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imacurvygrrl

Kitchen granite distress - LONG and venting

13 years ago

Well, things haven't been perfect with the new house, but in comparison the issues we've had up until now have been minor. The exception being the tile in our master bathroom, where they used the wrong grout on floor and walls, and then missed a row of decorative tile. The builder is still dealing with the tile vendor, and I know he'll stay on them until things are right.

What I'm incredibly distressed about right now is my kitchen. We spent months (as many of us do) looking for the right granite. It was something we'd been wanting for years but it's exotic and really required a large island to get the full effect. Now, finally, in this new house, we have a very large island that would show off the granite. We searched all over for the perfect slabs, mostly because it was a difficult granite to find and every slab we saw was different. And we needed multiple (three!) slabs, so not only did the distributor have to have a slab we liked, they had to have at least three. Finally found the slabs, spent a really long time with the fabricator, someone the builder hadn't contracted with directly before, but who had worked in a previous house he built (fabricator contracted directly with the owner at the time). The builder said "He does good work, but he's a pain in the ass to deal with because he's terrible with his schedule." Okay, nothing new, scheduling with all these vendors has been painful. But good work, that's important, especially since we're looking at expensive exotic granite.

Contract detailed out in a long 3 hour meeting. Specifications detailed out, fabricator says only HE (the owner) will cut the exotic granite because it costs so much. All is well, builder signs approved contract. Fabricator sits on his butt, doesn't get the granite in his shop, so we're behind on the schedule. No big shock. Finally gets the granite in his shop and we go to do the layout with him. This guy is a pain, he's a know-it-all, and can't answer a yes or no question in less than 20 minutes. We discuss how we want the island laid out, and he says he'll do it in one slab. Says it will be tough, but it's a beautiful piece of stone and deserves to be in one big slab. He'll do it, he says, because it's "art". We okay that, and we spend time looking at the patterns and veining on the granite to figure out where we want the cut-out for the sink. The fabricator thinks it should go on one side, but we want it on the opposite side. We're looking to show off certain areas of the granite that we like. He sort of disagrees (20 minute diatribe) but says he'll do what we want. We mark the area for the sink with tape with a big + sign. At the last minute, I ask DH to take a picture of the granite because I want to show it off to people. Pictures taken, we move on to talk about remnants for the master bathroom. As we're talking, storms are coming in, power goes out, boom, end of meeting. Not a huge deal, we stand in the emergency lights and talk about overhang and edging for the bathroom. Power doesn't come back on so we leave.

Roll forward a week, builder says "come on site tomorrow to approve where faucets are going". So off we go today, and we're excited as hell. Big beautiful slab of granite going on the island...cannot WAIT. See it coming? Do you? I can't even imagine.

Yes, he did the island backwards. Cut out the sink where HE originally said it should go, and completely denied that we wanted it the other way. Yes, the slab is in one piece, which is kind of a miracle and we were told it was a beast to do. But now the areas we wanted to show off are either cut off or hidden under where the bar will go (and behind the sink), and the area we DIDN'T like is now front and center. Literally, I walked in the door from the garage, through our short mudroom and into the kitchen, and I wanted to weep within 10 seconds. I saw it right away. I was devastated. The fabricator was out of the room and I told the builder immediately it was wrong. He smiled like I was joking, then his face fell when he realized I was serious.

The fabricator argued with me briefly, but I whipped out my camera and showed him the pictures. He denied initially that what I had was the "final" marking, but there were FOUR of us with him at the shop to template, and we all knew he was wrong. I walked out and called DH, who was equally as upset. We paid a lot of money for the granite and it was wrong, and I couldn't deal with it the way it was. We could have paid 1/4 of what we did and gotten a nicer end result because of the pattern that was left on the granite.

When I told the fabricator I expected it to be redone (in between phone guys doing repairs, builder telling me we had more lighting issues, DH ringing through on the phone over and over), he got upset. Told me he would do it, but he would not do it in one slab again. He refused, even though it was something he promised. My builder explained the guy didn't want to take a chance ruining a 2nd slab that he would have to eat the cost of. But it's not MY fault he has to eat the cost of this slab. He messed up, he didn't take appropriate notes or whatever...

And we're not even sure if he can get another slab of this stone, he won't know until MONDAY. And when we picked this slab for the island, we had four to choose from to select the nicest piece. Now we're going to get whatever the distributor has, which could be not nearly as nice. No choice, just "plop" here it is. And he now is going to put a seam right across the center of the island.

Should I be requiring him to do the island in one slab again as he originally promised? We're paying a lot of money and should be getting what we paid for. We did due diligence, went to templating, reviewed contracts, used a known quantity...and it's a disaster. I'm not even all that thrilled with work he did on the perimeter with the seams and such, but I was so devastated by the island--the center piece of the kitchen--that I couldn't concentrate on anything else.

The fabricator spent probably 20 minutes with me telling me he tried to do good, look at the beautiful edges, look at the back splashes, look at the seams (which I thought were just average)...and how he WANTED to do the island in one piece to make us happy! Like HE was the one being wronged. I had to go deal with the phone guy and when I got back, I found out the fabricator got annoyed, and actually left the site, leaving his guys behind to drill the holes for the sink on the perimeter and in the master. He actually left without saying anything, just kind of stormed off.

Sorry, sorry, guess I needed to do more venting than I thought. The kitchen was supposed to be the center-piece of the house...we budgeted and spent the majority of our allowances there, sacrificing elsewhere for it. But really, anyone? Should I just let it go and allow him to do the island in two pieces? Do I force him to follow through and do what he promised, knowing if the second slab breaks that we'd be screwed?

Comments (23)

  • 13 years ago
    last modified: 10 years ago

    This story is just wrong all over the place. He made a mistake, now he is going to force you to get a slab you don't want, do bad seams and give you an imperfect and improper job. Nope. No way. Not going to happen. Especially when this was such a high dollar area for you. That's the first thing you need to say to yourself and commit to. Just not going to happen, no matter what. Unless of course he wants his paycheck written backwards, with the 0's first or his paycheck cut in half with a nice seam in the center!

    If it were me, I would:
    1) Make clear you will not settle for any slab of granite other than one you love. They can put plywood down until you find the perfect slab.
    2) Inform them that they will be doing the island in one piece as promised. No seams. With the perfect granite you find.
    3) Let them know if they cannot comply with #1 and #2, you will expect a full refund of your money and you will find an alternate supplier. Live w/ plywood until you do
    4) Make sure the other seams comply with marble institute guidelines and industry standards. If they don't, they can just darn well redo those too while they are at it.

    We, too, are having issues w/ tile and granite people and our granite hasn't even been installed yet. My latest resolution was a written request that they choose one of two options: either agree in writing to have my island seam look the way pictured seams showed (pictures attached) and, if they tried and failed, pay for the cost of me bringing in someone else to repair their work if it didn't meet my satisfaction OR they could sell me the slabs, credit me for install and I would find someone who had more confidence in. I suspect they don't like me very much and had a few choice words to say about me at the meeting they had to deal with my issues today. I don't give a darn.

    You cannot let this go as it will drive you crazy every single time you go into the kitchen forever. You cannot let this go because when you pay for something to be done, you DESERVE to get what you pay for.

    Do you have a contract or something in writing where he promised to do it in one piece? And have you paid him? I hope the answer is yes and no. Even if you don't have a written contract, an oral contract should suffice.

  • 13 years ago
    last modified: 10 years ago

    oh, curvy girl, I just wanted to offer my support, and tell you that I feel so badly for you! We also had a granite issue, but we're living with it because we didn't do NEARLY as much research as you did with your granite. Hang in there, and hopefully this will be resolved soon!

  • 13 years ago
    last modified: 10 years ago

    Beagles, you are so thorough and I'm very grateful. I'm really so upset. What's worse is this same fabricator is going to do the install for my parents' house next door with exotic material there, too. He's got both jobs and yet we're still getting this crappy treatment. It's appalling.

    We have a contract (builder signed it, builder made partial payment) but he did not write in the contract about the single piece of granite for the island. And during the templating, he did not give us anything written, so I have nothing to prove that the island has to be in one big piece. We made him write everything else down, all the overhangs, reveals, edges, steel reinforcements for the sinks, all the holes we needed drilled... But I think because he was the one who insisted on doing the one big piece for the island, we never looked to see if it was written anywhere.

    I'm heartbroken because nothing about this supposedly fantastic kitchen is going as planned. It's been disappointment after disappointment, despite how much time, research, energy, and money we've put into it. I know others will walk in and be awed, but I feel like I'm forever going to be cataloging the errors I see everywhere.

    We're going to go over everything with him again when we go to his shop to view the new slab, IF he can get it. At that point, I'll need to be prepared with all my demands.

    On top of everything, we're moving this weekend into temporary digs for a couple of weeks...not like we have nothing else to be thinking about. And with this delay, it means even longer with relatives...fun!

    (Builder just called to tell me the plumber says the blanco antrhacite waste strainer baskets we bought--after I TALKED to Blanco in advance to confirm they'd work--won't work with our disposal. Goody, now we have blinding chrome waste strainer baskets in our anthracite silgranite sinks with everything else being stainless steel in the kitchen. Pardon me while I go cry some more...)

    Thanks, Juniork. Seems to be that the stress is finally overtaking me and everything is going wrong at once. Up until now, it's been pretty quiet and issues have been minor. Now it's all falling down at the worst time. Ah, the joys of home building!

  • 13 years ago
    last modified: 10 years ago

    Too much history of bad faith performance. I would find another granite supplier and start over making it clear in writing what you want and don't want every step of the way.

  • 13 years ago
    last modified: 10 years ago

    On the bright side, the awful granite will make it much easier for you to wow your guests with your cooking skills.

  • 13 years ago
    last modified: 10 years ago

    I'm sorry to hear about that granite issue. Sounds like he didn't listen at all or failed to communicate if there was a reason he couldn't meet both the 1 slab and the other spots like you wanted.

    I really hope you can come to a good resolution on this. Glad you had the picture too that shows it in a different spot. Sounds to me like he should be eating this one since it really is his mistake.

    As for the strainer for the Blanco sink - the way you wrote it you said it was the garbage disposal that couldn't work with it and I'm not sure how Blanco could confirm that.

  • 13 years ago
    last modified: 10 years ago

    Just stand firm and do not accept anything less than what you want. If he cannot or will not do it, then don't let him install anything else. Get your money back since you do have proof that this slab is not installed according to specifications and find someone else who can do what you want. Do not give in. State your requirements and do not waiver.

    Disposals aren't that expensive. If this one won't look right, get a different one. Tell your contractor to find you one that WILL work and be stainless.

  • 13 years ago
    last modified: 10 years ago

    curvy girl, I'm so sorry for what you have been put through with your fabricators. We had our granite and marble installed Monday and I was holding my breath as I didn't know anything about them other than my KD used them. They were there over 8 hours and that's not counting the 2+hr drive to get to my home from Virginia and they did a fabulous jpb. Not everything is going well, had 1,200 sq feet of hardwood ripped out last week, won't even get into that. Threatened our builder last night via email that his next draw will be minus the hardwood (which was pd last draw) and there in no way in hell, I"m giving him the plumbing allowance (who hasn't shown up in 2 weeks) even though he keeps telling me the fixtures are in the garage, 4 bathrooms, a kitchen and not one is functional. Haven't heard a peep from him all day.

    I'm thinking that all the things that went really well were due to the fact that I chose not to use the builder's people, I went with my own.

    I know there are worst things out there, I've been through them but not relating to building a home, it's just the sloppy "way" things are done in this area and I won't even begin to elaborate on that.

    Good Luck!!!!!

  • 13 years ago
    last modified: 10 years ago

    I heard from the fabricator this afternoon. We have an appointment on Monday to go to the distributor to look at what they have in stock in the same granite. It might even be the same lot, I'm not sure.

    Unfortunately, DH cannot get off of work, so at least my father is going with me. Not sure if my mother will be able to make it as she works full-time still also. They are both vested in this issue not only because, well, I'm their daughter, but also because he will be doing their granite (MAYBE) in about 30 days. I would have preferred DH to come, but schedules conflicted and I erred on the side of keeping the house from falling much further behind schedule. Besides, I'm more picky about the granite than DH, so as long as I get to see it, that's the important part. And as long as my camera is with me, well, proof is in the pictures, right?

    I thank everyone for their advice, it is very helpful. I am putting together all my thoughts and the contract and will go armed for bear on Monday. I want what he promised, and a big old seam down the middle of the island is not what he promised. If he couldn't do it, he should not have promised it. Whether it is the first slab or the third, he should deliver what he promised.

    The issue with the disposal, we bought the anthracite blanco disposal strainer that I thought was actually supposed to replace the disposal's original waste strainer. Blanco now tells me their part snaps over top of the metal one that the disposal comes with. So we just have to get the plumber to install it properly and all should be well with that. I had contacted Blanco before buying their strainer basket and they knew it was an Insinkerator disposal and their strainers are supposed to fit all Insinkerators.

    I appreciate all the support.

  • 13 years ago
    last modified: 10 years ago

    "making it clear in writing what you want and don't want every step of the way."

    And be prepared to pay for what you want.

  • 13 years ago
    last modified: 10 years ago

    How did your meeting go?

  • 13 years ago
    last modified: 10 years ago

    Brickeyee, we DID pay for what we wanted. It's not like we were scrimping with this fabricator, we asked for what we wanted and we were paying an appropriate amount. We did not just pick the cheap guy and go with him. And we actually talked with four different fabricators, one of whom we worked with in the past that we liked but they never got back to us after we asked them to get pricing on granite from one of THEIR distributors (versus using what they had in stock).

    Beagles, we went all the way out to the warehouse to see what they had left of the "lot" of granite. Unfortunately, what they had was the last piece in the grouping of originally 14 pieces. And it was the last one left behind for a reason. It had a huge chunk missing out of the top on one side, and the other side of the top had a bad fissure/crack. He said he would have to cut around those to use the slab.

    We had a long discussion about what slabs he had at his shop for my parents' job (the same granite) and decided to meet at his shop later in the evening to discuss our options.

    So back out to his shop this evening, with my parents in tow so we could make sure they didn't get left with bad parts for their job. In the end, we're able to make it work between the slabs he had for their job, plus the last slab at the warehouse--what was usable of it--to complete both jobs. We mapped out the island slab again, took pictures again, and then discussed how the bar top would be cut. And I told him I wanted the island in one slab, not in two pieces, and he said he would do it. He reminded me how hard it would be, and I reminded him that he said it would be done in one slab and how he'd already done it in one slab... He said he would have to bring "more guys" to lift it (last time he had five guys), but he said he would do it.

    Leaning on him to remind him not only of his word, but his boasting of how he's an "artiste" with this exotic granite worked pretty well. He's got quite an ego, and doesn't mind stroking it himself. So it was a good way to get him to agree without getting into a knock-down fight.

    I must admit, the island IS pretty darn big (roughly 109" x 65" w/o the bar top, and with a sink cut-out on a short edge), but he did it once and we'll see that he does it again. And not one fabricator we spoke to said it had to be in two pieces, though they may have when we got down to the nitty-gritty, who knows.

    Thanks for all the advice. Thursday is supposed to be install day, but he said if may have to wait until Friday depending on the schedules for his extra guys to move the island slab in one piece.

  • 13 years ago
    last modified: 10 years ago

    Here's hoping for a happy ending for you!

    Can't wait to see beautiful pictures of your installed island art!

  • 13 years ago
    last modified: 10 years ago

    I can feel for what you are going through. We too built what we called a "continent" instead of an island. It is over 9 feet on the long side and seems like it is similar dimensions as yours. This was/is the centerpiece of the kitchen and I basically designed everything around it. Long story short, after 2.5 yrs 2 cracks developed and we had the island and part of one counter replaced. The new color did not match the original one that was still in half the kitchen. Two different colors on the counters! One side of the stove was a tanish color and the other was tinged pink and the island was pink too! I was out of town at the time of install, so my very particular eye did not catch this during the install and my husband of course didn't even notice! I just couldn't live with it. The installer would not change it and said if we wanted it changed, we would have to pay for it. We ended up calling all the way to Italy where it came from and they ended up replacing it (at their cost) using another installer and replaced the entire kitchen AGAIN with whatever color I chose so it would all match. It was an ordeal, but finally after a month all the counters matched again and I even got an upgraded color. In the end your island will still be the WOW factor for your kitchen. Can't wait to see pictures.

  • 13 years ago
    last modified: 10 years ago

    Hello curvy girl,

    Please listen to what Renovator 8 says.

    I've dealt with subs for years and once you get into a contentious situation it's just best to find someone else that you can trust. And you won't be worrying about the new fabricator trying to cut corners to cover his losses.

    I really feel for you. Building is stressful. I built a number of spec houses and they were a piece of cake. But my own home was a nightmare.

    Anita

  • 13 years ago
    last modified: 10 years ago

    Did they install yesterday (Thursday) or are they installing today (Friday) as promised? I have my fingers crossed for you that everything goes RIGHT this time.

    How lucky for you that your parents has also ordered new countertops using the same granite. Not only did it give him some options for using the slab they'd originally picked out to do your island but, no doubt it didn't hurt your bargaining position any that he had to be aware that he could lose the sale to your parents as well as the one to you.

    Let us know how it all turns out! Can't wait to see pics.

  • 13 years ago
    last modified: 10 years ago

    ditto! Pix, Curvygirl!

  • 13 years ago
    last modified: 10 years ago

    Okay, I'm here! The thing is, apparently my saying we had been waiting more than two years to have this exact granite on a big beautiful island got to him. He told me as such three or four times just today.

    He had to push the install off by one day to make sure he had enough guys and was prepared for each step of bringing the slab into the house again. And crazy as it sounds, he took the original slab back out in one piece, too. So clearly it was do-able. And yes, he knew he still had my parents' job to do, so he could have lost a lot more money than just our business... And he also wants to do more business with our builder, so he really needed to get this job right.

    Here's the best picture I have of the whole slab. Sadly, it is when the new slab is leaning against a wall waiting for them to remove the old slab.

    Here's a long shot before the raised bar went in.

    Another long shot.

    With the raised bar.

    And a horrible blurry shot.

    We go back tomorrow (with DH in tow) so we hope to get better pictures. He's better at taking them than I am, so I'll come back and post again.

    I have step-by-step pictures of them bring the new slab in and reversing the process to take the old slab out in one piece. I also have video of them raising the new slab and setting it in place. It was quite a procedure and I will have to admit that several times I let out a gasp (and maybe one or two "oh sh*t!"s before they were done. The damn slab wobbled side-to-side a couple of times and scared the hell out of me. But in the end, they did it and it's gorgeous. Talk about a center-piece!

    The fabricator said he will also come back and fix one of the seams after I pointed out I wasn't happy with it. He had already fixed the other seam. And as he said to me, he's only working with three local custom home builders right now, he can't afford to have an unhappy customer. He IS trying to make things right. I can't say I'm completely thrilled with how he handled everything, but we're on the right track.

    Thanks to everyone for the advice. I know some of you said we should split and move on with another fabricator, but it would have been a huge deal on our end. If we HAD to, we would have, but we had hoped for a good end result without doing that.

  • 13 years ago
    last modified: 10 years ago

    OMG it looks MAGNIFICENT!!!! After moving, am just getting caught up on a few threads and read yours cringing..... am SO glad it seems to have turned out nicely!!!

    What incredible stone - seriously!! Can't wait to see clean clear pics!!!!!

    It'll soon all be over with - hang in there!

  • 13 years ago
    last modified: 10 years ago

    Yay! A happy ending!!

    We fired OUR granite fabricator this week and are on the hunt for a new one so I hope our own story turns out as well as yours!

  • 13 years ago
    last modified: 10 years ago

    Oh goodness, Beagles, I'm so sorry to hear that. I hope you find someone even better for your project and that it ends up magnificent. Your house pictures on the other thread are gorgeous, so I'm sure your kitchen will end up being the same!

  • 13 years ago
    last modified: 10 years ago

    I think it'll be OK. We are taking our blue bahia slabs w/ us to the new fabricator and we're going to make sure we find someone great. We fired ours before they ever even touched the granite after we saw the cr*ppy job they did on other seams in an open house we happened to visit and after they did some tile in the house and did a subpar job, necessitating that it all be torn out!

    We shall find out :) Thanks for the comments on the house :)

  • 13 years ago
    last modified: 10 years ago

    Here are better pictures. Backsplashes under the raised bar are not installed yet. Thanks to everyone. :)

    DH took these pictures yesterday. I hate to keep saying it, but the darn island is so big there's no good way to get it into a picture. From some angles, it looks like there's a seam in the countertop because you can't tell where the bar ends and the countertop below begins. Anyway, thanks to all for the suggestions, advice, and shoulders. Hopefully the install at my parents' house goes a lot better than ours did.