Generally unless something else is specified in the contract a house in my area just needs to be broom clean - so it sounds like that is what you did.

You have no obligation to these people. They accepted and signed the papers. Only if you lied about something such as omitting something that should have been disclosed would you have a real issue. Doesn't mean these people won't try though.

I think your real estate agent needs to have a chat with theirs and tell that agent to explain what the customs are in your area and that they have no valid claim. I would under no circumstances have any contact with them. Just go through the agents. Also let yours know that beyond giving them what you promised you are done.

Instruction manuals for the mechanical stuff and appliances, sure, if you still have them. Receipts? No way. Unless you redact personal info and pricing, then maybe.

I was originally intending to leave a nice detailed letter in our home on the morning of close, with all kinds of info on how to operate stuff, when to change the furnace filters, what the landscaping requires, etc etc etc. But the buyers have turned out to be young, entitled prima donnas, soooo....I ain't gonna spoon-feed 'em. ;-P

They closed on the house and unless you willfully concealed a major material defect, (which you didn't) --they approved of conditions by signing off on the documents at closing, didn't they?

It's always been my impression that any buyers' concerns about issues found during a house inspection, or during a walk-through prior to closing were handled before the closing. The house, along with any problems either not brought up before the closing, or discovered by the buyers after the closing become theirs, because it's their house now. Unless, of course, there is evidence that the sellers knew about problems and didn't disclose them before the closing to the buyers. Mpagmom, it just sounds like your buyers are being picky PIA's and are making demands on you that are totally out of line.

We left all available receipts, warranty information, owner's manuals and copies of applicable construction plans (house rebuilt and updated in 1993 following Hurricane Andrew) with our real estate agent to hand over to the buyers at closing.

As for cleaning, when we had everything moved out we hired a "move-out" cleaning company who in my opinion did a superb job of cleaning- they dusted woodwork, baseboards, ceiling fans, shelving mopped floors, washed windows, cleaned our cabinets, appliances,vacuumed ( would have cleaned carpets had we wanted them to). They left the place spotless- except for the carpets which the buyers were planning to replace anyway. I don't know if all that would have been required but I wanted to leave the house as clean as I could- just a matter of pride, I guess.

They should have taken care of this before closing on the house. It is their problem now. If you have any manuals for appliances you can send them over. But that is it. I would not respond to them any more. Let you agent know you are done. They are not to contact you anymore about the house. It is theirs' now. They can deal with any problems(real or imagined)that pop up. How do you know they didn't break something and are now claiming it was broken before they bought the house. Nope, I wouldn't respond at all. You are asking for trouble. NancyLouise

Thanks for all the input so far. I left all the manuals that I had in the house - appliances, ceiling fans, garage door opener, and a few other things. We didn't get much info from the previous owners, but I left anything from them. I also left extra tiles, grout, and paint that they may need in the future.

My agent talked to their agent this afternoon and got more info. The buyers have also contacted their inspector with their grievances. They seem to think there were major issues with the house that we failed to disclose and the inspector failed to find. By the way, we had sold the house previously (the sale fell through due to job loss) and a different inspector found no issues either.

I still haven't gotten their letter, which was sent by certified mail (is that supposed to scare me?), and my agent is going to email me a copy of her letter.

Ignore it all. It doesn't matter unless you left something off, on purpose, of the seller's disclosure. And, they had an inspection. So, I think you are good. They sound cheap.

They are certainly cheap. Before we closed they wanted to know if we had a copy of the survey from our loan so they wouldn't have to pay for one.

I got the letter from my agent, and they are asking us for:

$500 for cleaning the "rather disgusting" home.

$1250 to repaint: "The condition of the walls in almost all of the rooms was dissatisfactory (yeah, I know that's not a word). Marks, scratches, sloppy painting, dried mucus (3 areas), nails and holes from previous fasteners were present." Note: the house was empty when they went through it (no hanging pictures), and we did have someone touch up the paint before it went on the market.

$215 for professional pest control contractor for the 9 live cockroaches they found. We live in a midwest suburb and I have never heard of anyone having cockroaches. They either came from the moving company or their belongings IF they are there.

$25 for lint in the dryer vent hose.

A yet-to-be-determined amount for remediation of the HVAC system. "The system is only able to cool .0269 degrees per minute which puts this system in the 4th percentile for cooling efficiency."

There were lots more gems, but those are the ones concerning money.

It's too bad that they have your new address. Let's hope they don't have your email and your new phone# too.

Ignore them. They are high maintenance and they will be high maintenance as long as you allow it.

Tell your realtor you do not want to hear any more complaints, questions or commentst that are coming from them.

Don't reply to them, don't acknowledge them in any way. Don't reply to the agent's messages to you about their issues.

The only time to reply is if you are sued. then you get an attorney and they speak on your behalf.

These folks aren't going to sue because you don't sue for dirty toilets. they probably have a breaker that needs to be reset for the water heater and AC.

They are nuts and they will make you nuts unless you remove them from the equation.

What if you sold the house and move abroad, what would they do?

Ignore them, otherwise they could find more to complain from your responses. You are done with them.

Tell your agent since he/she accepted the letter, it is her/his responsiblity to pay for the demand.

I really want to know exactly how they determined those three areas were, in fact, dried mucus.

To clarify, nobody accepted the letter. My agent received a copy of a letter that was supposedly sent to us via certified mail. It's been 4 days and we haven't received it, although we live about a mile away. They made it sound all legal-like that we have 10 business days to respond.

They did state that "the Residential Property Disclosure Form accompanying the property did not accurately depict the condition of the property" so I wouldn't put it past them to sue us. That doesn't concern me a bit. I have a video of the condition of the house before closing and it passed two inspections. It's a really nice house in excellent condition, and the video shows that clearly.

eosinophil, you made me laugh! The woman is a doctor so she probably sent it to a lab. Now that she has my son's DNA anything is possible!

hey mpag, ask Dr. Malcontent if she's going to make some wine out of all her sour grapes
:-)

Aren't they trying to handle these things a little out of order? I would have thought all of those items should have shown up on a response to inspection form, BEFORE closing, if they were of concern. That would have been the time to ask for an adjustment in final price to cover repairs/cleaning (which you could have refused to fund) if they felt it was necessary for them to complete the purchase. If they've closed, you're done...other than being offended, that is :)

You didn't adopt them, you sold them a house. Don't respond.

Everything you mentioned would have been discovered when they looked at the house, did their inspection or had their final walk thru. There are no surprises here. They saw it and chose to close. Its a done deal. Pay no attention to them, hope the go away. They have no claim.

In their defense, they lived out of town. They came in for a week and looked at a lot of houses. Ours was one of three that they looked at a second time. They relied on their agent and inspector for the rest. I don't know that their agent did a walk-through before closing, but I'm sure she would have thought it was fine. The buyers didn't return to town until a week after closing. That said, the condition of the house was essentially the same as when they looked at it 5 weeks earlier. With nobody living there it did not get any dirtier.

I know they have no claim, but I'm curious if others pay for cleaning services, give detailed instructions about the systems or landscaping, etc. I once paid for a cleaning service, but those buyers paid higher than our asking price and never gave us a bit of trouble. It was a while ago, but it was less than $200 and I don't think the house cleaners scrubbed all the walls. I'm sure in my previous house I left more manuals because I built the house and had them.

I'm impressed with your foresight to video the condition. A lesson, perhaps, for anyone who has a difficult buyer.
Good luck!

Most contracts state the house should be broom cleaned. Our final walk thrus here are done within 24 hours of the closing. Was the buyer not there for that? No way would I do a final walk thru for a buyer, that is just too much liability. Honestly it sounds like they are looking for cash. If they were that worried about these things, they would have made arrangements to be there for a final walk thru. The final walk thru is just that, FINAL.

As an agent I can tell you some sellers give the house a good cleaning, some broom clean but rarely does anyone pay for a service to clean after closing. If anything, buyers sometimes have a cleaning crew come in to clean after closing before they move in.

If sellers have appliance Manuel's they leave those, if the buyers and sellers have gotten along, they will sometimes go over the house systems and pool or landscaping features but it is not ordinary. They should have been at their home inspection, the inspector is the one that goes over the systems with them.

How about finding or collecting every receipt you can get your hands on and stuffing them into boxes and give it to them. From a dozen Apples to the Zebra you purchased from the zoo in the 70's. Go down to the local Wal-Mart and ask for all the receipts people ask the clerk to chuck into the wastepaper baskets.

Or just ignore them.

Thanks for your input, Linda. That all makes sense.

I wonder if final walk throughs are not common here - I don't remember doing one with my other two house sales in this area. In fact, contracts often state that occupancy is a few days after closing to give the sellers time to close on their new house and move into it. I'm sure you'll all think that's nuts, but we're like that around here.

I highly recommend a video walk-through before closing. I was afraid a pipe would burst or someone would break in before the buyers got to town. I even showed that all the doors were locked.

Sorry, they sound like spoiled entitled little children. I would ignore them.

I'd say stick a fork in those people. They are definitely done!

Maybe walkthroughs aren't customary everywhere, but they seem to be in our area ( this was southeast Florida). These have been done in houses that we bought/sold over the years a day or two before the closing, the buyers with their agent, and in the house we sold recently, our realtor was there as well. I thought it was just basically to make sure that everything that had been agreed to in the contract was there or taken care of. It's not an extensive inspection of the property ( that having been done during the inspections), but just a relatively quick tour of the house. And it's once, not as many times as the buyers think they'll take another looksee before the closing.

We had buyers who thought they'd maybe try and get into the house any number of times to come up with a new list of demands before the closing- basically to knock as much off the selling price as possible, I think. These buyers were a young woman who already lived in the area and her mother, who was moving to the area from out of town. The mother wasn't around till a few days before the closing, depending on her daughter ( who took a zillion pictures and videos for her mother to see) and their realtor to handle the inspections, and details of the contract. I think there was a little mother-daughter conflict going on there as it looked like the mother wasn't entirely sure her daughter wouldn't miss something or settle for something she shouldn't. That played itself out in the mother trying to insist on several more visits to the house after the walkthrough so she could list items that in her opinion we needed to pay for ( deduct from the price) at the closing. Fortunately both our realtor and the buyers put the kabosh on that idea,reminding her that we had fixed items listed on the inspections reports, and this was, after all, an "as is" sale, and those additional walkthroughs and list didn't happen.

We weren't at the closing, since it was delayed by several days after that walkthrough due to their mortgage broker, and we had a family emergency out of town to attend to, but our realtor told her the buyers were very happy at closing.

. But seriously, what are reasonable expectations for cleanliness and documentation when purchasing a home?

Documentation ... whatever you have.

BTW, they can find user manuals for almost any appliance in a Google search. Just search for "user manual" and the brand and model. Usually FREE downloads, too.

I did call the seller of our house a couple of times about details that only someone who had lived there a while could know. The location of the furnace filter was a total mystery, and a light switch had no obvious function ... little stuff like that.

You might have to get firm with them: Tell them that the time for asking for financial adjustments and detailed information is over. They bought it, it's theirs.

Wouldn't your agent handle this? I may have missed this, but did anybody do a walk through, e.g. their agent or inspector? Who was at the closing on their behalf?

The buyers signed the closing documents in a different city. Nobody did a walk-through, but if they had done a walk-through they would have thought it was fine. The "filth" the buyers complained about was mostly inside heating ducts, the dryer vent, and pipes. The house was as clean as when they looked at it because nobody lived there. We had the carpets cleaned, hired a painter to touch up paint, and scrubbed everything before putting it on the market. I even pulled the gunk out of most of the drains, but I guess I missed a seldom-used tub.

I once moved into a house and found all kinds of things in the heating ducts - dog biscuits, happy meal toys, and a 2-liter bottle. I'm so glad I didn't look in the drains.

I've always paid a cleaning crew (or myself!) to completely clean any house we have purchased, even if the sellers left it "clean".

We did have one set of buyers that called us for a while. That house had a rarely seen computer interface for running the hvac and security system ... ahead of its time for 1990. I got the manufacturer to send me a manual and figured it out myself. The new buyers kept calling with questions. I made a few house calls to teach them and gradually took longer and longer to return their calls.

Our first house was broom clean when we moved in. My mother was first on site the day we moved in, and found the 72-year-old seller scrubbing the oven.

My mother told her, "You can stop now. It won't kill my daughter to clean an oven."

On the other hand, the house across the street was sold during the winter. I don't think the buyers did a walk-through the morning of closing, they just expected the sellers would take all their own stuff and throw out their own trash. You know what they say about assuming. Not only was the house clutter with junk (broken tv stands, broken toys, etc,) once the snow started to melt, all the broken junk outside came into view.

The "filth" the buyers complained about was mostly inside heating ducts, the dryer vent, and pipes.

They should have bought the house we did ... surface clean, BUT a dead mouse in the dryer vent, Pekinese-sized hair clumps clogging the bathtub, washer caked with excess fabric softener, etc. If it wasn't visible, they didn't clean it.

Well, there was nothing like that! They provided pictures, so I know exactly what the condition was - a few crumbs in the vents and a little hairball in one drain. I cleaned out most of the drains before it went on the market, but I guess I missed a seldom-used tub. I cleaned out the driyer vent periodically, but not right before closing.

Do most people really clean out all their HVAC vents before closing? Maybe I'm just a slob.

Anyway, I looked at the contract again, and it just says the house has to be in the same condition as when the contract was signed subject to ordinary wear and tear. It also says the purchaser has examined the property, is purchasing it "as is," and has the right to a walk-through before closing.

I don't think we cleaned our AC vents. We did change the filter though, LOL.

As some of the other folks have said, we left that house in a lot better condition than when we found it when we bought it in 1985!

The only thing in that house that I would have said was gross was some of the carpets. That and we had an addition with the strangest floor ever- it was Eurotile on a floor that wasn't the levelest one there ever was ( the addition had been a DIY project by one of the former owners, rank amateur judging by the results. We had everything fixed and up to code during our post-hurricane Andrew rebuilding, but didn't get the floor entirely level. And it's a long story involving contractors unable to get subs after they wouldn't pay them, a mother who turned up her nose at carpeting in the in-law apartment she would be living in as to why the Eurotile, but there it was. We informed our realtor that we were willing to offer a carpeting and flooring allowance of approximately $3000 to a buyer, fully expecting to have to negotiate more, possibly as it was a big house and that was a lot of floor. We figured that made more sense than replacing the carpets ourselves when we had no way of knowing a buyer's preference. Our realtor agreed.

But, while I knew this was a highly desirable area and houses in the neighborhood had always sold quickly, I was flabbergasted when we got three offers on the first day the house was shown. One of those offers was for the asking price, which we accepted and those buyers' realtor commented to us later on that the minute they'd walked into the house, both she and the buyer commented that they felt like this "was their house". So they really wanted it, offered the asking price and there was no more mention of a carpet allowance. Have to say though, that other than updating to the buyers' preferences, that house was in great shape and looked good. The roof was one year old with a warranty, the AC was three years old, the fridge and dishwasher were new ( having died a few months before, lucky us). We had pressure cleaned, fixed cracks and painted the patio and pool area, painted many of the rooms, replaced faucets, some new lighting and made sure everything worked. So it looked good, especially for a 55 yr old house.

Your buyers are ridiculous.

When we purchased our condo, my partner took on the grisly task of cleaning the previous owner's master bathroom toilet and in her words, "Let's just say he wasn't careful in his aim." Yuck! But, that's what cleaning supplies and the joy of home ownership are about. Really, just don't engage these people any further, they're absurd.

Your buyers are crazy. I bought a property recently, which was in terrible shape. The bathroom ceiling had sticky goo (shampoo)?) and black hairs all over. That was gross. After days of scrubbing and gallons of bleach, the tub, toilet, tiles and sink actually looked white again. It was actually satisfying to see the "new" bathroom appear from under all that grime.

I realize different people have different standards for cleanliness. If my sister had bought the house, she would have thought it was super-clean. If my mother-in-law had bought the house, she would have thought it was less than immaculate. The difference between the buyers and my mother-in-law is that my mother-in-law knows she's a neat-freak and would have cleaned it to her standards without bothering anyone. Honestly, I have four kids. They should have seen what the house looked like before I scrubbed it all.

I had some interesting correspondence with the man who inspected the house. They sent him a letter demanding $4000 for various items, but they never even paid him for the inspection!

Their agent's comment: "In retrospect, they should have purchased new construction. But even then they wouldn't have been happy."

Sounds like you're not the only person they're having a problem with. In a way one has to feel sorry for them because they don't seem like the kind of people who're ever happy.

Nosoccermom, you're exactly right. They are unhappy with both agents, the seller, the inspector - EVERYONE.

Against my better judgment I wrote them a very nice letter with many details about the house and landscaping. It should answer most of their concerns and help them realize that some things they thought are broken are working as intended. For example, they complained that the water feature didn't hold water. I'm guessing they thought it was supposed to be a small pond (although they saw it running when they looked at the house), but it's a pondless waterfall designed not to hold water so it's safe around children.

Mpagmom, if you keep corresponding with them they will never go away. Do not write, email, call or send smoke signals to them! It is their house now. Let them deal with their imaginary problems. Stop now. NancyLouise

Nancylouise, I appreciate what you are saying, and this is my one and only post-sale correspondence. I gave them some info I said I would send a while back, but I never did because I got sick. I ended the letter by saying it was all I knew about the house.

Wow. When we bought this house we were happy to see a folder of assorted manuals on the counter. Some were old appliances and not relevant, but most of the current stuff was there. Plus, thankfully, the book for the alarm system with the codes.

As we had literally nothing but clothes and misc stuff to move (both of us moving from home), I just assumed we'd need to clean the house and stopped at Walmart for an assortment of dirt eradication gear (didnt even have a broom to bring). Even if it -looked- clean, it seemed icky to just move in.

The only thing I considered contacting the sellers for was when we found some old pics way back in the corner of a top closet shelf. But it was a few years before we found that flat envelop hiding.

Hopefully that will work for you and you haven't opened a door (rather floodgate) and these people will leave you alone now...

It did remind me I called the former owner of our house in a different state on a Friday night several weeks ago...

First sunny day of the year with some warmth in my coastal climate and when I went in to get ready for bed there was a terrible noise in the master and bath. Almost like someone had started a gas leaf blower over the bed, I could feel a vibration with my hand on the wall. This wasn't a buzz, but a roar....

Several minutes and a panicked search of the house where I'd even checked the workings to the Jacuzzi tub hidden behind an access point in a closet, DH went up into two of three attic crawl spaces (we didn't know there was a third separated by a fire wall over the master which was a later addition), I called the previous owner - who is a friend I do expect to see socially occasionally still. She laughed and said yes, there is a fan in the attic over the master that is on a thermostat, but with a manual switch hidden inside one of 4 master closets. I hadn't found it, but there would have been no going to bed that night, no sleeping possible with it running.

I still need to get that fixed, something clearly not right with the fan :) 6 months after house purchase, I won't ask her to fund it.

We moved into our current home 14 years ago. The neighbors who lived next door moved out 2 years after we had moved in. After they moved, she called me about once a month during the non-winter months to "remind" me to water the magnolia tree in our back yard since she and her husband had paid for it. The tree was in our yard, inside our fence.

Apparently, the couple we purchased our home from had a tree that their neighbors didn't like- the debris that the tree left in their yard- so the neighbors agreed to purchase a new tree for the previous owners if they would have the "dirty" tree removed. I swear that woman called me for 5+ years!!

This post was edited by babswhyit on Mon, Jul 8, 13 at 1:49

We are a buyer that doesn't go away after closing, but it's all good in our case!

The previous owner lost the house due to the gambling debts of her ex husband. She is now married to the owner of the best nursery in town, and she knows what we deal with on our 1.5 acres. She loves when we come in to chat and buy! We get smiles and hugs when we walk in, and she always says, "I love you bought my house! It's a special place. I'm glad you are in it to live there, not to flip it!

She did leave appliance owners manuals, and she didn't understand the irrigation clock herself, so we hired someone to figure that all out.

We replaced all appliances, so no owners manuals would have helped, but they will help when they go with her appliances that we sell on CL.

Suzi

We sold our house six years ago and we don't have a problem with the buyers but the neighbor. She keeps calling me and sending emails about how the new owners are killing all the landscaping and trees - even asking me to do something!

I've told her repeatedly that I can't do anything but she says she just wants me to call them and give them some "tips" on how to care for the property. Not gonna go there.

The best thing we got at closing (along with all the manuals and service dates, all meticulous) was the sprinkler & wiring diagram! You can find manuals for everything on the internet, but only one way to get a hand-drawn map of all the sprinkler lines and sprinkler heads, valves and wires. It was wonderful when we re-landscaped the yards.

Kellyeng, that's so funny that the neighbors would think you could do something about the landscaping!

C9pilot, I agree that the sprinkler system map is a great thing to leave. When we sold a house we built we left a copy of the house plans.

To give you an update, I haven't heard from the new owners in over two weeks, so I'm hoping I won't. I did talk to the man who did the inspection on their house, and they wrote him a letter asking for $4000 for repairs of things he didn't catch. I can't even imagine what they're talking about. The funniest (or saddest) part is that they never paid him for the inspection. The inspector said it's the most troubling thing that's ever happened in his 18 years of inspections.

Well, I wouldn't be surprised if your old neighbors start contacting you too at one point in the future :)

Inspectors here won't even start the inspection without a payment check.
Too many people refuse to pay if they aren't happy with the outcome. Guess this inspector will have learned that lesson now.

"The funniest (or saddest) part is that they never paid him for the inspection. The inspector said it's the most troubling thing that's ever happened in his 18 years of inspections."

These buyers seem to be troublesome to everyone they become involved with. Silly of the inspector to not insist on payment at the time of service.

Were you friends with any of the neighbors you left behind?

I'd sure want to know if the nice folks who used to live next to me were kind enough to give me a heads up about the storm cloud that just moved into the neighborhood!

The buyers lived out of town and were not at the inspection. They may have told him they sent a check - I have no idea. I'm sure he normally collects payment at the time of inspection.

We talked to one neighbor shortly before closing, and he has an idea of what to expect. He wants to move anyway, in part because our old neighborhood isn't very neighborly - my husband was the only one who was friendly.