You could put down wood and require in the lease tenant cover 90% of the flooring with rugs. But then you'd have to reinforce that if tenant didn't put down rug.

This is new construction for a single family home. I just want to add a rental unit to it. I'm not sure what the zoning is but there are multiple homes within the small neighborhood (about 40 homes) that have garage apartments and basement apartments. There's one group home and two bed and breakfasts. It is a designated historical area and I already know that we will have to jump through hoops. High density, multiple family is generally encouraged in our "green" neck of the woods. That's partly why I want to do it. I feel guilty building a 2600 square foot home on .18 of an acre for only one family when I can easily add 800 square feet and house two families.

Glad I do not live there.

Sounds like a recipe for overcrowded parking and lower class housing.

"Glad I do not live there.
Sounds like a recipe for overcrowded parking and lower class housing."

Lower class? I lived in Whistler Canada where a single family home is in the 1 mil range. 90% of the homes have rental suites. It is one of the only ways to afford your home. No lower class here, they don't allow it.

My home town of Vancouver Canada, a huge amount of the older homes close to the beach are renovated and either have suites added or are double decker duplexes. Again not lower class.

That was a joke, brickeyee, right? I don't think that the folks living in a Park Ave triplex I visited in NYC would consider themselves residing in "lower class housing" even if they are in a multi-unit co-op with overcrowded parking.

I applaud ncamy and her community (Asheville, correct?) for being so conscious of building to decrease their environmental footprint.

"Glad I do not live there.
Sounds like a recipe for overcrowded parking and lower class housing.

I'm with brickeye on this one.

That's why Zoning and Subdivision and Land Development Ordinances prevent such catastrophic activities in my region.

If one has to have an attached rental apartment just to be able to afford their 'single family home' home, the planning department isn't doing its job and the person who must build under such conditons likley cannot afford to build at all.

Zoning regs in my region limit single family dwellings to single family only dwellings to prevent just what brickeye mentioned and this original poster cites....regardless of how much these single family dwellings cost.

Because .18 acres is so vast?

Have you been a landlord before? We'll be adding an in-law apt to our house, but even that's not going to have common walls with our own living space.

That said, you want to look at Green glue--and there's no question that you want carpet. Seriously--nothing else comes close.

OK carpet it is. What is Green glue? What type of insulation should I use between the walls and floors?

By the way we are only exploring the idea, but we have handled rental property before. Asheville is quite different. Most people who move to Asheville realize that they will pay upwards of $100K for 0.2 of an acre with no offstreet parking. We are lucky to have four parking spaces off an alley and we don't need but two. Since our bungalow is mostly on one floor, we have a large attic that we would like to put to use. I am well aware that we will sacrifice some of our privacy, but I doubt that we would have much anyway with our house built 15 feet from the neighbor's. I know that most of you wouldn't choose to live that way. I supposed you think it's "low class" that we will live beside of a group home, too, or does the upscale bed and breakfast cancel that out? Thank you to drjoann and jmagill for understanding.

To get a better understanding of what normal is in my community, check out this project being built down the street from us: 1700 square feet including a separate apartment. By the way it is built out of hemp.

Here is a link that might be useful: Nauhaus Project

It's a waste of your time and ours if you haven't bought a copy of the local zoning ordinance and read it carefully (it might be online). What your neighbors have done does not necessarily have any relevance to your situation. There are several illegal apartments in single family houses on my block.

If the second unit is allowed, you will probably have to separate it from your unit with one-hour fire resistance rated walls and floor-ceiling assemblies. I suspect ceiling speakers and recessed lights will have to be removed if not in rated enclosures.

For sound control the ceiling between the units should be suspended on resilient channels and the shared walls should have sound treatment as well. There will always be some sound transfer so don't imagine you will not be aware of someone living in your house especially when they watch TV, listen to music, or climb the stairs.

You will also need a second means of egress from a second floor apartment. Passing through your unit will not count.

On balance the cost of a second unit is usually not worth it unless you must have the income to support the cost of the house. But it might help your children when they can't find a job after finishing school.

I will look into the zoning, but I'm pretty sure it is allowed. We have sat in on zoning meetings where they have approved other apartments. We will have an outside stair. We don't need the money. We just have the space. The house will have the same size footprint and same size shell, apartment or not. Funny you mention family moving in with you. Part of the reason we started considering this is that we have a close relative out of work right now who is thinking about moving up here with us.

An "as-of-right" apartment would be accepted by the local building department without a hearing so, if you sat in on meetings where an apartment was approved it is likely you attended a Board of Appeal hearing where a zoning variance or a special permit was granted.

Assume nothing about local ordinances. If the ordinance is confusing hire a local lawyer who regularly presents to the Board of Appeal or a local architect.

Actually it wasn't the zoning board, it was the historical commission. In our town the HRC takes precendence over all local zoning regulations. We will have to get a variance to build a detached garage off of the alley because it will be built right on the rear property line. But that's the way all of the garages are built, and the HRC is more concerned with everything looking the way it did historically (detached garages built right up to the property line.)

The whole apartment idea probably won't happen immediately when we build, but I was thinking of certain things that should be done now so that we can add it later. Things such as hanging the ceiling on resilant channels or putting a certain type of insulation in the walls can be done during the initial construction.

I think it is funny most of you are concerned about zoning when I know that our zoning is very different from normal places. We are even allowed (dare I say encouraged) to have chicken coops in town. I seriously doubt that is typical of most municipalities.

The reason issues like housing density, lot sizes and yard dimensions are set by local zoning ordinances (under a state enabling law) is because the decisions of historic commissions are too easily subject to civil law suits if they venture into such matters. In most communities such commissions can only restrict the exterior treatment of the buildings.

What building code is in effect?

ncamy - LOL! Now, I know why Asheville is called "The San Francisco of the Blue Ridge Mountains". Sounds as if Asheville, like Austin, is a state of mind as much as it is a physical location. I love it!

I think Asheville needs to adapt/adopt Austin's (un)official slogan:

"Keep Austin Weird".

All my best & thanks for the grin - Jo Ann

Here is a link that might be useful: Keep Austin Weird

Separating off part of a single family house to create an apartment is a far cry from double decker and triple decker houses.

The units are apartments in name only.

Though the basement stairs on a triple decker get rather long.

If you cannot afford your house without chopping it up into separate apartments, maybe you should have bought smaller.

I have seen a number of single family houses chopped into apartments, and every one has had crowded parking in the area. The zoning allowed it, so plenty of folks purchased the less desirable houses adjacent to the interstate highway and chopped them up.

It does form a buffer of lower cost rental housing beside the interstate.
All you have to do if find a place to park the cars.

Brickeye: I would appreciate it if you refrain from implying that rental property is inferior and low class. In my community a large percentage of the population rents and the one bedroom units are mostly rented to professionals. Housing and land here are premimum priced and there really aren't any apartment "complexes" in town. There are a handful of 1 BR condos but many of them are priced upwards of $500K. If you've read what I already wrote I said I would be able to provide off street parking which is not expected in my neighborhood since only about half of the single family residences have parking at all. I also said I didn't need the money, I just have the space and want to utilize it.

drjoann: LOL! I thought that was Asheville's motto. There are t-shirts and bumper stickers everywhere that say, "Keep Asheville Weird." When you get settled into TR you'll have to come visit us.

To everyone else: I didn't mean to start a war. I appreciate the practical construction advice. And yes, if we do ever do this, it will be zoned properly and legal.

I was trying to take this in stride, but now I am just gobsmacked! I don't like "forum drama", but ...

brickeyee - I think you are either missing the point or being deliberately provocative.

ncamy isn't proposing creating an apartment in her home because she can't afford that new home, she is doing it because she is trying to be environmentally conscious. She is thinking of doing something that is viewed as a _positive_ within her community. Context is everything, in this case.

ncamy's house is within an historical district of Asheville, NC. Asheville is well known for its architecture and wonderful lifestyle. That is hardly like living next to the interstate and forming a lower cost rental buffer. And, I, personally, would refrain from being judgmental, even if it were. Not everyone chooses or even wants to live in an R-1 area.

I grew up in a neighborhood of multi-family dwellings and it was a nice neighborhood like many nice neighborhoods in a very large city. Its a neighborhood where people still sit out on their porches (stoops) and actually talk to each other as the kids run around and play. My parents are elderly, and, living half a continent away, I am reassured knowing that their younger neighbors are keeping an eye on them.

My old neighborhood may be working class, but it isn't lower class. There is a difference. One doesn't have to live in a mansion (or a McMansion) in order to practice the social graces.

This is pretty funny ... ncamy & I were posting simultaneously and pretty much said the same thing. Great minds & all that ...

From what I am gathering, it is not out of neccesity for income now in order to be able to afford your home, it is for maybe some future date, right? Just thinking ahead?

We are doing something sort of similar. I don't have any intentions to rent it out to strangers, but I do see family members here (hmmm okay so maybe some are strange) just kidding

How ours came to be, we wanted everything for us on one floor for our old age. Therefore this determined the footprint. I knew I wanted to tuck a few bedrooms upstairs, so that was determined by the main floor. And then we wanted a full daylight basement, no question. So there again, the main floor determined this size also.

It is WAAAYY bigger than two people need in their old age (no we are not there yet, but you never know when a disabling tragedy might happen and we will need one level living)

In the meantime, I have a daughter and grandson who moved back home while she attends college. So while the upstairs is still part of the house, it is also somewhat of a little loft apartment where she can have some privacy, and we can have some privacy from her.

The downstairs, we still have a son in highschool, and who knows what the future holds, and as mentioned, finding jobs after college.

We built this house energy efficient and roomy, with family in mind. Either to come and visit and have some space (privacy) or in the event that anyone needed a place to stay for whatever reason. And yes, I had siblings in mind, one single with a child who owns her own home and she is managing on her own, but you just never know with this economy.

So rather than hand out money to help them pay their bills and housing, I just decided I would invest in my own house and then if anyone needed help, we could help out with a place to stay.

If that never happens, and after the kiddos are out and on their own, we are accumulating grandkids and have lots of relatives that love to come and stay and go horseback riding, etc. They take a weeks vacation and come and stay with us, and I love it.

So while it isnt really set up to be a multi-family dwelling, it sort of is with separate entrances, small kitchettes (no cook stoves) etc. So I don't intend to rent it out, but I do see opening our doors to family in a "shared accomodations" type situation in the event that they need it.

I plan to enjoy it with family for 15 - 20 years, and then at that time, I can see building my 2 room cabin if it is just too much to keep up with.

I am sure there are a gazillion reasons or ways to have done it differently or not at all, but I think we will enjoy it, and family are already calling and "booking" their vacations :-) Spring break is about filled up :-P Just hoping we are finished by then... ha

Green Glue is a visoelastic dampening product that's cheaper and more effective than anything else on the market. There are several possible ways to construct a wall using Green Glue depending upon your desired sound reduction rating (sound transfer class, or STC). Resilient channels and Green Glue on the ceiling below will help STC, but what you really want to concentrate on for floors is NRC, which is determined by transfer through solid bodies. That's where carpet is most important, though resilient channels help, too. green Glue makes caulk and joist table that can be suitable for wall-to-floor connections. You'll want foam gaskets for outlets in common walls, too, and green glue caulk for the edges.

Our idea is to add a large two-level apartment for our parents. When they are healthy, they;ll live on both floors. If they get frail, they'll move to one, and a nurse's aid can live on the other, if needed. After they die, we can rent it out to cover our property taxes during retirement (not necessary, but nice), and when we get too old to keep up the main house, we hope to move into the apartment while a child's family takes the main house. (We'll see about that, though.) The only connection will be through a common garage, though.

(My parents' "little" apt will be about 1600 sqft. Our house, by that time, will be 4400 sqft--at minimum. If we finish our additions, it will be 5900. And that's not including my autistic brother's above-garage efficiency apartment.... If we finish our additions, though, it will be because we will be vastly expanding our family through adoption!)

reyesuela, since the search function has not been working properly, didn't you and your DH buy a house to redo and/or a fairly large kitchen addition/remodel? Or do I have you confused with someone else?

ncamy,
Sounds like a cool neighborhood. I can't help you regarding the sound issue, but from my own experience working now with our city planning department on getting approval for a 2nd unit (We own a SFR on an R-2 zoned lot, in a mixed use neighborhood... which must mean we're low-class riff raff, LOL! but I digress...). I would reiterate that you work with your planning/zoning department early on in addition to the historic district folks.

Let me give you a couple of examples why we found it very important. If we want to use the unit (in our case over the detached garage) as a studio/guest housing vs. a rental apartment, there are different rules on important building considerations such as setback, offstreet parking spaces and egress. For example, for our own use, only one set of stairs is required to the unit. If it's rented, a second set of stairs is required and the centerline of the stairs must be no less than 10 feet from our property line. So although I have no plans to rent out the space, we will be altering our plan to create a wraparound deck space that can accommodate a spiral staircase as the secondary exit. And we have to move the entire garage and apartment over 1 foot from our original plans to accomodate the 10-ft. from the property line rule.

By the way, would it possibly make more sense to have a smaller footprint main house with the apartment over the detached garage for maximum privacy/flexibility. As with the attic space, you could choose to just have the shell built now, and the interior finished later if you chose to.

I'm sure that there are some specific rules about constructing property with the intent to rent. I'm going to discuss this with my builder to find out if it is something we want to pursue. We are thinking about not finishing it until my daughter goes off to college (in two years.) At that time all of our upstairs living area will be closed off.

For those of you who are so concerned about my zoning, I did find the following with just a little bit of research. According to strategy 15 of Goal I of our City Plan, multi-family dwellings are encouraged in single family residential areas. My lot is zoned RS8.

"ASHEVILLE CITY PLAN - 2025 IMPLEMENTATION MATRIX Status Update July 2009

Goal I. The City should pursue compatible adaptive reuse and infill development in order to actively promote appropriate development and redevelopment within the City and its ETJ.

Strategy 15. The City should permit duplexes and other low intensity multifamily dwellings meeting design and separation requirements as a use by right subject to special requirements in single family zoning districts.

See Strategy 7. Are looking to expand program to tri-plexes."

Here is a link that might be useful: Asheville City Smart Growth document

Adaptive reuse and infill housing are code words for the rehabilitation of exiting urban buildings where the former use is no longer viable or the buildings are damaged and abandoned. You are looking at an urban land use program which I doubt applies to your project unless you have bought an abandoned building.

You should be looking at the City of Ashville Zoning ordinance as linked below.

Sec. 7-5-4. "Uses by right, subject to special requirements" says in an RS8 district you can built a single-family dwelling on a min. 5,000 s.f. lot with a min, 50 ft lot width, a min. front setback of 15 ft, a min. side setbacks of 6 ft, a min. rear setback 15 ft, and a max. height of 40 ft. There are other requirements regarding open space and landscaping as well.

The dwelling can have one accessory apartment with a max. gross floor area of 500 s.f. or 25% of the area of the principal single-family dwelling, which ever is greater. But the apartment area cannot be greater than 50% of the principal single-family dwelling area.

It appears a duplex is allowed but it s a Conditional use requiring an unusual amount of review by the Planning and Zoning Commission as well as public hearings and approval of the City Council.

You are treating this issue as if it were uncomplicated and not worthy of expert assistance at this point in the project. I do this for a living and I assure you that your approach is a serious mistake. If you want to go this route hire a zoning lawyer or an architect and avoid the inevitable red herrings and wild goose chases.

I make no representation of the accuracy of the above information; that costs extra.

Here is a link that might be useful: Ashville Zoning Ordinance

Macv, you gave my DH a good chuckle. Thanks for the free advice! Actually at our preliminary hearing our project was worded as an infill development (their words, not mine.) Perhaps it is incorrect wording but our lot is an infill lot that has never been built on. After the house is built, in a few years, we'll go back before the board and ask if we can finish the apartment. If they say no, then what will it hurt? I'm sure it's not going to be a bad thing that we have installed resilient channels and put in a little extra insulation, right? There is such a huge push in our area to increase density without having it look like mini apartment complexes that I would be seriously surprised if it were denied.

>reyesuela, since the search function has not been working properly, didn't you and your DH buy a house to redo and/or a fairly large kitchen addition/remodel? Or do I have you confused with someone else?

Did that one and sold it, back when you were building your house. :-( DH hated the state, so unfortunately, the remodel was for selling from the beginning. The remodel was rather aggressively bland as a result!

It was 4050 sqft when we left--we added over 1000sqft of heated space without touching the rooflines or adding foundations--that possibility was exactly why we bought it in the first place. We moved to 3200 sqft, including basement, which was an unpleasant change. My old master bathroom (8x14') was bigger than the new kitchen (6.5x6 for the main part, with a 6' section lined up against the opposing wall)!!!

The new master bath used to be 4x8', with a 2.5'x2.5' bump out so a toilet would fit. Seriously. The wall-hung sink was 17" deep, and there was a 19" space between sink and wall. It is in the middle of a remodel.

This is another major fixer upper, but it has all the same sorts of good bones that the old one had, and it's on 2 acres a stone's throw from DC. I'll be much happier when the bathrooms are all done, though--and happier still when we do the 560 sqft kitchen addition. (I'm going to sneak a 14x26' weight/exercise room into the basement of a portion of the addition as a surprise present for DH. Yes, I actually can add a whole other room of the house without him noticing.)

I recommend getting the permits for the rental apartment up front rather than later if you intend to comply with all applicable laws.

Did that one and sold it, back when you were building your house.

Must be why I missed your selling it! lol I would be able to add a room without DH noticing it too. He says he's observant. Sometimes he is, but I replaced a wood rug in the DR with a flat weave Soumak. He walked across it barefoot for three weeks before I finally couldn't stop giggling and told him. Took three days to notice new pillows on the sofa next to his chair in great room. When the kids were still at home, we always had fun playing "how long will it take Dad to notice." Good luck with your new project.

Getting back to the upstairs apartment, since you are building, I would agree with Macv and get all permits for a rental so it won't have to be approved later on. Will most likely be a PITA later... and if any law is added/changed, you'll be covered.