table

Chair, total 12 chairs

Really similar to these:
http://www.pafur.com/diningchairs/52179.html
They are a Chinese Chippendale design.
Casey

i've been in antique repair and fine furniture restoration over 25yr, most of it very high end stuff. assuming it's the real thing and not a knock off. the manufacture will stamp or maybe burn his mark under the table top or maybe on the pedestal .
sorry, but without more detailed pics, that's all i've got.

Wow, great find Casey. If possible can you please tell me more about Chinese chairs: years, prices, quality etc if you happen to know.
thank you

This post was edited by syavik on Thu, Nov 20, 14 at 23:01

The style looks more English than American. I doubt that it is 18th century. It looks refinished. But lets say for a second that it is American 18th cent. original finish, it might be worth upwards of $700,000 if you could determine the maker. If it were 18thc English, original finish, the same set might be worth $60,000.

From there we go into reproductions and the quality of reproduction. Again, with original finish, hand carved in America, 1920s reproduction, might be worth $4,000 - $8, 000, depending on the quality of the craftsmanship. If it were a repro made after WWII (most likely imho) it would be worth even less than $4,000.

to note: 'antique auctions' are notorious for selling reproductions and items that aren't even antiques. When a dealer tells you it was bought at an "antique auction", rather than "at auction", that is a minor red flag. For one thing, if it were a reputable antique dealers auction and not some barn in the country, it would have listed in their catalog if it were a repro, and the estimated date of manufacture, and said dealer would know that information, that they might not be forthcoming about that, is also a red flag. When ever a dealer defers dating a piece with "I was told it's...", or "I bought it from..." 9 times out of 10 that can be translated to "I know it's a cheap reproduction, but if I tell you that then you won't buy it, so it's better if I play dumb and innocent and let you believe you are getting the deal of a life time and I am the one getting screwed."

This post was edited by Lilylore on Fri, Nov 21, 14 at 11:47

I want to add another note. This appears to be from a Craigs List ad, no? And since I don't have the information and wording from the seller (firm, must sell, etc) or the ridiculous amount they are probably asking for it, I can't really help you.

I doubt very much that anyone here, who might be interested in this piece, hasn't already checking their local cragslist ads, and if they saw it, probably thought -they're asking way too much money. Which is why you may have come here?

It's not from craigslist and they guy wants $5,000 for the set. So the only way I can look into value is to see some markings on furniture? What are usually locations of markings? Sorry, I do not understand anything about antique. Wording is general and I went to see it myself. The guy just bought it at estate or some other auction for looks 25 years ago and paid $9,000

This post was edited by syavik on Fri, Nov 21, 14 at 14:13

These chairs are still being manufactured, my link above is to a furniture store that has them in their catalog. They are line-for-line exact to the OP's.
Casey

Thank you for all your help

a follow up. if this furniture has any age to them then they've been refinished, or have never been used. every piece is too clean and uniform. chair backs develop dirt and oil build up quickly. ( a.k.a patina). the table feet get scuffed and nicked.

if you want to narrow down the age a bit.
crawl under the table , look up at the top of the pedestal to the large board that fasten's to the table top.( you see it on your 2nd pic.) look at
the screws that hold all this together . phillips screws started mid 20th century. whatever the screw is , does the slot have any ware to it? if it does then the table's been disassembled before.
while you're down there, look for evidence of pulled out staples. if so, that could be where your id tag went to. it also means the table's not as high end as presented.
again, any manufacture that has any bragging rights will stamp his logo.

I'm pretty sure these are modern "in the style of" chairs. The back legs on period originals would be very simple, almost a sword-blade shape, not carved and elaborate. 18th-century chairs were meant to be shoved back against a wall when not in use, so the back legs are very plain.

This does not mean that these are not nice chairs, however! And possibly vintage. If you like them and the set is in good shape, $5,000 for a good-quality dining room set is a bargain.

I did a little more research after checking the link to pafur (thanks to sombreuil_mongrel). First of all, I wouldn't call this style "Chinese Chippendale", though that is a moot point. Also, these are not "antiques" so get that idea out of your head! NO NOT NEVER WERE ANTIQUE!!!

Search Google for
Chippendale dining room
and click Shopping

Brand new chairs like this are going for about $200-300 the tables from about 500-1,000. It doesn't matter if the seller paid too much for them, or even what he says he paid. In fact I have never met a seller who was honest about what they paid. So never use the "I paid $$$$ for them" as a basis of what you are willing to pay. It could just be BS, anyway. And what if they paid too much? You shouldn't be responsible for his mistake because he overpaid 20 years ago!

So, lets get to my 'used goods' formula.
10 chairs at 300 ea. = $3,000
1 table at $1,000 = $1,000.
$1,000 + $3,000 = $4,000+shipping.

The seller is probably asking more than retail for brand new today. Considering that stores often have half off sales, the top end of a used price should be at most $2,000, so really, if you look for them on sale, you should find them at that price, so less than $2,000 is the price you should expect to pay for used.

If the seller has listed the price at "firm" -forget it. For. Get. It. They are trying to find a fool to buy it at an inflated price, which is usually the case with "firm" priced goods.

If you are truly interested in the set, show up with a van and a friend to move the set, so if you and the seller can agree on a price, you can move it then and there. Don't let the friend talk at all, two people talking back and forth to a seller will piss him off. If you have to bring some macho dude, who thinks he can wheel and deal like a Pawn Star and who can't keep his mouth shut, make him sit in the van while you go inside to negotiate, a single person will probably have a better chance and two only work if you play 'good cop" 'bad cop", ie You (the buyer) says to the bad cop "I love it", the macho bad cop says "it won't fit in our house" to you (he never talks directly to the seller, only to you!!!). Teary eyed to the seller, you say, "what can I do, he won't let me buy it, will you accept...", the bad cop always bullies you, never the seller.

Look the set over for cracks, teetering, loose chairs, Check every single chair, not just one, especially the chairs tucked away or hard to get at. get on your hands and knees and crawl under to look at the table legs for cracks and repairs, and then press the top of the table to test the table legs, this type of leg is notorious for falling apart, breaking or getting loose and wobbly. If the table is wobbly, or legs show repair, don't walk, but RUN out the door! It isn't worth $100.

Next, tell the seller you think you might be able to get this set for $5,000 new. Don't accuse him of cheating or lying to you or not knowing 'what he paid'. If he gets upset and says, "don't you believe I paid $9,000" answer yes, always start every response with the word 'yes' even if what follows is a 'no' answer, "Yes, I believe you, but it seems that prices for this kind of furniture has drooped because most people want modern now." "Yes, $5,000, is a reasonable price, but I can only afford $1,000." etc.

After he gets done huffing and puffing, and after you get done crying about how you're a poor single mom, simpering and stroking his ego (you have such beautiful things in your house, you have such exquisite taste, people just don't understand good design anymore, like you do), ask him, "But what will you really take? What's your lowest price?"

If it's well enough under $2,000, shake his hand and buy it. If it's over $2,000. Tell him, I only have $1,200, will you take $1,200 cash, right now and we will move it out this instant? (you can leave the money with your friend if you are afraid of taking it inside, but do have the cash money in your purse, not a check and not "I can go to the ATM." Don't 'hold' anything more than $1,200 with you or what you are willing to spend, or, if you're willing to pay more, only hold $1,200 and have your friend hold $200, so if push comes to shove you can ask your friend, "have you got $200 I can borrow so I can pay the man $1,400?" If the seller says he couldn't possibly sell it for $1,400, or "I'd rather give it to .... before I'd sell it for that" Say, "I understand, but if you do change your mind I might still be interested and you can call me because my offer of $1,200 stands." and give him your number. If he says "you can make payments..." or :"can't you borrow the money from..." or "if you get more money.." smile and say, "yes, thank you, but my offer of $1,200 for a dinning room set is the most I can pay right now, so, I am going to keep looking for a set I love as much as this one, if you decide to accept my offer please feel free to give me a call, and if I haven't found another set, I might still be interested in this one."

If this doesn't work, you should look for this same type of set brand new. -you might be better off in the long run.

This post was edited by Lilylore on Sat, Nov 22, 14 at 16:10

Where can you buy a solid mahogany three pedestal table that's 12ft long for $1000?
I can send business their way. You must be joking.

I knew they were chinese chippendale when I saw them, that's how I knew what search term to use and find them in under a minute. Pretty good recall after that class I took around 1981. (History of American Decorative Arts)
Casey

Posted by sombreuil_mongrel: Where can you buy a solid mahogany three pedestal table that's 12ft long for $1000?

Who ever said anything about 'SOLID' mahogany. Did I miss something. Are you able to read things what I can't, because I can not find the word 'solid' in any of the OPs descriptions, or in my post's either.

Posted by sombreuil_mongrel: I knew they were chinese chippendale when I saw them, that's how I knew what search term to use and find them in under a minute. Pretty good recall after that class I took around 1981. (History of American Decorative Arts)

I am duly impressed by your recall of an experience with a class on the History of American Decorative Arts, circa 1981. But, I still wonder how well this design ascribes to the "Chinese" designs published by Chippendale? I usually ascribe the more open fretwork, rather than splat, with Chinese Chippendale, and definitely not the ball and claw, but rather a straight molded leg.

A lot of hogge-podge Chippendale is often called "Chinese", by dealers who think the term is exotic and will sell a piece better, and granted, in the 18th cent., furniture makers did pick and choose elements from his catalog, But, like I said,I wouldn't call it "Chinese", but you are welcome to call it what ever you wish; however, calling it Chinese Chippendale because some ignorant or greedy dealer has done so, doesn't hold water. I wonder which page of which Chippendale book your instructor was talking about when he called this particular style leg and splat "Chinese Chippendale"?

Here is a link that might be useful: Identifying Furniture Styles

This post was edited by Lilylore on Sat, Nov 22, 14 at 15:45

Found this set at less than $800:
http://www.nationalfurnishing.com/cgi-bin/ccp51/cp-app.cgi?rrc=N&affl=&pg=ste_prod&ref=ds2516ml
On the other hand, this is over $13,000:
http://www.mbwfurniture.com/acme-9-piece-chippendale-cherry-complete-dining-room-suite/
And almost the identical thing for $3,400:
http://www.mmfurniture.com/large-burl-mahoganychippendale-dining-table-mm-signature-mm-cdt3-5rb.html

Lol fori that's a big NO! And lily my dear...I was might not have been talking about you :p. That mongrel might have been the person I was wondering about.

Casey...I have to agree. If the table is ten feet and wood I could sell it all day long!

Op...I don't meet many people with dining rooms that big but being one of those...I will say that I've priced a lot of tables and even if it's repro, of its solid wood and in good shape it's worth considering.

As to antiques...my 12' table is antique and its veneer :). So as long as it's not particle board or something its a nice option to consider. I think it is a heck of a lot better than most modern crap you see out there now a days...but it would really be lovely if you recovered the chairs with a fabulous tapestry to bring them from blah to woo hoo.

colleenoz, though I didn't find the exact same set, I agree that the mmfurniture set is almost identical, and my estimate of $4,000+shipping, was a guess that I was rounding up. If the mmfurniture set at $3,400, were to go on sale at %40 off, it would be $2,040, in fact they have a "match the price" link on the page.

People sometimes use the term 'Antique', when they really mean old and run down. As a descriptive, the term is vague. But according to U.S. Customs, an antique has to be over 100 years old, and that's the only legal use of the term in the U.S. (In most of Europe it has to be 200). Yes, igloochic, a set like this made in 1914 or before might very well be much more solid than those made today. However, a set like this made in the 1960s could easily be beyond it's prime. They did make garbage in the 1960s as well as high end, so age isn't the only determination of whether a piece is well made. However, since usually only the good pieces survive, people tend to think that everything made in the olden days was better. They made garbage furniture in 1914, too, but you'll never see it unless you go digging in the dump.

And igloochic my dear... not much of an apology, if that even was what that was.

Here is a link that might be useful: mmfurniture

Lily, love your detailed information.

Casey, I always appreciate how knowledgeable, helpful and gracious your comments are.

Casey, it is really amazing that you found that exact set. Pretty good recall of 1981 class, yup the brain is still sharp! The original poster should definitely contact Paramount Furniture to find the price of the new set and compare it to the local set for sale. I would imagine the shipping on the triple pedestal table and twelve chairs would be costly. Good to see you igloochic. :)