    Also do you really compost tree chippings in a compost pile? Or do you mean you are mulching with tree chippings and they are composting in place?

  • pj1881

    My tree trimmings are mixed with soil and sand then composted. I'm using So. Ag. Neutral Copper Fungicide in half doses as copper can kill soil bacteria! Bill Whitman incorporated it in his foliar spray with excellent results. I am actually going to start using his recommended Nutri-leaf mix including NPK and see how that does.

  • jfernandez


    Null hit it right on the head.maximize your micro-climate, protection and a good fertilization schedule.


  • zands

    Many mas mucho thanks for your clarification on the foliar copper you use and your composting of chipped tree trimmings. Check out Jean Pain of France on chipped trees n bushes. I have linked to this before





  • zands

    OK I am in Fl but just theorizing..... California climate has some advantages. Less humidity means more intense sunlight year round compared to Florida so this can help growth. I would be planting mango trees so close together the branches touch and mingle. This helps make a more humid micro-climate. This also will shade more leaves so they don't burn and transpire out water so quickly

    Citrus is big business in both states and grows well in both states. California citrus has thicker skins due to your cold nights. Just saying but mangoes of plenty of potential. You have lots of large backyard mango trees there that you have photographed and posted. Once they get large they are creating their own micro-climate meaning more trapped humidity and leaves shading other leaves so they retain moisture better. Also the leaves get better protected from the dry winds you get.

  • pj1881


    Thanks for the info!

  • mangodog

    Brilliant Zands - you've hit my theory (and some experience) on the head!!!!!!

    I do plant my mangos near other mangos and trees in order to eventually intermingle and it not only helps with the humidity -a big problem out here in the desert - but as you also say, the "dry out" of the plant, another challenge out here. Yes, definitly the most sun of just about anyplace in the world out here, so some shading is actually beneficial in my case. I also am starting to mulch more heavily and I think that will add to this whole scenario.

    The thing you didn't mention was, an intermingling canopy like that will form like it's own freeze protection. The top part of the canopy may get nipped or even really frozen hard, but the next leaf level down should be protected (if its not like say in the 20's for a very long time), and send out shoots and flowers come spring time. I call that a winter pugging, that in a way can keep the tree size under some control. This is all theory of course
    but we'll see.

    JF - agree with all you say, and most definitely have to get some organic mix of fert. to spread on a schedule....


  • zands

    wow thanks ChristmasDog. Just thinking it through. You should be right about the more mango greenery the more freeze protecting. Yeah you really need to create (as best you can) your own backyard micro-climate. You are reversing the desert in your own small way. If 100% of your neighbors copied you and spread out there would be no desert there in 200 years due to their strategic watering of trees. Many nations have tried large scale planting of trees to reverse desertification. It can be done. Israel has planted millions of trees trying to do this. Trees mean moisture rain making more life a beneficial circle.

  • zands

    Yes creating a jungle canopy as best you can in a 5" per year rain situation. Like an oasis in Arabia which must be where a spring is located so they can irrigate and bring life to the desert. Another plus you have is clay content in your soil. We have none in South Florida. The only organic way that nutrients can be held in the soil is via more organic matter. These days we can do foliar sprays to feed too.

    You go just 90 miles south to Cuba or Puerto Rico. Volcanic created islands where you have real soil w real clay content.... a much better situation. Many of the old Miami houses with clay tile roofs. The tiles were made in pre-Castro Cuba and shipped over

  • nullzero

    A good read on trees and the effects on climate here; http://www.rainforestinfo.org.au/good_wood/trees_gs.htm

    Plants contribute to precipitation in a big way once the storm is inland. Having bodies of water like ponds is also a great micro-climate helper for storing sun energy and increasing humidity.


    Do you have any mesquite trees growing? They are a great tree to have in desert orchard. The nitrogen fixing qualities, highly quality wood, edible pods, and good dappled shade.

  • mangodog

    Nulls - I do have one large Mesquite I actually have to trim in the next couple weeks - edible pods??? hmmmm - don't see a lot of pods that hit the ground....but the shade it makes for my circular driveway is divine! Losing it's leaves right now...annual ritual. Yes, the wood is used to flavor food when it's fired up.

    Zandsy - sorry, but no clay here where I am either. This is a former sea bed so all sand with very little organics, but a very deep aquifer (I'm told) from all the rain that hits the circle of mountains around us. That's where we get a certain percentage of our water - a super deep, super large well....


  • nullzero


    The mesquite pods are usually ground up into a flour. You can then mix in the flour into pancakes, cookies, and other baked foods and dishes. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mesquite_flour

    Was also wondering are you growing any Opuntia for its pads and fruit? Can do a lot of stuff out in your zone, I got a large list of good edible plants that are drought tolerant. Btw, are you growing Marula (Sclerocarya birrea)?

  • reb1136

    What brand PhytoFos are you using and where can you get it? I am searching around the internet but I keep comming up with something called Exel LG foliar fert.

  • jhl1654

    Amazing! . You know what you are doing .Keep it up. The fact that you are in zone 10a also helps.

  • pj1881

    REB1136, I buy the Phyto-Fos from a local distributor that sells a lot of it to Hydroponic people.

    Thats the correct product (Exel LG Foliar Fert) it runs $99 for 2.5gal

    Heres part of the description..

    PHYTOPHOS contains the bacteria Bacillus megaterium, Bacillus polymyxa & Phosphate Solublizing Microorganism (PSM). The most impotant aspect of the phosphorous cycle are microbial mineralization, solublization and mobilization, besides chemical fixation of phophorous in the soil. The mineralization of organic phophorous which is left over in the soil after harvesting or added as plant or animal residues to soil, takes place through enzymatic activity of this bacteria. PSM play an important role in converting insoluble phosphatic compound such as rock phosphate, bone meal and particularly the chemically fixed soil phosphorous into available form.

    Here is a link that might be useful: Palm Beach County Supplier of PhytoFos

  • mangodog

    Nulls - I see the opuntia growing around the 'hood but haven't really tasted one yet. And as far as Mesquite pods - funny - I don't see many (if any!?!?!) on my tree - could it be a male tree???

    And Marula I dont' know. Ever since this mango fixation hit me, I've got no time or inclination to start on other plants...sorry....I like the sweet and slurpy....


  • nullzero


    Marula is a relative of the mango. Its pulp is said to be sweet tart and very tasty, its a popular fruit in Africa. It grows in the savannas of Africa, and has excellent drought tolerance. The seeds are also edible, which you can make a eat fresh or make a tasty oil from.

  • reb1136

    Is the Southern Ag Neutral Copper Fungicide the same as the Liguid Copper Fungicide.I looked on there website and it said that the Neutral Copper was discontinued.

  • pj1881

    I would think they are the same.. Copper is the one thing that you need to use sparingly, it can build up and become toxic to some foliage..

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