According to today's local paper, unemployment is over 11%. That is up from 4% late 2007.

I'm sorry for your DD. They were in horrible career positions given the housing crash. My SIL lost his high paying job. They lived off their savings for almost a year before he landed another, lower paying job. He is working his way up quickly but still making much less than he did before. He is just grateful to have any job.

Our business is down but we're staying afloat so far. Our shower has been put on hold upstairs because we want to hire it out and don't want to spend the money right now.

Yes, so many people are in the same boat. It's painful to watch. The foreclosures in the newspaper is scary. This is a smallish community and I hate to read names of people I know or know of who are losing their home.

My sister was lucky enough to be able to retire as the housing market crashed. She worked in an escrow office. Her DH worked in the housing development field. He retired too. They were just lucky.

It's pretty depressing, huh?

Now this is a very good and useful thread. Sorry to hear how tough your DD's situation is. It's pretty scarey.

I use hardly any lights and watch my electricity otherwise. The electric bill was only $75 and $85 the past couple of months! Most people run about $300 here, I think. Some of my family has a similar sized condo that runs about $450/mo for electric. I've even been putting plates and utensils in the frig after use, to reuse, instead putting them in the the d/w. Am hardly running the d/w at all now. I also stock up when something I regularly use is avail on a great sale. Try not to use the a/c unless it's terribly humid and my lungs are bothering me. I keep the house pretty warm. Same in Winter, therm down low. Batch drive. Am trying to eat what's already on hand in the cupboard -- amazing what one can find! -- instead of going out to get more stuff so I can eat what I want to at the time. Working to cut out the bad snack habit I've developed. Not indulging in gardening stuff as I usually do (though I do have a couple of gift certificates I could use). Cable tv is still on because I haven't been able to resolve the antenna thing, but it is going. Have an antenna that's supposed to work with the converter box I'm going to order with the $40 government coupon.

Gosh, I hope the animal shelters are able to survive. I always try to remember the local rescue. They do an awesome job.

Right now, this minute, we are getting by ok. Employed, making the mortgage, a little left over for the occasional dinner out or vacation.

A few years ago, though.......things were very different for us. We lived in a New Mexico city far from anything else, so whatever job you got there, was it. No real possibility for commuting for work. We had a mobile home and 3 kids. I bought our clothes at yard sales or Walmart. All furniture was used. TV was bought used. DH worked long hours and I did housecleaning part time so I could raise my own children with limited child care by others. Then, the place he worked closed it's doors. He did all kinds of things while looking for more work. Finally, got another job and went to work. Two years later, that plant cut everyone's hours to 30 hrs per week. He started sending out resumes to other places. Finally got some job interviews in Arizona, went and took a job. Put our mobile up for sale and sold it the first week. (No profit--just breaking even.) We packed a U-haul, my mom gave us a gift of $1500 to help us move, and DH came home to get us. That day, the day escrow was closing on the mobile, the couple buying it got (military) orders to a different state. We fell out of escrow. But we had already taken the job in AZ, 300 miles away and rented an apartment. So, we made the decision to just go and let my mom try to resell our place.
When we got to Az, I found a job, found a babysitter, and put my oldest in school. A few months later, our place in N.M. still hadn't sold. My mom had to help us pay the mortgage. DH's old job offered him his job back with guaranteed 40 hours. So, we packed up and moved back. Now we are way behind on money. We had sold our washer and dryer when we moved to Az, so I have to take clothes and kids to laundromat. We cannot afford a phone, and forget about cable. (The last 2 years have been the first time in 25 years that we have had anything but an antenna for t.v.) Then, with no new medical insurance yet, I get pregnant. One car. No phone. No washing machines. Behind on bills. Baby on the way. What did we do??? Well, like I said before, you just don't buy anything you don't go anywhere, and you work as much as you are able. I was limited on work but still made some money housecleaning. We got through it. And we've been through more of the same since then a couple of different times. When we lost the last work (company got bought out and layed off almost everyone) we sent resumes to California and moved here. That was in 1992, the year that Ca was having it's worst period of unemployment until right now. Old friends here told us it was a waste of time to look for work because there were "no jobs anywhere". My DH found addresses of businesses in the phone book and drove to each one applying for a job. In 3 days of intense searching, he had 3 offers. We took one of them, went back and loaded up another U-haul, and moved again.

There are no guarantees in this system of things. All over this world there are poor people, hungry people, people with terrible pain and disease. I know that more than half of the world's population would LOVE to have had my life. We have always had friends that love us to help where they could. Until there is a government that can bring true relief from the problems that plague mankind, there will be suffering. We have to just do our best with what we have. And we have to keep our faith in God's plan for humankind.

Red

Oh, parma-- that must be so hard for your DD, but at the same time, what a blessing that she got pregnant (not that it may have felt that way initially!!). Did she have her baby yet?

How we are getting through this . . .a lot of crossing our fingers. My DH's job has required more, more, more time and while it is tough on us all, we are just so happy that he HAS a job. We know that could change any day. We would lose the house FAST if he lost his job, and that's just the reality of it. But, I truly believe that even if we do, it would be terribly hard, but that as long as we were together and healthy, we would survive. I keep in mind the Buddhist thought that while there IS always pain in the world (the reality that we will get old, get sick, die) that there does not have to be suffering.

When we bought this house, we had 2 young children. Once they got to be school-aged, the plan was that I'd go back to work. With the housing market going crazy, we thought if we didn't buy then, we'd never afford a home (even with 2 incomes), so we'd ride out the time on one income.

Well, how things change. Then I wanted three children and DH agreed. . .and then my oldest was seriously unhappy at school, so we started homeschooling. Now I am expecting #4 (a surprise) and DD is thriving with homeschooling, so I can't imagine sending her back. With soon-to-be 3 non-school-age siblings (and the cost of daycare) it wouldn't make sense to put her back solely so I could go to work at this point anyway.

Several years ago my DH was out of work for several months. I started learning about voluntary simplicity-- at that point, it was not voluntary, but it really spoke to me. Eventually there was a point where we actually had enough money (for us; for some it still wouldn't be considered a lot) to not worry, though I did worry anyway. I still have a LONG way to go in terms of truly living simply. This whole thing about decorating is my #1 issue, in fact. While I do try to stay within our very, very limited budget for it, I don't see it as part of truly living simply . . .so it is a conflict.

I am done with this whole recession business. We lost a job. We found a job. I'm ready for what's next and focusing on what we do have and not wiggin'out about what we don't.

I don't want to live simply. Our goal is to just live responsibly, reasonably, comfortably within our means. Of course, I hyper-focus on the "comfortably" part. :~D

While I do acknowledge the pitfalls that conspicuous consumption has brought / can bring, I'm not sacrificing basic comforts and a luxury here and there just in case, just because something *might* happen.

Something DID happen to us and we survived it, lived thru it. Something might happen again. Who knows. If it does, I'll cross that bridge when we get there. In the mean time, we still have to live and enjoy living for corn's sake. I don't feel guilty about wanting anything. Never have, never will.

I don't understand the cache of over doing the doing without thing and how by some standards that kind of behavior translates into being responsible, and uber admirable, and the upright way to be. IMO, that extreme is just as dramatic and out of balance as conspicuous consumption. Doing without just in case may or may not be the right thing to do, who knows. What I do know for sure is that too much focus and energy spent on all the doing without business will bring opportunity after opportunity to indeed be without. It's one of those universe things.

funcolors, when you say you don't want to live simply, what do you mean? Simply does not = deprived. It DOES mean (in simple living circles), in part, exactly what you describe: living reasonably, responsibly, and comfortably within your means. I think the actual path varies greatly for each person because each person has his/her own definition of what is comfortable.

RE: Feeling guilty about not wanting . . .I think wanting is normal, and not something to feel guilty about-- I agree. However, endless wanting, IME, IS a curse. Many people consume (and I don't just mean with money), trying to fill some sort of void that will never be filled, and this is the source of frustration. It becomes a vicious circle for some, most obviously with shopping. They might say, "Oh, maybe if I buy this or do this activity, THEN I will be happy." While external things DO help with our satisfaction in life (to a degree; too much, has found to be just as harmful as too little), the internal peace cannot be bought. Doing without CAN, in some case, be freeing in many ways, much more freeing that having, depending on the person/situation. Not that it is all about things, but to me, less stuff = a cleaner home = more time to spend with people instead of caring for THINGS = more peace. Of course, this is an anti-American attitude!

I see it even with my children. For example, while I was taking them on an outing I'd planned for them, they started talking about OTHER places (not places I could easily take them) they wanted to go. It is natural for them to want, but if it gets in the way of enjoying what life is offering them at the moment, then no, then that is something that IME, should be reflected upon. Of course, as children, this is not something I expect now!

To me, living simply means I am not living complicatedly. It means I really try to focus on what is meaningful and important in life. EVERYONE in life, no matter how wealthy they are, is limited in resources, if not in money, then in time. If we live complicated lives, it is hard to decipher how to best use our valuable resources before they are gone.

While my reason for this post was to ask about specific periods of hard times and how you, or others you knew, made do, (because of Eileen's post) it has morphed into other areas, which is fine.

I have no qualms about trying to make my surroundings appealing to me and my family. A world devoid of beauty, would be a lifeless place to be. I can't imagine living without art, music or color, as these things can truly transorm a person. Anyone who has been moved to tears after hearing a symphony, visiting a magnificent cathedral, or seen a specific peice of art that has moved their soul, will understand what I mean.

Unlike the US, where fewer class hours means elimination of arts education, Europe still teaches this appreciation to their youth.

To me, home design/decorating carries this message to us on a daily basis. It sets the stage for how we feel, and as a result, who we are, on an artistic level. No one faults a beautiful garden but, somehow, we feel shame when making our homes as equally lovely.

I *do* know what anele means about endless wanting and filling voids with meaningless purchases, as I can be a purseaholic :), but in my eyes, our homes are a different story.

The world can be an ugly place but depriving it of all things beautiful is not the answer.

Personally, on a day-to-day basis, The Great Recession hasn't affected us that much. My husband & I have been retired for several years & have managed to live only on SS and some modest bank interest during those years. Being retired, there's nobody to furlough, lay off or fire us, and any job-hunting was long in the past. (And, frankly, I wouldn't want to be out there at this point.) Our "outside investments", as a whole, have taken a hit...though some have still done o.k.

Since we have always lived well below our means---both in our work & retirement years---our standard of living has not been affected, so no "coping" yet necessary.

My husband still downhill skis, we still not infrequntly go out to lunch or dinner at interesting ethnic restaurants, & we also go to the movie theater---particularly French, sub-titled films---quite a lot. we have little interest in travel, expensive or on the cheap, having done a fair amount of that earlier in life. We've owned, for 36 years, a somewhat charming old home (which I redecorate about every 20 years) in a somewhat charming neighborhood, within walking distance to about everything (library, supermarket, drugstore, hardware store, even dentist office) that we need.

We lead that simple, uncomplicated life---which means that the current economic situation hasn't made much of a dent...at least so far. I personally dont know the status of "other people" except what I read in the newspaper or on the web.. I'm sure there's a lot of "hurting" out there.

I think it is an interesting and timely topic-- but I am sorry that it has it so close to home, Parma. Truth is that many of us have been hit in some way or another-- lost job, lost home value, lost investment value, lost security. 8 months ago I accepted a position that was relatively secure (or so I thought). Now it is a very real possibility that I will be back looking for work again. At the very least, my work environment will change.

This isnt the first time I have weathered very tight financial times. When I was in grad school, I lived on an 8,000/yr stipend-- which I was not permitted to supplement with outside work. Granted, that was a long time ago and I was very young, but I lived a very full life on very little. I grew vegetables in the garden, I shopped the discount and day-old tables in the local grocery, I lived with roommates and I took advantage of the many free entertainment options in the college town where i lived (including window shopping and people watching). I didnt have cable -- or even a tv. I didnt use A/C or keep the house overly warm in the winter. I lived simply but my life was far from simple.

More recently, I twice took extended leaves from work. Once when I quit my job and took a much needed 6 month break before starting my own business-- and another time when I needed 3 months to tend to a dog who was recovering from surgery. Both times I cut wayyyyyyyy back on my expenses. I had saved money to cover the period and my only rules were that I couldnt cut insurance or stop paying utilities and that I couldnt dig into savings any deeper than I had set aside for the time off. I cut my second phone, paid very careful attention to the nonnecessary purchases and I cooked a lot of cost saving soups and stews for meals. Like Squirrel, I found that I had a large amount of food in cupboards and even came up with some brilliant new soup recipes.

This time around I have a lot more to cut-- I am about to cancel my netflix account, xm radio and backup ISP account as I don't use any of them with any regularity. I won't cut cable but I will likely cut back the service. If I am not using my phone for business, I can cut way back on the service. I will mow my own lawn and will make a point to walk more and consolidate errands. I have already stopped making big, frivolous or impulsive purchases for the home and for my wardrobe-- I have missed out on a few beautiful deals but I have a few extra thousand in my reserves.

Whether I lose my job or not, I think these were and will all be wise moves. I am a single woman with a single income and have no backups. I have no doubt that I will be able to find work but I can't be guaranteed to find a position at the same level for the same pay. Being proactive just makes sense... plus, it has forced me to open my eyes more to other options-- for entertainment, decorating and dining. It's good to mix it up once in awhile.

It is good to mix it up once in a while. Ya learn a lot about yourself, your family, life, the universe, stuff.

What I mean by I don't want to live simply is pretty much 'xactly how you restated it: living reasonably, responsibly, and comfortably within your means.

I'm not going to freeze in the winter or sweat thru my tank top in the summer just to save a couple bucks on utilities -- ya know, taking measures like that to save money. Comfortable comes at a price and I'm willing to pay it unless there's a good reason not to -- like we need every penny we can get/save to feed our kids. As long as that's not the case then I don't wanna live like it is.

I like to keep the attitude that we have plenty - today - in order to live comfortably and there's no reason to think that tomorrow and all of the next days won't be the same. I don't want to overreact to what has happened to us in the past and use those circumstances as justification to be in a constant mode of expecting the worst and what-if situations of lacking or needing to dramatically conserve. It's more fun to set my mind to expect abundance. It's that universe thing again. :)

As far as afflictions that induce over-spending, that's not really what I'm talking about. I know some people do have issues and they think retail therapy is an actual form of real therapy! lol! That's not what I mean at all.

Knowing the difference between what you really need and what you truly, truly just want is important. If you do know the difference, then you have the tools to make decisions when life changes happen and it becomes necessary to make those tough choices.

We had a rough few years, no doubt about it. We just kept reminding ourselves to deal with the now that we were in at that moment the best we could and that it wasn't going to last forever. That there was every reason to expect and believe in "this too shall pass" and our situation would keep getting better and better. And it did.

Parma, I'm so sorry to read about your DD's troubles. Sending my best wishes to her. I've pretty much had to pinch pennies forever, it seems, so I think I'm fairly I'm good at it. You just take a look at your expenses and figure out how to cut them down. There are lots of articles on the web about how to economize. Electricity and water are big ones to whittle down. Buy used whenever you can. Renting a room really helps if we can and I'm glad she can do that, although I imagine they don't get much sleep in the same room as a baby, bless them. A whole lot of people are having some very tough times right now.

Do either your daughter or her SO have any other talents they might market? Can they trash to treasure, for instance, and CL their offerings?

We tend to live very frugally in good times as well as bad so while things are economically bad, and personally I am highly effected by it, the changes in our lifestyle are marginal. Thankfully we have not been hit with medical traumas or major job layoffs and that does make a huge difference.
When the economy was booming though, we still went out to eat the same as we do now, rarely, and live about the same.

Parma, your daughter has certainly been facing some tough challenges lately, but she sounds like a daughter to be proud of! When you describe the sacrifices she's making I can hear how hard it is for you to see her doing that, but at the same time, I also hear a description of a responsible, gutsy, hard-working young woman, determined to do what it takes to make her life work, no matter what! She obviously is resourceful & has tenacity. Maybe her mom taught her something about those attributes?

I believe that this difficult phase will pass & she will acquire valuable lessons regarding money, priorities, life & herself. I don't mean to sound cliche or to minimize her struggles. I just have a tremendous amount of admiration for people who respond to crisis the way she has. In some of the most important ways she is a rich young woman indeed.