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cotehele_gw

Heat source for a wok & best oven for baking/baking stone use?

16 years ago

I am deciding on kitchen cooking appliances. I am out of my depth because I've cooked on electric coil for 25 years and countertop induction for 18 months. We are vegetarian. As much as possible, our meals are made from scratch. I use a wok-shaped chefs pan for quick cooking vegetables for pasta, adding to sauces & gravies as well as stir frying. Induction is okay for that, but I am wondering if one gas burner would be better. I am thinking: 30'' Miele induction cooktop, gas wok burner, 30'' under-counter oven. If I don't get a wok burner, I would get the 36'' Miele because it has a larger /higher wattage burner. Thanks for your help. I really appreciate this.

Judy

The hotter the better for wok cooking, right? How many BTUs are necessary? Is the extra $1,000 worth the higher heat?

Miele: 650 BTU to 16,00 BTU. $ 949

Gaggenau: 1,000 BTU to 17,000 BTU $1,299

DCS: 30,000 BTU $1,919

Capital: 35,000 BTU $1,850

Viking: 27,500 BTU $2,500

The oven is another quandary. I do most of my daily baking for just the two of us in a cuissinart brick oven. But I need a larger oven for breads, large casseroles, and large baking stone (pizza, pita, breads). I had settled on an Electrolux when I was not considering adding gas. The gas line is practically under where the cooktop will be. Would a gas oven be better for my needs? I would consider any oven you recommend. Bluestar, American Range, Miele, Viking, Wolf?

Thanks!!

Comments (14)

  • 16 years ago

    We selected a mix of gas & induction to get the best of both. Certainly the DCS gas wok & an induction cooktop will work well. I think you want at least 30,000 BTU for a serious wok burner.

    Cooktek makes powerful induction cooktops, including two versions of built-in wok burners; the price is reasonable & made in the USA.

    You realize that you will need a robust vent hood over all your cooking units? Putting your proposed units side by side means you need a hood at least 60" to 66" wide. Separating them means a separate hood for each.

    We ended up going the other way: Gaggenau induction single burner (about 32,000 BTU) next to an all-gas DCS 36" range (17,500 BTU on 4 burners, 12,500 on 2). We intended the induction for wok cooking but since it is flat we use it every day. The Gagg cooktop makes a buzzing noise which I don't like, but it gets masked by the hood fan, and the power is amazing. DH really wanted a gas rangetop, and we ended up getting the range for the giant 36" oven. We put a Gagg teppanyaki grill/griddle unit on the other side of our range, so asthetics factored into why we chose the Gagg induction over the Cooktek.

    We also have a Gaggenau electric convection wall oven, which is fantastic. This oven can utilize a separate plug in element & baking stone, but these are accessories and expensive.

    Here is a link that might be useful: Cooktek wok units

  • 16 years ago

    a year ago, i was where you are now. after reading volumes of consumer reviews and constant checking between brands, i decided on a 30" single electric oven (undercounter), 30" master chef electric cooktop, and a complimentary speed oven, all miele. i didn't look so closely at the btu's because my understanding is that more heat is generated with electric than gas overall. but to cover myself, i have the one induction burner on the cooktop, where i would do all my high heat cooking anyway. (remember with induction, the pan has to be making contact with the burner for the magnetic energy to flow) reviews of miele products, and their after service, are consistently excellent. and this is primarily why i chose the brand.

    as for baking, i've read that bakers prefer electric over a gas oven for it's stable and less-fluctuating temperatures. i would've lked a gas cooktop (or even a dual fuel range), but i didn't want to fool with getting a new gas line in.

    one warning i would give you is that, depending on your lower cabinet height and the thickness of your countertop, electric cooktops don't necessarily all fit over undercounter ovens, even within the same brand line. i had a little trouble deciding on the cooktop for this reason.

  • 16 years ago

    gizmonike, I think I was just was looking at your beautiful kitchen. I would love the flexibility. I am the lone cook; DH can burn frozen pizza! I'd have a hard time tipping the cost/benefit ratio argument in my direction for a wok, grill/griddle and gas range. The Gaggenau oven has features I would love, but it is a little over my budget. You have made me more resolute in my quest for induction and gas!

    nolamom, all the research makes my head spin! Glad to know you came out on the other side with good results. Cooking on induction, albeit one hob, for so long, I have accumulated pans that work well. I am such a messy cook, the glass top vs. all the nooks and crannies of a gas unit is a huge mark on the plus side. Thanks for the heads up. I've been watching, but still, I would hate to have that happen.

    Judy

  • 16 years ago

    I was in the same spot several months ago and finally I went to a cooking demo put on by the Wolf chef. He cooked on all of their equipment and we asked lots of questions. I decided on a 15 inch induction module, 15 inch gas, and a steamer and a e-series oven. I can't wait until they are in to start playing.

  • 16 years ago

    Great suggestion, datura!

  • 16 years ago

    my appliances have yet to be installed. but am wondering...what pots and pans work well with induction, in your experience? any particular brand? do you use creuset (i've heard that they sometimes don't always work)? i've got one creuset dutch oven i depend on for 50% of my meals--i'd hate to give that up!! already i'm sad that my mother's 70's era farberware aren't compatible..

  • 16 years ago

    Nolamom, Le Creuset cast iron works fine on induction. That is, mine works fine on my little countertop unit. I'm pretty sure my matching steel kettle works too, but haven't used it lately (it was a present, I rarely make tea). Obviously, the stoneware doesn't. :)

    Judy, I think your best bet would be to take your wok to showrooms where they have things hooked up. A Cooktek wok burner is a great induction choice for a budget--great power and the dimple to rest the wok in, but it also requires a lot of cabinet space underneath for air circulation. But test out the cooktops you're looking at. Most of the current ones have a lot of power on at least one burner, and might be sufficient for your needs. The big problem is that round bottomed woks aren't the most efficient on flat induction, and flat bottomed woks don't handle quite the same way as a "real" woks. But if you can get to a Miele showroom, or somewhere else it's installed, and give it a try, you might find that you like it fine with the wok.

    The reason I'm suggesting this is that if you do like it you could not only save some space if you didn't need the extra wok burner, but you might be able to save enough money to get the Gaggenau oven. :) (Don't mind me--I'm a rabid Gaggenau oven fan.)

    But having a spare gas burner is also useful if you have a power outage, want to flame roast veggies, etc., not just wokking.

  • 16 years ago

    Nolamom, I was using a 35 yo set of club aluminum when my electric coil range died. Reading the gushing praises of induction peaked my curiosity. I bought a countertop unit, but had no pans that would work. The first few pans I bought were cast iron: small Lodge skillet and Chefmate (Target) dutch oven. I like the cast iron and added pieces as I found them on sale or at an affordable price. I have two Lodge enameled pieces and two Staub Cocette pots, which are my favorite. Your Le Creuset should be wonderful on induction. I also have a Kitchenaid non-stick skillet and a Joyce Chen chef's pan. I find I use the JC pan the most often. The oxo tea kettle works, too.

    plllog, I am so shy, I would be mortified to cook in a showroom even if the chef was the only person watching/helping. An appliance store chef showed me the induction cooktops. He liked cooking on the Miele and Wolf, and said any of their induction brands were nice to use.

    My only reason for choosing the 36'' Miele is the mid-sized burners accommodate a 9'' (2100W-2900W) vs.8'' (1700W-2250W) pan. The Mr. Induction I am using now is 1300W. It's slower to boil a big pot of water than the large electric coil on the stove. Maybe I don't need the higher wattage of the 36'' unit. The gas burner would be fairly high heat.

    The gas burner is tempting because it has other uses. I have not found any grill/griddle plates that work with induction because the bottom is slightly recessed and would not touch the burner. Couldn't I use the gas burner with a grill plate? Veggies are roasted in the oven; I'd like to try flame roasting! I am trying new things all the time, so who knows what other uses I'd find for the gas burner:D I am leaning toward a 30'' Miele induction and Miele multi-use gas module.

    I can see I do need to talk to a chef about ovens!

    Judy

  • 16 years ago

    i had read on the internet about le creuset not working on a viking portable induction burner. it's good to hear otherwise. telling from the varied brands of pots and pans you use on your induction, i shouldn't have too much of an issue finding compatible pieces (as long as a magnet sticks to it, right?). thanks!

  • 16 years ago

    Judy, it's not so much the higher wattage on the medium burners that you need as on the big one. You should be able to use a flat bottomed wok on that and get plenty of power. I understand shy, but they really are there to help you. The Miele showroom in Beverly Hills is an especially friendly space, and considering its location I have to think that that's corporate policy!

    Hm... above statement was made without thinking through your way of cooking. The wattage on the mediums is important if you have a really big pan that you're transferring from the wok into, so want to wok on one of the smaller burners.

    If you're not ready to cook something yourself in the showroom, ask for a personal demonstration. Even boiling water should give you a good idea about the heat and responsiveness. Could you work up the courage to make an appointment and go watch the salesman or chef use the unit? Or get a pushy friend to come along and speak for you? It's important for you to be happy with your choices, and one of the best ways to do that is to actually see the appliances in action.

    Re gas, yes, you can use the wok burner with a grill plate, but there are single sided ones that you can easily use on induction. Also, some of the double sided ones with shallower edges work okay as well, at least on some cooktops. I have always roasted eggplants and peppers on the gas flame to get them charred on the outside and not overcooked on the inside (a distinction which may just show up my lacks as a cook in not being able to do this in an oven). I have a little barbecue grate that's made for the purpose. It's a trick that's not for the faint of cleaning, however.

    Nolamom, the magnet test is a great way to assess whether the pots you have will work with induction, but if you're buying new it's probably worth your while to get pots that are known to work particularly well. Since I already have a lot of Le Creuset (works great with '60's coils, gas and induction all and I love the enamel), I don't know the specifics. Do a search here and you'll find recommendations.

    Some steel cookware has different amounts of steel in the sides of the pan and the bottom, so it cooks a little differently than one that's all the same. Some have more steel than others. Etc. Cast iron is pretty much cast iron, though weight and thickness will effect the way a particular pan works in comparison to another. Enamel shouldn't matter (it's an insulator but I haven't heard that it impedes magnetism). I have a little Turkish coffee pot which is stainless but doesn't attract a magnet at all. I can't remember if I tested it on Mr. Induction (all this stuff is packed for demo), but I'm pretty sure it won't work. :) Anyway, what I'm trying to say is if you're buying something new, make sure it will work well rather than just work.

  • 16 years ago

    plllog-sorry this is so late. I've had a very fun day! A friend and I went to the appliance store and spent the afternoon with the chef. We talked about everything related to cooking and appliances. I have a good plan that should cover all the cooking needs. I am so excited! That said, I am almost afraid to say what I am planning for fear there will be a glitch or an unwise choice. I don't want to start all over again. ;o( But, oh well here goes...

    Miele 30'' Induction Cooktop
    Wolf gas multifunction burner
    Miele 30'' Master Chef Oven

    I am also likely getting a Miele DW

    The chef said he uses a Le Creuset double sided grill/griddle on induction. It has a lower profile than the Lodge Logic I have.

    Thanks for all your help!!!

  • 16 years ago

    cotehele,
    I also ordered the Wolf gas multifunction burner. I need to get a wok for it. Are you getting a flat or a round bottom one?

  • 16 years ago

    datura - A flat bottom wok works on an induction burner. The Miele will get as hot as the gas unit, but I don't think the heat distribution the same. A round bottom wok works best. Carbon steel works best, I've been told. The flat bottom wok I use now is carbon steel. You might check the Cooking Forum. Cloud swift among others have a lot of experience using a wok. They could answer your questions better than I. I cross-posted the same question on the cooking forum. The link is below.
    Good luck with your kitchen and appliances. Let me know how you like the set-up!

    Judy

    Here is a link that might be useful: Cooking Forum Thread

  • 16 years ago

    Judy, that's excellent news!!

    Those are excellent choices and I can't imagine you'll have any regrets. I'm so glad you got a chance to go talk to the chef.