Hmm. A large sink is important for washing larger pans and dishes, although people have made do for centuries. But a large sink accumulates more dirty dishes. With a smaller sink, it's more likely that the dishes would get into the DW instead of lingering, which is a good thing.

I would rather have a full size fridge in the room, and a smaller sink. Question - is there a laundry sink or utility tub elsewhere?

Thanks, lyvia; there's not a close sink elsewhere, other than the powder room. The laundry room is in the basement, sadly.

One of the reasons I wanted a larger deep sink was to stow things in there during meals, especially as our dining room is part of the same room. You see my dilemma.

I prefer the large single bowl ss sink (Franke) because I can soak large roasters, soak big stock pot and clean the cookie sheets, etc. Dirty dishes only accumulate if you let them. I don't have a laundry sink, so this makes life easier for me.
I feed four adults with from one counterdepth fridge. I do use vegies and fruit from my garden year-round which reduces some cooling needs.

dretutz, I'm not sure what you're recommending. Maybe I'm slow. Yes, I'd like a large single bowl sink, and I currently have a 36" counter depth fridge. Are you saying that you think a smaller fridge is less important for you because you have a garden? For me, it's the width of the counter depth fridge that's the problem, not the depth.

What size is your sink and how wide is your counter depth fridge?

I think your friend is a little goofy because fridge and freezer drawers are a common supplement in high end kitchens. I'm going with an all fridge in my kitchen and a couple of freezer drawers. It works quite well to do so.

But that said I wouldn't get a 24" fridge. It will be a frustrating change (just too small) and it could be a resale issue for your kitchen. Instead I'd get an 18" dishwasher (Bosch has a great one...integra I think?). That gives you another six inches for a large sink and normal size fridge (which would be either 33 or 36). People will be fine as long as there is a dishwasher in a kitchen when it comes to purchasing, but I'd not compromise on the fridge, nor the function of the big sink.

By the way...a prep sink in no way makes up for a small sink. You can't do there what you can't do in your main sink...ie soak a large pan so that thought is sort if...well again I'm not sure I agree with your friend much.

How about a 33" refrigerator and a 31" sink base? There are certainly choices in 33" refrigerators for now. Maybe others here or in the appliance forum have an idea of whether they're being phased out and how quickly, and whether replacements withing the lifetime of the cabinetry will be possible.

Here is a link that might be useful: 33-ish inch refrigerators

check out Liebherr frig-it's a vertical application in a narrow width-wonderful appliance-will ddefinitely add resale value.25 in width sink seems fine-go deeper if you think it's not big enough.

are you planning a double sink? a single sink that is 25 inches IS large. especially in a small kitchen.

I had a a single D sink in my old kitchen - it was deep.. I think it fit in a 24 in cab (so 21 inch sink)... it was definitely adequate for all my cookie sheets etc.. it could have been bigger, but it certainly was big enough.

in a small kitchen, I think a single sink that was 30 would be way out of scale.

(I am currently considering the blanco D silgranite sink that fits in a 27 cab... it is I think 24 inches.) My kitchen is probably a medium size. I may consider a prep sink - but that is based more on where everything ends up in the layout, not on the "I need another sink" mentality.

Igloo, we already have a Bosch 24" dw which we're hoping not to replace as it's less than 2 years old. Love it!! Also, if we keep the full dw (which we NEED!), then a 33" fridge won't be narrow enough. You think a 24" all-fridge will be too small? I heard they're huge. Maybe a 27" or 39" all-fridge then...
Especially, thanks for the advice that a prep sink won't make up for a too small main sink! You think 25"" is way too small??

Mnerg, good idea. If I go smaller in a fridge/freezer, then I would need supplemental fridge drawers, which IS an option. Do people consider 33" fridges a standard or normal size? However, I don't want to get one and then not be able to replace down the road. Thanks for the suggestion!

Herbflavor, I know; I LOVE Liebherr fridges! They're at the TOP of my list! Thanks for the suggestion!

Go and measure your stuff. My longest cookie sheet is 16". cooling rack, 18", roasting pan 20". Do a deeper single 25" sink but don't skimp on the fridge. Now this opinion is based on my own work habits and family of four.
I clean-up as I go whether I'm cooking or baking and that comes from years of working in a very small kitchen. I still do it so that when we sit down for dinner there are very few dirty dishes.

Lawjedi: yes, it will be a single bowl. Especially after being a regular on this forum: lol!
I think maybe I'd become stuck on the idea of a larger sink ( 30-ish) especially after I was talked out of a prep sink here on GW. And I wanted all my pots and pans to fit into my one sink. However, MOST will fit into a 25" sink, and that might be okay.

I'm not sure that a 30 inch sink would have been too much, though.

I think I'll go check some 25 inchers out in person today.

I would not sacrifice sink size for fridge size no matter what anyone says. There are ways to work it out.

We have a 36" bottom mount Viking fridge in our house and a 30" Liebherr in the apartment. I use both and don't see a huge difference in what they hold.

However, for me, any sink under 30" isn't really workable. (You could squeeze me down to 28" w inside but not one inch smaller).

In our apartment I have a 7-foot x 10 foot L. Not much space there. Had a 2-bowl 33" and went to a single 30" undermount and it feels like twice the space. I also went 10" deep and that's a big help, too since there's basically just 24" of counter over the dw.

Sub Zero makes a range of fridge sizes with and without freezers if you can swing that cost -- more options -- but very happy with Liebherr.

Your friend means well but given the size of your kitchen even in a family neighborhood I'd want a good balance.

When you go to the showroom take your biggest tray, roasting pan and pot. Try them out. It's really all about balance, our own personal kitchen habits and sometimes sacrifice , as we all discover through this kitchen planning process.

blfenton, oh, I wish I had your habits! I try to clean up as I go, but it rarely works out (despite MY years of working in a small kitchen!) lol! Thanks for your advice. I don't want to skimp on either!

Rococogurl, ah! I know your great kitchens from your fabulous blog! In fact, your city kitchen is in my inspiration folder!

Truthfully, I really don't want to go down below a 30" sink, but do not want to be impractical, and regret it later. I'd love to get a Liebherr fridge (and it's been at the top of my list for ages!) as it seems like amazing quality and design. I potentially could buy a Sub-zero, but would rather spend the money elsewhere: like on fab marble or madre perola quartzite!

We've been struggling with just this issue, but we actually have just under ten feet to work with. We went for a 30" bottom mount GE fridge - 13" drawer - 30" farmhouse sink - 14" drawer - dishwasher on our wall. We decided we'll use an extra fridge elsewhere. When we went to order, we found a Blomberg 27" fridge under $2000. But it was too late, the windows, plumbing and framing were already in. The fridge is full depth since it's against a wall, and we just didn't want to give up any counter space to a bigger fridge.

In my kitchen (which is desperately in need of a re-do) I have a drop in sink that can also be undermounted. It is 27" wide, and the bowl itself is 21" x 16" and 7" or 8" deep. Its really the only thing I like in my current kitchen. I find it plenty big, and often have a full sink of dirties while the dishwasher is running or waiting to get unloaded.
I can fit my roaster pan in, and my large glass/pyrex dish. My BIG cookie sheet gets washed on an angle, but thats the only one that doesn't lay flat.

I suggest checking out some sinks w/ the 25" measurement... you may find that although its smaller, its still spacious enough for what you need. A prep sink would likely be smaller than your main sink, so it may not be much help in that regard, but if you think your 25" sink is often going to be crowded full of dishes, a prep sink might be nice so you can wash your hands and prep in an empty sink, instead of on top of dirty dishes.

Just a thought, but for me, my 36" fridge is often stacked and packed full.... I don't know if an all-fridge would have more actual space-- it might!, but if it were ME I'd keep the 36" fridge.
But it really depends on how you eat/store food/clean up. YOU may know the answer to this question, even if you don't realize it yet!!

My last suggestion is to take your current layout drawings and figure out what items are going in each drawer/cabinet. I do this with each layout I come up with... for example I write: A. Plates, B. coffee mugs, C. spices... then I write those letters in the floor plan. If, when you're done doing this, you have extra space, you COULD do a 24" fridge and 2 freezer drawers, but you may find after you try to fit your stuff into your layout, that you don't want to lose all that cabinet/drawer space.

Good luck!!

Jenny,

What a great question! For me, the answer is definitely that I'd go for less cold storage before I went with a smaller sink. No doubt in my mind!

However, nobody has mentioned the dishwashers that are designed to fit under the sink yet.

I"m linking to one made by GE. The idea is that you can get a nice BIG sink, And the dishwasher goes underneath half of it. I wouldn't put it squarely under the sink because you are going to want it off to one side for loading but it could be just what you were looking for. One large single bowl sink that is say 36" put into say a 42" cabinet/space. That would give you 24" for the dishwasher on one side and 18" of standing room when the door was open. Right now you are spending 24" on the dishwasher and 28" on the sink base. That's 52". So you'd even have an extra 10" for elsewhere.

I dunno. Just an idea.

The dishwasher has smaller cubic and such then a normal dishwasher but if if I'd chose the sink over fridge, I'd chose the sink and fridge over dishwasher.

Here is a link that might be useful: Undersink Dishwasher

i was in the exact same boat!!! this is what i decided:

1. i went with a 30" standard fridge with freezer on bottom.

2. i went with 24" DW, chose the miele, it is a bit smaller and bought me a 1/2" (it is that tight a fit...)

3. THE KEY - THE MAGIC OF IT ALL: I WAS ABLE TO FIT A 30" SHAW FARM SINK AS I WENT CUSTOM CABINETS!!! I would highly encourage you to investigate local cabinet makers if you have not already (learned this on this site). your kitchen is small - for a very nominal increase if at all you could get what you want - you are not as restricted in cabinet sizes when you go custom. my cabinetmaker has worked wonders to get this to fit. I think a 30" sink is a requirement - otherwise too hard to wash pots and pans etc.

cabinets under construction right now...will keep you posted.

Id rather have the larger fridge and smaller sink unless the sink was tiny. I like to stock up and with 2 growing boys, cannot imagine going smaller for refrigeration. I work outside the home so also do not care to grocery shop every other day...

My current fridge is 33 inches wide and sink is 25. I've always considered them full standard size, but not luxury size.

My mom has a 24" fridge which works for her but she's single and eats yogurt and sandwich meat (ok maybe more but it's almost always empty). It's tiny and in a fully done kitchen would look even smaller (she's in a cute little cabin so it works) but for two or more people...eash never!!! Way way too small!!

Standard is 30 to 36 depending on if you have a side by side or not (and I have two 36" side by sides...I probably wouldn't do them again...the fridge is too small even in a sub zero).

I know you love your DW but just think it through because while you might have a good appliance there, going down that few inches in the DW isn't felt as badly as it is with a sink or DW. Weighing the cost, a really expensive fridge could eat up the cost of a new DW (about 800 for the one I mentioned) pretty quickly when you start having to search for the big money ones because of crazy space issues (don't ask me how I know this...)

I have a 36" sink in my smaller kitchen (maybe middle sized...13x15 or so). Gad I love that huge sink..12" deep...it's heaven for those of us who don't immediately wash every dish we use LOL

Igloo, I was thinking initially of a 24" all-fridge, not a 24" fridge/freezer. I think they're supposed to hold a lot! I would need freezer drawers though.

I'm now thinking of doing a 30" Liebherr bottom-mount fridge/freezer and maybe throwing in two fridge drawers. They're less expensive than the good freezer drawers. I currently have an old 36" Amana side by side. I hope they're not too dramatically different in capacity.

I'd like to do a 33" fridge, but am worried the companies are phasing them out; then it'll be hard to replace it. I'll post on the appliance forum to see what davidro1 has to say.

Thanks, Cohomom! It's frustrating, isn't it?

Actually, you have more usable space than we do! Because the 10.5' is part of a leg of our "L," 3 feet of the space isn't usable for anything other than a corner something, like a lazy Susan or something (sorry, i'm pre-caffeine!). With the deep part of the counter at the corner (the corner shared with my other counter run) and the 11 inches or so that's part of the lazy susan set-up, I actually only have 7.5' for sink, dw, and fridge!
You could have actually put in a huge fridge, but you must not have needed it!

Maybe I should start another thread about lower cabinet corner things: like lazy susans or corner susans, or magic corners, or corner pull-outs that could save me counter space... Maybe my extra inches could come from them!!! I cannot translate 2-D into 3-D, and so have problems interpreting the specs on this kind of thing.
Does anyone know what corner thingies use up the least amount of adjoining counter space ( but, of course, still make full use of the corner with a mm to spare: lol!)??

Hi again, lyvia. Is your fridge counter depth or not? Also, do you wish it were bigger? It's nice to know that 33" could be considered standard for a fridge. I'm so addled these days, I don't know anymore what's standard and what isn't.

Sorry I wasn't clear. My sink bowl is 28X 20 and 12 inches deep. The fridge is 36 wide, counter depth due to small size kitchen. I would never give up the large sink but I don't store produce as we pick what we eat most days.

What about something like this, it looks like you could use a 30" cabinet and have a 30" exterior sink.

Here is a link that might be useful: 30

Can you not put the dishwasher around the corner on the other leg of the L? That's where ours is in our new kitchen and was like that for 30 years in our old kitchen. Don't let anyone tell you that it can't be done because it can. So you have the sink on one wall, then 12" for the lazy susan, the lazy susan in the corner, then 12" for the lazy susan on the other leg, then the dishwasher. Then you can have your big sink. Maybe you can post a plan with measurements?

Would this help at all (see link for info)?
It is a 27" wide bottom-freezer fridge combo (not sure if you are doing SS) that is counter depth.

Here is a link that might be useful: Fridge

FYI... Years ago, I had 33 SXS and could not find a replacement top/bottom type. I HATED SXS... I replaced with 33 inch top freezer which was not ideal but better than SXS. This got taken out and the entire kitchen reconfigured. I now have 36 integrated bottom freezer.

If you love SXS, you may not want to go with top/bottom. Most here are not SXS fans unless they are at least 42 wide.

What do you mean by upscale? Is it a neighborhood where most have built in or integrated frig or counter depth frig? If you are in a very upscale neighborhood, by the time the next buyer "replaces" the frig, the entire kitchen will be torn out. Therefore the idea of replacing the appliance will become a moot point. As long as you have a frig and a freezer in the kitchen, what sizes they are will be not that important at the time of re-sale, IMHO.

I live within the city limits. The houses/kitchens are not that big although the neighborhood is expensive. Most of the kitchens that I go into have 36 inch subzero or other built ins with freezer on the bottom. The next most common is 42 or 48 built in SXS.

I don't know anything about your situation but.... would it be better to move walls and make the kitchen really functional? Would it be better to put off doing the kitchen until you rehabbed the rest of the house?

We rehabbed our 3 story house over the last 15 years slowly but very expesively! We lived in our functional but ugly kitchen for years until we could afford to really do it right!

Thanks, noebee1313! You're right! I need to check out a 25" sink in person. And your planning hint is right on target! It seems boring, but I KNOW I need to do it, not just or figuring out HOW MUCH storage I need/have, but as or more important, the most sensible locations for everything. Thanks!!

Thanks, morgne! That's a great idea! I've never seen those! I need to read some reviews. It seems so simple and brilliant! Thanks, again!

Babushka_cat, we are DEFINATELY going custom. Every inch counts; it's like living on an urban houseboat: lol! Have you already gone with the 30" fridge? Did you move down in size? Or up? How is the transition? Thanks again for the hint!!

Hi dianalo, I'm a working mom, too! And I like to stock up on stuff! We have another fridge/freezer in our basement, as well as a huge freezer (we have a 125 lb dog who eats huge amounts of frozen raw food...but that's another story,) so, ideally I'd like to stick with the 36" fridge, but want a decent size sink. It's a balance. Thanks!!

Okay, blfenton, you have now officially given me peace of mind. Thank you, thank you!!
Of course, I could put it on the other side of the corner or even across from the sink in our island. It didn't occur to me, but of course (hitting side of head with palm.). Brilliant! To tell the truth, for the past 8 years, our dishwasher has been across a corner AND over a stack of shallow drawers from our sink, hardly ideal, but not horribly inconvenient. It just means drips on the floor to be swabbed up.
Now I can relax, knowing that I can have a 36" fridge AND a big deep sink to hide dishes in during meals. Yay!

kaismom, you are correct. I'm in an an urban neighborhood where the houses and kitchens are small, but the neighborhood is expensive; that's us, exactly.

The dimensions I'm giving you ARE our post-renovation dimensions; we ARE renovating our whole house: all three floors! Our fridge counter run was unable to be altered, but the other counter run is being lengthened by over 45" (that's a lot, for us) and we're knocking out an adjoining (support) wall and changing a peninsula to an island.

I don't know if "doing it right" necessarily means doing it as expensively as possible. And, what makes you think we're not "doing it right?" I'm happy to spend money where I have to, but I'm attempting not to throw it away. Most people in our neighborhood have counter-depth or built-in fridges, and we also will also get a counter-depth or built-in fridge to maximize the space in our tiny kitchen: not because our neighbors have them, but because it works best for us. We inherited a side by side when we moved in, and it's the first time I've had one. I've never liked it and have wanted a bottom-mount one door fridge since we moved in. But it made no sense to replace it until our renovation. So, here we are.

I like to save money where it doesn't matter (to me,) so I CAN spend it on gorgeous counters or an amazing range (things that DO matter to me.) Maybe I'll go for a sub-zero fridge, but I think there are other brands that are super quality (Liebherr) that would allow me to save some money that I could then spend elsewhere (on items that I really care about.) Is that not "doing it right?"

I hope I didn't come across too defensively in my previous post to you, but I felt like you were making some assumptions that offended me, for some reason (probably hormonally-mediated: lol) Please accept my apologies.

Ah, my friend clueless! Thanks for the suggestion! How can one not love a 30" sink in a 30" cab? Thanks again, too, for the 3-D rendition of my space and the software rec on a previous thread of mine!!! You're awesome!!

Dahlialove, thanks for the great suggestion! I AM doing stainless steel, and that rec is very useful! Thanks for thinking of me and taking the time to post!

Dretutz, thanks so much for clarifying! Actually, it WAS super useful! I thought you were intending the opposite meaning, and then with your second response, I saw that you have a huge sink that you love! Lol! I'm going your route and continuing with a 36" counter depth fridge/freezer and a large sink (30 or 33) and a full dw (even if it has to be on a different counter run or in my island.) Thanks, again!

What direction did your basic design take? Is the fridge on the window wall or the stair wall? In my current AWFUL kitchen that we bought, we have a sink with a 21" interior which really would be fine if it were not for the BIZARRE little corner sink in the upper right hand corner that houses the GD. If it weren't there, I could put a cookie sheet down flat. As it is now it fits on a diagonal. BLECH. I digress, sorry. We have a very small kitchen and can only use a 27" SB. We are either going to use a 25" Blanco (441025) which gives a 23" interior or a soapstone apron that will just fit in a 27". Can't wait to see what you are going to do!

hi again, cluelessincolorado!

I'll post a layout when I get my computer/scanner connection working again, but I'm going with an L-shaped kitchen, (from left to right) with an upper "interior window" or framed opening, of 36" (with 36" drawers underneath), then a 30" (or possibly 36") range, then 30" drawers, then the corner lazy susan or whatever corner shelving thingie, then the 30" sink under the (leaded-glass) window, a 24" dishwasher and the fridge. I'm hoping right now to go for a 30" Liebherr (cabinet-depth) or possibly a 30" regular-depth Kitchen Aid or Whirlpool Gold (to gain more volume from having more depth.) If I go the latter route, I'll make the counter deeper (along that wall) to allow the fridge to look more built-in. Then I'll have a 5 x 5" island, as well. (We're still having an L-shaped sofa one side of the room (past the other side of the island,) and a dining table with one cozy banquette bench on the other side of the room.)

I'm going to have a pull-out pantry a few steps away that'll be full-height, and about 42" wide (I don't know how deep yet.) We will have a large storage room/pantry (with shelving and (as above) an extra fridge/freezer, and standing freezer) one flight down in our finished basement.

I'm super excited.

Make any sense?

Thanks so much for asking!!