Unfortunately, many people don't seem to *get* it, and when you own a breed that has the potential to inflict such damage, it's especially important.

My DD had two indoor cats, that she raised from kittens, for the last seven years (Thelma and Louise). Last week, Louise slipped out of the house. DD went on a frantic search for her, as she saw the neighbors gate was open and they own a pit. She was too late and found Louise, in the alley, with stomach wounds that sealed her fate.

The neighbors saw the commotion and called the dog inside. They always leave the gate open. :(

Poor DD is so distraught and Thelma spends most of her days searching for her sister.

I know this is an owner's problem but I've known far too many people who have suffered permanent damage from this breed, including my best friend who was trying to break up a fight between one of them and her mother's small dog. Their jaws are like no other dog's.

Thank goodness you came out of it without any injuries.

I don't think it's the breed per se'. There are lots of breeds w/ the instinct to chase down animals small or otherwise especially those outside of their property lines.

I probably shouldn't have mentioned the breeds since they get such a bad rap over all because of loser owners. I do think that when you own one of 'those types' of breeds that you have take extra care and do extra 'PR Work' which is unfortunate. You're held to a higher standard.

I remember when my neighbors got her as a pup and they had concerns because of her breed. We talked to them alot and gave them books and explained that she came from a good place - all they had to do was provide a good, loving, consistant home and training, training, training which they have done. And it seemed clear to me that the owner of the other pit was very caring about his pets too.

If he reports the bite (and If treatment was sought on his end then reports were filed) now BOTH dogs will have a strike against them and be quarantined for 10 days (actually all 3 will).

You know you just have to think ahead and of all of the what if's to make sure your pet is housed/ contained properly. There are some things that are avoidable when planning is done properly.

When it comes to dogs there is always an Alpha Dog - hopefully it's the owner. Our sweet wonderful, gentle Rhodesian Ridgeback/ Mastiff mix who got along w/ all dogs sent me to the hospital when I broke up a fight between him and another dog that was staying w/ us. I always insisted on a gate protocol and DH wore me down about it this one time. When the fight broke out I was home alone w/ our new baby and I was in the middle of a dog fight between 2 dogs each 90+ lbs. There was just something about the visiting dog that our dog didn't like - I could see it in his eyes. DH has NEVER questioned me again about dog behaviour. It's always my way now.

Our dog wasn't even the Alpha dog in our house (our lab was) but he was tired of the other dog trying to subtly challenge his authority.

Oh man, that's crazy...it's sad to say, but those people are lucky that pit went for the dogs and not the boy. Which does happen. I can so relate. We also live in a small town, on a curved road that's starting to get busy (unfortunately). Cars drive through here way TOO fast. (like 6 accidents in 2 years & no way any of us can keep a mailbox up fast).

Anyways, the people across the street have 2 younger girls, 9 and 3, and 2 1 year old pit/boxer mix puppies and no fence. I think they assume that since they have 5 acres, it's plenty of room to run, so they don't need to closely supervise the older girl or leash their dogs. At least once or twice a month I end up calling them to say, "Uh your dogs are in the street and are going to get hit" or "Your dogs are playing catch me if you can with your daughter in the street!" Sadly, I know something tragic IS going to happen. It's unavoidable because of the curve, the way people drive here and the irresponsibility of these people. Oh, and here's the clincher...she runs a day care from her home!

Pitts have gotten somewhat of a bad rap, while they are naturally a more aggresive breed, it's people (over breeding, poor or lack of training, wrong environment) who are more at fault for these types of incidents, but it's the animal(s) who suffer. While a Pit Bull would not be my first choice of dog, especially if there are children in the house, I've seen many who are very sweet and docile because they were handled properly and lived in an appropriate setting.

I'm waiting for an incident like this to happen on my street, as my neighbor has two labs and a very aggressive 40lb mix that they let run loose in their front yard with no collars or anything. They have a nice fenced in backyard that they use on occasion.

The little aggressive dog likes to wander onto our yard frequently and will growl at me or my husband if we are trying to walk to or from our house. The dog has also gone after our dogs while they were on leash as we were on our front steps trying to leave to go for a walk.

We talked to our neighbor about it and it's just "oh my dogs would never do anything." I think I'm going to start throwing buckets of water on the dogs if they come onto my property.

It's a very frustrating situation.

When we lived in the city, I really worked with my lab so that she was completely awesome on walks with me. She is smart as a whip and we did voice commands for direction, sat down at intersections (I wanted her never to cross a street until commanded), ect.

Our favorite was walking to the lake to play (and share a granola bar which she loved) or walking to a nearby area that had tons of garage sales every Saturday. Even though she was impressive (people would stop us and tell me how smart my pup was), I still kept her on a leash.

Anyway, I was walking one evening past a house where a man was mowing his little yard. He had a nice fence, but his dog was on the lawn with him. The dog saw mine and attacked. I screamed. The man? He laughed.

Eventually he did call his dog back, but not until my dog was completely terrorized. The other dog was so fierce that all I could do was stand back and try not to get biten. I shouted something across the street at him, but I am not a shouter and it was something lame like, "You idiot! That is what fences are for! Put a shirt on too!"

It terrified my dog so much that she is scared of dogs (except her sisters which she 'raised'). It is so sad to see my beautiful black lab no longer enjoy things because of the fear.

I've been attacked more often, and hurt worse, by CHIHUAHUAS than I have by any of the several pits and Staffies I know - I'm utterly terrified of the needletoothed beasts. In junior high school a friend and I were attacked by a chihuahua that came barreling out an open doggie door. My friend's Achilles tendon was nearly severed and I was bitten several times trying to yank the little monster off her. (I'm rather lucky that I don't scar easily at all or else I'd look like Frankenstein. *wry grin*) My grandmother and great-grandmother both had chihuahuas and both would go right at you - I think everyone in the family had at least one bite scar. There is no breed that is 100% safe.

I don't care what dang breed of dog it is, or how "well behaved" it is, a dog should either be safely confined or on a secure leash that can't easily be slipped (for instance a martingale collar for a narrow-headed dog like a greyhound). Leash laws exist for a reason and IMO acreage isn't a guarantee that a dog's not going to get into trouble. We've had "little wanderers" picked up in our neighborhood that came from all the way across town. Personally, I prefer chest harnesses for out-and-about - it's harder for a dog to slip out of than a collar and in case of an "incident" you can stay further away from their heads while separating the dogs. Goku's sort of a natural Omega with other dogs because he never learned to "speak Dog" (one of our friends who has two autism-spectrum children nicknamed him our "Aspie dog" when it comes to other dogs, although he does wonderfully with adult humans *chuckle*) and dogs will sometimes threaten to come after him to reinforce that pecking order, but I can haul him out of the way by the back of the harness and while fending off the other dog with my cane and a good deep bellow.

Leashing dogs isn't enough...you MUST be physically able to handle them.

We took our dogs to a dog event where all dogs were leashed and well behaved. As we entered a booth to get our dogs licenses renewed, suddenly a very large boxer mix lunged at Max, my male Lab. He moved out of the way, and our ancient Schnauzer, Howard, was trampled by that big dog who grabbed hold of our female Lab, Zelda. He had her pinned down and was attacking her (totally unprovoked, we believe he was trying to get Max all along, but Zelda was closer). He was on a leash, but his owner, a woman who weighed about 110 lbs, couldn't hold him.

It was a mess...people falling, dogs screaming, people screaming...fortunately DH was able to jump in and tear that dog off Zelda. He got bit, Zelda needed stitches in her ear. There just happened to be a vet and an animal control officer there, too...so plenty of witnesses & help.

Animal control cited that woman for not being in control of her dog. He actually weighed more than she did, and had just a foo-foo collar on. She kept saying he never did anything like that before (yeah, I've heard THAT before!). She did pay our vet bills, but Z is still skittish.

Finally, I used to be a mail carrier and I can't tell you the number of smaller dogs that tried to attack me right after their owners said "Oh, s/he's a sweetie, s/he won't bite" Yeah right! Never trusted 'em and always made them put the dog in the house before I approached.

Paint Chips - that's just awful that your dog is afraid of other dogs now!

When I walk our sweet little Della-Doo I sigh when I see an approaching group of young girls or if I see a group I cross the street. They always swarm all over her when they see our sweetie and our sweetie didn't come from the greatest home either. It's just like all of the sudden there's 5 little girls on top of her! Under normal circumstances she wouldn't ever bite and luckily she likes/ trusts kids more than adults but a stranger is still a stranger to her and when there's a whole bunch it's even worse. If I can't avoid them I try to get their attention first and tell them one at a time and very slowly and quietly - not to rush her and it's always fine, but although I'm sure I know, well really who does?

I completely agree that people need to (a) restrain and (b) be able to control their dogs. I've been bitten by a roving chihuahua. I've been chased by a dog who ran out of its yard after me while I was out on a run in my previous neighborhood. That dog's owner was standing outside, watering his plants, when his dog took off after me, literally nipping at my heels. I stopped, pretty much frozen in fear, and the guy came after his dog, telling me all the while, "Ah, he's not gonna hurt you -- he just wants to play" -- acting like I was a fool for being so frightened (which only served to make me angry).

*****Leashing dogs isn't enough...you MUST be physically able to handle them. *****

Boy you said it, pesky.

My DH was walking our dog, saw a woman approaching with her dog and daughter. He stepped off the sidewalk onto the parkway with our dog seated at his side to let them pass. Her dog, a German shepherd, turned his head to sniff as he pased our dog and then lunged, grabbing him by the throat. It happend so fast no one was prepared, the woman could in no way control the dog.

My DH grabbed the shepherd and threw him to the ground, but he still had our dog by the throat. DH put one knee on the shepherd's neck and his hand in his mouth to try and pry it open but until the dog started to black out from lack of air, he held tight to our dog. The woman is hysterical, pulling on the leach, DH is yelling at her to stop. Finally he was able to pry the shepherd loose and let our dog get away. Our dog has a ruff around his neck which largely saved him - he came out shaken but unhurt, DH had one bite.

My DH loves dogs but said if he'd had to, he would have killed that shepherd. The woman said he was a rescue and they'd only had him a few months. She had a 4 year old with her and she's pregnant. We haven't seen the dog since - I'm betting they no longer have it. But in her defense I have to say, it doesn't necessarily take a large dog like a shepherd to make a handler lose control. A smallish dog can pull you to your knees if you're not prepared.

You are so right about pet owners who don't get it.

We've had rottweilers, a German Shepherd and a lab over the past 30 plus years. The first thing we did when we bought our first dog was securely fence in the back yard. The dogs are never off leash when in the front yard. We even have an Invisible Fence around the perimeter of the property just in case one of our kids left the gate open when they were young.

Our dogs have been socialized, fully trained, they've never been aggressive, never bit anyone but we did all of that because they are large dogs and if by some bizarre event they were to bite someone they are large enough to cause serious damage. I just think it's the responsible thing to do because no one can guarantee that a dog will never bite.

We also fenced in our yard to keep other dogs out- we have several neighbors whose dogs "somehow got loose."

Now don't get me started on those owners who walk their dogs without cleaning up after them. I've been known to bag it myself and walk after them and hand it to them saying "Oh I'm sorry, you left this in my yard."

Now don't get me started on those owners who walk their dogs without cleaning up after them. I've been known to bag it myself and walk after them and hand it to them saying "Oh I'm sorry, you left this in my yard."

My ex did that once, only to have the dog owner turn on him and snarl every bit as viciously as a mad dog. She accused him of "embarrassing her" in front of her son by handing her a bag of poop.

I have no idea what is wrong with people, but there seem to be more than a few out there who JUST DON'T GET IT!

I love dogs and even have a large yard now to accomodate one, but it lacks a fence, and until we can afford to put one in, normal or invisible, we won't risk it.

But something else that really irritates me is a lot of dogs are aggressive because they haven't been properly handled, cared for and/or are mistreated. Years ago, we lived in an apartment and one month a LARGE family of immigrants; don't want to offend anyone so I won't say from where moved in next door. All counted, there were about 15 people living in this small 3 bedroom apartment, half of them kids. Stuck in their back yard all day, their favorite pass time was teasing our dog through the fence. She was a mix of several breeds, pretty docile but protective all the same. I repeatedly asked for them to stop, but they didn't speak english and persisted. After several weeks of this I could see a change in our dogs disposition, and knew she wasn't happy. Since I couldn't afford to move and I don't believe in restricting a dog to the indoors, I decided it would be in HER best interest to put her in a better environment. I ended up working with a local agency to help find her a new home that I was sure could & would offer her a better environment. It really made me sad and angry that we had to give up our dog because of these people, but it just wasn't fair to her.

My realtor must've thought we were nuts when we were looking for our 1st house. After looking at quite a few she finally summed it up to us: You're looking for a house that has window sills big enough for the cats to sleep in and doors that don't open directly to the outdoors so that cats and dogs can't escape as easily. We ended up w/ an old house w/ big windows and you have to pass through a mudroom, vestibule or side room door first to get to an outside door.

The property that we are moving to has an underground fence. For me I'd rather have a real fence and here's why:

While working at the SPCA more than 1 person said that while their dog never left the property, their dog also couldn't get away when another dog wandered in.

Yesterday we took the train into Manayunk and there was this sweet little old lady being drug/walking down one of the sidewalks by her lab. She had hold of the lead w/ both hands.

At one point I could've seen that being me when I'm old but after our last big dog passed away we swore off big heavy dogs. I couldn't physically keep carrying them upstairs to sleep w/ us at night once they could no longer manage stairs and DH just couldn't take the heartbreak of their shorter life spans.

I am a total you-know-what at the vet when it comes to owners letting their dogs "visit" all the other animals in the waiting room without asking. I do not allow that - I have no idea what there dog is there for (kennel cough, perhaps?) and whether or not the dog is friendly. I don't want my own dogs affected by some unexpected reaction - two strange dogs on leashes in a high-stress place like a vet office is simply setting them up for a problem.

At first, I tried to be nice by saying that my dog was ill and possibly contagious. But over the years, I've had to become much more blunt because people just don't listen! My 14-year-old arthritic dog doesn't want that rambunctious puppy crawling all over her, thank you very much. And I'm working with my rambunctious puppy to make her feel that vet visits are fun so I don't want that screwed up by someone allowing their aggressive dog to lunge at her!

I try to be polite, but asking someone to please keep their dog away using results in the "look" like I'm the most awful person in the world, or a remark of "Isn't your dog friendly?"

Sigh.

"Leashing dogs isn't enough...you MUST be physically able to handle them."

That's why we don't have a bigger dog, although DH and I both like large dogs. We got an unbelievable amount of pressure to adopt a greyhound (since we live near a dog track, the rescues are overflowing) and there were a couple of larger breeds that we would have loved to have, but I knew I could manage about 40lb tops so that was our cutoff point when looking for a dog breed. When I was in college I worked overnights in a boarding kennel out in the middle of nowhere, often by myself. One night a Great Dane bloated and I had to wrestle this half-limp, half-uncooperative dog that weighed a good bit more than I did into the rear hatch of a Chevy Chevette and drive him to the vet. He survived quite nicely, thank all gods, but that day I swore I'd never have a dog that I couldn't pick up and carry in an emergency. Goku's 35 lbs, a size where I can yank and drag (that sounds terrible, but you dog folks know what I mean) him in an emergency, and I could get him into the car myself even if he were either limp or fighting (although I'd pay something fierce later).

ttodd- You're right about the underground fence not keeping other dogs out but even the most obedient dog can be tempted to break through the Invisible Fence if they see something they just can't resist. Then after they have finished their little exploration they're not about to get shocked again when coming back to their yard. That's why we added a real fence.

And I agree completely with the "you must be physically able to handle them." Our current rottweiler is nearly 10 and when he leaves us he'll be the last of the large dogs. We both know that it will become more difficult to handle a 120 pound dog as we get older so we'll select a smaller breed.

"Isn't your dog friendly?"

You should just say "No, he isn't, and neither am I!" Who cares if some lulu at the vet's office thinks you are a sociopath? It's worth it for the peace and quiet.

I only have cats and bring them to a cat only vet - one of the reasons is so that they don't have to be terrorized in the waiting room by "friendly" dogs.

I have a rat terrier. He's never done anything to anyone and does seem to like being with other animals - even cats. Still we don't trust him. He's very protective of me and the kids and who knows how he perceives things from his little doggie world. A friendly pat on the back to one of the boys and the dog could freak out. He is always on leash. It's so funny because HE won't walk out the door without it - it's such a habit he waits for the leash. Maybe he feels naked without it! Course I think that's the cutest thing ever and he's the smartest dog ever. :)

About the underground fences:

When I worked at the SPCA forever and a year ago there was this one little white Eskimo Spitz that would end up at the shelter evrytime the electric would go out. Then one day after a brutal snowstorm he ended up at the shelter. When we called his owners back I said 'I didn't realize that the electric went out in your section of town.' They said that it didn't - there was a huge drift of snow that the dog walked up and over and out!

Re the invisible fences...They didn't work so hot in our last neighborhood. The golden, three doors down, would always stand the shock when he got too bored.

Then there was an ankle biter who would go after DH when we took our walks. He finally complained to its owner and she went ballistic on him, shouting that he must have been taunting her. Yep, that's what we do when we're on our nightly strolls. *sigh*

Lukkiirish,

Was the local agency just something that was in your area, or is it something that might have branches elsewhere? I have some friends who have a dog that they rescued from some bad owners. The dog is normally very sweet-tempered, but she's attacked one of the smaller dogs in their house more than once. My friends now have a newborn, and are concerned about what could happen once the baby is more mobile. Even so, they're very attached to the dog and are having a hard time with the idea of letting her go. They still think that they'll be able to find an ideal new owner on their own, which may be more difficult than they hope. They don't want to have to put her in a shelter because she needs a lot of exercise to be at her best, and they're concerned that she won't be adopted from a shelter.

I'd like to have some suggestions in my back pocket for them if their hopes don't work out in time.

Sovra - what breed of dog do your friends have, or is it a mixed breed?

Sovra, oh, that breaks my heart because it's not the dog or families fault. I feel so bad for everyone involved.

This was many moons ago, and in California, but the agency I used was the Animal Assistance League although now they may just deal with pure breds, it's been so long I don't really know. I also once had a keeshound, so cute, but I made the mistake of not knowing the breed before buying and they need yards and room to run. Our apartment was not an appropriate setting. The league found a home for this dog that had 5 acres and had always owned this breed so they knew what to expect.

More recently before leaving California, I was unexpectedly unemployed and had to leave a house I was living in. Since time was of the essence and of course I couldn't take my Goldie and Shepard with me, I sat at the local PetSmart and interviewed prospective owners. I don't remember what the name of that organization was, it could have even been the league.

They have chapters all over the country, but here is the link to the chapter I used. If they can't help you, maybe they can point you in the right direction, a local chapter or even an agency in the area that can help with the specific needs of this dog.

Good luck! I hope they're able to help you.

Here is a link that might be useful: Animal Assistance League of Orange County

Graywings-- it's a Dalmatian, and I think it's a purebreed.

Lukkiirish-- thanks for the name of the organization, and also the PetSmart idea. There are PetSmarts around here, so it may be another avenue for them to explore.

I really hope that they can find a new owner that they and the dog can be happy with. I keep wishing there was more I could do, but I can't have a dog in my complex and I don't know anyone personally who's looking for a dog.

Dalmatian? sovra are you in CA? There are multiple Dalmatian rescue organizations in CA and they'll certainly help foster or place your friend's dog. If I was in your area I'd help in a heartbeat - we had a Dalmatian and would get another without hesitation. They do require a certain kind of owner and an abused dog even more so. What a sad situation.

"I also once had a keeshound, so cute, but I made the mistake of not knowing the breed before buying and they need yards and room to run."

I don't know who told you that about Keeshonden but that's not particularly accurate as a definitive statement. I've been a Keesmom for 7+ years now and volunteered with Kees rescue for a time (left due to philosophical differences); it took us a year of research to choose a breed. (Mutts are fantastic dogs if you're more flexible than we are about size, temperament, and such, but we needed the relative predictability.) Like any dog, they do need exercise to stay healthy but ordinary walks can be plenty sufficient, which is one of the many reasons why we chose the breed. I taught him to go round on a lunge line like a horse for those days when I was too unwell and DH too busy to give him a proper walk, since he was never interested in things like chasing a ball or Frisbee. This is the first house we've had with a properly fenced yard as opposed to a trolley or a small fenced run primarily for toileting, and it's not even very large. Our handyman is Dutch (and he was very surprised to see a Keesie here!) and says they are as common "back home" as a Lab is here, even in dense urban areas. Of course, if you want to get into agility, flyball, or other doggy athletics, the average Kees is more than happy to oblige and bust his furry little behind to make his people proud of him.

Keesies are usually far more intellectually energetic than physically energetic; they are often too smart and creative for their own good, and if they get bored they can get extremely inventive looking for something to do, which many people interpret as the dog needing to be exhausted with a great deal of vigorous exercise instead of mentally stimulated. That goes double if they're lonely, with many Kees preferring the company of humans to that of other dogs - they CAN be very intellectually and emotionally demanding dogs.

sovra, your friends will be best off contacting a Dalmatian-specific rescue. They can start by Googling "dalmatian rescue" and working from there. A Dal with a history of aggression toward smaller animals (probably a high prey drive combined with lack of training/redirection) needs some serious rehab work with an experienced fosterer before s/he is ready for home placement.

Thanks for the info johnmari, actually, it was the Vet I was dating at the time who told me that when I complained to him that our dog was chewing HUGE holes in the carpet, every pair of shoes both my daughter and I owned, as well as the sliding closet door to get to them! (He was as you described, very intellectually energenic! LOL) Anyways, considering his profession, I had no reason to question his feedback. Personally, I don't believe his advise that the breed needed a yard and room to run is an unreasonable comment or concept. IMHO all dogs need that and being in an apartment just wasn't condusive.

Sovra, the Animal Assistance League is an excellent organization and is very dedicated to helping dogs that need to be adopted find a home that's a good fit for them, especially pure breds. If you do have a local chapter and contact them, please be sure to advise them about the dogs history. Like Johnmari says, he/she may need some training or rehab work before being placed. Good luck!