Nary on the hot on sanitary. 60 Normal, 40 Gentle/Handwash

Always do a wipedown of the gasket and leave the door ajar

Primarily Tide HE with Downer (liquid)

While posting this, I decided to take another go with my steam cleaner. No dice..this stuff is embedded in. Primarily in the front bottom where the water splases as it washer, around the water outlet/light that is on the upper region of the rubber gasket AS WELL, if you lift underside the gasket, it's somewhat black-moldish. Not pretty or healthy IMO.

I'm going to call Miele tomorrow and revisit my options..

Just for schitz and giggles, I am running a sanatize cycle with bleach in the water.

you can try whatever frontloader you want, even a Cartier golden one with diamonds on the gasket ;) ....

but, until you stick to cold and warm only and you stick to liquid detergents WITHOUT oxygen bleaches, you will have that mildew issue, no matter you leave the door open and wipe the gasket for half an hour.

Body oils require ***HOT*** water to dissolve, otherwise the stick on the outer tub and become food for mold.

Once you start to wash weekly your white towels on hot or sanitary the problem will disappear.
In europe we do this way and NO ONE wipes the gasket after using the washer ... and NO ONE has ever had mold problems

how much of those "Tide HE with Downer (liquid)" you use?

my W4840 is nice and good because I stay away with those American liquid detergents...

Zero issues with our for over two years now; door always left at a minimum of four inches open. Also, you might want to try this, by Miele:

{{gwi:2002440}}

One of the Miele techs who serviced our units, said to use it every 3 to 4 months. Unfortunately, if you go to Miele's own website, you will not find it there. (Go figure, but Miele's website seriously sucks.) Miele techs carry it on their service vans.

Curious why did you have yours serviced.

I've had mine just shy of 3 years.
I'm lite on the soap. generally 1/2 to 3/4 max on both the soap and similar on the softner.

Fahrenheit,
the descaler has nothing to do with mold.
One has to use the descaler in case of very hard water to clean the tub from mineral buildup (limescale)

hidoman,

Our Miele tech introduced me to the descaler as a means of degunking our W 4840's heating element. It did an excellent job of cleaning our drum too.

" I'm lite on the soap. generally 1/2 to 3/4 max on both the soap and similar on the softner. "

that's not exactly lite even for hard water!

I'm sorry to be such a wet blanket, but I consistently see the use of liquid detergents and cool and luke warm temperatures as the culprit of the plethora of mold issues in washers, not just front loaders. I have a 9 year old Frigidaire front loader which has at most seen a total of 6 months of liquid detergent use in its lifetime. Otherwise it's powdered HE detergent. AND I do at least one of not two 140 to 155 degree hot washes a month. I leave the door ajar and dispenser drawer adar inbetween wash sessions and that ccan be up to a week or 10 days. Not one hint of mold or foul odor. And I odn't use LCB either, oxygen bleach. I still dislike liquids, they are good for some laundry applications, but I personally believe powders are superior. And I can measure far more accurately than with liquids--too easy to under or over dose.

The issue deepens. After running the sanitize, I took out the flashlight and pulled the rubber gasket back where it meets the drum. I've got mildew/black mold inside around the entire plastic perimeter of the drum. U never really see it unless you look for it like I just did when you pull the gasket way back and shine a light on it.

Advice guys. I feel like I'm in Neptune mold/mildew all over again.

Pour about 1/2 cup of liquid chlorine bleach into the drum and run a Sanitary cycle. See if that helps. Then run the Sanitary cycle a second time with about 1/4-1/2 cup of sodium percarbonate (no liquid bleach). That should be enough to get rid of it.

Using hot temps at 140 degrees F or more on a regular basis are the key to avoiding mold/mildew/odor issues. Liquid detergents aren't as bad so long as you DO NOT OVERDOSE.

Otherwise, a once a month hot wash with liquid chlorine bleach should kill all the buggies responsible for these issues.

If the gasket is stained try an oxyclean paste OR a chlorine bleach solution. Will not remove the stain completely, but will lighten the stain.

Guys, OP says (s)he's washing at " 60 Normal, 40 Gentle/Handwash"

if these are °C (and I think they are) (s)he's washing in 104° to 140° F water.

I do agree, that Liquid Detergents and Liquid Downey are probably causing the problem.

I'd recommend using bleach occasionally, either liquid chlorine bleach (like Clorox) or oxygen bleach powder.

I'd recommend not using Downey as well.

60% Normal
40% Hand Wash

On the 40% when it's Hand Wash Cycle, I am generally using Woolite (1/4 cap from the *line*) and always cold water.

Re: the Chlorine Bleach Wash. Did that but my issue is that not only is there the mold/mildew on the gasket but when you peel the gasket back to reveal the outer drum housing...you can clearly see it there as well which is considerbly grosser than the isolated gasket.

Let me try to take some pics to illustrate what I'm seeing..

The percentage-use of your various cycles doesn't matter. The question was, what are the water TEMPERATURES you are using ... as in °F or °C.

Running the Normal cycle with perhaps "warm" water (100°F or 104°F) on 60% of your loads and Hand Wash at cold water on 40% of your loads does not involve water HOT enough to deal with a mold problem. Plus the liquid detergent and softener diet.

That is indeed my normal washing cycles. Maybe 1X a month, I will user Normal with Hot Water with Whites.

I don't really use bleach at all when cleaning nor do I do Sanitize every once in awhile..

One way or another, I will get this mold on both the gasket and drum dealt with.

ANOTHER thread on proper care and soap, etc to follow.
Thanks for all the suggestions guys.

The only only thing in my mix is Bio-Kleen Bac Out that I use to pretreat sleeves, collars, etc/

NEVER use the normal cycle. It does not use the onboard heater to heat the water. The only hot water will be what comes from your hot water heater. Remember all the water in the hot line will be room temp when the washer first opens the hot water valve. The hot water from your water heater will then cool on it's way to the washer or when it is sitting in the hot water pipes in between rinses.

A hot normal cycle will most likely never get above 110F. Use the Custom cycle in the future and always wash in warm, very warm or hot.

All whites get washed in Sanitary.

To rid the mold, run one Sanitary cycle with some LCB and no detergent. This will rid all mold that the LCB and hot water can reach. If you have mold growing where the water/bleach can not reach, then you will need to spray those areas will LCB or replace the parts.

Some washers in Europe now only have a cold water hookup. It is more energy efficient to heat the water where it is needed than to heat the water pipes, hot water tank, etc.

Heat=Sanitary
LCB=Sanitary
Normal Cycle=Cold Water=Unsanitary

>"Some washers in Europe now only have a cold water hookup. It is more energy efficient to heat the water where it is needed than to heat the water pipes, hot water tank, etc"

Moon, almost every frontloader in Europe has ever had cold fill only (except in UK till late 80s, where hot and cold fill were common). Actually the cold fill only IS NOT energy efficient, cause electricity is the least efficient mean to heat water. Commercial washers do have hot and cold fill for this reason (save energy = save money).

The funny fact is that, while you guess the cold-fill-only is more efficient, here manufacturers are pushing frontloaders with hot and cold fill hoses LIKE YOURS. This is the Zanussi-Electrolux one, REX Sunny, for those who have hot water heated with termal solar panels or a gas heater.

To have a clue of the savings you have with the american system with the hot fill too vs the cold fill only download this manual and compare page 57(cold fill only consumption data) with page 58 (consuption data when using 55°C/130°F water) . It is the manual of this machine

OT but curious

For those with a 4K series, mind pulling your gasket. Curious to see how sparkling white the outer drum of yours is...

As well, I usually pull out the soap dispenser bin to let air circulate. I actually every once in awhile use my steamer and clean it as well as do a vinegar wipedown on the inside of that area.

I'm curious how clean those units are on yours...

You have another thread on this topic. I'd take and wipe out the mold you can see and get at with bleach, let it sit a bit and run a cleaning cycle or two on the hottest setting you have. If memory serves, the 4840 only goes to about 160° or so but that'll be fine.

Although I have a toploader, I've used liquid detergent probably 75% of the life of the unit, on and off, and I don't have these issues that people claim exist with liquid. However I am careful to measure right, use hot (140° is my hottest) often and though I probably don't need to I always leave the top open just so I know when I have something in there or not. I haven't used fabric softener in over a decade. Occasionally vinegar if I feel it's necessary. I run an occasional bleach & dishwasher detergent cycle or possibly some borax if there's been something unusually smelly or if it doesn't smell too clean.

I think your major problem (besides too much cold water) is the mold is hidden on you. Wipe the inside of the gasket when you finish. That could help. Couldn't hurt.

Good luck.

Wiping the inside of the gasket would be a new regimen once I resolve what I have now. I will do the whole witches brew, santize cycle every 2-3 weeks, bleach cycle, etc.

I need to get my lenses and try to capture what I'm seeing. What I see is nothing mildew on the surface gasket COMPARED to what I am seeing on the outer plastic drum. Definitely not healthy...and the only reason I would have seen is, is by PULLING the entire rubber gasket back and shining a light.

off my soapbox

here you go, 2 years old W4840 gasket...

3 months on Tide he liquid, NO LCB, no Sanitary cycle...

{{gwi:2002441}}

I don't see anything wrong. I must be blind.

After seeing yours, it made me take pics....

Go figure, but the 1st pic was when led me to start pulling and looking in places I would normally not even look. It all went downhill from there. I was I could capture what I'm seeing in the outer drum basket

You have been warned

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It sounds to me like your problem is a lack of hot/sanitary washes and perhaps a high level of build-up inside the machine that is serving as a food source. I have the W4842 and it has a "clean machine" cycle that uses 160F heat and a full compartment of liquid chlorine bleach. Miele recommends running that cycle once a month.

I think you need to change your "workflow".

Eww!

Well, the suggestion à la "use the Sanitary cycle to clean the washer" are all good but there's one (potential) problem. The hot water will hardly ever reach the top of the outer drum and anything clinging to it up there won't be removed. Trust me, we have a European top loader at home and when you open the outer drum during the wash cycle, you'll never see water splashing upwards. See this video of mine: Our Top Loader Washing If you really want to clean out the entire thing, you'll either need to run a dedicated cleaning cycle that will spin the cleaning solution around (like this LG [fast-forward to 7:00]) or make your own cleaning cycle. BTW: the W4842 now comes with a Tub Clean cycle - maybe Miele can update your machine when (if) they replace the gasket.

I ran a home-made cleaning cycle on my grandma's Miele washer just recently - unfortunately, I lost all the video material I took (yes, I taped it ;-) )

Anyway, what I did was to select the hottest cycle possible. In your case, it would either be Extra White at Sanitize temp or the Sanitary cycle. I added citric acid to the main wash compartment. Miele's washing machine descaler is citric acid - but expensive. You might get it a lot cheaper from a super market or so. Citric acid is gentler than vinegar on the washer's parts. Once the initial eight load-sensing-minutes were over, I opened and closed the washer's door. With Miele, a small (or empty) load will give you a different tumble pattern than a full load. This holds true for the European models and I think also applies to the US machines. If you open the door after the washer finished sensing the load, it will think you added more clothes and automatically default to the SpinClean tumble pattern, which should help to scrub the drum clean.

Near the end of the main wash, once the heater finished heating the water, I switched the washer to Drain/Spin and let it drain the hot cleaning solution into a bucket. Next, I removed the drain hose from the standpipe and shoved it into the detergent dispenser's main wash chamber. I know it sounds strange but this allows you to recirculate the cleaning solution through all the inner workings: pipes, drums, even the filter in the bottom of the washer. I then restarted the Drain/Spin cycle and waited for the washer to continuously spin. Once continuous spinning started, I slowly added the solution to the drawer. Since your Miele is considerably larger than the one I used, you might have to add a gallon or so of additional hot water. The point it to get enough water in the machine so that it will slosh around and clean off any nasty stuff but not too much so that it won't cause the machine to throw an error code at you. However, I have to say that the Miele I use is really powerful: even tough there is some water gushing down the glass door during the 1400 rpm spin it just keeps on spinning like "Yeah, whatever!". So don't be too shy about adding some extra water to the spin.

Once the PowerWashSpin cycle is over, reinsert the drain hose into the standpipe (or laundry tub or whatever you have) and start another Drain/Spin cycle to rinse the machine. This time, again, wait for the washer to continuously spin and pour two or three gallons of fresh, hot water down the drawer. The water hitting the spinning drum will rinse out any muck and cleaning solution remaining. Oh, important: you must not use foaming laundry detergent during this deep-cleaning routine! Only citric adic or something like dishwasher detergent. Or maybe Washer Magic etc. - if these cleaning products do not suds.

Once the second Spin cycle completed your washer is ready to go. :)

Unfortunately, this will not remove the muck from your rubber gasket, sorry. You will have to tackle these stains with bleach - or have Miele remove the gasket altogether. And in the future, you might want to try the Extra White cycle with hot water on your whites. After all, you spent a lot of cash on this washer. Wouldn't it be a shame only to use two of its many available cycles? ;)

As far as softener goes: I know, some people avoid it but I love it and always fill the dispenser completely full. But I also run my towels etc. through a 140°F wash once a week with powdered detergent that contains oxy bleach. That seems to clean the inside of our washer just fine -> I never ever needed to wipe down our rubber gasket.

Finally, here's another video of mine to illustrate the effectiveness of my home-made cleaning cycle. I blocked the drain hose on our TL so that there would be a low level of water in the tub during the 1000 rpm spin. See how hardly any water is splashed up onto the cling film covering the opening. Even though the drum turns at distribution speed it's nothing but a few drops here and there. But wait 'till the actual spin kicks in at 1:40! :) Link to video

Alex

" I don't see anything wrong. I must be blind. "

Exactly!

No MILDEW!

very clean gasket and yet no LCB ever use!

correct dose (in your case less than 22ml/load) of German powders / liquid detergents is what you need....

of cause you should get those existing mildew clean first! ;)

I have never had a mold problem but know several people who have. Its not good because the mold gets into your towels (which smell fine when washed but stink as soon as they get wet) and anything else you wash.

I do use small amounts of fabric softener but I use one made with soy and not animal fat (tallow) which may be better? I always leave my door open.

When a friend was going through the "why do my towels stink??" episode, I discovered this product Smelly Washer. Even though I did not have a problem I purchased some and clean my washer with it monthly. It makes the thing sparkle.

My neighbour (who has a TL) also had smelly towels. I knew right away what was causing it and she bought some and her towels no longer smell.

There is some good information on the site re: maintaining a clean machine (most people dont realize that they need to be cleaned). Body oils as well as fabric softener can cause a "bio film" to build up in the machine. Mold feeds on that bio film. It is NOT enough to use bleach that will kill the mold but will not remove the bio film. You need to remove the bio film to clear it up and then keep it clean.

The site provided this info re: the gasket:
Will Smelly Washer Cleaner remove mold from the door gasket? To remove mold from the door gasket you can mix a teaspoon of cleaner in a spray bottle with hot water and spray the affected areas liberally. Allow it to soak for a long period (even overnight) and the mold should easily be cleaned. Mold stains impregnated into the rubber may take repeated applications and/or vigorous scrubbing.

Good luck!

The fact that Smelly Washer doesn't disclose its ingredients or make available a MDS sheet, and says its ingredients are "natural" tells me that they are using very common ingredients. Perhaps citric acid or sodium percarbonate?

Could be. It is a white crystal like substance. It does make my washer clean. It has no smell I can detect.

sshrivastava, I just realized that the Smelly Washer does not look like the sodium percarbonate I have. It is def more of a crystal like substance. I have not seen citric acid up close so not sure if it might be that.

FYi Here's a news clip of Smelly Washer vs Affresh.

STOOPID Question but where do I buy

sodium percarbonate
LCB
Citric Acid

Are these OTC stuff found easily or a mailorder specialty

LCB is plain old liquid Clorox bleach.

Sodium percarbonate can be purchased in its pure form under the Ecover brand name or in bulk online from The Chemistry Store. OxyClean's active ingredient is sodium percarbonate, but it contains only about 50% active ingredient.

Citric acid can also be purchased at the grocery store under the Lemi Shine name which you can find in the dishwasher detergent section, in bulk from The Chemistry Store, and it may also be available in larger quantities at middle eastern food stores under the name "lemon salt". Citric acid has the same consistency as salt, and is a crystalline substance.

ChefWong,

Simply purchase some of this at a big box store and try it out: Lemi Shine Machine Clean 3. It's made from real fruit acids, natural citrus oils, fragrance and sodium bicarbonate.

http://www.allbrandservicenaperville.com/products-washer.html

Scroll down to see the ratings - i'm glad i found this before buying a F/L - i ended up with a Speed Queen top loader and couldn't be happier!

chefmom,

There are reports here, with photographs, of the same thing happening to a top loader. The issue is a combination of the wrong detergent (liquid vs. powder) with the wrong wash temperatures: primarily too many cold washes.

After owning a front loader I'd never go back. The benefits of better fabric care outweigh a top loader. I will consider a Speed Queen front loader when we go to purchase again.

Chefmom_2010, you based your purchase decision on the ratings of one single repair web site from Illinois?

There are no mold or mildew issues with front loaders as long as you don't overuse the fabric softener and do regular HOT washes (which everyone should do anyway).

Well, I see a machine that looks pretty gross to me! I wouldn't like it one bit either.

Hope you can get the problem fixed. I think I'd want new rubber parts. The rest can be cleaned up with bleach, but may remain stained.

After extensive research my decision was based on many personal reviews, service issues and contacting many appliance repair companies related to F/L washers. I also wanted a washer made in the USA and Speed Queen has the best warranty out there. I didn't want the electronic control panels which usually break within the first year or two.
http://www.stillmadeinusa.com/appliances.html

A couple of sanitary cycles with LCB did the trick on the gaskets. Only thing I had to so was on 1 cycle, I took a cloth to wipe the upper part of the gasket, threw some old towels in (to make a higher water load) and the gaskets are perfect. Inner, Outer, Backside of inner, etc. I must have done 6-10 loads of Sanitize, with 2 of them using dishwater powder and the rest LCB.

Next is the outer drum. LCB did break up the top layer of whatever was on it. Assuming it's BioFilm, etc, any other suggestions on what will cut it without any mechanical agitation....Just short of me opening up the beast.

I did not have citric acid on hand, so I used up 5 packets of descaling powder I use on my coffee machines. In removed very little bit of the biofilm when using this.. I need something that will do it ~ALOT MORE~ . Trying to see if I can get this clean chemically before I attempt to open the panels up..to get access

It occurs to me that a de-greaser may actually do the trick. Isn't that build-up mostly petroleum-based goo from fabric softener, detergent, and soil? I would try a concentrated de-greasing product that you could dissolve in water. I have no idea where to get such a thing, or if it even exists.

I found some here

has anyone used Simple Green? would it work?

https://www.simplegreen.com/en-us/household/products/all-purpose-cleaner--12#detail-panel

here's the data sheet, which show levels of Sodium Citrate < 5%; Sodium Carbonate < 1%; Tetrasodium Glutamate Diacetate < 1%; Citric Acid < 1% … would that be too low to be effective?

https://cdn.simplegreen.com/downloads/SDS_EN-US_SimpleGreenAllPurposeCleaner.pdf

What are you wanting to clean with Simple Green?

I have Simple Green a couple of times. Was not impressed with it. Smells OK but doesn't clean much worth a hoot.

When I had small babies, I decided to use it to clean the carpets. Bad idea. Simple Green turned my carpets green.

Luckily mostly rinsed out with a LOT of rinsing.

@ci_lantro, I was inquiring about the effectiveness of Simple Green on maintaining a clean machine …

does it clean body oils/bio film build up in the machine?

kill/remove the mold from the door gasket?