Oh, I forgot to say.... and for all this rinsing and having used LCB the first time, my husband's shirt still smells like him rather than having washed away the smell (not that his smell is bad mind you, but washing has removed it in the past when I also used FS).

Schutzhund

I have 4.00 LG 2496(2 years)and I wash king size comforter in without any problem.
I have water plus option and I use it on every load, same with extra rinse. Sometimes,if I use more detergent, I use one quick wash cycle without soap to rinse it better.I am rinsing freak. Improperly rinsed laundry leaves residue in the clothes and the washer.
I can't tell you if there is anything wrong w/ your machine but my washer barely has just small puddle of water on the bottom even w/ the water plus.It does have little more water in durring rinse cycle-at least it looks like it. I never measured the amount so I don't know.
I'd call customer service and ask or even before calling them, contact local appliance repair shop and bug them for some info. They might give you idea what is going on.
Personally, I would not add any water manually, I think it could confuse the machine, that's why yougot the error code. I would wash few loads, watch and see and decide.
I used ariel in europe long time ago and don't have experiene w/it here but maybe you need to use less now, much less. Is Ariel high sudsing when using in TL?
About vinegar.One cup?!?!? I use splash, anything more and I'll smell like a pickle!

Hi czechchick2,

I think they took the water plus option out of this model for whatever reason, as it is nowhere to be found. I, too, like you am a rinsing freak.

This is my first time using Ariel (never heard of it before this forum), so I cannot say how it is in a TL. Even with just 2 tbs I may be over dosing, as I finally tossed the whites into the dryer and am now running a "wash" of the next load without any soap whatsoever just to see the preexisting suds condition.

You would be surprised - one cup of vinegar really does not linger in the clothes - at least not in this machine. But it was a great laugh at your pickle comment!

Thanks for your input,
Schutzhund

Ariel is not suitable for an HE frontloader unless it's specifically labeled as HE low sudsing Ariel.

I'd love to know if there is any diference in between Ariel from UK and Ariel from Mexico. I used Focca and Roma in TL looong time ago but don't remember about the suds.
There is also professional Ariel laundry detergent in Europe but I have no info on it yet.
I use CS now and I like it but my BF think it irritates his skin. I tried to scale down but then the laundry isn't clean. I am back to Persil for wash and Use CS for prewash. I would love to know about the Ariel, seems like lot of people like it.I would try it too.

Hi Dadoes,

I'm confused... I thought I read here somewhere that the Ariel from Mexico that had the emzines (blue powder) was HE and that only 1 - 2 tbls was necessary. I also read that foreign soaps do not use the HE logo, as they are all HE. Mexico is still foreign to USA AFAIK, so my thinking was that that was why there was no HE logo.

And to add confusion to my newness, many of the recommended/referenced names do not actually have the HE logo on their packaging. The only package I have been able to find between 2 WalMarts and 4 grocery stores that actually had the logo was Costco's own Kirkland Free & Clear Ultra liquid (which I already had for my TL although it did not require it).

Thanks,
Schutzhund

Oh, and I also bought a box of FAB, but it, too, does not have the HE logo. Should I just return it unopened?

Thanks!

Seems like, after you read and read and read these forums, you decided to proactively apply the solutions that people have used to solve their problems -- trying to rinse out residues while watching the rinse water like a hawk; using Mexican detergent; adding water manually. IMO that's not the way to go, because you may not have those problems. Rather I think you should let the machine do its job, and see how you like the results.

Re the smell in your husband's shirt: First thing I'd suspect is wash temperature. (I'm assuming it didn't go through 3 sanitize cycles). What temperature setting did you use? One problem could be that "warm" or "hot" on this machine may be cooler than the same-named temperatures on your old washer. If that's so, there's no practical solution other than returning the machine. Another problem could be that it's taking too long for hot water to reach the machine. Since it uses so little water, the initial dose of cold water is a large proportion of the entire wash fill. The internal heater could solve that, but it (not ATC as you said) may not be programmed to work on all cycles. You can tell when the heater is on, by plugging the machine into a "Kill A Watt" meter (may be able to find it locally, or it's $23 from Amazon now). If the meter reads over 1000 watts, then you know the heater is on. The motor and pump and circuitry and lights use less than that.

Or maybe the detergent is the culprit.

FWIW here's my input.

I had considered the same machine you have because of the high CR rating and with the rear controls and top dispenser, it was much like my old Neptune I was used to.

Then I went shopping around and reading this forum and other reviews and decided against this model mainly because it did not have the water plus option and the heater only works for the sanitize cycle. I never had a sanitize cycle on my other machines and my clothes always got clean and I really didn't feel I needed that feature.

I bought LG model WM2016CW and have had it just over 2 months now and couldn't be happier. I use the water plus on just about every load and have found that the Perma Press cycle gives me and ideal amount of water for most loads and sometimes the water plus is not needed.

My machine has 5 wash cycle choices, Cotton/Towels, Normal, Perma Press, Delicates and Handwash. I have also found that the water level increases more for the Perma Press and lower cycles. When using the Cotton/Towels or Normal cycle, there is a very small pool of water in the bottom of the drum, but with the Perma Press and lower cycles the water is up to the bottom of the window. This is also true when using the Rinse & Spin feature.

I have been using Sears HE powder detergent and have recently discovered SUN w/color safe bleach powder detergent and though it is not labeled HE, it has instructions on the box for using in FL machines. I found it to be very, very low sudsing and rinses well. I use one level Tablespoon for most regular size loads and a bit less for smaller loads.

My suggestion is to try a bit less of your detergent and just let the machine do it's thing for a few loads. If you're still not happy, then it's time to see about an exchange. I agree, I wouldn't want a machine where I had to stand by and manually add water to it.

Let us know how things go.

Janet

Suburbanmd, I actually did run his shirt through 3 sanitize cycles, so maybe it is the soap. Strange thing, on the 10 year old now broken machine, I only used warm/cold setting & FS. Perhaps the FS was masking the smell. Also, we have a recirculating hot water pump that was running, so basically it has instant hot water. Plus, the utility room is the first stop in the hot water loop. I can also verify this, as I just could not resist the temptation to put my hand in the flow of the water to test its temp.

I have a load of linens to do tonight or tomorrow that I will do with the Kirkland HE liquid I have on hand and just let the machine do its thing as you say. The linens are not really that soiled, just one night stay by a guest, but still it will be interesting to see how it does and to check the soap level.

Janet, it is ironic you mention your model number, as when the delivery folks first delivered my machine and placed it, husband looked at it and said it was not the right one. Turns out it was the WM2016CW! What I do not understand is why of all the models they took the water plus feature out of my chosen model.

Do you find that the towels are actually in any water in the drum or have they absorbed it all? Mine has so very little you have to hunt for it and move them over just to find the frog puddle. Maybe this is quite normal for FL machines and being my first, I am used to the concept of water in a wash. I am still concerned about how it will do on the dog blankets and dog hair. How can it rinse the hair out when there is hardly any water? Only trial will tell.

Oh, and yesterday it started leaking slightly from the front left hand corner! I wiped up water several times including when I first got up, and no, the only high water time was when it did the error code while wildly filling. I have read that over sudsing can cause leaks, so maybe this high water level reached that point? Then again, it might be something else.

Do any of the FL machines actually spray the clothes to rinse them while they are spinning, much like the TL do? It seems like this would add a lot to rinsing the clothes.

Thanks,
Schutzhund

I'm very surprised that body odor on a shirt would survive one sanitary cycle, let alone three of them, no matter what detergent was used.

"What I do not understand is why of all the models they took the water plus feature out of my chosen model."

That would be a good question to ask LG...just to see what kind of answer they'd give.

schutzhund, I have started washing my towels in the Perma Press cycle. I can still choose a hot wash and there is more water in the tub with this setting. I've found that the Cotton/Towels cycle just uses too little water for my liking and I'd usually have to use another rinse.

Have you tried the Perms Press cycle on your machine yet?
I'm now using this cycle for most things I wash and I'm getting great results both in washing and rinsing.

Janet

Janet, that was a good suggestion. I called, and after 1 hour & 56 minutes, I finally got to talk with the one lone sole who was womaning the phone. She had no idea, just that she could confirm it did not have the water plus feature. She suggested a steam model that had that option and an MSRP of $1,999. When I was done picking myself up off the floor, I thanked her and hung up.

I have also tried the perma press and also the delicates cycle based upon what I had read here that sometimes those options yield more water. There was a bit more, but still questionable. When it came to anything that was absorbent such as towels or blankets, the comforter setting seemed to be more responsive.

Who would'a thunk buying a clothes washer could be such hard, complicated work with so many features and things to check out!

Schutzhund

This is my Calypso running some jeans with 3 oz. (six tablespoons) (measured with a 1 oz. drink-mix scoop) of Fab Spring Magic powder, juiced with 1 oz of STPP. The water is "soapy" but there're no visible suds.

Wow! Look at that beautiful water! That's probably more water in the tub than was in the tub in my LG for the entire cycle for anything so far (unless, of course, I manually added more ).

About your Calypso, is it constantly pouring the water over the clothes during the wash and rinse cycles at the same time it agitates? If you were to say how many inches deep the water is with the clothes, what would you guess it to be?

I bought a box of that FAB soap, but did not open it yet cause I thought it was not HE and that I should not use it. I guess I will open and try it out on the guest linens tomorrow.

I have read that you can buy the STPP on line or at local chemical stores. How do you find a chemical store?? Just the yellow pages for any chemical store or is there a chain store type of company?

Thanks for the picture!
Schutzhund

Schutzhund, what you see isn't what you think. :-)

The clothes are not submerged in water. If the machine is paused and the wet/dripping clothes moved aside, there is no water seen at all. The fill level is only enough saturate the clothes, fill the pump sump and the bottom of the outer tub by about 1" to 1.5" (UNDER the inner basket) to keep the pump primed for recirculation. (Frontloaders have a pump sump in bottom of the outer tub as well, so there's more water in them than just the little puddle you may see inside the basket.)

I assume you aren't familiar with the Calypso. They're no longer on the market, partly because people didn't understand how they worked, how to use them correctly. It's a wash-plate HE machine, the first one that was on the market wayyyy back in 2000 or 2001. (The original Maytag Neptune frontloader was marketed in 1997, I think.) The wash plate jiggles/rocks without rotating, sort of like a Mexican hat ride in an amusement park. The clothes bounce and roll over and move around in a counterclockwise direction under the water shower. There are five to seven rinses (some spin/sprays, some fill/shower) depending on the selected cycle. The final rinse fills a little more to dispense softener, but water still isn't seen other than the showering.

The point of the picture isn't necessarily to illustrate water usage (although that's part of the overall picture), but to show that Fab powder should work fairly well in HE machines. However, I'm on a private well, my water is about 11 grains hardness ... so people with softer water may see more sudsing with it.

The Chemistry Store

dadoes, can you still get stpp? Last time I checked I couldnt get it from the chemisty store anymore and dont know where to get it reasonable priced anymore. I really miss it mixed with Persil.

Well I just went to that link you provided and there it was... thanks!

Dadoes, thanks for the update info. In another thread I posted that I just purchased the Whirlpool 6400 and that it arrives on the 14th. This model is a 44% water saver unlike the LG 12.5 - 14 total gallons used, so I am hoping that it actually puts water in the tub to help remove those insoluble soils that would otherwise stick to the clothes.

You mention your water hardness. Mine is 20 gpg, which is considered extremely hard, with a pH of 7.6, slightly alkaline (just tested it with a pool kit). What I found interesting before they took the LG FL away today, was that with the amount of water that LG would use, there was little to no sudsing. When I added water manually, the more water, the more sudsing I would see. This happened in both the wash and the rinse cycles. I found this very strange, as I had thought that I was diluting the soap, and thereby diluting its ability to suds. Instead, the more water helped it to froth up.

Oh, the soap brand did not seem to matter. It did this with Ariel (2 tbls), FAB (3 tbls) and also Kirkland Free & Clear HE (1/2 of max line). I like the FAB the best so far, as even though it does suds a small amount, it seems to rinse out very nicely unlike the other soaps.

What else is strange is that the harder the water, the more detergent that has always been recommended, yet I am using the same or in the case of FAB, less than, others, who state having softer water, have posted.

What is your take on all this?

Thanks for the link on the STPP. I would like to also try to find it locally if I can.

Schutzhund