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lynninnewmexico

House Training An Adult Rescue Dog: Need Advice & Suggestions !

16 years ago

I've just (thankfully!) found this forum, and am really hoping that I can get some good suggestions to help us with this problem . . . and soon! Some of you may already know me from GW's Decorating, Holidays and Kitchen forums, where I'm a regular.

My problem is our 3 y/o neutered male dobie, Ronin, that we adopted just 3 weeks ago from our local doberman rescue group.

Oh, and let me tell you quickly, that DH & I are not novice dog owners. Ronin is our 3rd dobie and our 7th dog in the 26 years we've been married. We KNOW dogs . . . but this is the first adult dog we've ever adopted. All the rest were puppies and we know how to train puppies.

Hx: Ronin came from a couple who had him from puppyhood, but gave him to the rescue group when their baby grew into a toddler and was getting knocked over by Ronin. (Their loss/ our gain!) So, he's had one home for 3 years and then a couple weeks in a foster home before he came to us. He was a house dog there and house trained, but we don't know what that situation was like. His foster family noted that the previous owner seemed unphased (or uncaring) when she dropped him off and Ronin never seemed to miss them. He took to the foster family quickly, though. So, that's something else you may want to consider. The general consensus of the rescue people, the foster family and us, is that he does not seem to have been physically or emotionally abused, was well-fed and was clean and had regular vet visits (we have copies from his vet visits there).

Our Take So Far: We've found Ronin to be very gentle, affectionate and good-natured. He's bonded wonderfully with myself, DH, DD (almost 15 y/o) and DS who was home on Winter Break from grad school when we got Ronin. We're very patient and affectionate people and good with dogs. We've also taken dog training classes before and know the right way to train a (young) dog/pup. Ronin doesn't have separation anxiety; isn't a destructive chewer; is not the least bit aggressive; gets along great at the dog park with other dogs and people. In other words, he's pretty near perfect except for . . .

Problem: we can't get Ronin to tell us when he needs to go out to relieve himself. Our 4 y/o Tibetan Spaniel comes up and does a low bark or growl to us when she needs to go out. We've taught all our puppies to do this with perfect results . . . until now. But, if we don't watch Ronin like a hawk he'll poop on the Oriental rug in the foyer with NO indication that he needed to go! We know he can bark and it's a healthy deep loud bark, but he only barks when someone's at the door. Ideal . . . except that we're tired of the accidents.

~ We've tried to teach him to speak on command when he needs to go out to no avail.

~ We've bought one of those doggie doorbells, but so far we can't get him to ring it.

~ he doesn't go to the door and scratch it (this is good!) or whine or even just stand and look at it until we notice him. He just poops in the foyer.

~We don't have a dog door from the house outside; we have a dog door from the (connected) garage into a 24ft x 6ft double-walled kennel, where they relieve themselves. The problem is that they have to tell us ~ somehow~ to let them out into the garage when they need to go . . . and Ronin doesn't!

~ we don't have a fenced in yard at the moment. We do have plans to have a walled yard put in this Spring if the economy picks up a bit

~We're thinking that Ronin probably had a dog door directly from the house into the backyard at his last home, although we don't know for sure. We live on acres of land here in the mountains, surrounded by other homes with the same, but dogs are not allowed to run free here!

~ Invisible fencing is allowed, but we have problems out here with plague (yes, the bubonic one), Hanta Virus, coyotes and rattlers that make allowing your dogs to run free, extremely risky at best.

~Ronin has an accident perhaps once or twice a week, although never peeing. All the other times, we/I just take him out to the kennel and lock him in until he goes, when we let him right back in, praising him, "Good dog, kennel!". He only needs to poop twice a day, but the timing is never predictable.

~ Another Ronin quirk: if we're out there in or near the kennel, he won't move off the step. I'm serious! This dog will only poop if no one is looking!

~ We never yell or hit him when he has an accident. We just show him and tell him, "NO . . . bad dog! Kennel!" Pick up the poop and take it and him to the kennel where we put it down and say, "Kennel . . . good dog, kennel" We then meticulously clean the rug using a good quality dog accident cleaner & deodorizer.

~ adding a dog door from the laundry room into the garage is against fire code here, so we can't.

~ One last Factoid: I'm home all day with the dogs, so they get plenty of attention, long walks, play time, have lots of toys and get lots of affection. When I need to be away, both do well in the house together without crating. We have a big, long, one story home, so they don't get cramped or bored.

I/We could sure use some advice as to how to help Ronin.

I apologize that this is a long post, but I didn't want to waste anyone's time giving me suggestions until you knew all the facts.

Many thanks!

Lynn

My sweet furkid, Ronin:

{{gwi:2009639}}

Comments (12)

  • 16 years ago
    last modified: 10 years ago

    Have you tried teaching him to "speak"? If he understand that, then you can make a big deal of
    "Have to go out, speak" Speak!
    In the mean time I would just keep a better eye on him and make a big deal of "Have to go out?"

  • 16 years ago
    last modified: 10 years ago

    I adopted an adult beagle who was house trained....at someone else's house, not mine! I think some dogs really do get confused when they are in a new environment. It took quite awhile, but she finally got it. It REALLY helps if you catch them in the act. When I would catch Daisy, I'd just start yelling "OUTSIDE! OUTSIDE! OUTSIDE!" Not in a mean voice, just loud. I'd pick her up saying "OUTSIDE!" the whole way to the yard. Then I'd wait until she finally did her business in the yard and praised like crazy. One day it finally clicked for her, and she hasn't gone inside since.

    I realize you can't pick Ronin up, but if you can at least catch him and use the OUTSIDE! command, or I guess KENNEL! in your case, and get him out there somehow, it will help. Of course this requires watching him like a hawk. Tether him to you, or keep him in whatever room you are in and close the door so he can't sneak off to poop.

    Another thing to try is to walk him about 10 minutes after he eats. Walking gets their guts moving, and usually they will have to poop within 10 minutes of the start of the walk. (total of 20 minutes or less after eating.)

    BTW, he is a beautiful dog. Thank you for adopting him!

  • 16 years ago
    last modified: 10 years ago

    Okay, good information. And Kudos to you for adopting and what a regal dog !!! My first concern would be a physical problem and the vet NEEDS to check out your dogs back and back end to make certain there is nothing wrong physically. Nerve problems in the back can make it so your dog has NO IDEA of when it is time to go.
    You wrote: "~ We never yell or hit him when he has an accident. We just show him and tell him, "NO . . . bad dog! Kennel!" Pick up the poop and take it and him to the kennel where we put it down and say, "Kennel . . . good dog, kennel" We then meticulously clean the rug using a good quality dog accident cleaner & deodorizer. " This connect negativity with bathroom works and you should really stop doing it. THIS "Ronin has an accident perhaps once or twice a week, although never peeing. All the other times, we/I just take him out to the kennel and lock him in until he goes, when we let him right back in, praising him, "Good dog, kennel!"." Is also not a good idea. Next I would call the foster person and ask if they had the same problem. If all that turns out to be normal and this is a new behavioral problem I suggest a couple of things - First you have had the dog 3 weeks and he is going through a period of transition - so you are bound to have something come up. You wrote that he is okay with other dogs and people and he gets kennelled on a rgular basis. All okay *BUT* you have failed to write ANYTHING about his daily walking routine!!! This dog should be taken out on a leash walk at least 3 times a day. For at least 15 minutes a day. NO LESS. Im not tqlaking just a quickie around the block where the dog sniffs a couple of bushes. Im talking find a good fire road or an area where your dog can really get in a good pant. DONT let him stop and sniff the bushes or rocks or anything else JUST a good walk at a good clip. Just when you are heading back to the car - let your dog stop and sniff the bushes. Hopefully the regualr walks will help alot - they usually do. Be careful not to go to the same place for his walks. I suspect your new charge is bored, and not stimulated enough. But that is just based on what you wrote....When your dog does do its duty. It is important to first give your dog a command to poop - it should be unemotional. Just a fact - go make a meadow muffin....when the dog does, praise him highly. As if he has just brought you a bag with a thousand dollars in it. If your dog likes privacy (mine does) just make certain you bring a longer leash so he can hide behind a bush or tree for his duties.
    Another part of the training is to take his present and take it outside to a place where you will walk your dog daily. Be certain to stop and let him sniff his stuff, give the unemotional command and praise him....good luck - let us know how it goes.

  • 16 years ago
    last modified: 10 years ago

    What is the base of the kennel/run? Is it rock, dirt or sod? I ask because I'm wondering if he just doesn't like what's on the ground. I've owned dogs that wouldn't go anywhere but on grass so it could be that Ronin is used to a certain surface.

    Does he go out the dog door and into the kennel once you open the garage door? If he's doing that then it may just be a matter of you learning his signs. I've adopted several adult dogs over the years and each had their own way of letting me know when they needed to go.
    My current dog lets me know when he needs to go out by pacing or he'll come up to me and touch me with his nose. Often the signs are very subtle so you just need to recognize Ronin's. In time he'll probably learn from your other dog to bark or will just choose to go out when the other dog does.

    I'd suggest not scolding him anymore when you find an accident but do pick it up and take it out to the kennel........along with Ronin. He probably just needs some repetitive training so that he gets into a routine so continue to offer treats and lots of praise when he does his business.

    Just remember that he's been thru several changes recently and some dogs take longer than others to adjust.
    He's smart.........he'll eventually grasp what the rules are!

  • 16 years ago
    last modified: 10 years ago

    Many thanks for all your great suggestions! I'm reading and remembering them all and will try them all, too!


    Annz asked what the "floor" of the kennel is made of; it's 1-2" gravel and we do think he's not used to this. But, grass is not an option out there, so he needs to get used to it.

    I'm glad to hear that Ronin is not the only dog that doesn't like an audience when he does his business. I'd NEVER heard of that before but, we do respect his preferences.

    I do have to tell you that we don't usually lock any of our dogs out in the kennel. They come and go as they please. But Ronin would prefer to come quickly back in and poop in the garage, so we lock him in the kennel just for those 5 minutes he needs to poop. Once he can be trusted to use only the kennel, we'll allow him to come back in when he's done, too.

    I'll get in touch the doberman rescue gal and ask her to call both the foster family and his original family and see if she can get more info.

    As for having the vet check out his hips and back legs, what a good idea, Mazer! He's actually had two fairly complete physicals in the past three weeks we've had him by two different vets: (1)the vet at Animal Humane when we adopted him. I was there and he said Ronin was in great shape with no hip dysplasia; (2) The other was just yesterday morning at our own vet's when he got his Bordetella and our vet checked him out again for me.
    That said, I didn't ask either about this pooping problem. I'll wait to hear back from his previous families and then call our vet. Thanks for that suggestion. Having worked in the medical field myself for many years, I'm familiar with the numerous problems that spinal abnormalities can cause in humans (bowel, urinary, dropped foot, pain, numbness, etc), but never considered this with Ronin.

    Am off to email the doberman rescue person I'm working with. I'll let you all know what I find out. Again, thanks for taking the time to give me your suggestions They're much appreciated!
    Lynn

  • 16 years ago
    last modified: 10 years ago

    A couple more things, potty training an older dog, isn't much different than potty training a younger dog.

    Some dogs may never "tell" you when they have to go outside... So for those quiet dogs waiting at the door, you need to get them on a schedule.

    When I am potty training a dog, I have a rule of thumb, if I have to go, then dog probably has to go. Every time that I go to the bathroom, I take the dog out immediately afterwards.

    I also use a key word. I use "potty", some people use "business" or whatever. Whenever the dog goes potty, I say the word potty. Eventually he will learn, when we go outside, and I say "potty"; the dog knows what he is expected to do while we are out there. The word potty is always a joyous happy occasion.

  • 16 years ago
    last modified: 10 years ago

    I've never had a puppy, I adopt dogs that are usually 8 mos to 1.5 years old, and usually no one knows their background. 2 of them came from pounds where they did their potty in their cage, so I had to retrain them to potty outside.

    My current dogs, one runs at the door when he needs to go out, and the other had NEVER given me any sign she has to go out. That was really hard at first ... but we established a regular schedule and regular walks, and we've neen fine ever since. I can relate, as I was pulling my hair out, she was peeing and pooping in the house ... it took over a month to get into a schedule ... now I wish my old guy was a regular as she is ...

  • 16 years ago
    last modified: 10 years ago

    We do a lot of fostering for two rescue groups, so we also do a lot of housetraining of adult dogs. We have had excellent results with methods very similar to what weed30 described above. The first thing your dog has to understand is where it is and is not OK to poop. We have a large, glassed-in sunroom that proves confusing to some dogs because it seems a lot like being outside.

    Ronin's relief provided by pooping on your rug has reinforced the behavior, and so right now, pooping there is a good thing for him. You have to make pooping there not reinforcing and pooping in a more appropriate space reinforcing instead.

    We have learned that we have to be very, very vigilant. If you miss the act of pooping, it does no good to tell him about it at all. In fact, it can make things worse. He may try to be even sneakier about it, because he learns that the poop on the floor makes you mad, but he doesn't learn that it's his own act of pooping that is the problem. You absolutely have to catch him in the act.

    Once you catch him in the act a time or two and let him know that it's not OK, he'll catch on. But you have to be very consistent. Since you're at home with him most of the time, make certain that he is always in the same room as you. Keep an eye on him constantly. It shouldn't take more than a week or two if you are truly vigilant. Being that observant, you'll probably also start to notice what signs he gives. One of ours is so subtle about telling us she needs to go out that she just looks at us until we look at her and then she glances in the direction of the door. If we miss this little glance, we're in trouble.

    Good luck and congrats on finding such a great dog!

  • 16 years ago
    last modified: 10 years ago

    We adopted an 8 year old dog. She never really became fully housetrained. She always had an accident or two a month. She never barked to go out.... but she did give us "the look"... it was a little worried looking and then she would just go sit in front of the door. We had to be hyper-vigilant - is she was not in the room with us "where's the dog"? we let her out quick. Be aware of "looks" like someone above said.

    Also, you can't let them out too often. At first, she was every hour and a half. And crated when we were not home. Feed them at the same time daily.

  • 16 years ago
    last modified: 10 years ago

    Your situation is in need of simply creating the habit of the dog going out when he needs to go. Crate him or otherwise contain him where he is unlikely to go. Generally this is done at night. By crating him you are usually insuring that he won't go in the house. Now on your schedule, not his, you take him out and give him about 5 minutes to go. If he doesn't go you take him back in and put him in the crate. Wait 10-15 minutes and repeat. Usually by the second trip out he will go. You can instill a command into the process by repeating your chosen word(s)as you are waiting for him to go. As soon as he goes then you praise and he can return to the house and have freedom for a given amount of time then repeat the process. With most adult dogs they will pick it up in two or three days.
    Doing anything to him after he has soiled in the house is just waisting your time. It doen't teach them anything.
    He could be using the carpet as a "potty pad" which may have been used by his previous owners since he was indoors all the time.
    In short you need to develop the dogs habit of going where you want him to and to accomplish that you need to control the situation thus the use of the crate. Now to get him to ask to go you can take him from the crate to the door and creat excitement at the door to get him to bark or whine and then let him out. Most of all you need to be very attentive of his actions while he is being taught this. Every dog gives some type of indication befor it goes and if you can intercept that then you can naturally direct him to the kennel.
    Also you may need to realize that he may see the kennel as an extention of the house and feel uncomfortable going there because of that. You may try using the yard with him on a leash in the training process instead of the kennel. Then when he has mastered the process and is telling you when he needs to go you can move to the kennel.

  • 16 years ago
    last modified: 10 years ago

    I use the grass4upetpatch and they use it inside instead of dog pee pads

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