Dispensing softener has nothing to do with the machine's pump, sump, and water recirculation.

When the default shower rinse is used, there is no agitated deep rinse to properly mix and distribute softener into the clothes. Spin initially goes up to 300 RPM and 670 RPM to extract soapy water from the clothes. The basket then slows to rotation at only 25 RPM while fresh water showers over the clothes to thoroughly saturate them. The pump may also run in drain mode during the showering to continually flush the water away. Spin revs up again to 670 RPM to extract the soapy water. The sequence repeats again. There may be some sprays at 300 RPM. Sure, you can put softener in the dispenser. It'll get thrown from the inner cup to the outer section of the dispenser when spin gets up to 300 RPM and 670 RPM ... but soon as the basket speed slows to 25 RPM for the saturation spray, it'll dribble out and be flushed away down the drain -- to no effect on the clothes. There's no way (barring a more complex mechanical system) to mix the softener with the incoming fresh water shower.

The Softener Rinse option eliminates the 25 RPM saturation sprays, so the softener does not dribble out prematurely. Spin varies between 300 RPM for spray rinses and 670 RPM for extraction. 300 RPM is fast enough to prevent the softener from dribbling out. When spin stops for the deep rinse fill, the softener dribbles out of the opening in bottom of the dispenser and down the agitator barrel where it mixes with the water as the machine fills, then the agitated deep rinse further mixes the softener and distributes it into the clothes. The momentary operation of the pump in recirculation mode during rinse fill has nothing to do with dispensing or distributing the softener. It's simply to clear the recirculation hose that runs from the sump up the side of the tub of any residual soapy water.

You say that on Softener Rinse, your machine spins for about half a minute, then stops and does some sprays, then spins-up again. Are you sure about that? Unless F&P has radically changed the programming, it shouldn't get below 300 RPM at any time once the post-wash spin gets going when Softener Rinse is selected. You can't see inside unless you bypass the lid-lock, but you should be able to tell the difference by how it sounds in Softener Rinse compared to default shower rinse.

The only things that could prevent softener from dispensing properly when the Softener Rinse option is used is if someone stops/pauses the machine during the first spin which would cause the softener to dribble out prematurely, or if for some reason the machine is dropping slower than 300 RPM during the spin period. Or something is physically wrong with the dispenser, which is unlikely being it's a rather much simple, non-mechanical device.

I'm doing a load with the cover off as I am writing this. I'll let you know what I observe. I have the washer on normal, cold wash, auto water level setting, and the softener deep rinse on.

AJW

BTW, thanks for the quick replies. I'd like to get this sorted out one way or another, if possible.

I can see how the elimination of the 25 RPM sprays would prevent the softener from dribbling out prematurely. However, my unit still does the 25 RPM sprays, even when the softener option is selected. My load just finished. This is what happened:

1) Wash water has finished being pumped out (after main agitation),
2) Tub slowly spun up to 300 RPM and remained at speed for approx. 30 seconds,
3) Tub COMPLETELY stopped, the saturation spray started, immediately after which the tub started spinning at 25 RPM (while the saturation spray continues).
4) Saturation spray stopped after about 15 seconds.
5) Repeated 2, 3, and 4 about 6 times (didn't bother counting),
6) Machine completely stopped and stays stationary while the tub was being filled.
7) Part way while the machine was refilling during the deep rinse, the diverter valve clicked and the sump sent out a 5 second stream of fluid (rinsewater?) through the recirculation outlet,
8) Machine finished filling and agitation begun.
9) After a couple of minutes or so of agitation, the tub emptied out and the unit proceeded with the final 1000 RPM spin.

I don't know what else I can add! :o)

I did not pause the machine at anytime during the entire cycle.

When the tub stopped in step 3, I heard a fluid dribble out into the center of the agitator. I presume that this fluid is the softener.

Any insight? Is my machine screwed?

Thanks kindly,
AJW

3) Tub COMPLETELY stopped, the saturation spray started, immediately after which the tub started spinning at 25 RPM (while the saturation spray continues).
4) Saturation spray stopped after about 15 seconds.
5) Repeated 2, 3, and 4 about 6 times (didn't bother counting),Hmmmmm. Yes, the dribble sound would be the softener dispensing. This seems wrong ... unless as I stated previously F&P has purposely changed the cycle sequence. I have a previous-generation IWL12 and it does NOT do the 25 RPM saturation sprays when a deep rinse is selected. It spins up to 300 RPM, does one or two brief sprays, revs to 670 for 30 seconds or so, drops back to 300 RPM, does 4 to 5 more sprays, 670 again, then stops for the deep rinse.

I checked the GWL15 manual linked to WA37T26G at F&P's web site. There is no specific outline of the rinse sequences ... only that Softener Rinse adds a deep agitated rinse. There is an option on the secondary programming menu to select the non-Eco rinse (which is the Softener Rinse on Regular or Heavy, and the standard rinse on the other cycles) as either spin-spray + one deep rinse, or two deep rinses. You might try setting it for two deep rinses to see what happens, in which case (I think) there shouldn't be a spin before the first deep rinse and the softener would be dispensed into the second deep rinse. You may not want two deep rinses just to get proper dispensing of softener, but it may be the only choice.

I'd say it's unlikely there's anything actually wrong with the machine to account for this. The controller board is doing what it's programmed to do. You may consider calling or e-mailing F&P, describe what you've observed, find out what they say in response on whether they've purposely changed the rinse sequence, and if so, if they acknowledge that it does not provide for proper handling of softener. Maybe there really is a glitch in the programming. If they *have* purposely changed the rinse sequence, perhaps to ward-off build-up of softener residue/scrud, and not expecting anybody to notice what with the locking lid during spin ... I have to say that's just wrong!

Also try the Perm Press and Delicate cycles, have a look what is the rinsing sequence both with and without Softener Rinse selected.

Thanks Dadoes. I'll try out your suggestions and I'll send F&P an email.

Regards,
AJW

BTW Dadoes,

Just wondering, what makes you so sure that the momentary operation of the pump in recirculation mode during rinse fill has nothing to do with dispensing or distributing the softener? It makes sense to me that is does since you are supposed to put your detergent in the centre of the agitator, and since the detergent mixes with the water in the tub and the initial pulse of detergent comes from out of the recirculation outlet.

F&P don't seem to be answering their emails. I've emailed them twice without a response. Have you had any luck with them in the past?

Thanks again!
AJW

But, you said yourself that the momentary recirculation during rinse fill does not have any scent or evidence of softener. :-)

Being that I've not yet met a WA37T26G, I can't say with 100% confidence ... but based on my use of a GWL08 since 1999 and an IWL12 since 2004, and examinations of both machines and service manuals thereof, I'm reasonably sure.

Recirculation simply picks up whatever water/fluids are in the outer tub and showers it into the inner basket, where it flows back to the outer tub to be picked up again for more recirculation.

Unless F&P has radically changed the mechanical design of the tub and sump (which is possible, but I doubt so), there's no way to retain the softener in the outer tub (sump) after it releases when spin stops for the saturation spray that you described. It'll be pumped down the drain with the spray rinses and water extracted from the clothes, long before the rinse fill and momentary recirculation occurs.

There's free-flow of water between the inner basket and outer tub, so anything in either one will mix through to the other via agitation currents as well as recirculation via the pump. My older GWL08 does not have the divertor valve and recirculation / EcoActive wash system. It does only a traditional deep-fill agitated wash ... and the instruction manual still advises to add detergent into the agitator. Softener dribbles down the agitator when it dispenses (same as your machine) and mixes though the clothes via agitation, no recirculation occurs or is required. GWL08 does an agitated deep rinse by default, with a Water Saver option button for shower rinsing .. and warns not to use softener with Water Saver .. same as your machine warns not to use it without the Softener Rinse option.

As for adding detergent into the agitator, that's not *required*, it's simply F&P's quirky/preferred suggestion. The theory is that it'll dissolve/mix with water beneath the agitator and in the outer tub, minimizing exposing the clothes to undissolved detergent granules. The machine will work perfectly fine with detergent added directly to the tub, sprinkled atop the clothes. My IWL12 has the EcoActive system, but does not use it for the Handwash, Shoes, and Comforter cycles, and perhaps a couple others. All EcoSmart models from GWL10 (or 09) through GWL15 (and presumably your WA37T26G) have skipped EcoActive on the Perm Press cycle, going directly to a deep-fill agitated wash. If recirculation was crucial to dispensing of detergent, surely it'd be done for at least a couple mins on all cycles.

Try this: Run a load with Softener Rinse, and instead of using the dispenser, add softener down the agitator during rinse fill, AFTER the momentary recirculation is finished. Then notice if there's evidence of softener and scent on the clothes.

F&P tends to be slow responding to e-mail, particularly if the question needs to passed along to other personnel.

I had suggested previously to try setting the machine for a double deep rinse, which may be the only way to get softener dispensed properly. That's not quite correct ... you can of course add softener manually to the deep rinse.

Got a response from FP. You are right. According to the FP representative, the GWL15/WA37T26G technical manual states the following:

"1. The basket spins to a very slow 90 rpm where it checks to see whether the basket is correctly balanced. If it detects an unbalanced load, it will abort the spin and sound a user warning.

2. If the load is balanced it will proceed to the next level around 300 rpm. At this speed a large mass of water is extracted from the load. It is like the first strong wring. After the bulk of the water has been removed from the clothes a small amount of water is sprayed (about 1/3 of a gallon) onto the clothes to cool them down before they are subject to a high spin speed. This cooling reduces the likelihood of creasing.

3. The machine then spins the load up to around 600 rpm. At this speed the clothes are flattened against the basket and the soapy water is centrifuged out of them. (This is also the speed at which the fabric softener is centrifuged out of the cup into the inside of the dispense).

4. The machine then slowly decelerates to around 350 rpm where the spraying really occurs. Water is sprayed onto the clothes, then centrifuged through them taking the detergent with it. The number of sprays the machine performs at this point is water level dependent. At a high water level the machine will perform four sprays, at a medium water level three spins will be performed and at low two sprays will be activated.

5. The load is then spun up to around 600 rpm. At this speed the clothes are flattened against the basket and the soapy water is centrifuged out of them.

6. The machine will then coast down to zero and begin to fill for the deep rinse. This is cold for all cycles except the Wool cycle where which removes the last of the detergent and gets rid of any extraneous matter (sand, grass, lint etc) left in the creases of the clothes.

The water in the spray rinse is always cold, as this is the best temperature for rinsing. The spray deep rinse combo is the rinse for those who want to use liquid fabric softener."

He was also kind enough to include a graphical representation of the spin speed vs. time. And yes, the unit is not supposed to spin below 300 RPM at any time during the spray rinse after the initial spin-up and balance check.

Will continue to post updates.

Regards,
AJW

Good news, F&P sent over a controller board to a local serviceman, who replaced the board in my unit. Happy and pleased to report that the softener dispenser problem has been fixed with the board replacement. So it was apparent that the problems I experienced was a result of a flawed control board.

Kudos to F&P for their excellent customer service!

Regards,
AJW

Thanks for the follow-up. I was wondering how this situation would play-out.