Thanks for posting!

I have a question as a newbie planter... I was under the impression that suckers never produce fruit, hence the reason for pinching them off (so that they don't pull resources from the fruit-growing parts of the plant) to increase quality. So while I understand the quality part of the equation, I don't quite understand how leaving them would increase quality.

Thanks!

Suckers do produce fruit. However, if I understand it correctly they develop stems almost as thick as the main stem. Thus they draw away much of the resources from that main stem or if they are not as strong and thick as the main stem then the fruit they produce will not be as big or good as the fruit from the main stem. Also, the more places for the water and nutrients have to go the lower the quality to all.

Thus, if I'm correct and looking at the stems that you can see in the after photos where it looks like branching were at one time suckers and they are producing fruit.

I read on article from Urban Chicago that allowing a few suckers to develop above the first blossom is ok and can help increase quantity while not really compromising quality but my suckers that I unknowingly let develop are under the first blossoms. A mistake to not repeat next year!

Great job on building those EarthTainers!!

You will find soon that your plants will outgrow the cages you are currently using. Here were mine a few days ago:

Mine are now over 80 inches tall - - and we just hit the first day of Summer today. I've extended the Gurney's cages with another half-height section to 76 inches - - and they are still too short.

Here is a link to the Burpee 40 inch cages which will yield a 76 inch cage using the two panels in each box:

http://www.burpee.com/gardening-supplies/garden-growers/supports-ties-and-fences/pea-and-cucumber-fence-2-pack-prod001250.html?catId=2320&trail=

There is also a Free Shipping coupon code you can use: LSJ5

Have fun!!!

Raybo

Here is a link that might be useful: Burpee Cages

Ray,

Yeah well they have already started to shoot out past the cage on one of the Earthtainers. Adding another section on top is not a bad idea.

I got your plans off of tomatofest.com, which I have to say, are a great idea and not hard at all to do. We followed your advice to drill holes in multiple totes at a time. The only parts where we didn't follow directions are the following:

1. We lined the bottom and sides of the inside of the inserted tote with weed blocker. We thought that at the end of season that it would be easier to remove the old plants and easier to shake up the left over medium, take some out and add new medium later. Thus the weed blocker covers the bottom, comes up the sides and then we trimmed it after putting the lid on. It might seem like a waste to use that much but we are banking on the frustration factor being lessened which sometimes out weighs the cost of a little extra weed blocker.

2. We are not in a high wind area and we toyed back and forth with what staking system worked best for us and in the end we went with the cages but now knowing what I know about pruning for the indeterminate varieties I want to use the swizzle looking stick stakes and no cage at all. Or hopefully some sort of upside down trellis system that starts on the Earthtainer peaks 5-6' above and then aims back down to the ground again.

Thus, our cages are not attached in the same fashion as you recommended but instead inserted on the interior of the lid since we put them in after we put the plants in. It wil do for this year.

Thanks for the tip on the cages. I think I will go back to my local nursery and get more of the same that I bought they seemed cheap, $4 per four sided cage. They aren't Burpee but the same idea and use the same fasteners that you discussed in your directions for attaching the cages to the tote.

Just and idea as well, do with it what you want. But for extra aeration we thought that it might be good to also drill holes in the side of the inserted tote. I think it would be helpful but maybe not.

Thanks for designing this wonderful tool for gardening! I did give to feedthechildren.org like you requested and I did see that you do travel to build Earthtainers for those in need. Should you ever go again to help others in need I would love to come along and help out. I use to be a missionary in days past and want to find ways to give back that combine my talents and passions such as gardening.

Also, thanks for the encouragement!

Anne

There are some assumptions here that need to be addressed for the benefit of other readers. They have all been addressed many times before but it never hurts to re-state them.

First, pruning is not required for ANY reason. It is purely optional and the need is directly linked to the size and type of plant support you use.

Second, it isn't a quantity vs. quality issue. It is a SIZE of the fruit on the pruned plant vs. the larger number of equality high quality but smaller fruit on the un-pruned plant that is the issue. And even that size issue is...debated. The leaves are the source of the energy the plant needs to produce. Massive reduction of the number of leaves on the plant reduces its ability for photosynthesis, the stored sugars, and production energy.

Third, such massive amounts of pruning should never be done all at the same time. It is far too stressful on the plant and can trigger all sorts of problems. Pruning, if you opt to do it, is best done gradually as the plant grows or in small amounts over a period of many days if you choose to play 'catch-up" for some reason.

Fourth, what are called "suckers" do indeed produce fruit.

Fifth, determinate varieties are never pruned except, perhaps, for any branches that touch the ground. (See the Pruning FAQ here.)

Sixth, aggressive pruning of indeterminate varieties, if they recover, results in a much taller plant which will require more and taller support. The plant goes back into growth mode and generates new top growth in order to recover from the pruning.

They are your plants and your choice of course but it is best to fully understand the pros and cons of pruning first.

Dave

If I were to prune like that in AZ, all I would get would be sun scald, which would result in fruit rotting before it can ripen. I need all the foliage I can get to protect the fruit. As it is, fruit on outer trusses is often scalded, as is fruit on more sparsely leaved plants.
I'm beginning to tuck the branches towards the middle of the plant to train fruiting trusses inside the plant so that I have less scalding as that is my biggest loss of fruit.
I think next year I may consider experimenting with a kaolin clay spray to see if this gives me added fruit protection but I would just like to warn people in hot climates before they start pruning off those protective leaves.

Thanks, Dave. Now I wish I hadn't pruned in the early going, as I would prefer a plant that is less tall. One plant is already exceeding the height of my 4' conical wire-frame trellis (in a container), and I don't know how I will be able to support additional vertical growth given my severe space restrictions!

Thanks for the insight, Dave. I have pruned extensively in previous years and to a lesser extent this year. I have shortish stakes so I actually prefer a shorter, bushier plant. I think in the future I will not prune at all. I have a few plants that I have not pruned at all that I am going to compare to other plants of the same variety that I pruned down to the main stem. There are some other factors such as pruning too late and too much at the same time but I will be curious to see how they compare at the end of the season.

Dave, thanks for the info. I appreciate you taking the time to re-iterate.

I'm wondering about the next step which it appears a few are running into here, topping off plants. I have hefty four foot cages in which my plants look wonderful until they hit about the 6.5 foot stage, but then they lean and I run into the extra support issue. I've searched the term topping off at gardenweb, but haven't found the conversations I vaguely remember going on last year.

While my assumption is production will be affected, are there other horror stories about doing this? And as I have a hard time pinching extra seedlings...I'm not even sure I can bring myself to give the toms a flattop kid-n-play style.

Anybody have thoughts?

I pruned one year, and got many, many fewer tomatoes than in unpruned years. I didn't notice any benefit at all. In the unpruned years I can't prove, but can say that I don't remember any good-sized tomato branch, high or low, that didn't eventually have fruit or blossoms. I've grown tomatoes for years, and I have no idea what a tomato "sucker" is; to me, all hairy tomato growths look alike and do alike.

We always let the suckers grow and they used them as cuttings to start new plants. They root easily. you will always miss a few. Kinda like trying to pick all the big cukes or zukes!

Dave thanks for adding details I couldn't.

They are still looking good today.

It does seem that there are those, after a lot of reading who really believe in pruning as a good measure against disease prevention as well as a fruit size enhancer and yes I have read quality issue as well.

I don't have time to add the links today, I have a bridal shower to get to but there does seem to be two camps here and they are divided.

It was a decision I went with and I am happy with it for now. I haven't in the past and I might not be happy with it later in the season but you only live once and time will tell how I really feel about it.

Thanks,

Anne