The upper third of your poplar sample stills looks pinkish to me. So maybe the Sunbleached has some pink.

I am surprised you'd consider maple. Totally different look. The sample in FW article is an expensive piece of beautiful curly maple woodworkers love to use. Cabinet maple will not look like this. It can have almost no visible wood grain. I thought you really wanted to see wood grain and therefore wanted transparent stain?

I still think transparent dye is your best bet, and you can neutralize the pink in red oak with a little green.

But when looking to save money, it always makes sense to try something that's cheap, easy, and readily available, and that's the iron buff. Steel wool soaked in vinegar for one day, diluted to be lighter than samples shown in that article.

Here's iron buff on red oak. Your look is lighter and more yellow. So iron buff diluted to be lighter, warmed up a little with Watco or Minwax poly topcoat, could be perfect:

If you have a Woodcraft store nearby you might consider stopping in with a picture and/or sample and asking for advice. I was there last night for products for a refinishing project. They are an excellent resource for DIY. They even have finishing classes.

Never mind the iron buff. I found a pic of an entire red oak floor treated with iron buff. Definitely gray, but every possible value of gray from very light to charcoal, almost ebony. Different boards have different tannin levels reacting with the iron buff. Maybe these differences could be reduced by apply a tannin solution first, but that's more work and still unpredictable. Dye seems like the way to go.

I did go ahead any mix up some iron buff which is percolating right now, since I already have vinegar and steel wool, and I hate real steel wool so don't plan to use it for anything else. But I'm going to order the black dye.

Here is a link that might be useful: Red oak floor with iron buff. See what they mean by

OK, I am getting really promising results from ferrous sulphate on scrap maple. I used crushed iron supplements from the drug store. I do LOVE how it colours the wood without obscuring the grain. I am definitely thinking that some chemical process like this must have been used for my inspiration photo.

Here's what I don't understand - won't a topcoat (varnish/laquer/or ??) completely darken and yellow the effect?

This post was edited by feisty68 on Thu, Oct 16, 14 at 20:42

No stain advice but your River White is beautiful.

Thank you Romy. I love how it looks. The failing sealant is another thread though.

So I LOVE the maple treated with ferrous sulphate. So does my husband.

But, when I finished it with Varathane Diamond Wood Finish - Interior (Water, Satin), the colour went darker and browner, as expected :( . I suspect any polyurethane-type finish would do the same.

Any durable topcoat options that would preserve the lightness and silvery-ness?

Here is the look that I love (circled) but it's unfinished:

"Ambering describes how much orange is added with a finish. Wetting describes how much a finish darkens a surface."

In my case I want minimal ambering or wetting. Lacquer would appear to be the best durable option for that?

Here is a link that might be useful: lots of info at this joystick site of all things

Hey, lady! I wish I had some input on your actual questions, but I thought I would pop in and ask if you had any updates in another thread somewhere. I have been absent but thinking of you and your project.

BUT. Could you do a beeswax coating to finish your cabs? Or something similar?

The finish you posted originally looks like a cerused finish. Have you looked into it? I have seen some great tutorials online. Usually done to oak (or another porous wood).
Lmk if you can't find and I will look for it :)

Didn't have time to read through the entire tread to understand the evloution here but from what I did see what we are talking about is a "chemical reactive stain." Yes, ferrous sulfate is one of them and probably the most well know although what you are creating with the iron and vinegar is actually its close cousin ferrous acetate but it does have a simaular effect. Also it would be easier to achieve this with a pad of 0000 steel wool and white vinegar than the iron scraps. That said you are treading in waters that are unchartered by most. You can stumble on a pretty neat effect but to understand the complexity of this I can tell you after hundreds of hours experimenting which dozens of chemical combinations is still something that you never feel you have complete control over. There are so many variables at play from species of wood, to the amount of tannins present, strength of your solution, combination of chemicals, sequence of steps and of course the finish which will alter everything you've done. I do know this the really great finishes are far from a one shot deal. There are many steps involved. I'm talking about the natural organic approach. A lot of people will go the faux route using the watered down paint and stains especially in production. If done well this can look ok too.
John

To summarize for those picking up this super-long thread - I am very ignorant about wood and finishing and this thread has been quite the education. At this point I am letting go of achieving exactly the look of my inspiration photo but committed to solid wood slab fronts that are light grey with the wood showing.

Greenhaven - my reno has been stalled for months due to my husband's sudden and ongoing health problems. But we want to move forward and the cabinet fronts are the top priority right now. Thank you for asking :) .

Ourdreamhome, I have looked at cerused finishes and I am aware of the process. It's a stunning look but at this point I am more attracted to the transparent beauty of the ferrous sulphate treatment.

John/jdesign, I did not use iron/vinegar (AKA iron buff AKA ferrous acetate). I used ferrous sulphate and I think it should be quite a reproducible effect (with the same species of wood) because you can mix exact quantities of the chemical with water. My ferrous sulphate sample looks very much like photos I've seen on the internet.

Now I'm wondering if I start with bleaching, then use the ferrous sulphate, then do a topcoat - would the initial bleaching compensate for the ambering and wetting caused by the topcoat to create a final colour that I will be happy with?

I would still make one attempt at paint thinned with a glaze (not water).

Marcolo, I am starting to understand the logic of that! It would allow me more control as described in the link below:

"Glazing is a highly controllable way of floating color in between layers of a finish. When you stain, the wood absorbs the stain, and that has a profound impact on how much color gets taken in and where it lodges, but with glaze you have almost complete control over where the color goes and how much stays on. That is because glaze is applied not to raw wood, but rather atop one or more coats of finish, which prevents the wood from absorbing any of it. In most cases, it is very difficult to reverse stain and start over, but if glazing starts to go wrong, you can simply wipe it off and start again."

Here is a link that might be useful: Glazing: An Easy Way to Add Color to Wood

No you really cannot control the color with any chemical stain because it is a chemical reaction. It is not a dye. Different boards will react differently with the SAME EXACT solution. I have only found a couple finishers who report using these extensively, and they both say that the colors can come out wildly different.

You really need dye for a totally transparent and repeatable color result.

There are two types of colorants for wood. Dyes and pigments. Pigments are large particles, think of powders, that sit on top of the wood. They must be glued on, essentially, with a binder. Dyes, on the other hand, are tiny molecule-size particles that penetrate into the wood and attach to the wood fibers, without a binder. Think of food coloring. Pigments are opaque and will obscure the wood grain to some degree, depending on color used and how thick the pigment layer is applied. Dyes are transparent.

Most wiping stains include pigments. They settle into the bottom of the can and must be stirred back in. Pigment stains are essentially diluted paint.

Glazes are pretty much the same thing. Pigment and binder. Thinned paint. But glazes are intended for a different use, usually to collect in grooves and carvings, or to be manipulated in multi-color faux finishes (like faux wood grain for example), so they include thickeners so that a thick layer can be built up, and extenders so that they can be manipulated for a long time before drying.

Dyes are what will produce a transparent gray. Water-soluble dyes are easy to control and change. Thinned paint, which has been suggested many times on this thread, could also give a similar-enough effect, though it will not reveal the wood grain as clearly as dye. Thinned paint is essentially the same thing as wood wiping stain (pigment, binder, thinner) but available in thousands of colors.

Most any finish will darken the color with the wetting effect. Each step in your finish recipe should account for the others. So mix a lighter color than you want for the stain step. Lacquer is a very clear finish, but it dries too fast to be applied by hand. Lacquer is not DIY, and traditional lacquer is not nearly as durable as polyurethane. I have a very low opinion of those consumer-grade water-based finishes. The finish on my maple island was toast after just a couple years.

Two finishes that are supposed to leave wood looking relatively un-finished looking are Rubio Monocoat and Bona Naturale. Bona would be more durable.

I am coming into this thread late and have not read every single response. If it were me, I would use white oak or something quite light in color and just stain it with a mix of white and gray or glaze it with a watered down mix of ultra light gray paint. We painted our white oak island and did one coat. It is a very light gray green and you can see the wood under it bc it was a light coating. I think if you watered it down or oiled down (if you are using oil based paint) this would be simple enough. Just a thought.

Dyes are what will produce a transparent gray.

See, this is my problem with this whole thread. I don't understand how anybody could look at the original sample pictures and see only a transparent stain. I see translucent, with pigment caught in the grain pores as well as the corners of the five piece doors. I would give glaze a shot.

Now that I've read way. too. much. I'm starting to believe that my inspiration photo was done like this:

- start with wood showing wavy/irregular grain
- bleached
- wire brushed
- dyed
- grain filled with white opaque pigment (limed)
- finished with a matte topcoat of some sort

In other words, I think everyone's right ;) .

Andersons you wrote:
"Most any finish will darken the color with the wetting effect. Each step in your finish recipe should account for the others."

I think the above is key and something that I have been slow to recognize! I am starting to think that bleaching will be a necessity in order to achieve a very light final colour IF I go the dye or oxidizing stain route.

I also need to figure out what kind of grain I should expect from the $8/sf solid slab oak doors (not willing to pay more).

My husband is officially annoyed by this whole process. But...he still wants me to chase this particular unicorn!

This post was edited by feisty68 on Thu, Oct 23, 14 at 13:32

Feisty - Been following your journey for a while. Sorry to hear about hubby's health, hope the best for him and your family. I can't really offer much in the way of advise regarding your attempt to achieve the color you're looking for in whatever manner you end up going with. I did want to, however, my short term experience with a "topcoat" that I read on THIS VERY THREAD above by the fabulour CRFreeman who seems to be a wealth of information. Thanks, CRFreeman for sharing your knowledge!

Recently purchased at a Restoration Hardware outlet a salvaged wood table to use as my office desk. In searching what to "seal" it with while not darkening, looking wet, or changing the color I read a recommendation by CRFreeman above about using Behr Exterior, Dark Base, Matte finish paint WITH NO TINT. I've put two coats on the table and am thrilled with the results. I did check into the Bona Naturale (someone mentioned previously as well), but that sounded a bit more complicated than what I wanted for a simple desk and the cost was very expensive. My little pint can cost me $12. I'm sure some would be opposed to it for use on kitchen cabinets, but it's something I would certainly consider testing before ruling it out. Best of luck on your project!

If it's of any help, below is the "before" of my table I will post another follow up for the after photo.

Here is the after photo of the Restoration Hardware after two coats. As CRFreeman mentions, it goes on milky white (looks a lot like white glue), dries matte clear. Have also used on a piece of walnut for another project and equally pleased with results.

Swtceleb - that looks fantastic! I don't imagine it would be durable enough for a high traffic kitchen but that is such an awesome finish for other projects. I have learned so much! I should try to apply some of this knowledge to some projects that are not as high stakes as this one ;) .

Fiesty - Have you seen these 'reclaimed lumber' doors, at semihandmade. Maybe you could ask them...

{{gwi:1805921}}

Feisty, have you seen this video where a piece of oak was stained and then cerused? He used a darker color stain than you are after, but the process is still the same.

Here is a link that might be useful: DIY: How to Ceruse Wood

feisty68, you do not necessarily need bleach to achieve a light color, at least not on maple. You can mix dye stain as light as you want.

Staining maple is different from staining oak. Maple has very small pores. Oak has large pores and deep grain that collects lots of pigment from a pigment stain. Oak is almost always stained with both dye and pigment.

Two years after your kitchen is done, you won't care whether it's a couple shades lighter or darker, but you WILL care if there are water spots staining the wood and the finish is cracking. This is what happened to my maple island finished with water-base acrylic after 2 or 3 years.

I would be interested to hear how CEFreeman's stuff is holding up, but based on my experience, I would not choose acrylic for a kitchen finish. I can't buy regular poly any more in stores where I live, so I have tried 3 water-base "polyurethane" products, and they were all junk.

I have considered Rubio Monocoat because I like the look and they claim to be durable. But I am skeptical because oil is not a durable finish, and neither is wax. I've done a little research, and Monocoat won't reveal what's really in their finish. Apparently they claim a "reaction" will take place. A catalyst could cause problems with a previously bleached or oxidized surface.

A big part of the natural, unfinished look here is a matte finish. Protective film-forming finishes are naturally shiny. Matte finishes include transparent silica particles which create microscopic roughness on the surface after it cures. Matte can also be achieved by rubbing out fully-cured surfaces with the appropriate abrasive. Using flattener seems easier, theoretically saving a step, but hand-rubbed surfaces both look more beautiful and feel smoother and much higher quality.

Hydrangea - those are beautiful! Not the look we're going for but I love it.

Andersons, good points. From my reading CAB acrylic lacquer is one of the best durable non-yellowing options. Probably not DIY friendly though.

I did an initial bleaching of the oak using Wood Kote Lite N Up. It is looking really good! It lightens and removes the red/pink quite dramatically. I am starting to understand why many start the finishing process with bleaching - it creates a bit more of a clean slate when staining so that you are not fighting with the wood colours. In my case bleaching may make sense to kill the pink and compensate for the darkening effect of the topcoat. I am still liking the idea of oak with its grain pattern.

Andersons wrote:
"A big part of the natural, unfinished look here is a matte finish."

I agree with this and love the look, but... I initially thought that my husband was on board with a matte finish, but it turns out he is not. We may go with a satin finish as a compromise. He has a point. We got some black-stained counter stools that have a matte finish - he doesn't like how kids' greasy fingerprints are quite visible on them. Satin might provide a more forgiving surface in a high traffic kitchen.

I've done two rounds bleaching red oak now. Pretty exciting!

Something I did a while back.

When I post a second picture the first one goes away. Don't know what I'm doing wrong. Anyway here's another one of dozens and dozens of experiments I've done. Also built the maple bench in the picture I posted above and aged it.

feisty68, some more thoughts about finish. First of all, no acrylic lacquer is going to be that durable. It will not be nearly as durable as a wipe-on poly you could apply yourself. Urethane resin has superior abrasion, chemical, and moisture resistance. I have a table with factory-sprayed acrylic lacquer finish, and I already need to refinish it after 1 year of use.

Secondly, acid catalyzed coatings should not be used over bleached or oxidized surfaces. The catalyst may react with the chemicals from the bleaching and/or chemical staining process, causing later long term issues.

Third, I wouldn't assume that all matte finishes will show fingerprints like black stools. Black is unforgiving. The vertical surfaces of cabinet doors in a much lighter and more variegated color should be more forgiving. I would test before deciding on satin, because a matte finish gives you much less of the "wetting" and darkening effect. Matte finishes are matte because of microscopic roughness on the surface. This is usually achieved though flatteners added to the finish, which are transparent particles of silica. It can also be achieved by rubbing out the finish, after it cures, with the right level of abrasive. This is an extra step of work, but I always do it because hand-rubbed finishes just have a more beautiful look and hand-feel. A thin, matte finish on oak could look almost unfinished, which is what I'm going for.

Jdesign - those are beautiful finishes!

Andersons - a moderator from the forum below wrote:
"Wiping varnish is super easy to use on turnings. But do yourself a favor and get something that doesn't contain polyurethane. An alkyd or phenolic varnish has a lot more clarity than poly...which was developed for and best for floors. Minwax Antique Oil Finish (an alkyd resin varnish) and Waterlox (a phenolic resin varnish) are examples of pre-packaged wiping varnishes. Or mix your own with any oil-based varnish cut 50% with mineral spirits. Pratt and Lambert #38 is a very nice one if you can get it locally. "

Thank you for the information about rubbing the surface to mattify it. I wasn't aware of that technique.

Here is a link that might be useful: Sawmill Creek forum thread

Here's an experiment on red oak. Not photographed very well - not as pink as shown. Bleaching twice (two part peroxide wood bleach) dramatically removed the pink and lightened the wood. The ferrous sulphate stain over the twice-bleaced oak was a fail though. Got a weird brown stain rather than the craved floaty light grey. But nice bringing out of the grain. It seems like the colour I love with ferrous sulphate is mostly happening on maple.

This post was edited by feisty68 on Wed, Oct 29, 14 at 12:07

OK, I think I might be getting warm.

Photo below (left and right are different lighting conditions):

upper: River White granite

lower:
1. red oak
2. bleached twice with Lite-N-Up by Wood Kote
3. stained with Rubio Precolor Easy (a waterbased product that is the consistency of thick latex paint): mixed 3 parts Mint White with 1 part Urban Grey, brushed on and wiped off then allowed to dry
4. finished with Varathane Diamond Wood Finish Waterbased Interior

If I can get an experimental stain right, that's a solid basis for getting a custom stain mixed.

Here is a link that might be useful: Rubio Precolor Easy

Here's the same experiment again, with my inspiration photo.

Similar process, different undertones - more blue-green on the left, more purple on the right.

upper: River White granite

lower:
1. red oak
2. bleached twice with Lite-N-Up by Wood Kote
3.
LEFT SIDE:
Minwax water-based wood stain
12 parts Driftwood 1 part Onyx
RIGHT SIDE:
stained with Rubio Precolor Easy (a waterbased product that is the consistency of thick latex paint): mixed 3 parts Mint White with 1 part Urban Grey, brushed on and wiped off then allowed to dry
4. finished with Varathane Diamond Wood Finish Waterbased Interior

Maple chemically stained with ferrous sulphate solution and allowed to dry. Topcoat is Rubio Monocoat Oil in Stone. Shown with River White granite counter.

Two steps. Easy DIY.

This post was edited by feisty68 on Wed, Oct 29, 14 at 18:25

comparison:

another view.

Maple chemically stained with ferrous sulphate solution and allowed to dry. Topcoat is Rubio Monocoat Oil in Stone. Shown with River White granite counter.

I think I might love this. edited to add: I'm calling it "Unicorn Grey".

This post was edited by feisty68 on Fri, Oct 31, 14 at 0:26

Love the maple, although I have to say that you'll need to decide on what's going on IRL. My monitor throws off the colors, I'm pretty sure.

The maple color looks nice. Different effect than picture you originally posted but goes well with the stone. Re: original picture I've only ever used white oak to achieve that look. That weathered grey is just about the hardest color to pull off. Your top coat will wash it right out if it's not right. Needs to be a combination of chemicals and a lime wash. You can get the look other ways with dyes, stains and glazes but it's not the same. Here's a piece in a shelf unit I built.

Awesome piece jdesign!

I think why the maple works for me is that it really complements the granite. The undertones really harmonize and overall look is soft and natural looking rather than busy and "faux". I appreciate the feedback jdesign and nosoccermom :)

I think the maple looks great!

2 thumbs up for the maple - goes great with the River White and easier process.

Swtceleb and bbtrix - I'm glad you like it! I suffered for "Unicorn Grey" ;)

If you're happy with the way the maple is going then you should go that way. The thing I would think about is how it will read from a distance. Meaning the grain pattern. I only say this because you commented on not wanting to use white oak because you like the stronger grain in red oak. I only ever use white oak actually Euro white oak mostly because of the higher tannin content. White oak has the same grain pattern as red it's the cut of the wood that determines it. Maybe you're referring to rifted or quarter cut but plain sliced or even better French cut is going to have very distinct graining. You are right to steer toward the flooring finishes although Rubio would't be my first choice you can probably get something nice with that wether you go with the maple or the oak. The wood in the picture is French cut which is typically a mix of straight rifted grain on the outsides and the cathedrals of plain sliced toward the center.

Jdesign - good points, but white oak is $20/sf unfinished for cabinet fronts - that's not realistic for my budget ;) .

I tweaked Unicorn Grey a bit. It will be a bit lighter and more blue than the version shown on Oct 29. This is to allow a bit of darkening and yellowing as the finish ages which will shift the colour a bit more towards green and "duller".

I am really pleased with the 5% White Rubio Monocoat - it just faintly lightens the wood - great if you don't want any wetting or ambering effect as has been discussed in this thread (see below). But it doesn't stray into a "pickled" look.

I am in mid-finish! Updating in my thread below:

Here is a link that might be useful: take a peek at my

This is one of the most beautiful, understated kitchens; ever.

Heart achingly gorgeous & simple.

Without reading thru the comments I wanted to give my thoughts as a decorative finish artist for anyone who finds this thread (I apologize if someones already mentioned these things)..

The OP has a great eye! She knew the green undertone would be required to offset her countertops (vs a cooler blue tone). This is very important on large scale installs (like cabinets) & her requested finish IS possible. Wood can be finished to almost any color/type finish with the right products and/or combination of such.

Wood toner can be used as the base coat to set the tone & a grey pigmented stain or lacquer applied over top. Its similar to the way color correction is done with makeup; the correction color is applyed before concealer or foundation and virtually disappears but the undertone works to cancel problem areas...same principal applies here!

The type of wood used is just as important as the undertone. Every wood has natural coloring that develops over time w/ exposure to air & UV rays. If popular or ash is used the green tone will become stronger as the cabinets age and darken, which isn’t necessarily a bad thing..depends on personal taste’s.

If your cabinet maker doesn’t have a speciality finisher in house you can contract finishing to someone who works in the fine woodworking, finish carpentry, or decorativing painting industry. Basically- anyone who knows color theory AND various wood qualities.