I have never used P&L, but Benjamin Moore has two products you should look at. Oil based Satin Impervo and Dulamel. Dulamel comes in flat and Satin Impervo is the choice trim paint for most painters that still use oil (I think there are about 6 of these guys left).

I don't agree that oil based paint holds up better. I honesty think they are equal in durability. Logic may dictate that a water based product can get damaged with water but the curing process of an acrylic paint film is what makes the paint durable enough so that it would take an awful lot of scrubbing with water in order to damage the film.

Oil based paint is a poor choice for humid and moist environments because mildew and mold breed and grow faster on oil than latex.

Also, don't forget that oil based paints yellow over time, they stink, take forever to dry and the dried film is brittle. Really, that is the biggest drawback to using oil IMO. Brittle paint means that if you have painted trim and have everything caulked, as soon as that caulk moves the paint falls off. It's not like that with latex. The paint will move and flex a bit with the shifting caulk. I know this because I go back into houses I painted 10 years ago with oil and houses that I painted 10 years ago with latex. Honestly, I'm embarassed of the oil based jobs. All the mitres are open, everything needs to be recaulked....not to mention the yellow. That's why I'm anti-oil at this point. I know what it will look like in 10 years. Basic point...durability is not the only issue.

EXACTLY what Paintguy said!!!

Also...
ACE (has made their own paint for 20+ yrs....) has discontinued 99% of Alkyd/Oil paint production- as of nearly 2 YEARS AGO.

OIL use for painting interiors is basically over.

Some "Old-School" painters still refuse to change with the times. They just don't understand all the new formulations these days.
Soon...the "Oil paints allowed in Qts. only" exemption in California will be closing as well.

Sooooo...do yourself, your home, AND the atmosphere a favor and use Latexes!!

There are a few good "No/Low-VOC" paints out there too.
If you're near a C2 retailer, the new LOVO (Low-Voc) line is real nice.
P & L is a real good line as well.

I wouldn't consider using an Oil in my home...
Modern Latexes have rendered them-
OBSOLETE.

Faron

Forgive me, but I fundamentally disagree about oil-based paint, and I showed you the government test which backs up my statement. "Oil-based flat enamel performed better than any other paint". Their words.

Like with cellulose insulation, there is a lot of misinformation which originates in marketing departments and wends its way through the industry and the DIY culture...and you end up with people rock-solidly convinced of things that simply aren't true, and then they spread those convictions around. I put a lot of value on experience, and if the old guys who have been painting professionally since Truman was President feel that oil-base is better, far be it from I to question their knowledge.

It has been my experience that there is a big difference between the enamel and non-enamel paints, and enamel paints are tougher and really hold up better, especially to moisture.

One final side-note...using the actions of the state of California as an indicator of rational and correct and valuable things to do is like using Groundhog Day to determine the length of winter. :-)

It's perhaps splitting hairs. Both latex- and oil-base paints will put nice color on the walls. What I'm more concerned with is folks opinions about Pratt & Lambert, especially vs. Benjamin Moore and Sherwin Williams, which are also available in this area.

It's not splitting hairs at all. You have to compare oil vs latex on the whole, not just in terms of durability. If you do that, latex wins every single time. The word enamel just means 'film forming' or that it forms a hard surface. This is not a term used with oil based paints alone. Latex and acrylics can also be enamels. Your fingernail is an enamel and you have enamel on your teeth. The government article was for flood damage, not every day normal conditions.

It's true what you say about misinformation, but it's also true that human beings are naturally resistant to change. Some of the old timers refuse to change, which means they refuse to experiment with new technologies. Now, you say that the old guys that have been painting professionally since Truman have the knowledge? How can they have the knowledge if they haven't even tried the new coatings?

I question every painter. Don't care how long they've been painting. Just because someone has done the same thing the same way for 10, 20, 30 years doesn't make them an all encompassing expert. Assuming that all painters are craftsmen and are paint and color experts is a mistake.

I greatly dislike oil. I just bought a new house and someone thought it was a good idea to do all of the trim and rather significant mouldings and detailed 8ft doors in gloss oil. Wish they hadn't. It's already starting to yellow behind some doors and in some closets. To add insult to injury, the plantation shutters had to be done in oil too so they matched said trim and mouldings. The shutters were installed on Tuesday and my house still stinks to high heaven -- I hate it. To the extent we are going away for the weekend.

I know the oil is going to chip and ding like nobody's business and I know it's not going to touch up gracefully. I've seen first-hand what happens with oil in other people's homes and what a pain it is. I have two boys and a dog, our homes get lived in. Oil is not a good fit for me - if ya didn't catch that already. :-)

My opinion is just pick one and buy the best quality you can when it comes to the three brands you've thrown out there. Accolade, Aura, Super Paint or Duration from SW not sure you're gonna see that big of a difference in the bigger picture of things. And *enamel* isn't going to hold up any better than any other flavor of label they decide to slap on the can if proper prep isn't done.

Focusing on the specifics of the substrate is a better use of time than focusing on how the marketing department decided to spin words on the can and in the brochure, IMO.

What you can physically do is buy samples and see what you think of the paints -- even an oil or two. Compare. See how the service is at the stores and check out the color palettes.

If you hire a painter and he/she happens to like one of the three brands better, then go with the brand he/she prefers to work with. There are other things to consider when committing to a brand in addition to all the technical stuff.

If you are still hard pressed on using oil- I would recommend using Ben Moore's --

Satin Impervo® Enamel C235

A premium quality, low lustre, alkyd enamel. Satin Impervo Enamel possesses superb leveling and hiding qualities, and is easy to apply with brush, roller or spray gun. It has excellent sag resistance and clings to sharp edges and corners.

I use the waterborne for customers in the impervo and I love working with it as well as SW- Pro classic.
Some of the painter's here use Porter's alkyd trim paint and they seem to like it really good; (but then again it's oil- and I use waterbase products).

Thanks for all the input. On the advice received here, I've decided against the oil-based paint. I intend to go with Pratt & Lambert's "Accolade interior acrylic latex velvet", which is a top-quality latex enamel paint with great reviews.

Thanks!

Well, I am confused. I've read this and other posts.

The painter thinks I should use oil on the trims, doors and kitchen cabinets and latex on the walls and ceilings. (He particularly thinks that I should use oil on the kitchen cabinets - which were custom-made).

My decorator thinks I should use oil on everything because of the better color.

The paint store manager indicated that the BM white I chose for the trims and K cabinets (Simply White and Mountain Peak, if anyone cares) will yellow, perhaps within a few months!

Is this just a BM problem or would I have the same issue if I used Farrow & Ball on the trims?

What to do???

All oil based paints will yellow. The brand does not matter. If it is oil, it will happen. The only time it may not be as noticeable is if the color was yellow initially or something dark like brown or black.

Why does your decorator think that oil based paint will provide better colors?

wryorwhite --

Don't be scared by all this talk of yellowing. It's exaggerated. Bear in mind that oil-based paint was essentially all that was used in American homes through the 1980s -- so unless you're a teenager, you were around when any house you'd walk into (including the one in which you grew up) had its walls painted with oil-based paint. Trust yourself and your own experience...do you ever remember walking into a house and thinking to yourself "My, these walls are awfully yellowed!"? I sure don't. When's the last time you've heard someone say "Oh, look at those walls! They've gone from looking like snow to looking like Big Bird! This is certainly oil-based paint!"? Never.

Yes, oil-based paint yellows very slighly with time. So do all oil-based products, including the clear polyurethane with which wood floors are most often finished. This "yellowing" effect is minimal, and it's not something that jumps out at you or is offensive or anything like that. You have to actively look for it, and the only people who do that are (a) homosexuals, and (b) people who work in the marketing departments of latex-based paint companies.

The drawbacks of latex-based paint have largely been resolved in the past few years. The latex-based paints of 2008 are a far cry from the ones of 20 years ago. This is especially true with the high-quality brands like Pratt & Lambert. Modern high-end latex pains bond to drywall well, hold up to moisture and cleaning well, etc.

However - latex-based paints aren't as good as oil-based paints when it comes to moisture and dirt resistance, standing up to scrubbing, and bonding to wood. They never can be, because oil (unlike latex) naturally resists water, and naturally soaks into wood (rather than just sitting on top like a skin). Think of what happens when you mix oil and water -- they don't mix; instead, they just separate and keep apart. So moisture and dirt don't bond to the oil-based paint, so it's very easy to clean without damage. In addition, oil-based paint soaks into wood -- unlike latex-based paint, which forms into a skin that you can peel off. This is one of the big drawbacks of using latex paint on high-traffic wood items (like kitchen cabinets). My house has latex-based paint on the walls and ceilings, and oil-based paint on all the wood trim (including the doors and windows and cabinets) -- this is a time-tested and popular arrangement, and it has held up very well for me and my neighbors.

Speaking of polyurethane -- there are two types, oil-based and water-based (latex-based) - same as paint. ALL of the manufacturers -- Minwax, Cabot, etc. -- recommend strongly in favor of using the oil-based polyurethane on floors. It's tougher, it holds up better to traffic and moisture, and this "yellowing" effect that the self-proclaimed experts yammer on about are so minimal as to be non-existent. The same is true with the oil-based vs. water-based (latex-based) paints. Again, trust yourself and your own experiences -- how many times have you walked into a home and thought to yourself that the painted walls and ceilings, or the wood floors, were yellowed?

that's going to look good and hold up well for decades

Good luck with that.

Re fasola shapenote's original post, DDT was such an effective pesticide, I just can't understand why those damned hippies wanted it banned. String 'em up I say

This is a 10+year old thread. Although it's entirely possible that the OP needs to repaint by now! ;-)

... and I still loathe oil-based paint.