oh, yes! we didn't DIY, but we had it done, and I will only ever have epoxy grout again! Make sure you know what you're doing or hire someone who is agreeable to doing it because it is more tricky to work with.

Could you explain what you mean by more tricky? Thanks.

I don't have epoxy grout in the kitchen, but do have it in both tiled bath surrounds in two heavily used bathrooms.

I do all the tiling in our house, so I worked with it myself, and I can say after living with it for a few years, it wasn't really worth it, at least for us.

It IS harder to work with than regular grout, and by that I mean it's stickier and goopier than regular grout, which makes it harder to float into the grout lines, it dries quicker, which means you have less working time, and you absolutely have to get every last speck off the tile before it cures, otherwise it will NEVER EVER come off, absent the application of high explosives.

Our epoxy grout is white, and frankly, I find it no easier to clean than regular grout, and it may resist stains marginally better than regular grout, but not enough to make it worth it-- I still have permanently discolored spots.

YMMV, of course!

As a tile contractor I have installed epoxy grout many times. The first time on my own kitchen tile over 20 years ago.It has been slightly improved since then.It is true that it is very difficult to work with.The main concern for you is that all surfaces that the installers have to touch(door handles,flooring etc.)are covered or protected in some way.
The grout when cured(I believe about 48 hrs.)is mostly impervious to staining,chipping and cracking. I say mostly because mine did discolor a bit after many years, along with some hairline cracks.That was with the first generation of epoxy grout.Over the life of the tile the grout will hold up much much better than a cement based grout even with sealing.Although I wouldn't spend the extra money unless I was installing a high quality porcelain or equivalent.Granite tiles etc.

Great discussion on epoxy grout. I am a DIYer. The only time I used epoxy grout was on the floor of our custom shower. I was unprepared for how fast it dried which made it harder to float. Prewarned I think I would be able to do a better job the second time around.

THe idea of using epoxy in the kitchen is intriguing. ANy comment from those with more experieince than I if you would use epoxy with travertine tile? (Frankly, it sounds a little scary.)

"The worst case for epoxy would be very thin grout lines with lots of air at the bottom (which might be invisible to your DIY eye)."

Davidro1 - so using epoxy grout with granite tile would be a bad idea? what if you pre-grouted with cement grout first?

As with everything, talk to the installer (if that's not you) and get an estimate.

Sometimes "much more expensive" is a very relative number.

I have epoxy grout. I'm not tidy and it has held up well and cleans easily. There is no side-by-side comparison, but my contractor was recently convinced that this was what he should be using, so I gave him the nod.

yes, very well explained. we did our whole kitchen/dining area, and we had three guys all working together. They were awesome!

How hard is it to partially fill with thinset or cement grout? Any suggestions to make this easier? Thanks.

I have epoxy grout in my laundry room and love it. It is so much easier to keep clean than the sanded grout I have elsewhere. I didn't diy but I remember my installer saying he had to work quickly. After 5 years I've never had to clean the grout--just scrub the floor and I'm done.

>It is true that it is very difficult to work with.

Nah. Laticrete's isn't bad. It's a bit touchier than regular grout, particularly on vertical surfaces, and must be done in smaller batches, but I wouldn't hesitate on a glazed tile. It's quite a bit more expensive, of course. HAven't tried it on natural stone or on rough-surfaced ceramics yet, though.

When I do my slate floor, I'll likely go epoxy, BUT I'll make grout in the cracks part of the "look". After all, if it doesn't get filled with grout, it'll get filled with dirt, right? I wouldn't try it if I intended to keep grout out of the cracks, though.

There are only two instances where I DON'T think epoxy grout in a residential installation is a super expensive overkill. Those two times are one-- if you're doing a tile countertop, you want to make sure you have a grout that's not going to absorb meat juices, etc., that can become dangerous. The epoxy is most certainly warranted then. The other time is if you have pets who may be prone to "accidents". Once again, you don't want that soaking into the grout. Other than that, you're just as well off to use a little common sense in picking your grout colors (as in, you don't want white grout in your MUD room!), using medium to dark colors in high traffic areas.

Bill, using your logic about things penetrating - such as pet accidents, would it then also make sense to recommend it for a light colored backsplash? After all, tomato based stuff and grease both can penetrate.

It's personal preference, but I very strongly dislike (even abhor) the look of light tile with dark grout - and being a fan of light and bright everything, I wouldn't choose a dark tile. Every time I go into a public restroom I actually look at the flooring corners to see what the original grout color was and what is filth. Usually the grout is a brown shade and the filth is near black. I totally associate dark grout/light tile with public restroom floors. EW.

So I'd personally take a pink formica countertop on 80s builder grade oak any day of the week over light tile with dark grout. So really if you HAVE to go with light grout because you have light tile and abhor dark grout, is there any other way beside epoxy?

This whole grout mess was the biggest reason I eliminated a tile floor in my kitchen. Knowing me I would be on my hands and knees with a bucket of bleach and a toothbrush every day. Everyone has their hangups and I think dirty grout is mine!

My husband owns a flooring store and installed all of the tile in our current house using epoxy. We have tile in the bathrooms, kitchen/dining, and utility/entry areas.

I have been really pleased with it! We have light grout, and with some scrubbing, it always looks brand new. I have kids and a giant dog, too, so my house gets a lot of abuse.

That being said, my husband is with Bill V. on this...he thinks that epoxy is generally overkill in residential applications, and has said that he doubts he'll do it again in our next house.

I think it depends so much on your individual circumstances...

HTH

Is epoxy grout overkill only for non-messy people? Someone mentioned coffee and red wine spills staining grout. Does that only happen if the cement grout hasn't been sealed? I've never had tile before so I want to be sure I do it right. I know mine will be abused, but not by pets.

I'm not into hands-and-knees floor scrubbing, and there are MANY applications in which a light epoxy makes sense!

I have white tiles on my bathroom floor. I can keep even white unsanded grout white, but it requires twice-yearly scrubbing on hands and knees on the floor. No thanks! I also have people in the house whose aim is, shall we say, imperfect. I LOVE my epoxy grout! We also have water that leaves rust stains on everything--but my super-light epoxy grout hasn't shown a mark in the tub area even though it take major, regular work to de-rust my silicone caulk.

Not to say that Bill's wrong, but Bill prolly isn't that finicky of a housekeeper or is okay with mud-colored grout in applications that I don't want it in!

Sealers wear off or can be applied inconsistently. If I'd seal it, I'd go with epoxy grout instead.

BTW, I prefer to make it quite chilly and use my hands (gloved!) to force it into narrow joints on the floor. It REALLY isn't very hard. REALLY!

We used epoxy grout in our mudroom and "kids" bath. In both cases the grout color is fairly light, sort of a warm sand color. In the mudroom is was 100% justified. We probably could have skipped it in the "kids" bathroom. I know the tile installer, by BIL, hated working with it. I wish I had used it in my shower, where the light gray grout is now brown from our water minerals.

Yes, it's worth the money for the kitchen use. However, you cannot use it on granite tile because you have to clean tiles with vinegar so it can damage granite.

Bill, using your logic about things penetrating - such as pet accidents, would it then also make sense to recommend it for a light colored backsplash? After all, tomato based stuff and grease both can penetrate.

Two comments on this. First, you won't get NEARLY as much on the backsplash, if any at all, that'll stay (gravity works!) :-) I mean, I'm sure you don't take that juice soaked absorbant pad out of your ckicken package and hold it against the backsplash to make sure it soaks in! :-) Secondly, you won't be fixing your family's meals on top of the backsplash, so you don't have to worry about germs getting into the meals.

So really if you HAVE to go with light grout because you have light tile and abhor dark grout, is there any other way beside epoxy?

grout colorant. Best stuff since sliced bread with reference to using lighter colored grouts in high traffic areas. The one I've linked below basically forms a hard shell over the top of the grout, permanently sealing it, and making it as easy to clean as the face of the tile itself.

This whole grout mess was the biggest reason I eliminated a tile floor in my kitchen. Knowing me I would be on my hands and knees with a bucket of bleach and a toothbrush every day. Everyone has their hangups and I think dirty grout is mine!

Oxyclean is a beautiful thing!! :-)

I have white tiles on my bathroom floor. I can keep even white unsanded grout white, but it requires twice-yearly scrubbing on hands and knees on the floor. No thanks!

reyesuela-- I see you said you have a "light colored grout", as opposed to a WHITE epoxy grout. I want to make something very clear to anyone reading this. The very LAST product you want to use is white epoxy grout, especially if used as a design element. ANYONE'S epoxy grout, including Spectralock. There's a problem with them that no one seems to have been able to work out yet. That problem is that the white grout tends to take on a slightly yellowish hue to it, due to the yellow color of the epoxy matrix. Some are worse than others, but it's noticeable with ALL of them.

Bill prolly isn't that finicky of a housekeeper or is okay with mud-colored grout in applications that I don't want it in!

Neither. Grout really isn't that hard to keep clean. Yes, you'll see traffic patterns over time, but you'll also see that with epoxy, as well. Same with aging. It'll darken the grout a bit as it gets older. This is mainly because as you wash the floor, you're actually imbedding a small amount of the dirt you're cleaning up, back into the grout with the mop. This is why anyone who's been here for a while has seen when I've advised people about deep cleaning the grout, NOT to use a mop, but rather brush thew solution into the grout, and then pick it up with a wet vac. That way, nothing gets pushed into the pores of the grout, and its color will last a whole lot longer. One way or the other, it'll happen with all grout. Not just conventional grout. 90% of the time, you won't even see it, until you move cabinets, so something similar, where the grout's been covered since it was new.

Sue-- try the colorant. If you know a showroom down there that carries Daltile (almost all of them do along the coast), they can get the Aquamix colorant thru the Portland Dal warehouse. You won't ever have discoloring problems again.

Here is a link that might be useful: Aquamix Grout Colorant

Bill,

You may recall that I accidentally used two different grout colors in my bathroom (one bag was not what was labeled), so I plan to color all of it a darker gray using Aquamix. But before I do that I need to CLEAN it all. I would rather spent 2 hours shoveling snow (which I just did) than clean that damn shower with OxyClean! I will get to it eventually though!

Ha ha-- we only got about 3" up here. :-)

>reyesuela-- I see you said you have a "light colored grout", as opposed to a WHITE epoxy grout. I want to make something very clear to anyone reading this. The very LAST product you want to use is white epoxy grout, especially if used as a design element. ANYONE'S epoxy grout, including Spectralock. There's a problem with them that no one seems to have been able to work out yet. That problem is that the white grout tends to take on a slightly yellowish hue to it, due to the yellow color of the epoxy matrix. Some are worse than others, but it's noticeable with ALL of them.

YES!! Sorry. It's one of the palest grays, and it is NOT yellowing, but the epoxy itself is yellow enough that there's no white that could disguise it. Just doesn't work.

Bill, I don't really care about my backsplash being sanitary cause you are right, we don't cook on it. And honestly, we just demoed the tile countertops we had for the last 6 years and they were super unsanitary (I just wiped with water usually) and downright nasty and none of us got sick. We are an extremely healthy family. So that's not a concern. And the one thing I know from those tile countertops: grout is filthy. Always. Even hours after you bleach and scrub it clean.

My big concern is having to scrub (and scrub and scrub and scrub and scrub and scrub) to get the splatters and grease off the grout. I had to wipe down the back part of our freestanding range before. It always seemed to collect grease which then collected a layer of dust mixed with the spatters of food. If wiping down the plastic and metal of the range was no fun, I can already envision what a nightmare the grout of the backsplash will be. And it will likely be a mosaic behind there so LOTS of grout.

I was thinking epoxy grout will remove that nightmare, but you say that's not the case? Is my only decent option in your opinion normal grout and then having to recolor my ENTIRE backsplash grout (so it matches-even though it will likely only need it behind the cooktop) including all the grout between my mosaics?

My installer never used Spectralock grout from Lowe's and refused to read instructions. He did a good job in the front tile area but since he mixed two batches together the middle foyer's grout did not all set right and really needs someone to add grout to areas that do not have enough or that had cracked after a little more than a year. It was like this the day after he did the job.

The front foyer's grout was allowed to set and was worked on first so it does not stain but the middle foyer's grout stains from the pee that misses the puppy pads which upsets me. I wish I hired someone who would have followed instructions.

While epoxy grout is sanded and so has a little texture, it is smoother than regular sanded grout. Not only is it very stain resistant, then, it has fewer places to catch food bits. It would be much easier to clean, then.

when all is said and done, you can teach an old human new tricks but you can't get him to like the process or the result. That is the way it is. With epoxy cement or anything else. Another person with less ingrained learning about Portland cement will approach the epoxy setting process with no interference.

Consumers who have epoxy admire the result.

Oldtime tilesetters have to unlearn themselves first. Print out the instructions. Photocopy them at 200% size, so they're way _easier _to _read. Make a batch of copies so they're always on hand.
-

back about 5 years ago, I did a master bathroom for someone on the bathrooms forum who went by the name johnmari. I did her bathroom floor in a bone colored 1" hex tile, and used Spectralock's Almond grout, in spite of the fact that I'd told her there wouldn't be much difference with reference to the grout grabbing and holding onto dirt. Within a week after I'd finished she posted on the bathrooms forum that it was catching dirt just like any other grout.

This is NOT an old dog/ new tricks thing.

Only agree partially.

One of my epoxy installs produced that result you described, a dirt grabbing grout. The other times it produced the opposite. Remember that the people who have epoxy like having it. As posted above.

In any case, with a steamer you can clean anything easily. No soaps.

Thanks so much for all the responses. Although, I'm not sure I'm any closer to a decision. Will a steamer do a good job on regular grout?

Yes.

Bill are there any problems with using a steamer regularly on either epoxy grout or regular grout? After reading your posts about not using harsh cleaning agents like clorox on regular grout I've been reluctant to use anything except a really mild solution of Oxi-clean. But I thought you suggested to even use that sparingly.

I have a large area (30 x 30) of oatmeal colored tile with matching epoxy and I used to do it on my knees with a brush and lots of dry towels. But I can't do that any longer and I think my best bet is to buy a floor cleaner with brushes and 2 tanks - one with hot water and a mild cleaning solution of OxiClean and the other that holds the suctioned dirty water. That way I'm hoping the brushes will scrub the grout and the dirty water won't remain behind. But then I keep reading how people love the steam cleaners and I wondering if that would be sufficient - and a whole lot cheaper, lighter and easier to store. Or maybe both - use the machine when really dirty and the steamer in between.

Oh my what a quandary. But I do love my tile.

Here's my .02 cents worth - after installing literally hundreds of thousands
of square feet of tile over the last 32 years, epoxy IMHO is worth it MOST
to the people tha sell it to consumers - what I mean is - like Bill V. has said -
unless you are using it on a countertop that's tiled and you have a lot of
meat and fruit juices that could stain a conventional joint filler - or you
are using a flooring application where there are pet accidents....

Other than that - I think that epoxy grout is a waste of time and money.

Why do most tile places recommend epoxy grout to consumers? Because
MOST consumers do not know any better, and they dogmatically take the "word"
of the sales man that sells them the tile AND their setting materials - or
"suggests" that the consumer's tile contractor "should obviously use epoxy
grout" if the consumer wants the "best" installation possible......

Most people consider epoxy (IMHO) because they are concerned about the
grout STAINING from normal use.... OK - here's a news flash - IF you
use a dark colored tile on your floor, and you grout it with WHITE grout -
IT"S GONNA STAIN!!! Regardless of whether you use an epoxy, or a latex
additive - it's going to get discolored by normal DIRT!!
PERIOD - End of Discussion...

Here's what has worked for ME over the last 32+ years I have been in the biz:

I recommend that IF people are all hot and bothered about their grout staining,
they be "procative" and choose a grout color that is closest to the
NATURAL COLOR OF DIRT as possible... I have been using a color called
"#145 Light Smoke" for years with outstanding results - it's made by Custom,
and people that have used this color have had a significant decrease in staining
noticeability..... over other clients that HAVE used a high contrast color-
such as a whte or off-white grout - once the floor goes into service -
normal foot traffic brings in dirt, which shows up as "traffic patterns"
and stains on the grout.....pretty much cause and effect....

The only places that I believe an epoxy grout is REALLY warranted, is in
an industrial application, and even then - most of the grout that I have installed
in places like Miller Brewing, Usinger's, Patrick Cudahy, Kraft Foods, Hunt's, Hormel and
other meat, cheese and brewery facilities in the mid-west, used carbo-alkor
or furan grouts that resist most nasty acids...that's a WHOLE OTHER WORD!!!

IMHO - For a "normal" residence - a conventional joint filler that is colored closest to the
natural color of DIRT will work just fine....

my .02 cents

kevin

mcmann-- This is why I'm usually reluctant to post to these epoxy threads. 99% of the time, cleaning with plain hot water, or using one of these new home floor steamers is all that's needed. The thing with the home steamers is you don't get as hot a steam, or as deep a penetration as the professional machines-- not even close-- so yes, they're fine for normal cleaning.

You're right to keep the use of cleaning agents to a minimum because it's just not usually necessary, and many of them will harm the grout over time. From what I've seen Oxyclean is NOT one of those, which is why I recommend it so highly-- that and it does a damn good job.

People, this is supposed to be the whole beauty of having a ceramic floor-- the lack of required maintenence!! Don't overthink it! Relax and enjoy it!

I don't have a whole lot to add to this thread, as I'm not an expert. But I've put epoxy grout in much of my house, and one tip I have, for those who choose to do the same. Since the warmer it is the shorter the work time you have, I'll mix up a batch and put 2/3 of it into the freezer to keep the temp down. I'll get the other 1/3 worked in and cleaned with vinegar, then take the freezer batch and put another 1/3 down and cleaned, then the final 1/3. That's the quantity that works with my pace of grouting, and I've put down grout that was in the freezer for several hours with no ill effects. I left one batch in for several days once and it wouldn't thaw, so there's a limit to this.

Oh, and one other difference between cement and epoxy grout: epoxy grout doesn't change color when wet like the regular stuff. Just in case that was a deciding factor for someone. :-)

weedyacres, thank you for that. Both good points that help homeowners do it themselves.

I've also kept it cool before mixing, and put mixed epoxy grout in the freezer in order to have more open time.

It certainly is true also that the color remains the same. Wet or dry, it's impervious and stable.

kevin didn't address the fact that a lot of people like to have light colored grout in their home. Also, he confused dirt with staining. Epoxy grout never gets s*tains. You wipe it clean. The old-fashioned kind of grout lets staining liquids into its pores, so it can definitely stain. Just in case that was a deciding factor for someone. :-)

What is the preferred type of grout for shower walls? (ceramic tiles over green board) Epoxy or cement? If cement, what type of sealer? Water base or other?
Any help from you veteran tilers would be appreciated.

Thanks

I've been pouring over the net trying to find info on how to store already-mixed Spectralock, if it's even possible, and came across this thread. Lots of good information but no one mentions this - Spectralock is so much more expensive than standard sanded grout that i'd hate to waste it and because it was our first time using it, we were concerned about sagging and air bubbles and whether or not we would have to do any touch-ups. Anyway, we completed the project last night and it looks incredible. We put the unused grout in a ziploc and then in the refrigerator and thought, if it doesn't keep, oh well. As of this morning, it's almost rock-hard but still able to be dented just slightly. I doubt it will thaw enough to use, if needed. Does anyone else have any ideas on how to store epoxy grout for a day or two?

Danach - the freezer worked for me. Refrigeration probably doesn't retard it enough. Not sure you can salvage what's already hardened, but I did keep about a pint of already-mixed epoxy grout in the freezer for 2 days before using it again, and it didn't seem too much worse for the wear.

PS: for those who need quick grout information (and our resident expert Bill V is not here), there's no better place on the web to ask than at John Bridge's Tile forum, linked below:

Here is a link that might be useful: John Bridge Tile Advice Forum

I've been pouring over the net trying to find info on how to store already-mixed Spectralock, if it's even possible,

It's not. Once it's mixed, it sets off a chemical reaction that once started, can't be stopped. Cold will retard the reaction somewhat, but not for very long. Quite honestly, if someone had asked me if they could keep it for even a day, much less a couple, in the freezer, I would've said I doubt it. I also don't know if holding the reaction off for that long in the cold will cause any ill effects somewhere down the line. I think I'm going to ask my friends at Laticrete, and see what they say.

Bumping up this thread since my installer is coming by tomorrow and does not want to use the Spectralock and I have pets that make mistakes.

Do not use Spectra lock epoxy grout, it is impossible to clean. I used it on one shower in my new home and it is impossible to clean so will have to be removed. I was so frustrated with it I used a 2500 psi power washer on it. The power washer was wearing the grout away and the stain was still there. I called the company in the beginning, no help.

That stain was probably not from dirt but from poorly mixed grout. My epoxy grout on the kitchen floor was install by a bunch of amateurs and it was 10 different colors because they probably had never used epoxy grout before this. Anyway, if your problem is just staining, I would first try to recolor your shower it with Aqua Mix grout colorant which is what I did on my kitchen floor and it really came out nice. Much easier than removing the grout!

I used epoxy grout in my shower. It slumped in the vertical, corners. Can I use epoxy grout over top of the existing epoxy grout to fill in the slumped area???

If you have made it this far.....100% acrylic grout is the new thing. It looks like sanded grout but is acrylic (plastic) so it doesn't suck up stains like cemetious grouts. And it is premixed so the color is perfect ever time AND no no efflorescence. It is as easy to work with than traditional grout...Not like epoxy. And it has a two year shelf life in the tub so less waste. Like acylic paint, it cures with air exposure and continues to harden for some time. I used it on my last bathroom and was very pleased.

and yes you can use epoxy grout over epoxy grout that has slumped...one of the beautiful traits of epoxy is it sticks to almost any substrate...and it never comes off...ever.

Primary reason to use epoxy grout is it's waterproof. which makes it perfect for bathroom and kitchens. No the other reasons are significant as far as I'm concerned because they all grout have issues but you get water damage you're looking at a total repair...... showers, bathtubs and backsplashes. It dries quicker but if you've got two people working on it one puts it on the other wipes it off within the required time necessary to keep it from damaging your tile or preventing you from removing it properly.

I had a contractor who was very experienced with epoxy grout apply it in my downstairs bathroom. It does "slump" as others have mentioned, resulting in terribly shallow application on the floor, exposing tile corners you could feel with your toes. After much research on the Spectralock epoxy grout website, I found a PDF file advising reapplication over the existing grout, as a solution to shallow grout application. YES, you can apply epoxy grout over dried epoxy grout!! I printed out the PDF and called Spectralock customer service to confirm. YES was their answer. Even my experienced contractor did not know about this. It pays to READ people! I'm super happy with the outcome.

Can it be applied after several years?